- Location
- florida
Any chance our ranged attackers can blow through whatever she is hiding behind?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Fire resistance isnt all that hard to cook up under Mage rules.
For example, Fire's Weal is a 2-dot Hellfire ritual under Sorcerer rules.
Rituals
Fire's Weal (2)
This ritual allows the user (or whomever they cast the ritual upon) to resist natural flames, and provides at least some protection against even mystical flames. Roll (Manipulation + Occult) against difficulty of 7; if you score mroe than 2 successes, you can soak fire damage as if it were bashing damage, instead of aggravated; more successes reduces the soak number needed (so 5 successes on this check would result in the recipient being able to soak fire damage as bashing, with a -3 on the soak difficulty). This ritual costs one Willpower and lasts one scene.
Fire's Weal (2)
This ritual allows the user (or whomever they cast the ritual upon) to resist natural flames, and provides at least some protection against even mystical flames. Roll (Manipulation + Occult) against difficulty of 7; if you score mroe than 2 successes, you can soak fire damage as if it were bashing damage, instead of aggravated; more successes reduces the soak number needed (so 5 successes on this check would result in the recipient being able to soak fire damage as bashing, with a -3 on the soak difficulty). This ritual costs one Willpower and lasts one scene.
1)Doesnt change the fact that there are literally orders of magnitude more random people than there are trained ritualists within easy reach.
I mean, if you are an inhuman mass-murdering asshole in cahoots with a Red Court noble, you could have a pack of Rampires walk into a bar or a club and dump V in the drinks. Then fill the back of a couple white vans with hapless victims and cut their throats over your ritual.
2)Im not arguing with the QM.
Im pointing out that there were much simpler, straightforward options available to the mass murdering Nephandi mage running this entire operation. It doesnt appear to be in tune with her meticulous characterization thus far to expend assets she could use for her endgoal on whats essentially prepwork.
If she did it that way, it says things about her magical strength, and her confidence in her magical strength, to go up alone with no magical backup against the Sin-Eater and its seal.
Like I said, she's going solo against the Sin-Eater to crack a seal that it took multiple prehistoric wizards to set up?
Even with the Dragon providing her a shortcut/arcane focus?
That looks very much like an archmage-tier feat. Even if she has patrons on her side.
Somehow I doubt there are a lot of items for warding off lightning guns out there yet.
His resources aren't limitless either, whatever he invested in getting good enough to turn into a vampire-dragon is stuff he couldn't spend on a suite of enchanted items.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well break into the way should at least be a DC 9 roll now. After all that is Molly's willpower and she has to roll against it to get into her own kingdom.
Well good thing plasma from guns isn't natural or mystical flames. It isn't even a chemical reaction like fire is.
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- Location
- Germany
I feel like I'm talking past you.
I know what Full Defense means.
I say you need it to defend against mass-attacks, because you run out of actions after 3-5 defensive actions otherwise.
A Vamp with Celerity can take X more of course.
Say 25 guys with Electro-Lasers shoot at you, you have Dodge 7/Dex 8 Celerity 7 with Flower of Death already active because you are a big bad vampire here.
You dodge the first one.
DC 6, Dicepool 22
Second
DC 7, dicepool 21
third
DC8, dicepool 20
fourth
DC 9, dicepool 19
Then you use Celerity 7 and dodge 7 further shots at DC 6/Dicepool 22.
And that leaves you with 14 mortals still shooting you without active opposition, dealing their full damage.
You probably soak most of that, but ultimately even a fraction of 14 full-auto shots with aggravated-damage weapons is going to hurt.
And also you just wasted your turn on defensive stuff.
Do you understand what I mean by saying that you can't just use defensive actions against massed fire from 20+ attackers?
Even elder vamps run out of actions halfway through the defense.
You have to spend those actions on escaping, killing attackers, making yourself untargetable for mortals or anything like that, because dodging or blocking is not going to work.
Given as we dont know what it is or whats inside it? Shooting through it is probably contraindicated.
And thats assuming we CAN shoot through it.
Save your ammo.
On who?
There's only one Red Court vampire here atm, and the Dragon has enough Fortitude + Armor that its likely to only counts for around 1-2 HLs of damage.
Hold it for an occasion or enemy where it might matter.
