Missing link for the second roll.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Missing link for the second roll.
I want to hold las vegas and then god forge that sin eater into a loyal god.
Its useful as a source of finance, experience for our agents and prestige. Deploy a hundred of amethyst hand agents and a few sorcerers, they can definitely hold it against a fair amount of force.
Like seriously get a diviner and fate mage and just stuff then in a base and have them run surveillance. Put a team with some mortars if we need strong hitting forces.
Its useful as a source of finance, experience for our agents and prestige. Deploy a hundred of amethyst hand agents and a few sorcerers, they can definitely hold it against a fair amount of force.
Like seriously get a diviner and fate mage and just stuff then in a base and have them run surveillance. Put a team with some mortars if we need strong hitting forces.
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Could do it in an afternoon. Crown question using a random Red to identify the location of a Lord, RVD to infiltrate a few miles away and then pull out a heavy enough weapon from the FFC and hit them with some bunker buster equivalents.
Quick, easy, and very lethal.
Sandra is presumably aware of the possibility of failure and vindictive enough to leave some last fuck yous or contingents behind to cause trouble even if she couldn't pull off Plan A.
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BoredMan
Everyone gets a tariff now. Even the penguins. wtf
Our agents are not subtle and the masquerade still exist. We used them here because it was underground. They don't have a way to kill Outsiders that the Red spam and this would derail our schedule for the month.
Not caring either way but you should keep information asymmetry in mind.
No one knows for sure what Molly can do and what her limits are. Neither do they know for sure what buttons cause her to flip out.
What is known paints a fairly scary picture in terms of power.
Dresden Files is fairly used to powerful, fairly opaque threats. Their first instinct is generally not to take a stick and poke it in the eye to see what happens. If it is a Dragon that you do that to, unfortunate things may happen.
Generally speaking, they try diplomacy first to scout out what the other side is about.
As just one example of how many unknowns are bouncing around, when Susan wielded Amorachcius to defend her daughter while invisible against the Red King at the center of his power, he was wary because he was unsure what the fuck was going on with that floating holy sword.
He thought it might be some shade of a god that used to rule in the region.
So YOLOing into a very killy unknown is generally considered to be a poor idea. You never know if it is gonna maul your entire faction in retaliation.
In Mollys case, there is a very credible threat that she would team up with the White Council in the war. They AFAIK don't know that she is already helping.
If they know about the Mab favour, they are gonna be even more cautious as that is basically a strategic nuke.
The first guy had no such thing, and it was explicitly mentioned that some suspicious deaths happened during the Red Court takeover of the tunnels, which suggests that it doesnt appear to be something
And these are Rampires, with Rampire disciplines.
Entirely possible none of that mind control magic would work on Rampires anyway, and that its something the rest of the setting might know but we dont.
Primarily because people are trying to set policy in another city, ruled by another spirit, and expecting it to stick based on no other legitimacy besides we killed people.
And expect it not to crumble as soon as we turn our backs.
A lot of people are assuming that personal puissance translates to nationstate levels of control.
We arent at that point.
Yet.
No we could not.
Red Court, and indeed all vampires, operate primarily in mortal settlements. When Ebenezar dropped a satellite on Casaverde, which was an estate near, not in a human village, he killed more than a hundred civilians. Thats not counting injuries.
Molly is not doing that shit for spite.
No.
Sandra is exceedingly competent, but even that has limits; she did not plan for Molly showing up 24 hours ago and wrecking her shit. And if she was doing stay behind suicide bombs, she'd have used inconspicuous mortals, not the same vampires whose boss had just tried to destroy the city.
Furthermore, Sandra is literally right there to ask. She's alive.
They are subtle, they are literally spies. It may take a bit they will adapt.
And they can beat outsiders, their guns just doesn't work. We can probably craft them some anti outsider gear or spirit. Hell the god forged sin eater could do that for us.
The Masquerade is very resilient. See the loup garou tearing through the police headquarters of a major American metropolis and no one outside those directly impacted noticing or caring.
Molly has Occult 5 as does Tiffany. She's know if Red vampires were immune to mind control.
And the fact that it requires some work and opportunity to implant triggers doesn't matter when it's very plausible that Sandra had the time and chances to do so after Dragon was on side
A bunker buster bomb would not destroy a village, so that concern is a red herring.
And beyond that, strategic retaliation to maintain deterrence against enemy states is not spite. It's war, or politics by other means. Molly is a head of state in an existential war with the enemies of all that live, a category the Red Court has voluntarily joined, which means that these are things that will happen. There will be collateral damage and it will be impossible to save everyone.
