Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Snap pictures of every page so you can study it later, leave the book here

Book's been here for years. No need to do anything high-vis or that commits us to anything (like having to return the book). Snap pics. Ask Harry. If it's dangerous come back and steal it. Simple as.
Hell, we can just tell Murphy to grab it the next time she's visiting her mom.

Alas you are no you cannot
Some kind of issue here.
 
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[X] Snap pictures of every page so you can study it later, leave the book here
 
[X] Try to get them to give you the book, that is not safe just laying around here
-[X] You would like to get these into a proper lab. Do some testing of ink and paper, show it to your colleagues who are better at cyphers.
-[X] You'll make high-resoultion scans using specialized equipment in the lab - you just don't have equipment on site.
-[X] You'll get them the book back in several weeks.
 
During rereads one thing I have noticed is that the thread isn't the best at follow up for anything that isn't immediately critical or brought back into the eye of the reader. If the book isn't taken now it's likely going to be forgotten about as we have more important things.

Edit: This is probably a consequence of the way plan voting is handled. If someone puts "retrieve the book" on their monthly plan vote it's likely to have people doubting its relevancy compared to other plans that would use that AP for something else. If we don't bother with it now are we actually going to circle back?
 
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@DragonParadox Errors.
"This Embermane, a mountain of fire called up to burn the city is just lying there like a still loaded gun some son of a bitch dropped on the floor."
I believe there should be a comma after city.
Father you're here because I came to your first
but if it's something we can brush away than it's brushing we will do
This should definitely be "then".
as the car pulls up to large and well kept house
Missing "a" after to.
 
If we want to make sure that we get what's written in the book, we genuinely need to put it in a lab. Dresden's lab, with Bob there. Because we don't have equipment to make a good copy here, and stuff like alchemically invisible ink should be possible.

And we need to check that the book isn't dangerous.
 
If we want to make sure that we get what's written in the book, we genuinely need to put it in a lab. Dresden's lab, with Bob there. Because we don't have equipment to make a good copy here, and stuff like alchemically invisible ink should be possible.
Yep. Do a proper investigation.

Also doesn't the Archive go out of her way to have the journals of dead Wizards retrieved because they can be dangerous? I don't think we should be returning it at all, though he has been dead for a minute probably wasn't a warlock and the book's still here so it may be fine being returned. Still want Dresden to look over it.


[X] Try to get them to give you the book, that is not safe just laying around here
-[X] You would like to get these into a proper lab. Do some testing of ink and paper, show it to your colleagues who are better at cyphers.
-[X] You'll make high-resoultion scans using specialized equipment in the lab - you just don't have equipment on site.
-[X] You'll get them the book back in several weeks.
 
Yep. Do a proper investigation.

Also doesn't the Archive go out of her way to have the journals of dead Wizards retrieved because they can be dangerous? I don't think we should be returning it at all, though he has been dead for a minute probably wasn't a warlock and the book's still here so it may be fine being returned. Still want Dresden to look over it.
If we can get Murphy to agree, we should return a forgery filled with gibberish, yes, and either properly dispose of, or properly secure potentially dangerous arcane tome. In fact, if we come up with nothing better, using the current scene to find magical books currently held by unsuspecting mortals would be a good one. We could send one of the clones, or some of our minions to retrieve them later.
 
[X] Try to get them to give you the book, that is not safe just laying around here
-[X] You would like to get these into a proper lab. Do some testing of ink and paper, show it to your colleagues who are better at cyphers.
-[X] You'll make high-resoultion scans using specialized equipment in the lab - you just don't have equipment on site.
-[X] You'll get them the book back in several weeks.


Uh yeah this is a decades old paper journal. I doubt it's been kept in archival recommended conditions. Even without the magic stuff a PhD student would want to make sure an amazing primary source gets preserved ASAP.
 
VOTE
[X] Snap pictures of every page so you can study it later, leave the book here




RATIONALE
1) There is no confirmation that this is stuff that is too dangerous to leave around.
The original writer himself committed it to paper, so he obviously didnt think so; get pictures, look over it, ask Harry/Lash to look over it, and then decide if its worth asking them to hand it over.