The electro-lasers count as Fire damage.
Soaking Fire damage as bashing instead of Agg is like a Hellfire 2 effect. Not trivial, but not a major investment.
Given the shit that a relative wastrel like Madrigal could get his hands on, a Dragon that was actively cooperating with Sandra Marling and has been aware since November that Winter might come looking for her?
Will have some personal prep.
Is it just sunlight that it generates, or more anti-CoD attack in the form of sunlight?
It looks very alien and deeply magical, some kind of Outside Shit (TM) so it seems very unlikely that anything as mundane as a mass produced riffle, even one that shoots plasma would get through. Lydia's Hunter's Bolt might get through just because it's a charm, but Molly has no idea what the odds might be.
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This is what Im disputing.
Here's my understanding:
In this scenario? Your defence caps at DC9, dicepool 19.
Thats the cap. It doesnt go lower, and you arent undefended.
Basically, Full Defence: Dicepool 22 at DC6 against all attacks
Normal Defense Action: lowest Dicepool is 19 at DC9, and you dont run out because you defended normally.
=====
There's also the interpretation where with each Extra Action, you do the whole DC6 to DC9 rundown again
But that seems opposite to the intent of Holden, who explicitly said he's trying to reduce/eliminate split actions.
So I ignored it.
Sunlight.
Basically its the heavy duty equivalent of Harry's sunlight in a handkerchief effect that he used on Bianca in Book 1.
It will harm things that are vulnerable to sunlight: young Rampires, some spirit types, maybe some magic types.
It wont harm things that arent vulnerable to sunlight, whether CoDs or not.
Toss it at some ghouls and all you'll achieve is to dazzle them a little.
If a Rampire is old enough or powerful enough to resist sunlight damage, it wont affect it either.
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- Location
- Germany
And here I have to say, there is only one way I can understand this rule:
It's very simple, not much room for interpretation.
You get to take actions until the DC would go above, 9, then you can't take more actions.
And because you mentioned the Multiple Opponents rule yesterday
Here is the actual rule from page 276:
We are not using that rule, which is okay.
That rule would apply penalties to all actions, and is unconnected to the multi-action penalties.
Agreed on that, all Extra-actions take the normal dicepool and difficulty, as far as I can tell.
Charms like Thousandfold Typhoon Hand explicitly mention the full dicepool, though not the normal DC, but that seems implicit.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
You probably wouldn't believe how much debate there has been about us learning the VEE Charm.
The key modifier there is:
Defending yourself is one action.
Attack: One action.
Defend self against attack: One action.
Sprint/Fly at full speed: One action.
Carry someone(s): One action.
Break a door: One action.
Cut your name into the clothes/skin of your enemy: One action
My two cents.
- Location
- Germany
Defending yourself against one attack is one action.Defending yourself is one action.
Attack: One action.
Defend self against attack: One action.
Sprint/Fly at full speed: One action.
Carry someone(s): One action.
Break a door: One action.
Cut your name into the clothes/skin of your enemy: One action
My two cents.
Defending against two, takes two actions.
In V20 it always speaks of "a" attack, never attacks.
Also, otherwise the Full Defense option wouldn't make any sense.
It's forgoing any actions except defense, to prevent the rising DC that would otherwise happen.
If "Defending" were just one action, then you would always use it at the best pool and DC when only defending.
As you can clearly infer here, a vampire defending under these rules would normally have to split his pool among multiple defensive actions.
We don't work with pool-splitting, but it's the same with difficulty-increasing.
It's also the reason why Opened Eye of the Hurricane or Fivefold Bulwark Stance are 5 Dot charms. Because defending has a serious opportunity-cost.
Now you've got me curious. Gimme the highlights?
- Location
- Germany
[X] Have Lash fly around to try to tackle Sandra behind the pillar
-[X] Lydia runs after her to support her in case of an attack
-[X] Harry hold himself ready to shield if needed, or blast Outsiders coming from the walls
-[X] Molly and the Fireteams go all in on the Dragon
-[X] Fireteams, Adkins and Harrowmont spread out to minimize AoE damage from the Dragon
-[X] Stunt: The light of the halogen lights on the ceiling is overtaken by the light of plasma from the storm's edge filling the room, the closest thing Sanctuary has to a dawn. As your light fills the room and runes on your armor react to it, reflecting shining blue instead of radioactive green you take to the air amidst a hail or shots, two dozen men and women firing their lasers until the barrels begin to glow, your sword unerringly before you, ready to plunge into the great beast ahead.
