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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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TonedMite said:
Given the complexity of a nuclear device, I would consider techbane causing a detonation to be quite unlikely. A fizzle maybe, but even then… At least for modern implosion type warheads.
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Depends on how we interpret it. Techbane isn't an emp or something, it's the bane you accept for practicing magic. Not quite paradox, but the same zip code. The trigger isn't magic being generically bad for tech, it's mortal magic making tech fail in ways inconvenient or dangerous to the people around it.

A very complex failure isn't necessarily any more unlikely than a simple one for the same reason Harry can track someone with their hair without doing a gene comparison to everyone in the city in his head. Magic doesn't necessarily interact with material properties or information under their normal logic.

To draw from canon, Harry's tech bane is equally capable of making a high tech modern gun explode in his hands as it is causing the electronics is a car to start looping the same warning audio constantly. Which is a very specific and weird problem to have if it was a uniform field randomly applying the same pressure to different objects.

If it was doing that I'd expect the electronics to just fail entirely.


fictionfan said:
May I say that all these phones calls would have been a great opportunity to use Golden Years tainted black. Basically could have ruined Sandra's relationship with all her pawns and considering how her relationships seem to have been built on mind magic it feels like just undoing her influence. Would not have even cost us any essanse.
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Maybe, but if they're heavily indoctrinated then simply making them hate her wouldn't necessarily stopped them from doing what she said.

There's also the consequences for the target. We don't get driven crazy by altering someone's mind like a wizard would, but the mortal is still a mortal.

My base assumption is that unlike regular mind magic our charms don't implicitly drive you crazy the longer you're subject to them and the deeper the change they inflict on their own, but I'd be concerned about the health of someone who's got a solaroid charm twisting one way and black magic twisting the other.

In the charm-brain-spell wrestling match I think there are good odds the weak link would be the brain.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Maybe, but if they're heavily indoctrinated then simply making them hate her wouldn't necessarily stopped them from doing what she said.

There's also the consequences for the target. We don't get driven crazy by altering someone's mind like a wizard would, but the mortal is still a mortal.

My base assumption is that unlike regular mind magic our charms don't implicitly drive you crazy the longer you're subject to them and the deeper the change they inflict on their own, but I'd be concerned about the health of someone who's got a solaroid charm twisting one way and black magic twisting the other.

In the charm-brain-spell wrestling match I think there are good odds the weak link would be the brain.
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I am not given to understand that mental magic is not an ongoing thing. That's why it's so bad. If it was an ongoing thing then you could just dispel it. But in this case it would mean no tug of war.
 
[X] Go out
-[X] Talk to Silk at the Xanadu
--[X] Have someone carry you in a bleach bottle for the travel duration

I... have to voice a concern - what are we actually doing? We now have enough possible foci for Sandra (everyone she brainwashed should count). We should be going after her directly at this time.
 
Yog said:
[X] Go out
-[X] Talk to Silk at the Xanadu
--[X] Have someone carry you in a bleach bottle for the travel duration

I... have to voice a concern - what are we actually doing? We now have enough possible foci for Sandra (everyone she brainwashed should count). We should be going after her directly at this time.
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I figured this is like the last stop. We either recruit this last bit of allies that we can or we let this friendly faction Evacuate the city before the actual high combat starts that defines the fate of this area of the North American continent. After we finish this stop at the Xanadu it's use the conversations we had with her minions / mind control people to find her and then put an end to this one way or another.
 
Yog said:
I... have to voice a concern - what are we actually doing? We now have enough possible foci for Sandra (everyone she brainwashed should count). We should be going after her directly at this time.
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Right. I guess more recon would be out of habit, not actual expectation of anything useful coming of it.

[X] Use your record of the calls with Sandra's minions as a focus to find her current location, then start tracking her down. If need be, use further foci to get her.
 
[X] Go out
-[X] It's risky, but maybe you shoudl check in Jacob

This isn't about the practicalities of fighting Sandra. I just want to step in to help this guy.
 
