Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[firefrog600]

actually I'm curious can people in our hell have true faith for us? If yes do we have anyone with 5 or more dots in it? Like the religions at least 10,000 years old from what I know in our hell. It'd be unsurprising if one or two have 6 dots in true faith which is basically bodhisattva level true faith and saints.

 

[BronzeTongue]

I suppose if we run after her technically we'll be trespassing too.

Somehow I think we'll have an easier time talking ourselves out of trouble than Arianne would.

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I still think the idea that she'd do this is crazy.

Ortega has no way to know she won't literally drop into the lap of a high fey noble, and no way of knowing where it's safe to come out again because she's off the map.

Moving across the street on either side of the gauntlet is enough to make hundreds or thousands of miles of difference on the other. It has a logic, but it's not one you can predict unless you're deep into the study of interdimensional interactions.

People think it's suicidal because most of the time trying that shit kills or worse than kills you. The one time Dresden does this he interrupts dinner time in the feast hall of an Incarnae level fey lord entertaining his army of superhuman mass murders.

This was a relatively good draw for a random jump because he was friendly enough to let them duel the reds that followed to the death for his amusement and let the other party go.

 

[DragonParadox]

I still think the idea that she'd do this is crazy.

Ortega has no way to know she won't literally drop into the lap of a high fey noble, and no way of knowing where it's safe to come out again because she's off the map.

Moving across the street on either side of the gauntlet is enough to make hundreds or thousands of miles of difference on the other. It has a logic, but it's not one you can predict unless you're deep into the study of interdimensional interactions.

People think it's suicidal because most of the time trying that shit kills or worse than kills you. The one time Dresden does this he interrupts dinner time in the feast hall of an Incarnae level fey lord entertaining his army of superhuman mass murders.

This was a relatively good draw for a random jump because he was friendly enough to let them duel the reds that followed to the death for his amusement and let the other party go.

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While it is true that she could drop in the lap of a fey noble, they are also not that common so it's not that liking. Ultimately it is a question of what one is running from, if it's bad enough even a blind jump may have its palace.

 

[Yog]

All we need to do is reverse engineer a plausible way to have theoretically made that connection while running down outsider bullshit to make it look legitimate enough that they'll be inclined to check the guy out. It's not all the traitors, but it's the most dangerous one active right now.

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I still say that "give the info to Dresden" is a perfectly viable way to handle it. Maybe with one added step of "find a focus for Peabody, any focus, and use it to find what evidence of his treachery exists". Should be fairly easy if he has modern legal identity.

 

[firefrog600]

I still say that "give the info to Dresden" is a perfectly viable way to handle it. Maybe with one added step of "find a focus for Peabody, any focus, and use it to find what evidence of his treachery exists". Should be fairly easy if he has modern legal identity.

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I'd ask for multiple things of evidence really. Cause its gotta be very convincing also get as much dirt as possible.

 

[fictionfan]

[X]Plan make your decisions accordingly
-[X] Make some Speed so you can actually catch up with the plane
-[X] Try to get some of your demons into Mexico City's Air Traffic Control Network so you can keep track of the plane and wipe out any records that reveal too much
-[X] Call on Mab not as a favor more of a heads up that a High Noble of the Red Court might soon attempt to flee though Winter's domain

 

[LightLan]

[X] Plan: Read the dossier
-[X] Make some Speed so you can actually catch up with the plane
-[X] Try to get some of your demons into Mexico City's Air Traffic Control Network so you can keep track of the plane and wipe out any records that reveal too much
-[X] Use the Dossier Broken Seeker provided for you to look into A.L.R. and discover who else is going to be on that plane

 

[BronzeTongue]

I still say that "give the info to Dresden" is a perfectly viable way to handle it. Maybe with one added step of "find a focus for Peabody, any focus, and use it to find what evidence of his treachery exists". Should be fairly easy if he has modern legal identity.

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Dresden doesn't have a good poker face or a good explanation for how he'd know this stuff.

If we give it to him right this second and then send him into a room with Peabody he's probably going to set it on fire one way or the other. Followed by an interrogation by the strongest wizards on the planet.

