Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

This is kind of becoming an ongoing problem I have with this quest: why are you portraying a language whose purpose is to be universally understandable into incomprehensible gibberish? Why not make it plainspoken and easily understood by the readers too?

Because it is not meant to be understandable to humans, it is a language that describes things very well, perfectly even from the perspective of alien intelligences that the size of worlds whose major organs can have conversations with each other.

That said I'll do my best to dial it down, I don't want to frustrate the reader, just convey that sense of the alien.
 
This is kind of becoming an ongoing problem I have with this quest: why are you portraying a language whose purpose is to be universally understandable into incomprehensible gibberish? Why not make it plainspoken and easily understood by the readers too?
What's being said there is understandable but like most things if you don't have the context it doesn't really make sense the most plain spoken explanation of a desalination process he's still going to sound like gibberish to someone who doesn't know the first thing about removing salt from water. Same for Fission, Fusion a large series of physics related things most engineering terms pretty much anything where you need to know something beforehand it doesn't matter how plain spoken it is.

While she does claim that she's exaggerating she is saying changes in the potters lay line which is the motonic/ particulate alteration that she is speaking of may result in actual changes on the inside of the place that these Spirits are staying
 
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Because automatic method is more efficient in many situations and doesn't have the same fail states like Lytek being killed? It does not require active involvement of Incarnae, which is a big bonus.
It's canon that the exalted died a lot and spent significant time in training once exalted. Any lead up to reduce that would be valuable. More than that, it cannot be a system answerable to anyone because the gods couldn't stop the primordials from subverting any system answerable to them. That is the reason mortals were required in the first place.

Even if you take the very stupid 3E lore there was nothing stopping the primordials from forcing their way into the holdings of any of the gods, killing scrub exalts all the while, and doing whatever they wanted to the unresisting divinities to get what they wanted out of them for a vast majority of the war.

For the lack of exalted v exalted combat to make sense two things must be true

1) The gods cannot have control of the system of exaltation in a material way after it has started operating.

2) The exaltations must be tamper resistant when not deactivated. Otherwise the primordials would not have waited till they were murdered or mutilated to do what they did.


Please provide citation. I wasn't able to find any text saying this, or even implying this. The gods cannot command exalted, that's the point. Nothing is said about not being able to select their chosen.
Not being able to command them but being able to choose them specifically is a loophole so large as to render the rule irrelevant.


After an Exalt dies, they are not exalted anymore, and no, it is not ridiculous, because it's still manipulating an exaltation's selection criteria
What's the difference between you encrypting your hard drive and someone trying to slip ransomware on it from the other side of the planet? They both do basically the same thing after all. The exalted doing things to themselves, or their exaltations, starts from a position of privileged access.

Which people? Maidens were in Rebellion. And who said they didn't?
Yes. Primordials perceive the universe through their themes.
They made the thing in the first place, the gods were a convenience not a necessity.

You can write whatever you want into the blanks but I think an infernal/Abyssal equivalent showing up during the primordial war, which is the natural result of what you're suggesting is the sort of thing that would show up on the lore and shouldn't be something we can treat as random background stuff.

The assumption here should be that very powerful and intelligent people spent nearly incalculable time and resources on this problem. Anything easier than the Great Curse itself to implement that lets you pick who gains fantastic cosmic power without getting one that's been locked in maintenance mode by special authorized tools should be assumed to have been attempted and failed.

Otherwise they would have just done that instead, and someone down the ages would have done the same.

By the time solar exaltations escaped their prisons, the state of Creation was bad enough that Sidereals couldn't reliably predict next Sidereal exaltations, simply due to overwork
It never came up in their deliberations though. The debate was basically to guide the solars as they were or kill them, not to try hardening the candidate pool or what have you.

1) Thats where I think you're wrong
Your example demonstrates the crippling issues with the Denarians as an organization.

Almost all of the "profit" he made was his own nominal group failing and what seems like clear cope on his part. I mean really? "Trust me bro, 'introducing' The Archive to our faction in a way that makes her hate some of my nominal coworkers more than others is a win ". Setting aside how Ivy is basically Sabrina the preteen Skynet and largely knows more about everyone else than they know about her, that puts all of them in at more risk of hostile attention for no other gain.