2) Which brings me to point 2: We voted to lie about our identity.
If we ask to take it away, we have no references. No school ID, no program references from our professor on the PhD program. And this is a family with multiple cops local and federal, and thus multiple ways to look into our background.

Its different if we had come in our real identiy as a kid across town.

An out of towner from another state with no bona fides asking for a family heirloom is simply not particularly credible.
We could try to get it because Exalted bullshit, but it puts everyone else on the hook when it vanishes.
And I simply dont think Father Forthill would cover for us that way anyway.

So Molly would have to unmask. To muggles. Because she chose to make an unnecessary lie in the first place.
Which brings us back to the original lesson: Never lie if you have any other alternative.
Better to omit information than to actually make it up.
 
1) There is no confirmation that this is stuff that is too dangerous to leave around.
The original writer himself committed it to paper, so he obviously didnt think so; get pictures, look over it, ask Harry/Lash to look over it, and then decide if its worth asking them to hand it over.


2) Which brings me to point 2: We voted to lie about our identity.
If we ask to take it away, we have no references. No school ID, no program references from our professor on the PhD program. And this is a family with multiple cops local and federal, and thus multiple ways to look into our background.

Its different if we had come in our real identiy as a kid across town.

An out of towner from another state with no bona fides asking for a family heirloom is simply not particularly credible.
We could try to get it because Exalted bullshit, but it puts everyone else on the hook when it vanishes.
And I simply dont think Father Forthill would cover for us that way anyway.

So Molly would have to unmask. To muggles. Because she chose to make an unnecessary lie in the first place.
Which brings us back to the original lesson: Never lie if you have any other alternative.
Better to omit information than to actually make it up.
1) It is strange to hear from you the position of "we don't have proof it's dangerous, therefore we should treat it as safe". This was written by a magic user in at least some sort of code. This is sensitive information. It wouldn't surprise me if there was stuff like demon summoning was in there, or at least stuff related to demons - as a magic using priest, Father Murphy would likely have dealt with real exorcisms in his life. Even if there's not demonic or fae lore in there (ie you can't use it to summon something), and there are no sensitive secrets, like location and nature of Demonreach, this should be checked first.

2) This is hilariously wrong. Write them a note. We can have the identity set up well before they can check it. Our abilities to forge an identity outpace their abilities to check it. We can say that Lieutenant Murphy is going to be checking that we aren't absconding with the books. It's not a problem.

What would they be asking for, anyway? At worst, if they ask for ID, we say "sorry, don't have it on me, can I come back in the evening? I'll have all the credentials with me then.", and come back in the evening with foolproof identity.
 
[X] Snap pictures of every page so you can study it later, leave the book here

At most, suggest to Karin she convince her parents to let her have it.
 
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1) It is strange to hear from you the position of "we don't have proof it's dangerous, therefore we should treat it as safe". This was written by a magic user in at least some sort of code. This is sensitive information. It wouldn't surprise me if there was stuff like demon summoning was in there, or at least stuff related to demons - as a magic using priest, Father Murphy would likely have dealt with real exorcisms in his life. Even if there's not demonic or fae lore in there (ie you can't use it to summon something), and there are no sensitive secrets, like location and nature of Demonreach, this should be checked first.

2) This is hilariously wrong. Write them a note. We can have the identity set up well before they can check it. Our abilities to forge an identity outpace their abilities to check it. We can say that Lieutenant Murphy is going to be checking that we aren't absconding with the books. It's not a problem.

What would they be asking for, anyway? At worst, if they ask for ID, we say "sorry, don't have it on me, can I come back in the evening? I'll have all the credentials with me then.", and come back in the evening with foolproof identity.
1) Someone as young as Harry Dresden had designated successors for his stuff in the event of his death.

