No, merlin can wait, he isn't in a hurry and we agreed to meet him.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x]Yog
It was my impression that our cyberdevils maintained some serious level of cybersecurity. @DragonParadox how secure are calls between two cyberdevil possessed phones?
They treat the hardware as their bodies, hacking into them from afar would be a form of mind control and as you can imagine a mundane hacker would struggle with that. That said it's not point to point, the data still has to pass though the cell power
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Yes but encryption should be easy for them between points.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
of maybe?
They do encrypt the information , but they are only as good as their skill-points at it, well that and the fact that they can take all the time in the world to make the best possible code within that skill-range, unlike human coders cyber-devils to not have to eat or sleep.
Last edited:
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[]Burny detects as a demon because he was rescued from the wicked city.
Seems like the best way to put it.
Seems like the best way to put it.
So, it's reasonable to assume that communications are fairly secure. Not perfectly secure, but "good mundane grade cybersecurity that would take time and effort to crack"?
I think this is more than good enough.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Perfectly secure communication is basically impossible even in person. Well unless we get some mind reading charms and that is a matter of us tapping into something that was considered secure.
Last edited:
Yes, that is what we are talking about, not super humanly good but 'you sure have a lot of good coders to do this'.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We also have IRIS now who likely has whole noval codebooks.
Yes, but she is not in the middle of the conversation right now, she is trying to figure how how earth code even works.
[] Burny IS a demon, but from an entirely different cosmology. He's from a hell, but not THAT Hell.
Point of order encryption can easily be functionally perfect. As in the next Ice age will roll around before you crack the code. The easiest way is to encrypt something, then encrypt it again with a different encryption. This functionally removes the main way of figuring out the code, by knowing the start and end points, and using that to reverse engineer the code. Now this does require a bit of setup, but they can exchange codes when they are in proximity.
For the record anyone with more then basic tech knowledge can snoop a cell phone call. But a properly encryption should be impossible to crack so long as they change codes daily.
For the record anyone with more then basic tech knowledge can snoop a cell phone call. But a properly encryption should be impossible to crack so long as they change codes daily.
Last edited:
Its a 2006 cellphone. That's 3G-era hardware.
IIRC, the hardware couldnt handle much encryption back then; the Iphone 1 isnt even getting released until 2007, and Android only gets invented in 2008.
There's a reason why Priority 1 for me when we get Exalted Crafting is making magic phones.
Secure comms is that important.
I am fairly sure that 2006 era cellphones can't handle human-level intelligence either. The question is how much cyberdevils actually rely on hardware. They scale somewhat with it, but we don't know how much or in what way.
In any case, I believe right now our communications are sufficiently secure, and I am not actually naming our target. "Red Court noble" is a broad category.
- Location
- Earth
RSA exists since 1977.
JayTar
Idea briefcase
With decent cryptography knowledge it is possible to make encryption that is effectively unbreakable by mundane means.
While the field of magical cryptography is likely very underdeveloped (except perhaps in the 5 Fold Courts), it presents many novel approaches.
Like probability manipulation. You can make a key that would take billions of years to find, but it only takes billions of years to find on average. If you have the power to make one in a billion chances happen 90% of the time, then the decryption time could be similarly shortened.
If you are willing to mess with time, a short time loop could in theory be used to preform infinite computations. So if a message could be decrypted, it would be.
Even if you use a one time pad, would the encrypted forms of the messages "Don't attack" and "Start the attack" have the same mystical properties? Could you use thaumaturgy to figure out if the message is more associated with war or peace?
What happens if you look at an encrypted message with the sight? Sure it wouldn't tell you what it was word for word, but would it still give you information on what the message was conveying despite there being no possible physical or mathematical mechanism?
For proper secure communications your messages would have to be not just mathematically indistinguishable from random noise, they would have to be magically indistinguishable from random noise.
And of course no cryptosystem will protect you from the dreaded "somebody looking over your shoulder at the screen" attack. Broken Seeker showed that it is entirely possible to just have a hidden spy watching us and reporting back. So we need an effective way to ensure we don't have any invisible eavesdroppers nearby too.
While the field of magical cryptography is likely very underdeveloped (except perhaps in the 5 Fold Courts), it presents many novel approaches.
Like probability manipulation. You can make a key that would take billions of years to find, but it only takes billions of years to find on average. If you have the power to make one in a billion chances happen 90% of the time, then the decryption time could be similarly shortened.
If you are willing to mess with time, a short time loop could in theory be used to preform infinite computations. So if a message could be decrypted, it would be.
Even if you use a one time pad, would the encrypted forms of the messages "Don't attack" and "Start the attack" have the same mystical properties? Could you use thaumaturgy to figure out if the message is more associated with war or peace?
What happens if you look at an encrypted message with the sight? Sure it wouldn't tell you what it was word for word, but would it still give you information on what the message was conveying despite there being no possible physical or mathematical mechanism?
For proper secure communications your messages would have to be not just mathematically indistinguishable from random noise, they would have to be magically indistinguishable from random noise.
And of course no cryptosystem will protect you from the dreaded "somebody looking over your shoulder at the screen" attack. Broken Seeker showed that it is entirely possible to just have a hidden spy watching us and reporting back. So we need an effective way to ensure we don't have any invisible eavesdroppers nearby too.
That is a hard question to answer. On the one hand they they can take in vast amounts to data, as seen with the near instant internet searches, on the other when it comes to actual coding and programing they are about as skilled as an above average professional (5 dots). I am going to say that encryption falls on the latter side more than the former. If you want more than that get better hardware, or indeed wait until the person who has better hardware gets a sense of how the Internet works.
