We are totally going to add Lash to our quirky supernatural godlike girls squad...
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Germany
I'd still think Lash is most likely a strongly social build, so unlikely to be a physical threat even in a strong body.
She was made to be a danger without a body at all, after all.
She was made to be a danger without a body at all, after all.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
That makes no sense whatsoever. If we give her a strong body she'll be a physical threat. Thats how that works. Perhaps not to us but to other people in the very least.
With everything Lash knows It's possible she could become a threat(physical or otherwise) to even us with time and investment. Please don't assume because her current tool kit is mostly knowledge based that she couldn't adapt with an Exalted crafted body entirely her own.
For science! Caution is for cowards. And mortals. More seriously, I need to think if I want to gamble.
So, I am guessing 7s in social and possibly mental atteibutes, and capable of magic.
Better than a 5 dot arcana doesn't necessarily mean "combat monster".
Not really? Physical and social attributes are separate, and while appearance is a social attribute, strength, stamina and dexterity are physical ones. It's quite possible to be a non-entity combat wise while being an absolute social and mental monster. I am more afraid of her having magic.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Thats what I'm saying. She could possibly use magic to become a physical threat. Thats besides the point though giving her a maxed out body just because we can, when we can't actually trust her with it is dumb.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
That's debatable. Other denerians exist, summoning bigger fish is a thing. All sorts of shit she could do with her own body and agency. Underestimating people like this gets you or(more likely in this case) others killed.
- Location
- Germany
A strong body is useless without appropriate skills and some supernatural ability to improve your combat further.
For example:
A Golem with 6 in Dex and Str, but only 1 or 2 Brawl or Melee would be pretty harmless to us. Total Dicepool is considerably below ours even without Excellency.
Even below the average vampire with some Celerity and Potency.
And with no magical abilities to directly build on that, said golem would remain harmless.
So I believe Lash would remain a primarily social danger, even in a physically powerful body.
Though I generally think we shouldn't over-invest in her body.
I mean, if your worry is that she will call other denerians then we should not make her an body at all?
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Why are you assuming that Lash doesn't have that or know someone or something that does? Am I missing something?
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Why are we making her a body? Is there an actual reason beyond "For Science!"?
- Location
- Germany
Assuming.
Why would Lasciel have made her mind-shadow with a lot of physical skills?
How would Lash have learned them independently in Harry's head?
It is part of convincing her that she is actually her own person and not Lasciel. (A thing that happened in the books and is an ongoing process atm) This would speed up the flip to the good guys side and unlock whatever knowledge Lasciel did put into the shadow. (The Shadow, Lash is not Lasciel afterall but was given some knowledge and social skills to work that social edge)
And Molly does believe in the whole redemption thing.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I never said she did... You said a strong body is useless without the skills or supernatural ability to improve it.
Knowledge is power. If we make her a body her current build won't actually be all that relevant when she may be capable of making deals or experimenting with her vast knowledge or contacting someone or something else to buff her. Again though thats not the point. She's more likely to lean into other stats but you shouldn't assume she can't make a physical threat of herself.
That makes sense. However without taking measures to at least limit risk, I really feel like this is the equivalent of giving a known enemy a gun and just expecting them not to shoot you.
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That is what Molly is doing here. But she got faith and believes that Lash can be redeemed so she will do it. At that point a 3 dot or a 5 dot does not really matter much, as no matter the size a gun is a gun, if you get shot your in for a bad time.
It's not just because we can, or "for science!" no matter how much I joke about it.
Our long-term goal is to make Lash betray Lasciel and to make her loyal to us / good guys. Short-term goal "get her out of Dresden" or even "get her out of the picture" are far easier - exorcism, then a sword through the heart and MiM. She can't stop us.
We are committed, IC, and seemingly as a player base, to an attempt of redemption. So, we need to do this in a manner that maximizes the possiblity of said redemption. As part of this, the body we are making her obviously cannot be a downgrade from Dresden, or something she feels a need to abandon / change. It's can't be a prison / torture. It has to be a body she's comfortable with. Otherwise, she'll have incentive to pick up the coin, even if she agrees with us that it's a form of suicide.
My argument for a 5 dot body is that we need to make Lash like the body we made for her, and want to keep it. Keen senses, superhuman beauty, sharp mind. Definitely something enduring, so she doesn't age - for an immortal (or someone who remembers being immortal) a mortal lifespan of several decades would feel like a life sentence.
It's a honeypot, basically.
Tock, tock, tock, tock, tock, tock, tock!
Satan grumbled and opened one eye. Someone was really going to get it. Who the hell thinks it's normal to hammer in nails at 4:37 in the morning? What kind of monster would do something like this?
Tock, tock, tock, tock, tock, tock, tock!
He growled and got out of the bed. First he was going to find out who it was that decided to wake him up and then... then he was going to get creative. He opened the shutters and finally laid his eyes upon the culprit. It was a girl. In Hell. That was hammering a giant billboard to a side of a volcano.
Tock, tock, tock, tock, tock, tock, tock!
NEW HELL, NEW RULES!
PROVIDING NEW CHOICES!
WE ARE HIRING!
1-312-666-1313
M. Carpenter
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I can't argue that.