Your plan isn't viable because it doesn't actually shield us or our critical secrets from scrutiny. If anything it's worse than just handing over the list, because it has the same net effect while also making us look incompetent.

While it is true that she could drop in the lap of a fey noble, they are also not that common so it's not that liking. Ultimately it is a question of what one is running from, if it's bad enough even a blind jump may have its palace.

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I guess, but I think it's telling that almost nobody even attempts this or even suggests it in canon. Harry's case is the only example I'm aware of, and he basically scraped by on plot armor.

For it to not even come up as a desperate option even in theory for anyone else, and for things like Wizards to get killed running along known routes while red vampires chase them, deviating seems like it has to be pretty awful an overwhelming majority of the time.

 

[LightLan]

I guess, but I think it's telling that almost nobody even attempts this or even suggests it in canon. Harry's case is the only example I'm aware of, and he basically scraped by on plot armor.

For it to not even come up as a desperate option even in theory for anyone else, and for things like Wizards to get killed running along known routes while red vampires chase them, deviating seems like it has to be pretty awful an overwhelming majority of the time.

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To me it sounds like it's the "I NEED to be elsewhere. ANYWHERE else. RIGHT NOW."-option.

Just - you know - if you see death approaching.

 

[uju32]

We want White Council to know, but why would we want red Court to know? If they attack fomori in retaliation, then, even if the truth is uncovered afterwards, fomori are unlikely to forgive them. It is a strike against our enemies, and sowing confusion in their ranks. It also adds a layer of protection for our loved ones, if only a little.

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I dont believe we can simultaneously benefit from the PR consequences of being known to kill the Red King's daughter without having to deal with the consequences. Cant flaunt it with the White Council and their allies while hiding it from the Reds.

Besides, do remember that this is a high profile assassination in the skies of Mexico.
Molly is going to be flaring her anima here, and it will be visible(and audible, and smellable) to a lot of supernatural entities for hundreds of miles around, from nature spirits to fae to sorcerers and wizards.

There might even be human survivors who witness her coming through the side of the plane like the Kool-Aid Man.
Just a divination with the plane will probably establish our presence.

Sure, Nemesis might hear about it, but would Nemesis reveal that it has another agent high in Lara's trust to us?

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Nemesis canonically sacrificed Cat Sith, who would be Eldest Malk in this AU, in an attempt to kill Winter Knight Dresden, Warden of Demonreach in Cold Days.
I would not be surprised about it burning an agent in an attempt to kill a hostile Infernal Exalt.

Besides, we have IC knowledge that Nemesis is human enough to bear a grudge; its entirely plausible that it wont make some decisions based on cold calculation, but a fit of pique.

There's an argument to be made to giving Mab the list of traitors to White Council. Or at least Peabody. Defense against Outsiders is her purview. I think she'll be able to do something about it, and it won't burn a favor. Or at least she'll be able to get information to Rashid.

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Yes there is an argument for it. However, there's at least two against it
1)Mab is perilous. She's Earth's defender, but a dangerous person in her own right

2)Mab's tolerance for collateral damage, and the tolerance of most of her agents is probably a lot higher than Molly's.
Always consider if what you are pointing her at is in the vicinity of stuff and people you'd rather not damage or kill.

3)Mab is an immortal.
She can be very patient about taking the timing for an action. I dont know if the White Court can wait that long

That scene seems more like it supports my point than refutes it.

The fact that she thought just having holy symbols around wasn't a problem indicates they mostly aren't. She'd have also been taking a stupid risk just approaching someone playing dress up if anyone with a blessed whatsit could exploit their bane; a guy cosplaying as a Templar is exactly the sort to have holy water or weird blessed stuff on them too.

That whole scene was a series of bad decisions on the reds' part, but it'd be "forgetting to breathe" level stupid of them if knights weren't a special case.

On the Naagoloshii, I wasn't talking about the holy water hurting him I was floating the idea it would really piss him off.

If I'm correct on this using holy symbols against reds basically announces your earnest faith to anyone watching, because it doesn't work for you otherwise. That doesn't match the model he's built of Molly, and is the sort of thing that could make him do something unwise.

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1)Not really.
Besides, I can confirm: Holy water works regardless of faith. Susan used it against an attacking Red maybe a chapter later, when her attempt to use a cross failed because she didnt have sufficient Faith.