If the late Father thought it was necessary to put down shit to writing, he's demonstrably competent enough to have asked someone to pick up or dispose of his journal and any other stuff if he thought it was critically important.
Or written a will. He had local family who would carry out instructions, as well as people in the clergy.

So my inclination is to assume that there is nothing critical there right now. Until we check.

If they knew who we were, or were sufficiently in the know, Molly Carpenter, Chicago local and daughter of Michael Carpenter might ask them to hand it over for a couple days.
Just as a precaution.

But Maggie Smith, out of state PhD student from St Louis, MO, has no standing to ask any such thing.
And doing so would attract the sort of scrutiny we cant afford for a paper-thin cover identity.



2) Go home and actually commit state and federal crimes of forgery and identity theft while dealing with cops.
This is a police family. Mama Murphy's husband made it to Captain in the CPD before his "suicide".
There are multiple cops here right now, as well as an FBI agent.

If Rick Broughton or Sam Murphy calls up the St Louis FBI Office or St Louis Police Dept and asks a friend to have an agent to drop by and talk to the professor we claim to be doing our PhD under, then what?
This isnt the 19th century any longer.

You are stumbling into the classic "old woman who swallowed a fly, and then swallowed a spider to catch the fly etc" doom spiral with telling lies.
Thats why smart people generally make as few hard statements when deceiving people as possible.



I will reiterate: Molly could have walked in here with her own face and been good. She had committed no crimes, just doing research. We voted to complicate this entire encounter with cover identities and false faces and obvious magic where they werent necessary.

And now you are suggesting we commit actual interstate federal crimes of impersonation and identity theft.
In front of multiple police witnesses, a police widow, and a priest.

Everything you are suggesting now are putting Molly, and both Father Forthill and Murphy herself, in legal jeopardy.
Karrin Murphy is a COP.
Dont just assume that her ethics are infinitely flexible. HARRY doesnt do that, and they have more history than we do.
 
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If the late Father thought it was necessary to put down shit to writing, he's demonstrably competent enough to have asked someone to pick up or dispose of his journal and any other stuff if he thought it was critically important.
Or written a will. He had local family who would carry out instructions, as well as people in the clergy.

Unless, you know, he was killed by denarians and didn't have time to put his plans in place.

If the Denarians didn't sabotage it.

This kind of thing is fail deadly, you don't want it to lie around.

Also:

Molly wondered if Rich was a member of daedalus, now, this isn't certain... but he did just admit to be trying to decipher the thing in front of us.

What if he succeed? You really want a guy like that running around with some completely unknown spells?

Are you sure, you that constantly tend to go at great length about how we should be more careful, that you want to take this risk?

Better do this now, rather than wait when we have signs that it isn't going to stay untouched.

[X] Try to get them to give you the book, that is not safe just laying around here
-[X] You would like to get these into a proper lab. Do some testing of ink and paper, show it to your colleagues who are better at cyphers.
-[X] You'll make high-resoultion scans using specialized equipment in the lab - you just don't have equipment on site.
-[X] You'll get them the book back in several weeks.

Edit:

Like, I want to reiterate because this is important:

We just had someone tell us he was trying to decipher the thing, thinking *it can wait a little* only works when you have reason to think nothing is happening soon.

This is a sign that something is likely to happen soon if left alone.
 
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Unless, you know, he was killed by denarians and didn't have time to put his plans in place.

If the Denarians didn't sabotage it.

This kind of thing is fail deadly, you don't want it to lie around.

Also:

Molly wondered if Rich was a member of daedalus, now, this isn't certain... but he did just admit to be trying to decipher the thing in front of us.

What if he succeed? You really want a guy like that running around with some completely unknown spells?

Are you sure, you that constantly tend to go at great length about how we should be more careful, that you want to take this risk?

Better do this now, rather than wait when we have signs that it isn't going to stay untouched.

[X] Try to get them to give you the book, that is not safe just laying around here
-[X] You would like to get these into a proper lab. Do some testing of ink and paper, show it to your colleagues who are better at cyphers.
-[X] You'll make high-resoultion scans using specialized equipment in the lab - you just don't have equipment on site.
-[X] You'll get them the book back in several weeks.