Sandra is well aware that failure is possible. She knows the calibre of agents that the people who live in this world can deploy, between Winter, Summer, the other gods, Heaven's Knights, and Hell's Denarians.
Particularly as some extra programmed scenarios may not have cost her much, if anything.
And I would expect that Sandra is well aware of the possibility of capture and that she has already erased her most critical memories. She could completely honestly deny that she's done anything and it would mean little.
Plus, this is all totally irrelevant to my point. The question isn't what Sandra did, but what it's at all possible that she could have done. Given how dangerous she is allowing vectors for her influence to roam free would be insane for anyone who doesn't have relevant Perfect information gathering effects to rule out the possibility.
Fair points all round
However, a couple countervailing arguments: Over the last 6-7 months, Molly has
- Foiled a Red Court assassination attempt on a Senior Council member
- Foiled a Red Court-backed coup attempt in the White Court
- Killed (one of)the Red King's daughter and her retinue,
- Began supplying the White Council with weapons.
None of this is happening in isolation. Much of it is happening in public.
Caution is warranted around new players of power, but if they are being hostile anyway....There is only so far we can push without expecting a sustained pushback, even if its only for their own PR purposes. Part of the reason I suspect we have seen repeated probes is that Chicago is supposed to be off-limits. Arianna tried to get clever with Seeker, and well....
Besides, frankly, I dont want to turn the entire quest into World War Red and have the Red Court entirely dominate the focus of events.
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BoredMan
Everyone gets a tariff now. Even the penguins. wtf
Thankfully we don't need that to merely show up and kill entrenched Reds near the Gate.
First of all not every agent that was suggested is a spy so stop that. Secondly that would require a huge investment of time a resources and we do plan on doing other things this month.
That was a single incident. Our people in general aren't familiar enough with Earth to be given this mission offhand and handle it without a masquerade breach. Also a state of emergency was declared for Vegas this place will be swarming with the National Guard, FBI, and all kinds of shit they will be noticed.
Tough.
Seeing as they love to spam the "Summon Outsider" spell and most people in thread want to uplift humanity in the long run that is probably inevitable.
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- Location
- Germany
We killed several elders plus Arianna herself in one action.
I'm willing to invest that, if they make us.
We are not some fledgeling anymore, there is very little the average vamp can do to stop us.
To them Molly is the Terminator, but a lot faster.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
[X]Plan Red be gone
-[X]Buy Night Shallows Secrets (•••) and Broadcast Announcement Prana (•) for 13 XP
-[X]Use intimidation exultancy 1 mote + Demonic Primacy of Essence + Sig
The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell + Wet BSM + merciful Source Code Compliance Protocol.
-[X]Stunt: "One moment please" As the Dragon's body cools you feel your self brimming with authority you let it burst out and every speaker in Las Vegas rings with your voice. "Attention the Local leader of the Red Court in Las Vegas has just been executed for consorting with outsiders and conspiring to destroy the world. As a result all members of the Red Court are hereby banished from the city of Las Vegas. You have 28 days to sell off your local property before you are found out of compliance." You turn back to your phone. "Sorry about that now there are no more loose ends".
-[X] Then use Night Shallows Secrets to stop people from talking about you disturbing the peace.
[X]Plan Red be gone
-[X]Buy Night Shallows Secrets (•••) and Broadcast Announcement Prana (•) for 13 XP
-[X]Use intimidation exultancy 1 mote + Demonic Primacy of Essence + Sig
The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell + Wet BSM + merciful Source Code Compliance Protocol.
-[X]Stunt: "One moment please" As the Dragon's body cools you feel your self brimming with authority you let it burst out and every speaker in Las Vegas rings with your voice. "Attention the Local leader of the Red Court in Las Vegas has just been executed for consorting with outsiders and conspiring to destroy the world. As a result all members of the Red Court are hereby banished from the city of Las Vegas. You have 28 days to sell off your local property before you are found out of compliance." You turn back to your phone. "Sorry about that now there are no more loose ends".
-[X] Then use Night Shallows Secrets to stop people from talking about you disturbing the peace.
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- Location
- Germany
That's basically breaking the Masquerade for no reason though.
Sure, nobody of average willpower can speak about it, but it will still be know, still recorded.
People can react to it, I think.
And in a year it will be open to talk about.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We can renew as many times as we want and the maskerade has alway been something like the conspiracy of silence in Warhammer fantasy. So long as most don't talk it holds.