He also didn't get the sword, he got punched in the face. He's good at rolling with it when it happens but I wouldn't take Nicodemus at his word, especially when talking about his fucked up family or trying to put up a front of being unstoppable.
Thats why when Dresden asked Uriel why they let the Denarians cost them a warrior, Uriel laughed
Clearly being a knight still matters too or they wouldn't have them. Unless the thing with Shiro's health was arranged by heaven in the first place it was a loss of some kind. His post knight work may have been valuable, but this isn't exactly a grand victory.
What you are missing, because its not really expanded on in the primary books, is that the battle between Heaven and Hell is only marginally fought on the level of the Swords. And because of that, I think you are making fundamental errors with regards to threat-assessment regarding the Coins, and what their role is in the setting.
I'm aware, but it still matters. I also think you're being dismissive of the role of exalted in the fused setting and not presenting a solution. We're committed to this, which means we need to make it happen and get as much out of it as possible. There's a reason DP described our involvement here as Molly walking up to Uriel and Satan's Poker table to play Yahtzee with them. Exaltations give you enough leverage and weird reach to always have at least some sort of seat at the table.

So far all I've heard from you is that we should sit down and cry or something, because we can't ultimately effect this level of the game because we don't meet the power requirement.

Edit: Error
 
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I think we should go with this one first since it's an unknown and quite possibly more problematic than Embermane in some way. I kind of want to leave Embermane here as an environmental defensive measure/hazard of sorts but that seems kind of irresponsible.

[X] East onto the water, to find the frightful thing Unnamed
 
It's canon that the exalted died a lot and spent significant time in training once exalted. Any lead up to reduce that would be valuable. More than that, it cannot be a system answerable to anyone because the gods couldn't stop the primordials from subverting any system answerable to them. That is the reason mortals were required in the first place.

Even if you take the very stupid 3E lore there was nothing stopping the primordials from forcing their way into the holdings of any of the gods, killing scrub exalts all the while, and doing whatever they wanted to the unresisting divinities to get what they wanted out of them for a vast majority of the war.

For the lack of exalted v exalted combat to make sense two things must be true

1) The gods cannot have control of the system of exaltation in a material way after it has started operating.

2) The exaltations must be tamper resistant when not deactivated. Otherwise the primordials would not have waited till they were murdered or mutilated to do what they did.



Not being able to command them but being able to choose them specifically is a loophole so large as to render the rule irrelevant.



What's the difference between you encrypting your hard drive and someone trying to slip ransomware on it from the other side of the planet? They both do basically the same thing after all. The exalted doing things to themselves, or their exaltations, starts from a position of privileged access.
It is not canon they died a lot it's Canon that they died there were survivors from the beginning of the primordial War to the end. If they died a lot they wouldn't be in Dragon blooded if they died a lot they would be no training or artifacts there would be nothing but fucking dead remnants of humankind huddling in caves.

Secondly there is no 3E lore on the primordial War it's something I really dislike but it is just the truth. Unless you mean exigence which yet again none of the primordials would ever raise a prey species to the heights to match possible second or possible third circle deva no matter how much they could sacrifice Gods to do so which they couldn't because the fire exigent is not a thing that can just be given out it relies on Sol's might and the sacrifice of a god which considering even in second edition he had perfect defenses against doing things like sacrificing allies and other shit that is against his motivations wasn't a thing there either.

Third Humanity as a whole existed within the reins of the Dragon Kings a species that worships the unconquered Sun but there's only one tribe of us no matter how many numbers that tribe had we just existed with the dragon Kings. Which means every human no matter the status was on the shit end of the stick protected by the dragon Kings as far as the universal law goes. Why would they fight on the side of the primordials during the war they are promised the entirety of creation if they win and they get to destroy the creators that made them to live in fear.

It's heavily insinuated even a second edition exaltations are never truly deactivated the second the Jade Prison Breaks 140 is solar exaltations Escape, during the robbing of his cabinet they were catching them as they were trying to escape. Lytek's tools essentially scrape the soul crust off of the exaltation on its way out it's not really a methodology by which you can work changes on the exaltations.

Being able to choose them just means being able to choose them they can still just choose according to the motivations all seven of The Celestine have perfect defenses even if they only work for their motivations. The reason there's no exalt on exalt because the process of exaltation can both be automatic and chosen and there's plenty of evidence for both but there is no evidence that they cannot create exalted even when he turned his face in the world solars we're still being chosen. Once a god creates an exaltation Shard that's it it exists and it will select based on the criteria of the God either their nature or their motivations decide is a good candidate and they work or The God does it in the process the same either way.