Edit:

Like, I want to reiterate because this is important:

We just had someone tell us he was trying to decipher the thing, thinking *it can wait a little* only works when you have reason to think nothing is happening soon.

This is a sign that something is likely to happen soon if left alone.
1)Literally right there in the update:
Rather than go straight for the journal you look through the handful of letters, most of it is very mundane, the kind of thing you'd write about to catch family up on your life in another state, but once 1869 rolls around they start to have an air of solemnity to them, at once heavier and lighter... a man settling accounts, you recognize, a chill running down your spine.
He had more than a year of warning to settle his accounts.
And he had both family in the city and friends in the clergy to execute his will post-mortem.
If he left this around his family without any notes about its disposition, good odds there isnt anything dangerous in it.

Do our due diligence, sure, but this isnt a panic situation.


2) Yes? What does it reveal to a muggle besides that great-great-grand-uncle Murphy had an interest in the supernatural, which wasnt out of the ordinary for people of the 19th century, let alone a Catholic priest?
The Church still sanctions exorcisms in the modern day, you know.

I will remind you that the person who found the Word of Kemmler and tried to sell it on was a mortal.
In his hands, it was harmless. Der Liebe du Erlking Die Lied der Erlking, which was used to summon the Erlking, was literally on a shelf in Bock's Books. In the hands of the bookseller it was also harmless.

This isnt Harry Potter; books dont possess you if you read them.
And spells dont auto-activate unless they are specifically set up to do so.


EDIT
Dont get me wrong, a little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands.
But it has to be the right knowledge in the wrong hands.
There is currently no evidence of either in this case.
 
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I will remind you that the person who found the Word of Kemmler and tried to sell it on was a mortal.
In his hands, it was harmless.
Doesn't that go against your point? It wasn't dangerous in their hands but rather than say burn it in their ignorance they tried to sell it. Possibly to someone dangerous.
 
For what it's worth the spells do not seem like the kind of thing you could cast without both being able to decode them and having a decent talent. Say Billy from the Alphas (a middling minor talent) might be able to do it if he happened to resonate with one but otherwise we are talking full on sorcerer. The problem is more... you just poked this thing so they might take it to someone else and then it will be out there in the wild, someone might notice and react to the fact that this journal is out in public.

Anyway good night guys, it's getting close to midnight for me. Will talk more about this in the morning.
 
1) Someone as young as Harry Dresden had designated successors for his stuff in the event of his death.

If the late Father thought it was necessary to put down shit to writing, he's demonstrably competent enough to have asked someone to pick up or dispose of his journal and any other stuff if he thought it was critically important.
Or written a will. He had local family who would carry out instructions, as well as people in the clergy.

So my inclination is to assume that there is nothing critical there right now. Until we check.

If they knew who we were, or were sufficiently in the know, Molly Carpenter, Chicago local and daughter of Michael Carpenter might ask them to hand it over for a couple days.
Just as a precaution.

But Maggie Smith, out of state PhD student from St Louis, MO, has no standing to ask any such thing.
And doing so would attract the sort of scrutiny we cant afford for a paper-thin cover identity.
"One person, trained by White Council's black ops assassin, last in the line of Merlin's apprentices, is passably competent about informational security in the event of his death" does not translate to "all magic users, path sorcerers and full wizards alike are competent about information security".

I disagree about standing. I personally would not think it strange if a PhD student of history asked to get the historical document I have for a couple of days to scan with specialized equipment. I would want some insurance it'll get returned, but the situation itself would not be strange.
 
[X] Try to get them to give you the book, that is not safe just laying around here
-[X] You would like to get these into a proper lab. Do some testing of ink and paper, show it to your colleagues who are better at cyphers.
-[X] You'll make high-resoultion scans using specialized equipment in the lab - you just don't have equipment on site.
-[X] You'll get them the book back in several weeks.
 
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