Spoiler: Grave Peril

I turned to see Thomas, Susan, and Justine holding off a ring of vampires, at the base of the stairs to the dias, between the pair of spotlights. Only scraps of skin and cloth clung to the vampires. Some of the Red Court still had partially human faces, but most stood naked, now, free of the flesh masks they wore. Black, flabby creatures, twisted, horrible faces, bellies bulging, mostly, tight with fresh blood. Black eyes, empty of anything but hunger, glittered in the light. Long, skinny fingers ended in black claws, as did the grasping toes of their feet. Membranes stretched between their arms and flanks, horribly slime-covered, the beautiful bodies and shapes of before given way to the horror beneath.

A vampire lurched toward Thomas, while another reached out to grasp Susan. She thrust her cross in its face, but unlike with Mavra, the wood did not blaze to light. Faith magic isn't always easy to work, even on vampires, and the Red Court, creatures with a more solid hold on reality than the more magical denizens of the Black, were not so easily repelled. The vampire howled, mouth yawning open, foaming slaver spattering Susan's red hood.

She twisted and fought, and with her other hand swept up another baby food jar of holy water - not at the vampire, but at the spotlight beside them. With a screaming hiss, the water vaporized against the heat of the light, bursting out in a sudden cloud of steam that enfolded the vampire completely. It let out a screech that swept upward through the range of human hearing, vanishing above it, and fell away from Susan, its skin sloughing off, the black, stringy muscles and bones beneath showing through.

Susan fumbled her basket open and drew her gun. She fired for the vampire's belly, the rapid thump-thump-thump of panic fire, and the vampire's abdomen ruptured, blood spraying out in a cloud. The vamp fell to the ground, and I remember thinking that she'd just killed the thing - really and truly taken one of them out. A fierce pride shot through me, and I headed down the stairs.

And then our streak of luck ended.

2)I dont agree.
Seeker knows damn well that Molly is the daughter of a Knight, and has personal knowledge of Amoracchius.
Its aim is seduction and corruption, and there would be no point if the subject did not have something to corrupt.


EDIT
Note: Garlic, holy water and the cross apparently would all work on Black Court vampires

 

[LightLan]

@DragonParadox does making some Holy Water Factory Fog cost an action as well, if we want Molly to have some?

It'd be useful inside the closed space of an airplane.

 

[DragonParadox]

@DragonParadox does making some Holy Water Factory Fog cost an action as well, if we want Molly to have some?

It'd be useful inside the closed space of an airplane.

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It does yes, different ingredients and you do not have a laboratory yet so it's using Harry's lab which is not set up for this kind of thing, getting all the reagents etc...

 

[DragonParadox]

Good night guys, see you in the morning with Mexico City.

 

[uju32]

@DragonParadox
Couple clarifications needed:

QUESTION
1)Would potentially herding Arianna into the hands of the Winter Court be a violation of the letter or the spirit of Molly's deal with Broken Seeker? Im pretty sure that Seeker would like to eat Arianna for the power buff, as she is a millenia old sorceress and probably the equivalent of a full set of magical steroids for a naag, and I would prefer to deny it to him if we have the option.

2)Molly needs Red Court antivenom.
Bob knows how to make it, as does Dresden; we see them do it in Death Masks.
Will it take an action to make some, or can we just steal some off Dresden's shelf?

 

[ImBuda]

@DragonParadox
Couple clarifications needed:

QUESTION
1)Would potentially herding Arianna into the hands of the Winter Court be a violation of the letter or the spirit of Molly's deal with Broken Seeker? Im pretty sure that Seeker would like to eat Arianna for the power buff, as she is a millenia old sorceress and probably the equivalent of a full set of magical steroids for a naag, and I would prefer to deny it to him if we have the option.

2)Molly needs Red Court antivenom.
Bob knows how to make it, as does Dresden; we see them do it in Death Masks.
Will it take an action to make some, or can we just steal some off Dresden's shelf?

Click to shrink...