I still feel like your underestimating the threat level here. She's not stupid. She's a resident of Harry's head she knows how fatal a direct confrontation would be. If she causes problems for us she won't be trying to fight us one on one she'd try everything to avoid that.
To use an example from a modern anime- think Getou vs Gojo. He knew fighting Gojo 1v1 was suicide, so he simply didn't plan to. He stalled and captured him with an artifact Gojo's powerful but young(relative to the one who stole Getou's body) self had no knowledge of.
At the moment she has no idea we know Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism. She almost certainly has no idea such a ritual even exists. It's Ancient Sorcery - a remnant of a toolset Primordial host used to make Creation - the dev. console of reality, as it was. No matter how mighty we are, normally we wouldn't be able to use it, because it's not a matter of might, it's a matter of user permissions.
The "I can get you out of Dresden's head" is going to be a surprise.
I have no idea who those people are or where this is from, sorry.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I'm not sure what your getting at here. From what Harry has seen of Molly Lash should be well aware that a direct confrontation with us would be lethal is what I'm saying. She doesn't have to know about that specific spell to come to that conclusion.
Don't worry about it. Point is Lash is smart and there are ways to take out people above your weight class. This is the setting for it.
We've been given multiple warnings that she's going to be stronger than what we'd stat an equivalent arcana as and in ways we can't predict right now. Underestimating her would be a risk.
It's worth mentioning again that her daughter with Dresden was a target in part because she inherited her mother's knowledge and even the shallow imprint of a fallen Angel has a shitload of knowledge.
She knows the names to call on the prices to offer, and the levers to pull to make the Dresden Files universe tick in her favor. She isn't the only one, but let's not pretend for even a moment that the threat is a speculative one.
When negotiating the terms of his service as knight Harry threatened Mab with the possibility he'd simply perform the darkhallow and become a necromantic god if he had to, which would result in a much less pleasant follow up conversation after he saved his daughter. Lash knows that and likely a dozen other far scarier pieces of bullshit that Lasciel couldn't use due to the rules and she wasn't going to share with Harry unless it bought his soul for her.
If we take this risk we should keep the actual details of the situation in mind:
1) We don't know if Lash has changed enough yet to regard herself as distinct from Lasciel.
2) We don't know if those changes would actually matter. Not being Fallen grade evil doesn't make her a good person our align our agenda. She could be every bit a monster her mother is and have died for love of Dresden anyway.
3) If she doesn't come out a threat she knows at least one way to ascend to godhood and probably has a lot more dangerous lore than that running around in her head.
4) The imprint is designed to be a social manipulator. The part where she's ready and willing to be as monstrous as the fallen but still manages to make you like her is the bit where she's playing you in social combat.
This is a true blue leap of faith that could easily blow up into serious consequences for Molly and for the people around her. Arguably it's more likely to do that than anything else. Heaven has super socials, if that was enough we'd see more shadow defectors.
If we're doing this anyway we should do it with that in mind instead of trying to sell ourselves on the idea that this is a done deal or that we could easily manage the consequences of something going wrong.
It's worth mentioning again that her daughter with Dresden was a target in part because she inherited her mother's knowledge and even the shallow imprint of a fallen Angel has a shitload of knowledge.
She knows the names to call on the prices to offer, and the levers to pull to make the Dresden Files universe tick in her favor. She isn't the only one, but let's not pretend for even a moment that the threat is a speculative one.
When negotiating the terms of his service as knight Harry threatened Mab with the possibility he'd simply perform the darkhallow and become a necromantic god if he had to, which would result in a much less pleasant follow up conversation after he saved his daughter. Lash knows that and likely a dozen other far scarier pieces of bullshit that Lasciel couldn't use due to the rules and she wasn't going to share with Harry unless it bought his soul for her.
If we take this risk we should keep the actual details of the situation in mind:
1) We don't know if Lash has changed enough yet to regard herself as distinct from Lasciel.
2) We don't know if those changes would actually matter. Not being Fallen grade evil doesn't make her a good person our align our agenda. She could be every bit a monster her mother is and have died for love of Dresden anyway.
3) If she doesn't come out a threat she knows at least one way to ascend to godhood and probably has a lot more dangerous lore than that running around in her head.
4) The imprint is designed to be a social manipulator. The part where she's ready and willing to be as monstrous as the fallen but still manages to make you like her is the bit where she's playing you in social combat.
This is a true blue leap of faith that could easily blow up into serious consequences for Molly and for the people around her. Arguably it's more likely to do that than anything else. Heaven has super socials, if that was enough we'd see more shadow defectors.
If we're doing this anyway we should do it with that in mind instead of trying to sell ourselves on the idea that this is a done deal or that we could easily manage the consequences of something going wrong.
- Location
- Earth
She knows a lot of our secrets. Most importantly about our Crown.
Because she happened to be paying attention when Harry learned about it.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Shit I forgot about that. Now I am firmly in the nobody camp.
There is also kinda 2.1 She may even decide not to be evil and still follow through on Fallen goals if she still thinks that it's the right thing to do.
Fallen have gone against God for whatever reasons. It's not something you do just on a whim. They all believe in what they are doing.
Case in point in one of the fanfics the reason their whole rebellion started was because they were against God giving humans enough free will to be able to call Outsiders. Lash could be 100% supportive of Harry, help him fight Outsiders and other monsters, behave as a decent human being and still be an antagonist in the end.