-[X] Lydia runs after her to support her in case of an attack
-[X] Harry hold himself ready to shield if needed, or blast Outsiders coming from the walls
-[X] Molly and the Fireteams go all in on the Dragon
-[X] Fireteams, Adkins and Harrowmont spread out to minimize AoE damage from the Dragon
-[X] Stunt: The light of the halogen lights on the ceiling is overtaken by the light of plasma from the storm's edge filling the room, the closest thing Sanctuary has to a dawn. As your light fills the room and runes on your armor react to it, reflecting shining blue instead of radioactive green you take to the air amidst a hail or shots, two dozen men and women firing their lasers until the barrels begin to glow, your sword unerringly before you, ready to plunge into the great beast ahead.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Lots of support for it, some opposition. Rinse and repeat at least a half dozen times, with weeks or months between each spurt of debates.
Lots of potential uses given, including minion upgrades, power brokering (literally and figuratively), upgrading allies, etc. Including your idea about using it as a method for our friends and families to escape dangerous situations.
I'm in favor of learning it eventually. It's just expensive and we always have more pressing purchases when it comes time to spend XP.
That's fair enough-there's a LOT of really useful and powerful Charms from what I've seen that I can honestly say would be much higher priority. And that's not even mentioning Sorceries. Or Alchemy. In effect it'd be a very nice Charm to have and extremely useful when politicking...but it's not immediately critical. And our friends/loved ones are generally stronk/well-defended enough that we haven't had to worry about them dying so far.
Except in that one time we did. But we managed to negotiate our way out of that somehow. But still.
I dont believe thats how its supposed to be interpreted in ExWoD.
No I dont agree.
There's a significant difference between using Full Defence to defend yourself at DC6 and full dicepool, and having to defend at DC9 and -4 dice because of mass attack penalties.
To use your previous figures:
Full Defence of 22 dice at DC 6 is an average of 11 successes
Normal defence of (22-4 =)18 dice at DC 9 is an average of 3.6 successes.
There is a marked decrease in effectiveness.
It just does not become zero.
I dont think this is a good argument here.
For example, Sun-Denying Spite is 3-dots and would have essentially made it impossible for enemies to target anyone beyond 5 yards away. Faster Than Sight is also 3-dots, and essentially makes Molly invisible when moving.
You're having the Brawl 0, Melee 0 woman tackle the Nephandi archmage who has unknown tricks up her sleeve.
Neutralizing her mobility advantage.
When we know explicitly that there are Outsiders here that we cant currently see.
At very best, if she grapples Marling, she cant defend herself from other attack, and gets shanked in the back.
She has 7HLs only, and only 7 Soak.
Her best defense is Dodge, rolling Dex + Athletics.
Bad plan.
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What plan do you have in mind?
- Location
- Germany
Sure, tricking the enemy into being unable to attack you is generally the superior option compared to getting shot at.
There are a lot of Vampire Disciplines that allow for that too.
Okay, then I guess we have quoted what we can quote.
@DragonParadox
Seems it falls to you to interpret.
That's why I'm sending Lydia with her.
Sure, Lash is vulnerable for a moment, but then Lydia can beat up Sandra, likely not killing her by accident if she uses bashing damage, and all is fine.
Besides Dresden has good range and is on Outsider duty, he'll hopefully blast anything coming out of the shadows.
Lydia is much slower than Lash.
Lydia only has 10 Soak, which isnt all that much better. Lydia has 1 Essence, and so is limited to her mortal dicepools in combat. She can be tarpitted by a couple Outsiders.
And in doing so, you are leaving the wizard(and Harrowmont, and Adkins) without close-in protection.
In a place where having the Starborn wizard alive and healthy is going to be critical to resolving this situation.
A Dresden who is fighting for his life against Outsiders is not counterspelling Sandra.
A Dresden who has wound penalties afterwards is much worse at trying to disentangle whatever the fuck Sandra Marling and her conspirators have managed to get in place.
Like I said, bad plan.