Degorium said:
I figured this is like the last stop. We either recruit this last bit of allies that we can or we let this friendly faction Evacuate the city before the actual high combat starts that defines the fate of this area of the North American continent. After we finish this stop at the Xanadu it's use the conversations we had with her minions / mind control people to find her and then put an end to this one way or another.
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We also have to talk to Charon in this case - he's likely the highest tier combatant remaining in the area, and he has a reason to be pissed at us. I don't want to be stabbed in the back while fighting Sandra.
 
Yog said:
We also have to talk to Charon in this case - he's likely the highest tier combatant remaining in the area, and he has a reason to be pissed at us. I don't want to be stabbed in the back while fighting Sandra.
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I mean if we do go to the talk at the Xanadu. We will have a chance to go to the canal and then speak to the ferryman to be frank it's probably a really good idea even if we can't get him on side for a fight.
 
[X] Use your record of the calls with Sandra's minions as a focus to find her current location, then start tracking her down. If need be, use further foci to get her.
 
Yog said:
I... have to voice a concern - what are we actually doing? We now have enough possible foci for Sandra (everyone she brainwashed should count). We should be going after her directly at this time.
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Agreed. I don't think Charon will interfere with this though it's possible Sandra bought his help somehow. If so we may have to get rid of him.

[X] Use your record of the calls with Sandra's minions as a focus to find her current location, then start tracking her down. If need be, use further foci to get her.
 
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I still think it's now time to start bringing in flying sutras from Sanctuary

We don't know how much muscle that Sandra has backing her up for what couod be a major play given the scale involved. If we're dealing with things like superghouls things could get very messy very fast, and having artillery or simply enough forces to engage her own. Particularly as she may be able to call up physically powerful Outsiders or suborned Nevernever creatures in extremis. That means even asking about her current assets wouldn't reveal them.

[X]
 
Thinking about IPM… would something that directly modifies her intimacies proc it? Since, depending on how it's written, it's not forcing her to undermine/abandon them, it would just modify/remove them outright (for instance, retroactively making them never have formed)?
Particularly for a perfect effect… would it necessarily give us an opportunity to reflexively activate it if it is subtle enough?
 
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fictionfan said:
I am not given to understand that mental magic is not an ongoing thing. That's why it's so bad. If it was an ongoing thing then you could just dispel it. But in this case it would mean no tug of war.
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Harry talks about this a bit; essentially it's sort of both and varies based on the context.

The reason mind magic has degenerative side effects is that when you put a spell on someone they subconsciously try to push back, but the magic holds the changes in place. Trying force the issue at that point is like trying to escape a razor wire chastity belt by ripping it off with your bare hands.

You can dispell it, with two qualifications. Firstly, it doesn't undo damage that's already been done to the mind in resisting. Secondly, that the Dresden Files largely doesn't do "cast anti-magic sphere" type dispelling.

If this was a sci-fi setting mind magic wouldn't be super-hypnosis, it'd carving people's skulls open and putting in cybernetic control implants. Depending on the skill, care, and resources of the person doing it you get more or less brain trauma - but no matter how skilled they are surgery is surgery.

If you want to undo it you've got to do brain surgery too, and their grey matter isn't more understanding of the cuts you make to get the implants out than it was of the ones that put them there.

Or that's my understanding of it anyway.
 
[X] Use your record of the calls with Sandra's minions as a focus to find her current location, then start tracking her down. If need be, use further foci to get her.
 
DragonParadox said:
That Masks May Ring Like Bells​
13th of January 2007 A.D.
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DragonParadox said:
Rolls
Who Picks Up?
Introduction
Do you notice? vs Sandra Subtlety (Successes x2 since you are trying to notice what she did from nothing more than a phone call)
Redirect vs Opposed willpower
Talking to Kate
Wits+Streetwise to figure out why her
Redirect to the other Group vs Opposed willpower
Exalted Lying vs Charity's Bullshit Detector... closer than it had any right to be
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COMMENTARY
Jacob's parents died in October. AFTER Sandra came to town.
Obvious murders are obvious. Poor kid is both an orphan, and probably not a millionaire any longer, not with Sandra having had her fingers in his pocket and his brain for that long. And he's probably on the hook for funding a terrorist conspiracy.


Jacob looks like a job to pass off to Arlene Ghorbani and the Ishtarites.
She CAN break mind control, she has access to paramilitary-trained forces and a White Court vampire to do non-lethal apprehensions, she knows how to work the local system, plus this falls into their bailiwick of human trafficking.