Why do we need the antivenom? Our exalted body, our mind and shaping defences should do the trick

 

[DragonParadox]

@DragonParadox
Couple clarifications needed:

QUESTION
1)Would potentially herding Arianna into the hands of the Winter Court be a violation of the letter or the spirit of Molly's deal with Broken Seeker? Im pretty sure that Seeker would like to eat Arianna for the power buff, as she is a millenia old sorceress and probably the equivalent of a full set of magical steroids for a naag, and I would prefer to deny it to him if we have the option.

2)Molly needs Red Court antivenom.
Bob knows how to make it, as does Dresden; we see them do it in Death Masks.
Will it take an action to make some, or can we just steal some off Dresden's shelf?

Click to shrink...

1. Yes it would be, though you know he's a monster and Molly does not care about the deal she made with him that much, a significant part of her is contemplating how to kill him
2. That you can take from Dresden yeah... well pay him for after applying social dice to get him to take the money but same thing.

 

[firefrog600]

Why do we need the antivenom? Our exalted body, our mind and shaping defences should do the trick

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those cost essence?

 

[fictionfan]

[X]Plan make your decisions accordingly
-[X] Make some Speed so you can actually catch up with the plane
-[X] Try to get some of your demons into Mexico City's Air Traffic Control Network so you can keep track of the plane and wipe out any records that reveal too much
-[X] Call on Mab not as a favor more of a heads up that a High Noble of the Red Court might soon attempt to flee though Winter's domain

[X]Plan holy deathtrap
-[X] Make some Speed so you can actually catch up with the plane
-[X] Try to get some of your demons into Mexico City's Air Traffic Control Network so you can keep track of the plane and wipe out any records that reveal too much
-[x]Craft holy water mist to fill the air plane with.

 

[BronzeTongue]

To me it sounds like it's the "I NEED to be elsewhere. ANYWHERE else. RIGHT NOW."-option.

Just - you know - if you see death approaching.

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I get it, my point is just that IC people treat it as implicitly lethal enough that it's not worth trying. It gets handled with the same attitude as a jump into the warp without a Gellar field. Which implies some things about the survival rates people in the know have seen over the centuries.

If it "only" killed 80% of the people who went in blind I'd expect more people to roll the dice when cornered than we ever see. This even works the other way; wizards will die running for the exit point before trying their luck opening one early.

 

[uju32]

Why do we need the antivenom? Our exalted body, our mind and shaping defences should do the trick

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Shaping defenses dont defend against poison, we dont currently dont have the antipoison charm, and Red Court venom counts as supernatural.

According to my understanding of the rules, we would have to roll Stamina to resist, with a -2DC buff to our roll because Exalted.
Molly is only Stamina 3.
Better to take preparatory steps than get caught out.

1. Yes it would be, though you know he's a monster and Molly does not care about the deal she made with him that much, a significant part of her is contemplating how to kill him
2. That you can take from Dresden yeah... well pay him for after applying social dice to get him to take the money but same thing.

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1)Okay. Better to kill her then; we dont like Seeker, but reputation matters even with bad guys. Maybe especially with bad guys.
2)Cool cool.


@OctarineShrike
If you edit your plan to include Molly remembering to take Red Court antivenom from Dresden's apartment?
I'll vote for it.

 

[Yog]

Your plan isn't viable because it doesn't actually shield us or our critical secrets from scrutiny. If anything it's worse than just handing over the list, because it has the same net effect while also making us look incompetent.

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You are underestimating Dresden. He knows himself. If he thinks he will give the secret out, he will not get into the same room as Peabody. And note the second part of my plan - use the crown to learn what evidence of treachery exists. We give that information to Dresden. It allows him to answer why he torched Peabody.

I dont believe we can simultaneously benefit from the PR consequences of being known to kill the Red King's daughter without having to deal with the consequences. Cant flaunt it with the White Council and their allies while hiding it from the Reds.

Click to shrink...

If forced to choose, forcing Red Court into a war with Fomor is a far greater strategic win than getting some (very arguably) good PR with White Council. It brings less heat to us, it damages more of our enemies, and stronger still, and it uses a unique situation in a more productive and efficient way.

We'll get good PR from our constructive contributions, i.e. weapon and equipment sales from the courts, and perhaps custom orders. We can forego a little bit of addition goodwill if we can pit two of our great enemies against each other.

