@DragonParadox Pretty sure the Urge should've triggered last update.
Fixed, thanks for there reminder.
@DragonParadox Pretty sure the Urge should've triggered last update.
Why ask for 24 hours instead of plans in general? That way we could get any former plans before this incident.If the members of the conspiracy cannot sense their magic being found: What are their plans for the next 24 hours?
On the second part - this depends. Not all subversive magic is the same - notably, only Tina's was triggered. Further, we don't know if it was real time scrying, or a sort of recording, to be collected from her mind later. In their place, I would have done the latter - it should be harder to detect, and more convenient to use (you are not forced to do the scrying while in the middle of a senior council meeting, for example).Why ask for 24 hours instead of plans in general? That way we could get any former plans before this incident.
Edit: Also if they can look through the eyes of any of those infected kids and Carlos won't they know what we're doing just by looking unless we knock them all out?
That's true but we have no particular reason to believe it wasn't live and they only would've used one to observe Molly because that's all they'd need to see her combat abilities and there'd be less risk of detection so it makes more sense as a restraint rather than a lack of capability action.On the second part - this depends. Not all subversive magic is the same - notably, only Tina's was triggered. Further, we don't know if it was real time scrying, or a sort of recording, to be collected from her mind later. In their place, I would have done the latter - it should be harder to detect, and more convenient to use (you are not forced to do the scrying while in the middle of a senior council meeting, for example).
On the first part - the better we define the question, the more detail we get, I think? Plans beyond the immediate ones are not tactically useful, and we are very much in the tactical, not strategic situation right now.
On "live vs. recorded", and why I think "recorded" might actually be more plausible:That's true but we have no particular reason to believe it wasn't live and they only would've used one to observe Molly because that's all they'd need to see her combat abilities and there'd be less risk of detection so it makes more sense as a restraint rather than a lack of capability action.
If I realized I was caught I would deploy some of my centuries long plans instead of waiting for the most opportune moment as Usum describes his belief for their restraint, he rolled pretty high for that deduction too. If we asked for plans in general we would know what those plans are.
How do we know this? I mean couldn't they have been watching until that point and we only just noticed?The enchantment was triggered by the situation - there definitely was no active communication before it was triggered.
You used the word contingencies which made me think "If we are caught how do we fix the problem before we get outed entirely" moreso than "If we're outed what do we do?".Basically, I want to know what triggers when subversive enchantment is discovered, and tailor the second question based on the data from the first.
Here:How do we know this? I mean couldn't they have been watching until that point and we only just noticed?
That's when you see it out of the corner of your eye, a dark glean in Tina Trailman's eye that isn't her, isn't any magic of hers. Nemesis! The inner warning screams at you at once, but no, that thing would not stand revealed to mundane sight, no matter how your senses may sing in the cold air. Something, someone else is looking through the kid to see how you fight, someone who hadn't been there before. Triggered by the armor, triggered by the sound of the armor... someone who at least got a report of how fight.
I am open to updating the wording, of course. What do you think would make the intent clearer?You used the word contingencies which made me think "If we are caught how do we fix the problem before we get outed entirely" moreso than "If we're outed what do we do?".
That works too.Rather than live recording, to be retrieved at a later date, or transmitting in some manner, she could be possessed by a minor spirit of some sort, one with no control or influence over its host body. If it's just along for the ride, hunkered down and hidden well, that's probably less likely to be detected or interfered with by the host's natural mental defenses than real mind fuckery.
No need to implant a trigger when you can just give the spirit basic commands, and the possession would probably be quicker and more reliable than trying to do non-destructive mental tampering on short notice, at least if you don't want to risk a noticeable deviation in personality or behavior because of it.
Luccio is his boss. I have doubts about him considering HER to be a security threat, any more than he'd consider the Merlin a leak. Molly doesnt know she's a potential leak as of this update.I added "warn him of the need to maintain secrecy". Morgan understands operational security. I can agree with removing him, I think. I am not too attached to that part of the plan.
My point is that its not the kind of security measure that a conspiracy of wizards would default to.The point is that it's hard, we'd be asserting that it was a security measure against being found out by wizards.
Some amount of laundering would be helpful to hiding the crown and keeping it be focus on fighting the traitors instead of trying to verify our information.
1) Harry thinks they are neuroses. That doesnt mean he's accurate.In order all three of those quotes referred to taking advantage of neuroses Within beings of the never-never they have literally nothing to do with power everything you showed me just now could just be done by anyone who knew about that that's an Occult score above three. Having nothing to do with will or power never mind being a wizard.