Just call her, warn her, and let her go at it. Which satisfies Molly's conscience without diverting her.


Okay. We have confirmation that there's chemistry involved in this plot, and a location for whatever chemical atrocity is currently being brewed on the campus. Looking at Google Maps, the UNLV main campus is within 1-2 mile radius of both the international airport and several major casinos; 2 miles from the Venetian Casino and Resort in a straight line.


Charity's momdar remains unreasonably effective against her daughter.
You have to wonder if the White God is giving her dice bonuses
Or adjusting the DCs somehow :V


The smart thing is to finish healing before going out.
The exciting thing is to risk walking around with only 86% HP. I think I'll vote for the smart thing; the Outsider cultist had several months to prepare, and I'd love as much expendable HP buffer as we can afford for this one.


Yog said:
[X] Go out
-[X] Talk to Silk at the Xanadu
--[X] Have someone carry you in a bleach bottle for the travel duration

I... have to voice a concern - what are we actually doing? We now have enough possible foci for Sandra (everyone she brainwashed should count). We should be going after her directly at this time.
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Healing. Currently at 13/15 HP; wound penalty is gone, but we're still missing around 14% health.

If we werent damaged, we'd be out and about.
Since we are, we are building information while healing up our remaining damage and letting the rest of our war party get some rest. When we leave this hotel suite, we arent likely to be back until this shit is settled.
 
Yog said:
[X] Go out
-[X] Talk to Silk at the Xanadu
--[X] Have someone carry you in a bleach bottle for the travel duration

I... have to voice a concern - what are we actually doing? We now have enough possible foci for Sandra (everyone she brainwashed should count). We should be going after her directly at this time.
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I'm not sure either. Seems like we should ask for her plan from the crown and go destroy it. At this point more time seems to favor her.

Not having full health is a problem, but we're close enough and this is getting down to the wire.

On this topic though, we need to either make something or buy something that can help with regen. If we were the one being hunted this amount of downtime would be a problem. The healing we have is phenomenal and EIPP saved us from needing to fight this out with mortal health box numbers, but a boost would be good. DtGB does that, but it's expensive. I'd prefer a healing item, probably a higher dot equivalent prodigy that we pay off with flaws.


Also, I have a somewhat related mechanic's question. Looking at the charm set I can't help but notice the exact wording of this charm:

soul-sieve transmutation (•••)
The Infernal contemptuously walks through or
past attacks which should have struck her, shedding only a rain of writhing demon maggots instead of her precious blood.
System: So long as she's aware of an attack, the Infernal may soak with the highest of her Charisma, Leadership, Intimidation, or Occult ratings rather than Stamina, if she desires. If her Stamina rating is equal to or higher than all of the alternative traits of- fered by this Charm, then she adds one die to all soak rolls against attacks she's aware of.
After successfully soaking all of the damage of a
close-range attack, the Infernal may reflexively shower her attacker with demon maggots, increasing the diffi- culty of all of their actions by +2 until they spend an entire turn knocking off the writhing worms that seek to chew upon their flesh and clog their eyes and ears. She also lowers the difficulty of all attacks and Intimidate rolls against someone beset by her maggots by one.
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That doesn't say set your stamina to your alternative score, or add it to soak, as some other charms do. It lets you soak with the other traits, which makes soak into a roll of the selected type.

It's probably clear where I'm going at this point but to be explicit; can we excellency soak against stuff we're aware of with this?

It's not adding to stamina, so it'd look more like Lydia's version than ours. Resulting in this:

Flat:
3 (stamina) + 1 (ES armor) = 4

SST:
5 (Occult) + 1 (ES armor) = 6

SST + Excellency:
5 (Occult) + 5 ( Excellency) + 1 = 11

SST + Excellency + reflexive buffs:
5 (Occult) + 5 (Excellency) + 1 (ES armor) + 5 (VLE) = 16

To call on for 2 motes next time we're getting stabbed and still need to stab someone and be stabbed at the same time with no warning.

SST is pricy for the equivalent of 2 dots in stamina and a point blank conditional debuff, but this line of reasons makes it useful again.