This is not true.
Encryption does not work that way.
Cant be handled with the hardware of the time.
3G uses a Kasumi cipher, with a 128-bit key and 64-bit encryption. Security researchers demonstrated vulnerabilities back in 2001, and broke it completely with a desktop PC in 2010.
In 2001, an impossible differential attack on six rounds of KASUMI was presented by Kühn (2001).[7]
In 2003 Elad Barkan, Eli Biham and Nathan Keller demonstrated man-in-the-middle attacks against the GSM protocol which avoided the A5/3 cipher and thus breaking the protocol. This approach does not attack the A5/3 cipher, however.[8] The full version of their paper was published later in 2006.[9]
In 2005, Israeli researchers Eli Biham, Orr Dunkelman and Nathan Keller published a related-key rectangle (boomerang) attack on KASUMI that can break all 8 rounds faster than exhaustive search.[10]The attack requires 254.6 chosen plaintexts, each of which has been encrypted under one of four related keys, and has a time complexity equivalent to 276.1 KASUMI encryptions. While this is obviously not a practical attack, it invalidates some proofs about the security of the 3GPP protocols that had relied on the presumed strength of KASUMI.
In 2010, Dunkelman, Keller and Shamir published a new attack that allows an adversary to recover a full A5/3 key by related-key attack.[5] The time and space complexities of the attack are low enough that the authors carried out the attack in two hours on an Intel Core 2 Duo desktop computer even using the unoptimized reference KASUMI implementation. The authors note that this attack may not be applicable to the way A5/3 is used in 3G systems; their main purpose was to discredit 3GPP's assurances that their changes to MISTY wouldn't significantly impact the security of the algorithm.
In 2003 Elad Barkan, Eli Biham and Nathan Keller demonstrated man-in-the-middle attacks against the GSM protocol which avoided the A5/3 cipher and thus breaking the protocol. This approach does not attack the A5/3 cipher, however.[8] The full version of their paper was published later in 2006.[9]
In 2005, Israeli researchers Eli Biham, Orr Dunkelman and Nathan Keller published a related-key rectangle (boomerang) attack on KASUMI that can break all 8 rounds faster than exhaustive search.[10]The attack requires 254.6 chosen plaintexts, each of which has been encrypted under one of four related keys, and has a time complexity equivalent to 276.1 KASUMI encryptions. While this is obviously not a practical attack, it invalidates some proofs about the security of the 3GPP protocols that had relied on the presumed strength of KASUMI.
In 2010, Dunkelman, Keller and Shamir published a new attack that allows an adversary to recover a full A5/3 key by related-key attack.[5] The time and space complexities of the attack are low enough that the authors carried out the attack in two hours on an Intel Core 2 Duo desktop computer even using the unoptimized reference KASUMI implementation. The authors note that this attack may not be applicable to the way A5/3 is used in 3G systems; their main purpose was to discredit 3GPP's assurances that their changes to MISTY wouldn't significantly impact the security of the algorithm.
The fact that we can magically install spirits on a phone does not turn a Nokia 3310 into an Iphone 14.
There are hard technological limitations to the hardware they are working with.
They need to transmit this stuff through the cellphone network, which also has technological limits about how much data it can handle per device, and the encryption is demonstrably insecure.
As in, researchers broke the encryption with an off-the-shelf personal PC by 2010.
Better performance in 2006 requires either our own personal phone network, which is unfeasible, or magic.
Hence the need for magic phones.
Last edited:
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
[X] Write in - "Fine then, DON'T hand him the phone. See the little button that looks like an old timey microphone? Press that, put me on speaker. We can ALL talk this out. "
-[X] Arrange a meeting later on neutral ground, like Mac's.
-[X] Explain that you are currently arranging a hit on a Red Court noble with what is at best can be called "an unreliable enemy of my enemy", and you'd rather not let the opportunity slip past.
-[X] Etiquette Excellency, ATB to read his voice
Did we actually use speaker phone as a stunt? Dear god, this quest has gone weird.
-[X] Arrange a meeting later on neutral ground, like Mac's.
-[X] Explain that you are currently arranging a hit on a Red Court noble with what is at best can be called "an unreliable enemy of my enemy", and you'd rather not let the opportunity slip past.
-[X] Etiquette Excellency, ATB to read his voice
Did we actually use speaker phone as a stunt? Dear god, this quest has gone weird.
JayTar
Idea briefcase
I would suggest that the best encryption our cyber devils could provide right now would be a simple one time pad. The fact that we frequently bring the cyber devils in close physical proximity gives them ample opportunity to exchange keys, and even old cell phones should have enough space to keep the key length needed for short conversations.
If anyone is curious:
One Time Pad
The TLDR is that as long as you have a shared key the same size as your plain text (and never use it more then once) you can have encryption that is literally impossible to break. (Without magic at least. Even magic would probably struggle with it more then most cryptosystems).
So we would probably have at least a couple hours (possibly more depending on how much storage space each phone has or if the cyber devil can use their own memory rather then the phones) of 100% secure communication with each phone before they have to switch over to some other algorithm. The time would be refreshed each time we bring the phones near each other.
If anyone is curious:
One Time Pad
The TLDR is that as long as you have a shared key the same size as your plain text (and never use it more then once) you can have encryption that is literally impossible to break. (Without magic at least. Even magic would probably struggle with it more then most cryptosystems).
So we would probably have at least a couple hours (possibly more depending on how much storage space each phone has or if the cyber devil can use their own memory rather then the phones) of 100% secure communication with each phone before they have to switch over to some other algorithm. The time would be refreshed each time we bring the phones near each other.