You're very blatantly making up restrictions for the time machine again which I don't particularly care about but it is very obviously a lie short Jumps Through Time really when it just says a full-on time machine really you're going to just minimize and say it only makes short jumps Through Time when the rules don't say that instead of just saying honestly it requires repair after you use it but what can I expect from you I guess. Never mind the fact that if Dresden tried to travel back in time any significant distance he would almost certainly need to craft a ritual to do it because rituals just like in Mage exist in Dresden Files to enhance the capabilities of wizards so they can actually do what you're saying almost like an aide so they are capable of doing what you were saying they are only capable of short jumps through time without rituals that require large trades of time to both design and activate but whatever.
And that's just wrong in exalted Solars Abyssal and infernals are capable of learning SMA all the way to the max you need to undertake some foul dealings with the Yozi to do it but so could lunars and dragon-blooded. Never mind the fact that I was literally agreeing with you and said it would have been better to pick something like the thousand and first hell or any of the actual sidereal charms as those are inherent and cannot be learned by making a bargain or training. Then again anything that might be against your point needs to be discounted or just ignored I guess.
This is what I mean you make claims that very explicitly create limitations where there were none or ignore the actual realities of Dresden Files or just construe them however you want them and it makes it literally impossible to believe you when you say that opponents are Juiced out of their minds or can just do whatever because you never have an unbiased reading of fucking rules never mind an actual source.
No, it isn't. Let me quote, again:
See the bolded and underlined part? Exalts are perfectly capable of making a backwards traveling time machine. Without magic even, because gadgets are super-science.Making a Gadget
Creating a Gadget proceeds in several steps, detailed below.
Having the Capability: First, can the inventor do this in the first place? The Exalt must possess
an appropriate Charm, such as Cutting-Edge Solution, in order to be able to make a Gadget at all.
Solars, Infernals, and Alchemicals possess such Charms. Describing the Gadget: Describe what the Gadget is supposed to be and do. Determine whether
it's a valid Gadget, and whether the Gadget is a Trinket, Invention, or Apparatus.
If making an Apparatus, this is the stage at which its impact is set. Impact dictates how much the
presence of the Apparatus is probably going to change the story to being about the Apparatus,
and is rated from 0-3. The greater the projected impact, the lower the rating. Thus, an Apparatus
that probably won't have any more impact than a low-level Charm purchase would be Impact 3,
while something that lets you bring the dead back to life or travel back in time would be Impact
0. Lower Impact makes an Apparatus more prone to breaking down after being used, prevents it
from being used as often without stopping to perform maintenance, and generally means it has
less opportunity to be present in the story.
World-redefining inventions spend most of their time in the shop being maintained or repaired
rather than used. That's the nature of these things.
Apparatus: An Apparatus is a Gadget designed to do something not really possible with
conventional technology, or at least not conventionally available technology, or which functions
much better than existing technology; jetpacks currently exist, but they're extremely limited and
suck in many ways. Gadget jetpacks don't suck. An Apparatus can be anything from a plasma
cannon to a hypnotic jukebox to an actual no-shit time machine. As a general rule of thumb, the
more story-defining an Apparatus's function is, the harder it is to keep it running all the time. A
plasma cannon, which is just a really nice weapon, is fairly reliable. You can expect your time
machine to basically catch fire and need to be rebuilt after every use.
Thanks. I should've reread it.
Free Will is annoying. Maybe something like, "What plans may the traitors deploy if their traitorous activity is discovered?". Traitorous activity would include their mental tampering and if their actions get outed entirely. Plans would mean any long standing protocols and the like for being discovered but not if their undercover mission is declared FUBAR yet and if it happens on a larger scale and they figure they may as well get what they can before pulling out.I am open to updating the wording, of course. What do you think would make the intent clearer?
The specific example in the book was a 3-dot Prodigy with a temporal range of less than 24 hours, that moves forward.No, it isn't. Let me quote, again:
See the bolded and underlined part? Exalts are perfectly capable of making a backwards traveling time machine. Without magic even, because gadgets are super-science.
EDIT:
And let me give you more quotes:
You said your going to reread so you probably noticed but just to make sure we do know of her in character.Luccio is his boss. I have doubts about him considering HER to be a security threat, any more than he'd consider the Merlin a leak. Molly doesnt know she's a potential leak as of this update.
You are ignoring the direct text of the quotes I gave. Exalts are specifically capable of making time machines that travel backwards through time, and they don't even need magic for that. Ot naturally follows that whatever can be done with super science can also be done with magic, bit this part is an extension of the direct text I quoted. Which mentions backwards time travel. Which you specifically insisted exalts couldn't do. They can. It's in the design document.The specific example in the book was a 3-dot Prodigy with a temporal range of less than 24 hours, that moves forward.
That was a direct quote, and provided a hard benchmark.
Now if you want to argue that a 4- or 5-dot will allow you to travel backwards in time?
For years, even centuries? Thats between you and the QM.
But there is no benchmark for that.