Then there's the fact that even in Third Edition the process of exaltation is in the hands of two beings both of which owe no loyalty to the greater number of the Primordials, Autocthon and the Unconquered Sun none of which have the ability to compel them to actually give up the secret. In second edition the primordials were incapable of truly harming each other the sun was made Invincible due to the fact he's the largest collaboration project since the birth of creation.

There's no Exalted on Exalted combat because the only way to get that would be to break the setting entirely somehow compel the Unconquered Sun to give up on his own movement, fuck over his allies and somehow compel Auto to do the same. The Primordials would need to be able to see that this pray species is worth raising up which considering they made us in a mockery of Auto doubtful they would also need to make us free willed again which again doubtful. They would need to lose their pride and admit that a creation of Autocthon is greater than what they can do at its core to make more exalted is to acknowledge that a creation of the great maker using their free willed mockery is more than any demon or behemoth they could create. I don't think any of their egos could survive such a thing.

This is all before we get to the point that both the infernals and the abyssal were solar creations or rather the solars set the framework by which both of those things could exist Power From Darkness, Black Mirror Revelation and Primordial Principle Emulation are solar charms that the ghost of the solars were capable of taking further by yanking the power of dead primordials and the Fallen primordials were capable of just furthering neither of which is actually a creation of the primordials. Finally the only reason even those exist is because solar ghosts still have some level of transcendent skill by which they could capture exaltations and even then they didn't capture all of the ones that were in the Jade prison.
 

Some 3e bits to clarify because all the Incarnae know the secret of exaltation in 3e.

Oramus and Sachaverell figured out the secret of exaltation and created the Getimians during the Primordial War/Divine Revolution, but the combination of discovering the law of diminishment and the nature of their Creations freaked them out enough that the Getimian Exaltations were sealed away in Zen-Mu until Rakan Thulio came along. (Source: Crucible of Legend page 153-154).


Stuff from page 14 of Out of the Ashes:
The Exigence was a macguffin older than the Yozi's found during the primordial war by a group effort of the Incarnae because the Incarnae had no interest in sharing the secret of exaltation with all the gods. All the incarnae experienced diminishment in the process of creating their chosen. "Bound by an ancient geas, the gods could not themselves fight the ancients".

Autochthon taught the Incarnae the secret of Exalting people(Exalted Essence page 43).

Of course from a doylistic standpoint Exigence is pretty obviously a tool to enable homebrewers and Devil-tiger fans in spite of 3e infernals being more and less than 2e infernals. 3e get Devil Tigeresque features out of the box like inner worlds and goetic demons, personal shintais, the same lifespan as solars, access to Sidereal Martial arts with a tutor, Solar Circle Sorcery and 2nd circle Necromancy(I'm fuzzy on if they got that in 2e) but they don't use the literal charms of the yozis and can't primordialize.

From Vance in the Exalted Discord on 7-28-2022:
Getimians don't draw directly from Oramus or Sacheverell, but from an alchemical marriage of the two. If you read the Oramus write-up from Ink Monkeys, I think it'll show you some sources of inspiration from Oramus that wouldn't fit Getimians at all
 
I don't have a preference, so for now I'll just vote for all of them.

[X] North to the Empty Roost, the spirits dwelling there are described as being gripped by the sorrow than wrath, maybe there's something you can do to help or at least some agreement you can reach with them on borders in the Nevernever

[X] West to deal with Embermane, that sounds like it's going to have a straightforward if violent solution

[X] East onto the water, to find the frightful thing Unnamed

[X] South, carve a new path
 
Some 3e bits to clarify because all the Incarnae know the secret of exaltation in 3e.

Oramus and Sachaverell figured out the secret of exaltation and created the Getimians during the Primordial War/Divine Revolution, but the combination of discovering the law of diminishment and the nature of their Creations freaked them out enough that the Getimian Exaltations were sealed away in Zen-Mu until Rakan Thulio came along. (Source: Crucible of Legend page 153-154).


Stuff from page 14 of Out of the Ashes:
The Exigence was a macguffin older than the Yozi's found during the primordial war by a group effort of the Incarnae because the Incarnae had no interest in sharing the secret of exaltation with all the gods. All the incarnae experienced diminishment in the process of creating their chosen. "Bound by an ancient geas, the gods could not themselves fight the ancients".