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BoredMan
Everyone gets a tariff now. Even the penguins. wtf
You have to counter his "you'd be breaking the Masquerade" point if you want people to vote for that.
Fixed thanks.
Also I have to say it's nice to see all the debate and politicking. It's been a while since we have had to deal with that what with the conflict being very straightforward when dealing with Sandra and Co.
- Location
- Germany
Feels a bit repetative.
We've had this "We should kill the people-eating monsters" vs "We can't change the status quo" talk quite a few times.
Would she? Molly did not know what White Court vampires were when she first met Thomas.
Her Occult was out of date and we were updating it with Bob.
We still have a bunch of prisoners being investigated in Sanctuary.
And while Tiffany should know based on her memories, if she thought that mind-controlled Rampires were a potential issue when we planned to take them as backup into the tunnels, she would have mentioned it.
Vampires, all varieties, invariably live in human-populated areas. Both for security, and because thats where the prey is.
Paolo Ortega was just having a retreat in his Honduran estate.
His fulltime residence?
Was in Rio de Janeiro, population 6.7 million, because he was a professor there.
His wife, who we killed?
Lived and worked in the middle of the city of Leon, population 1.7 million. Thats why we went to the trouble of intercepting her plane where the civilians were limited.
No offense?
But this delusion that you can sling high yield vehicle-carried military ordinance around in populated areas without civilian casualties needs to stop.
Your argument is that she would put her spite contingencies, if any, in the very first people we, or anyone else, would look at.
Instead of inconspicuous mortals who have no connection to the supernatural.
That makes no goddamn sense.
There is literally no evidence, or suggestion, that you can mindwipe yourself in the Dresden Files.
I dont think its even possible in vanilla Mage; someone else has to set that up.
Thats not how it works.
If we followed your argument to its logical conclusion, we would have to quarantine the entire city of Vegas, because she has been here for 7 months and could have put triggers in anyone's head during that time.
Certainly the entire 25,000 plus student population of the University of Nevada Las Vegas, where she explicitly went to class.
Not to everyone all the time, but here and now we can. Once a stable state is found nobody will want to rock the boat again.
I doubt the red court exactly has the resources to make a play here anyway, because the dragon essentially went rogue and only nominally answered to them.
By design he only allowed their formal structure so much power here, and they're committed to a war elsewhere right now. They'd basically need to pull a new duke tier power out of their ass who doesn't have anything better to do than live full time in Vegas.
RPGs in the streets, chemical weapons in the clubs, and smuggled anti-tank weapons sufficient to kill an armored column in the university; somehow I think there's plenty of legal trouble to go around.
If you're sending the same people you use for Dresden and major cults after small fry in the middle of war you're giving them up somewhere else.
The sin eater is vulnerable and dependent on us to restore order so it can act again. The nature of the task is that we're enforcing something on this place when doing so.
You just don't want us to make the picks we want with the influence we have here and now. Pick the winners we want and kill the losers we have issues with, people are already disinclined to screw around here as long as it stays stable.
Personally I'm still in favor of setting up the Library to rule the roost.
This could be their big break; where they have a job that gives them respect and leeway from the major powers like the dragon got. Potentially the start of something more for mortals in general, which is going to be a slow systematic thing and better started sooner than later.
I didn't have "Vegas grants legitimacy to the Federal Government" on my bingo card, but I'll take what I can get.
I'm sure it would be very nasty, but I don't think it would break the place open. There is a lot of juice going into that fortress and it's only partially in the mortal world anyway.
- Location
- Earth
This one links to Reading Charon.
[X] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
Problem is, Red Court doesn't have much time left. Tech progress makes its foot soldiers obsolete or hard to use. So they either need to downscale retaining only their aristocracy and casters, removing literal thousands to tens of thousands of lesser vampires or go for a short victorious war. Hell, a war that they lose but their leadership survives also serves their purposes as long as they can cripple some of their opponents in the process.
On the macro scale yes, but now have a bunch of other options to use, like for instance calling on Winter in the form of Maeve. Heck you could call in the White Council. Ramirez would probably jump at the chance to kill a bunch of mid level Red Court Vampires
It is also a question of how much you want to get in bed with the LoC and therefore in some ways with the US government, who are I will remind you guys, really not happy at all the vampires drinking the blood of the populace. That is a major reason why Daedalus is still a thing.
Molly is not as isolated as she used to be.
- Location
- Right Where I Am
I actually like this idea. I think that we can handle Maeve well enough for it to be a positive rather than a negative.
She's been approached by the Library. There hasn't been time for her to actually sign up unless she blitzed through that.
I still want us to recruit her.