We literally did we have something that can make it really easy to soak in most poisons but we just didn't craft any this time because the leading plan only crafted two potions instead of making the marbles that would make us extremely poison resistant hell same thing for the magic cleaner and every other type of potion we could have possibly made.Would've been good to invest in anti-poison abilities last turn.
@Yog are you planning to add asking about the traitor's plan(s) to your vote?
Contingencies should include plans, should they not? And also include automatic responses, like magical triggers?Free Will is annoying. Maybe something like, "What plans may the traitors deploy if their traitorous activity is discovered?". Traitorous activity would include their mental tampering and if their actions get outed entirely. Plans would mean any long standing protocols and the like for being discovered but not if their undercover mission is declared FUBAR yet and if it happens on a larger scale and they figure they may as well get what they can before pulling out.
"Subversive enchantments" specifically refers to their mental tampering being discovered rather than them being outed entirely which may have a different response. So this is the source of my concern on the wording-Contingencies should include plans, should they not? And also include automatic responses, like magical triggers?
In my mind they might've had their mental enchantments caught before on a smaller scale then dealt with the issue or concealed their involvement or worked to not be seen as the cause which would count as "contingencies for if the subversion is discovered" rather than plans to react if outed. Remember the Grey Council is a thing and the list of traitors was smaller than last time.
I'm aware. Do we have those antivenom-potions now? Are we planning to stop and craft some or an alternative? Point still stands, it would've been helpful to make people immune entirely for a set peroid so they wouldn't have to take an action to drink a potion or something and that's assuming we make some or made some in the background.We literally did we have something that can make it really easy to soak in most poisons but we just didn't craft any this time because the leading plan only crafted two potions instead of making
Algean marbles aren't potions they're magic rocks that give that bonus permanently I do agree that just crafting it is not really helpful in the moment but we did explicitly make a choice not to have them on hand. We could have made them at any time they don't go bad they're rocks. No one has to drink anything.I'm aware. Do we have those antivenom-potions now? Are we planning to stop and craft some or an alternative? Point still stands, it would've been helpful to make people immune entirely for a set peroid so they wouldn't have to take an action to drink a potion or something and that's assuming we make some or made some in the background.
I don't like using 'we can just craft that' as a response either. A lot of times we don't.
My thought wasn't that the black council was using it, but rather that we'd frame it as a traitor looking for leverage over other traitors. Hence the security; our hypothetical target would be profiling co conspirators to find weak points to exploit for internal political gain. If you're hiding things from two different groups of wizards a computer starts to look a lot better as a storage medium.My point is that its not the kind of security measure that a conspiracy of wizards would default to.
I was referring to the antivenom we brought for the first plane assault. I'm not sure why your pointing out that we could've made them. We don't have them right now and unless it gets added to a vote we won't.Algean marbles aren't potions they're magic rocks that give that bonus permanently I do agree that just crafting it is not really helpful in the moment but we did explicitly make a choice not to have them on hand. We could have made them at any time they don't go bad they're rocks. No one has to drink anything.
What Anti-Venom are you talking about the closest we would have had it that point is just health potions.I was referring to the antivenom we brought for the first plane assault. I'm not sure why your pointing out that we could've made them. We don't have them right now and unless it gets added to a vote we won't.
The antivenom we brought for the first plane assault against Arianna. Looking back we didn't actually craft it Harry had made it for us.What Anti-Venom are you talking about the closest we would have had it that point is just health potions.
We have some left actually.
Molly's anima power works if she's being observed by someone, I don't think a recording spell would actually set that off. Molly even referred to it as the viewer getting a report on how we fight and not attempting to get one.On the second part - this depends. Not all subversive magic is the same - notably, only Tina's was triggered. Further, we don't know if it was real time scrying, or a sort of recording, to be collected from her mind later. In their place, I would have done the latter - it should be harder to detect, and more convenient to use (you are not forced to do the scrying while in the middle of a senior council meeting, for example).
On the first part - the better we define the question, the more detail we get, I think? Plans beyond the immediate ones are not tactically useful, and we are very much in the tactical, not strategic situation right now.
COMMENTARY
You're mistaken. The WoJ was one for every million people:The number I found for every wizard alive was 800 based off a WoJ that implied one wizard talent is born for every 10 million poeple. Call it 600 for the council since they don't get everyone... Actually no, that is too low for a world wide organization. Call it 2000 total wizards, 1200 council wizards of which 50 are traitors and around 80 are subverted
I dont think thats accurate.We were also told that the hypnotism thing was as what he was doing in canon when the whole scheme came out. If he could watch behind people's eyes he wouldn't have needed to risk isolating Wardens the way he did and it would hav been mentioned as the reveal of the plot.
Can I get a citation for this?Another thing from canon; once wizards knew what was up they could start fighting it more actively and it was taken as a given they would win if left uninterrupted.
We might be able to take Carlos aside and tell him he needs to give himself a once over.