Autochthon taught the Incarnae the secret of Exalting people(Exalted Essence page 43).

Of course from a doylistic standpoint Exigence is pretty obviously a tool to enable homebrewers and Devil-tiger fans in spite of 3e infernals being more and less than 2e infernals. 3e get Devil Tigeresque features out of the box like inner worlds and goetic demons, personal shintais, the same lifespan as solars, access to Sidereal Martial arts with a tutor, Solar Circle Sorcery and 2nd circle Necromancy(I'm fuzzy on if they got that in 2e) but they don't use the literal charms of the yozis and can't primordialize.

From Vance in the Exalted Discord on 7-28-2022:
I get what people mean by exigence is a tool to enable homebrewers but it's not really for devil tigers. As you say 2nd edition and 3rd Edition infernals differ in how their charms work but they're largely the same in function. Exigence essentially allows you to play non-core flavor of 3/4 God that every exalt is. It also allows you to play characters that are a bit less tuned or bit less hard edged. Sometimes you don't want to play the I am the best swordsman the best assassin the best X because the sun's narrative is excellence. Sometimes you don't want to play the person who has hard inbuilt trauma who has muscled through it or otherwise survived it like the lunar Narrative of survival. Sometimes you don't want to be an agent of fate in any form. I myself hate the dragon blood in narrative I wish for the last two editions they've given some kind of independent point for dragon-blooded that isn't just lost eggs because both lookshy and the Scarlet Empire are screaming make yourself less than what you could be in service of an Empire that is destroying the world, in service of ideas along since gone in service to a false religion.

Sometimes you want a narrative that binds you to a place that doesn't force you to leave it when the wyld Hunt comes the chosen of the river of Assisi in the east it protects it and the plains around it from the incursion of the raksha. It also kind of neatly wraps up the question of how the hell are these places on the outskirts of creation when the dragonblooded have essentially raped the entire world out of all of its valuables surviving and the answer is usually they aren't but occasionally a God is willing to do what needs to be done.

For the Getimian that comes down to their theming doesn't it the dragon beyond the world cares not for boundaries and the one who tells a shape of things to come might be able to see into the past and the future and even then they still don't make more chosen because making chosen requires they invest something of themselves into it the fact that both of them did it together horrified them even more than they had done it separated.
Exigents Out Of The Ashes Pg. 14 said:
Many lesser gods clamored for the secret of Exaltation, but the Incarnae kept it guarded, fearing what might come after the war. Instead, they sought out a font of power, with which they could empower the little gods to choose Exalted without surrendering the great secret. The Five Maidens saw it beyond the world's edge, a numinous and otherworldly power older than the world's makers. Worldwalking Luna found the path to it, navigating through a labyrinth of unreality. The Unconquered Sun kindled it with an ember of his own Essence, igniting and consuming that primeval force to light the divine fire of Exigence within him, an answer to the Incarnae's urgent need.
They didn't find the Fire Exigence they found a battery that Sol turned into the great Flame. Which is to say they did what the primordials did and just went out into the Wyld took something from the infinite possibility of the Wyld and came back and turned it into something useful.
 
I don't have a preference, so for now I'll just vote for all of them.
The South and East are likely to be the most time consuming paths I feel and the South involves creating a new vulnerability for no apparent gain. The East "lake that should be sea" is likely related to lake Michigan which contains Demonreach, we know that the mined mineral was for a prison and Demonreach is right next to Chicago. That seems like the most narratively engaging option to go for first.
 
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Just to be clear you guys do not have to go to all four or even the three that have paths, you just have the option to is you want to poke them.

Anyway, good night guys.
 
[X] North to the Empty Roost, the spirits dwelling there are described as being gripped by the sorrow than wrath, maybe there's something you can do to help or at least some agreement you can reach with them on borders in the Nevernever

[X] West to deal with Embermane, that sounds like it's going to have a straightforward if violent solution

[X] South, carve a new path

I have negative interest in dealing with Demonreach at the moment. It doesn't help us secure this side of last station and ensures we get wrapped in some bullshit with the mega prison for shit that no one could manage to kill at the time.
 
Wasn't that answer a supernatural secret man? Prison of the supernatural that no longer fits including broken gods sounds pretty damn secret to me.
 