Besides, do remember that this is a high profile assassination in the skies of Mexico.
Molly is going to be flaring her anima here, and it will be visible(and audible, and smellable) to a lot of supernatural entities for hundreds of miles around, from nature spirits to fae to sorcerers and wizards.

Click to shrink...

You are overestimating from how away far Molly is detectable and identifiable, even in Shintai. Again. Hundreds of miles is overestimating by orders of magnitude. If it was so, Dresden would have felt our shintai activation when we were in Cleveland. Frankly, I am tired of this. @DragonParadox could you please clarify - what is the distance (in general terms) from which Molly's power is identifiable.

At most, local spirits will feel that a foul and great power attacked the plane amidst a conjured storm.

There might even be human survivors who witness her coming through the side of the plane like the Kool-Aid Man.
Just a divination with the plane will probably establish our presence.

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I believe that you are overestimating divination in this case. Postcognition (viewing the past) was never shown as something easily done or commonly available. Way too many plots would have been resolved if it was, even for movers and shakers of the world.

EDIT: And remember, we don't the deception to hold forever. Only long enough that Red Court retaliates against fomori. It doesn't matter if they learn the truth after that.

 

[DragonParadox]

You are underestimating Dresden. He knows himself. If he thinks he will give the secret out, he will not get into the same room as Peabody. And note the second part of my plan - use the crown to learn what evidence of treachery exists. We give that information to Dresden. It allows him to answer why he torched Peabody.

If forced to choose, forcing Red Court into a war with Fomor is a far greater strategic win than getting some (very arguably) good PR with White Council. It brings less heat to us, it damages more of our enemies, and stronger still, and it uses a unique situation in a more productive and efficient way.

We'll get good PR from our constructive contributions, i.e. weapon and equipment sales from the courts, and perhaps custom orders. We can forego a little bit of addition goodwill if we can pit two of our great enemies against each other.

You are overestimating from how away far Molly is detectable and identifiable, even in Shintai. Again. Hundreds of miles is overestimating by orders of magnitude. If it was so, Dresden would have felt our shintai activation when we were in Cleveland. Frankly, I am tired of this. @DragonParadox could you please clarify - what is the distance (in general terms) from which Molly's power is identifiable.

At most, local spirits will feel that a foul and great power attacked the plane amidst a conjured storm.

I believe that you are overestimating divination in this case. Postcognition (viewing the past) was never shown as something easily done or commonly available. Way too many plots would have been resolved if it was, even for movers and shakers of the world.

EDIT: And remember, we don't the deception to hold forever. Only long enough that Red Court retaliates against fomori. It doesn't matter if they learn the truth after that.

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The thing about being able to identify something is that you need a term of comparison, if someone with wizard level mage senses had met Molly than they would be able to tell that she is coming 10 miles away or so if they are paying attention, otherwise 'something powerful and very dark is coming'. That said Molly does not have anything that can beat dedicated post-cognition. Does the Red Court have that? Will they use it rather than trust whatever evidence you left? Molly does not know IC since she does not know the resources and the decision makers involved.

 

[Nemonowan]

You are overestimating from how away far Molly is detectable and identifiable, even in Shintai. Again. Hundreds of miles is overestimating by orders of magnitude. If it was so, Dresden would have felt our shintai activation when we were in Cleveland. Frankly, I am tired of this. @DragonParadox could you please clarify - what is the distance (in general terms) from which Molly's power is identifiable.

At most, local spirits will feel that a foul and great power attacked the plane amidst a conjured storm.

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Well, radar and weather satellites should be able to detect a mile-sized spherical storm moving at hundreds of miles an hour from pretty far away

 

[firefrog600]

could always try to bring down the plane over a lake or river stuff like that makes it harder for magic to look at it.

 

[OctarineShrike]

@uju32

[X]Plan make your decisions accordingly V2
-[X] Make some Speed so you can actually catch up with the plane
-[X] Try to get some of your demons into Mexico City's Air Traffic Control Network so you can keep track of the plane and wipe out any records that reveal too much
-[X] Call on Mab not as a favor more of a heads up that a High Noble of the Red Court might soon attempt to flee though Winter's domain
-[x] Remember Red Court Antivenom at Dresden's Apartment