I would like to petition for a refluff to FCF themes instead of maggots though, since that's an option for a lot of charms. Maybe sediment emitting a touch of cursed radiation, tiny winged snakes, or something like that.
 
VOTE
[X] Stay on the phones, you still have a bit of healing to do
-[X] Keep talking to Sandra's 'friends'
[X]Call Arlene and give her a rundown and warning on Jacob, and a request to do what she can


RATIONALE
Healing first.

We arent stopping once we leave this suite, so we better top up on our health before we do.
Plus, the more we know, the better we can intervene while minimizing civilian casualties and consequences for the rest of the city. Measure twice, cut once.

I mean, it would be really counter-productive to capture or kill Sandra and find out that she has already set shit in motion.
And then we have to start gathering information on her thralls in order to find them and stop them.
I mean, three of them are just called out as weird; I wouldnt put it beyond her to have had them possessed by Outsiders.

Also, according to Google, we're just 12 minutes drive from the Luxor Hotel to UNLV's main campus.
15 minutes from the Luxor to the Venetian and its canals where Charon hangs out.
 
uju32 said:
VOTE
[X] Stay on the phones, you still have a bit of healing to do
-[X] Keep talking to Sandra's 'friends'
[X]Call Arlene and give her a rundown and warning on Jacob, and a request to do what she can


RATIONALE
Healing first.

We arent stopping once we leave this suite, so we better top up on our health before we do.
Plus, the more we know, the better we can intervene while minimizing civilian casualties and consequences for the rest of the city. Measure twice, cut once.

I mean, it would be really counter-productive to capture or kill Sandra and find out that she has already set shit in motion.
And then we have to start gathering information on her thralls in order to find them and stop them.
I mean, three of them are just called out as weird; I wouldnt put it beyond her to have had them possessed by Outsiders.

Also, according to Google, we're just 12 minutes drive from the Luxor Hotel to UNLV's main campus.
15 minutes from the Luxor to the Venetian and its canals where Charon hangs out.
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Dealing in terms of percentages is misleading here, in absolute terms we're down 2 points of damage.

Talking to Sandra's pawns doesn't actually interfere with her in any way, and we're close enough to the wire that banking on our ability to find the perfect place to stick the knife later while we let her work now seems suboptimal to me.

It'd be unpleasant to attack her and realize that she finished her plan two hours ago while we were looking at her report card.
uju32 said:
Hell butterflies are a thing.
And remain in theme with the general thrust of charms from that particular charm tree.
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That is nice, and as a bonus we can use the same stuff if we ever buy the obsidian butterfly AS.

Especially since a lot of butterflies have eye patterns on their wings. Demon butterflies with just a spark of balefire to fill their false eyes and inflict distracting harm equivalent to the maggot's ability to chew on your flesh would be neat.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Dealing in terms of percentages is misleading here, in absolute terms we're down 2 points of damage.

Talking to Sandra's pawns doesn't actually interfere with her in any way, and we're close enough to the wire that banking on our ability to find the perfect place to stick the knife later while we let her work now seems suboptimal to me.

It'd be unpleasant to attack her and realize that she finished her plan two hours ago while we were looking at her report card.
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Not really.
To give some perspective, at 13/15 Health, if we suffer 1 point of damage, we are back into -1 wound penalty territory again.
Hence my interest in that buffer.

Talking to her pawns helps us delineate the extent of her plot and its staging grounds.
Without burning Essence we might need later.
If we were up and about I wouldnt bother, but full health seems like the sort of thing we want.

We know her current ritual/plans are supposed to culminate in*checks* roughly 34 hours from now.
Crown-confirmed.
We're nowhere close to the wire.

BronzeTongue said:
That is nice, and as a bonus we can use the same stuff if we ever buy the obsidian butterfly AS.
Especially since a lot of butterflies have eye patterns on their wings. Demon butterflies with just a spark of balefire to fill their false eyes and inflict distracting harm equivalent to the maggot's ability to chew on your flesh would be neat.
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There's also a 5-dot charm called World Grinding Devastation that literally calls billions of (demonic)bugs in to attack everything around you that you dont exempt from damage.
So that works as well.

Especially if they are carnivorous hell butterflies.
 
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