It's canon that the exalted died a lot and spent significant time in training once exalted. Any lead up to reduce that would be valuable.
Being able to implant exaltations into specific pre-trained people is a way to reduce the training time. From this perspective it makes sense to be able to manually select Exalts.
More than that, it cannot be a system answerable to anyone because the gods couldn't stop the primordials from subverting any system answerable to them. That is the reason mortals were required in the first place.
Can I get a citation? Because that's not what E2 Core says:
In time, the gods grew discontent at their slavery. They could raise no hand against their creators, however, so they empowered mere mortals to be both their weapons and their champions. These chosen mortals, these Exalted, then rose up and made war against the Primordials on the gods' behalf.
In the earliest times, the gods became discontented with their lot as keepers of the world, tenders of Creation and mere servants of the Primordials. The Primordials had created the gods with mighty geasa laid upon them, however, such that the gods could not use anything that was divine, or any of the stars or planets or moons or turning seasons, to work the undoing of their creators. The Primordials did not mention mortal life in these geasa, for they did not believe that anything mortal could be a threat to them.

The Unconquered Sun proposed to his fellow Incamae that they should take humans and give them great power, so that the humans could fight as their champions against the Primordials. The other Incamae agreed, and they went out and chose mortals to become heroes—the first of the Exalted. Gaia would create no soldiers, but she gave her blessing to the Elemental Dragons, and they raised up soldiers to serve as the armies for the heroes, the Dragon-Blooded. Autochthon, also a Primordial and the first of all smiths, turned against his brothers and gave the Exalted the designs for mighty weapons that could destroy the Primordials.

After the war with the Primordials was concluded, the Incamae took up the Games of Divinity, leaving the stewardship of Creation to the Exalted. In turn, the Exalted took up the position that the Celestial Incamae had once held, having authority over Creation and the Terrestrial gods.
According to this, the mortals were required because gods were forbidden from using any other means to harm Primordials. That was a direct restriction. No mention of the danger of subversion is mentioned. The reason for why gods cannot control the exaltations is given as follows:
It is important to understand that although the Exaltation springs from a divinity and is clearly aligned with that god's influences, its maker has no natural control over it. Had this been otherwise, the gods would have merely been ordered by their Primordial overlords to gather the power of the Exalted back up and forced to crush their own uprising. Exaltation is a fire passed into the hands of man, a gift that cannot be taken back, and what the Exalt does after receiving it is governed by his will and vision alone.
From this, we can conclude that Primordials could order gods to do at least something, and that the danger perceived was being ordered to take the power of the exaltations back from mortals. Yet "select mortals aligned with Primordials" is not a danger discussed anywhere.
Not being able to command them but being able to choose them specifically is a loophole so large as to render the rule irrelevant.
You keep appealing to the godly geas, yet
a) We don't know the limitations of the geas.
b) We don't know why Luna, Sol and other celestial Incarnae weren't ordered to take the field on the Primordial side and kill all the exalted (something they could almost certainly do)
c) You are dismissing the role of Gaia and Autochton in the rebellion, both of whom were also Primordials, and thus had command authority over celestial Incarna. It's plausible that at the start of the rebellion the first order to be given to the gods was "stop listening to Primordials" or something to that effect.
d) I disagree that the loophole is large enough to render the rule irrelevant. Normally (without using Autochton-built tools) celestial exaltations can only bond to specific types of people - the heroes, the survivors, etc. That's something hard coded within them. Being able to select within those pools, and only within those pools, is enough of a safety that "give the exaltations to Primrodial loyalists" order wouldn't work, I think.

You are also ignoring direct examples of Lunars being directly selected by Luna, not by an automatic process.
What's the difference between you encrypting your hard drive and someone trying to slip ransomware on it from the other side of the planet? They both do basically the same thing after all. The exalted doing things to themselves, or their exaltations, starts from a position of privileged access.
It's only easier for me if I have root access. Which exalted don't have for their exaltations. Or at least solars don't.
the lack of exalted v exalted combat
While there was no exalted vs exalted combat, Gorol (and probably other traitors) existed (manual of exalted power: Infernals):
THE SEDUCTION OF GOROL
The Night Caste assassin Gorol was among the first gen-
eration of Solar Exalted and was, by all accounts, completely
loyal to the Unconquered Sun and to his circle-mates. How-
ever, during one of the most crucial battles of the Primordial
War (which took place sometime between the second week
of hostilities and the 157th year of the War—both sides em-
ployed time-distortion weaponry which made any coherent
chronology impossible), something shattered that loyalty.
Gorol and his circle succeeded in slaying the fetich soul of
the Primordial who would later become the Neverborn now
known as the Abhorrence of Life, but at the cost of all four
of Gorol's circle-mates. Perhaps his presence at the destruc-
tion of one of the Primordials gave Gorol a special insight
into the Great Curse that eluded his brethren. Perhaps the
Night Caste was the victim of some final mental assault from
the dying Primordial. Or perhaps the blasphemous energies
unleashed by the Primordial's demise, combined with survivor
guilt, simply drove Gorol mad.
Whatever the reason, Gorol came to believe that the
destruction of the Primordials would ultimately work the
doom of not just the Solar Exalted but of all Creation. And
so it was that one of the greatest heroes of the Primordial War
turned his back on the Unconquered Sun and betrayed the
Exalted by becoming a spy and saboteur for Malfeas himself.
This was Gorol's first damnation. Fortunately for the Exalted,
Gorol's betrayal came too late to change the outcome of
the war. Many among the Solar Exalted would later suspect
that it was Gorol himself who smuggled the Primordial's
soul-typhoon weapon into the hidden stronghold of the
Dragon Kings, thereby bringing about the near-genocide of
that once great race. Though this charge was never proven,
Gorol was among those who had access to the facility. It is
certain, however, that Gorol did leak valuable intelligence
to the Primordials throughout the last third of the war, and
his treachery was perhaps the cause of a significant percent-
age of Exalted casualties. Gorol evaded detection for these
crimes, and after the war's conclusion, he impressed many of
his Solar peers with his eloquent words in support of Gaia's
petition for imprisoning the captured Primordials rather than
sentencing them to death. Those swayed by his words did
not realize that his true goal was to see his masters trapped
in a prison from which he might later free them.
It never came up in their deliberations though. The debate was basically to guide the solars as they were or kill them, not to try hardening the candidate pool or what have you.
As far as I know, this is what we know of the Vision of Gold vs the Vision of Bronze:
THE VISION OF BRONZE
Whispers in the ears of hounds—a thousand-thousand
dragon-hounds bay the hunt. How shall the mighty be dragged,
bloodied and furious, from their thrones? Darkness cloaks the
hound, and the keeper of the kennel watches beneath fi ve bloodied
stars. Weep for the hounds that must put down the mad, and
catch up the mad to never again taint the world. Hounds are ill
suited to sit thrones, but in so doing, the estate is preserved.

The Vision of Bronze foretold the horrors of the Usur-
pation: Exalted and mortal lives lost on an unimaginable
scale, comparable perhaps only to the decimation of the
Primordial War. The Sidereals also knew that the violence
would never end as they hunted constantly reborn Solars,
though a few saw symbolic dreams in which the sun itself
shattered into 300 sparks of white fi re and fell, extinguished,
into the sea. From these visions came the concept of the
Jade Prison, paired with visions of strange designs etched on
the sea that proved to be the patterns of Essence necessary
to imprison Solar Exaltations.
The Vision of Bronze terrifi ed many Seers. They saw
themselves shackled with the ultimate responsibility of
both governing and protecting Creation, rather than simply
advising those who did so. The Seers saw themselves drift-
ing through the shadows, whispering in Dragon-Blooded
ears, taking all of the risks and none of the rewards for their
efforts. All who spoke of it agreed—the Five-Score Fellow-
ship could not possibly do the work of 300 Lawgivers and
300 Stewards, all the while still fulfi lling their duties in the
Bureau of Destiny. Creation would suffer and be lessened,
though it would survive.
Those who supported the Vision of Bronze accepted
the lessening of Creation, and that their jobs would sud-
denly become much, much more diffi cult. They and their
Dragon-Blooded pawns simply could not preserve the vast
Essence-fueled industries built by the Lawgivers. Some said
this was for the best: at least the diminished use of Essence
would reduce the disruptions to fate. All in all, claimed the
nascent Bronze Faction, Creation's survival meant more
than Creation's glory.

THE VISION OF GOLD
Three hundred golden swords, raised above the heads of
men. Cautious star-etched hands must touch the swords, must
hold them, must wield them. One slip, and the blades shall cut
away those hands, and loose carnage and war—the ringing of
blades against blades shatters the palace of glass. Wielded deftly,
the blades of gold uphold the palace of glass forevermore.

It took many weeks for the seemingly disparate prophe-
cies that form the Vision of Gold to be acknowledged as a
single foretelling. The outcomes were so different and strange
at every turn that they might as well have been entirely
different fortunes, save for one aspect: all were brought
about by the Sidereal Exalted revealing their concerns of
madness to the Solar Exalted.
In some visions, the Sidereals revealed their concerns
to a few Lawgivers who shared the Sidereals' concerns.
They worked together to create a system by which the
Solars might themselves be appropriately policed. Working
hard to quell any concerns and to keep their system above
corruption, the Solars could address the fears of the Seers,
and lead Creation to even greater heights of glory, peace
and justice than before.
Other visions gave darker outcomes. In those visions,
word of Sidereal concerns reached the Solar Exalted. Some
Solars agreed, and cast a suspicious eye on their peers,
never once considering that they themselves might be
mad. Paranoia and accusations of corruption and madness
led to civil war. Sidereals and Lunars were forced to either
fl ee the pogroms or be swept up into them. Solar battled
Solar until Creation became a wasteland and the Wyld
consumed the ruins.
The Sidereals who chose this vision believed they
could manage the revelation and help the Solars regain
their sanity. After all, the Sun's Chosen had succeeded at
so much. If they could be persuaded to reform themselves,
how could they fail?
Many of the Sidereals were not so sure; indeed, even
those who did not wish to see Creation lessened still sided
with the Vision of Bronze because it was sure. The Vision
of Gold fanned into many possibilities, never settling into
a single, stable truth. The future foretold by the Vision of
Bronze might take a thousand years or more to fulfi ll, but in
the end, a new Realm would rule all of Creation, lumpen,
a bit brutal, but unchanging, forever.
We don't know what sort of policies would have been enacted. Perhaps selection of candidates for exaltation would be one of them.
 
[X] West to deal with Embermane, that sounds like it's going to have a straightforward if violent solution


North requires Lydia, East is Demonreach, and while I would support it, I think dealing with the fire spirit first makes sense.
 
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I have negative interest in dealing with Demonreach at the moment. It doesn't help us secure this side of last station and ensures we get wrapped in some bullshit with the mega prison for shit that no one could manage to kill at the time.
When you chose to free the Knights while we were at the Castle at the time it wasn't known that it would help us with the dog recruitment quest and doing so did have the potential of spiraling off. Carving a new path (South) sounds like it could get us wrapped up in something unrelated and possibly violent as well. The firespirit (West) can't cross over on its own and may in fact serve as a deterant by being an environmental hazard neighbor to the Last station if let be. It wasn't freed to the mortal world before as I read it, the spirit was born from the Chicago fire and has been here since.

None of these options seem like they'll help us secure the Last station since we have no plans to expand into the NN and already confirmed the status of this side; guarded by Beedrills against nefarious entities and Wizards that put them at risk by using the Sight at their birthplace.

Actually I'll change my vote for now, on second thought getting involved with Demonreach related things doesn't seem relevant atm.

[X] Null
 
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When you chose to free the Knights while we were at the Castle at the time it wasn't known that it would help us with the dog recruitment quest and doing so did have the potential of spiraling off. Carving a new path (South) sounds like it could get us wrapped up in something unrelated and possibly violent as well. The firespirit (West) can't cross over on its own and may in fact serve as a deterant by being an environmental hazard neighbor to the Last station if let be. It wasn't freed to the mortal world before as I read it, the spirit was born from the Chicago fire and has been here since.0

None of these options seem like they'll help us secure the Last station since we have no plans to expand into the NN and already confirmed the status of this side; guarded by Beedrills against nefarious entities and Wizards that put them at risk by using the Sight at their birthplace.

Actually I'll change my vote for now, on second thought getting involved with Demonreach related things doesn't seem relevant atm.

[X] Null
Fair enough but going to the prison for things that no longer fit with automatic functions with a thing that hasn't been seen since a previous iteration of reality bolted to your soul just seems like a good to actually get Wrapped up in Demonreach. Even if I might be paranoid superprison for things left forgotten might be dangerous for miniature walking Darkhallow Molly. It just seems like it is a long metaphysical and physical distance from this side of last station even if it is the closest thing to the east. In comparison to the Active belligerent to the west (which can be converted to splendor fuel or our belligerent). The spirits just begging for conversion, befriending or at least a non aggression pact in north and finally the rather alarming complete fog of War to the south.
 
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