Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Even aside from the pure morality?

A reputation for killing prisoners does not help you.
Even on a purely pragmatic basis.
Aint noone gonna talk to you if they think you will shank them afterwards.

And like I've repeated, this is not the only naagloshii we are likely to deal with IRL.
It's a violently murderous and insane cannibal who cannot be reasoned with or trusted to keep to its word under any circumstances where it is not literally bound to do so by magic.

No one in this situation, except for maybe Michael, would take the time and effort to try to secure Hank before moving to save their friends.

The constant 'What Would Michael Do?' shit is getting old, dude. Yes, he's a great Human being and a major influence on Molly's life, but we're not playing Michael. We're playing Molly, and right now Molly knows that two of her closest friends are being held captive by an ancient monster who has elevated torture to such an art form that it has developed special powers specifically to make it maximally effective at inflicting suffering.

A reputation for killing prisoners might be bad, but a reputation for letting your friends get tortured to death isn't that great, either, and most of the beings who might learn about this incident aren't the type to view painlessly putting a Skinwalker down as a bad thing.

As for the other Skinwalkers? What does it matter if we kill this one? We're going to kill all of the others, too, unless they run far and fast and hide very, very well in a deep hole.
 
Why are you guys worried about holding him.

Its trivial to hold supernatural creatuers in dresden. Just pur them in a strong circle. They can't break them from the inside. It has held beings like the erlking, a shapeshifter isn't breaking out.

Circles are the real OP bullshit.
 
Why are you guys worried about holding him.

Its trivial to hold supernatural creatuers in dresden. Just pur them in a strong circle. They can't break them from the inside. It has held beings like the erlking, a shapeshifter isn't breaking out.

Circles are the real OP bullshit.
He's not really a supernatural creature. He's a mortal taught magic by a naagloshii. It's unlikely that a circle will hold him.
 
He's not really a supernatural creature. He's a mortal taught magic by a naagloshii. It's unlikely that a circle will hold him.
True.
A circle WILL cut off his supply of magical mojo though.
Or just running water.

I mean, he's supernaturally strong in notGarou form. Thats all.
Strong enough mundane chains will hold him. Nevermind the faerie bracelets used to bind wizards.
You just need to prevent him being able to cast anything else, and if you dont have the faerie bracelets, a circle and running water.
 
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It's a violently murderous and insane cannibal who cannot be reasoned with or trusted to keep to its word under any circumstances where it is not literally bound to do so by magic.

No one in this situation, except for maybe Michael, would take the time and effort to try to secure Hank before moving to save their friends.

The constant 'What Would Michael Do?' shit is getting old, dude. Yes, he's a great Human being and a major influence on Molly's life, but we're not playing Michael. We're playing Molly, and right now Molly knows that two of her closest friends are being held captive by an ancient monster who has elevated torture to such an art form that it has developed special powers specifically to make it maximally effective at inflicting suffering.

A reputation for killing prisoners might be bad, but a reputation for letting your friends get tortured to death isn't that great, either, and most of the beings who might learn about this incident aren't the type to view painlessly putting a Skinwalker down as a bad thing.

As for the other Skinwalkers? What does it matter if we kill this one? We're going to kill all of the others, too, unless they run far and fast and hide very, very well in a deep hole.
1) Not insane. Murderous cannibal yes.

2) Michael is Molly's Mentor 5.
What Would Michael Do is a fundamental consideration of Molly's morality in this quest, even when she doesnt follow it to the letter.
Its a lodestone. You cant hope to keep enjoying the benefits while acting like a warlord out of the Thirty Years War.

3)A reputation for killing prisoners will get your friends killed. Straight up.
People will refuse to surrender, or will go out of their way to spite you even when they gain nothing.
If dude had not talked, we'd have only had a single question to work with.
 
Okay, working plan.
====
[X]Plan Hunter Hunted
-[X]Ask Piotr to open a Way so you can use his satellite phone to call the Carpenter home, Last Station, Lydia, Harry, Thomas, Rosie.
-[X]Return to Bone Mountain in the NeverNever, carrying carriage and Hank with MHM. 30 minutes at full speed.
-[X]Hand Hank over to Monoc for temporary holding.
-[X]Tell cyberdevils to dig up social media pictures of Izzy and Alec, assuming Clippy doesnt have some already.
-[X]Use Rendered Villain Dispersal to return to Chicago: Bare Mountain, Hadley, MA > Enter Connecticut River > Enter Long Island Sound, North Atlantic Ocean at Old Lyme > Enter St Lawrence Seaway at Lake Ontario outflow > Chicago


STATUS
Essence: 14/15m Essence
Willpower: 8/9 Willpower

RATIONALE
We have 3 options
-Going forward to the Chicago Way
-Going back to Bare Mountain
-Getting out of the NeverNever here, in the Alps

Hank implies, and our Crown confirms, that the Way we used to enter and leave Chicago is under surveillance.
So we need to avoid it.

The other option of getting out of the Alps here risks running into a fight with hostiles(Blood Harpies???) of unknown strength and capabilities on our way to the open sea.
Also pass.

So go back to Bare Mountain.
The Connecticut River is less than three miles away from the mountain according to Google Maps. Once we enter it, we teleport to the Atlantic, then to the Great Lakes, and show up in Chicago in a minute or less.

And we avoid the watchers at the Ways, giving us some time unobserved to potentially take the naagloshii by surprise.

===
Going AFK for an hour or two; errands to run.
 
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Whatever we do, we should definitely bring a bunch of healing potions to this, assuming we have any banked up, and make some if we don't, in case Alec or Izzy get hurt before we get there, or during the fight.
 
You do not purchase spells but instead gather ingredients and perform a Sorcerous Working to rewrite your personal reality to allow yourself to cast spells.
What a way to learn magic.
If we do end up using this system* we need to involve Harry in this process. Just image the look on his face when Molly tells him she's going to "learn" how to cast a new spell by altering reality to make casting it how she wants to possible? :V


* Which does sound like a lot of fun to me, and makes the expensive sorcery charms more viable purchases. Though a number of those spells have questionable mechanics, and the spell casting in particular is wonky. Casting magic missile shouldn't be as difficult as the sorcerous working to make it possible.

Alter major metaphysical properties of a city-sized region: make it capable of moving across Creation, cause it to rise up and float in the sky, alter the nature of space within it so that it's bigger on the inside of its borders than the outside, meddle with the flow of time within it, make it invisible or intangible to those who do not meet certain conditions. Enchant a city-sized region or a group to change the nature of the afterlife for those who die within it, such as designating particulars of how they reincarnate or transforming the souls of the dead into elementals. Lay a potent curse on a city, region, or group of people that can only be broken when specific circumstances are met.
Not going to lie, the first thing I thought of was smashing our hell together with Chicago like a little kid playing with action figures. Either as a partial merging of worlds or "just" like how that one charm reshapes parts of the mortal world to permanently resemble and benefit you like a slice of your hell if you kill enough non CoD people in it.

Second was to make Chicago the minor talent capitol of the world by blessing the region so that anyone attempting to harm mortals loses the ability to sense any of them in any way in the bounds of the city. Making sure it extends to mortal on mortal violence would be a hoot too. Wouldn't solve everything, but it would be pretty helpful.

Probably a bad idea, but I find the thought of selling warding like that as a service funny too. Not for money, but what sort of favors do yogi think we'd get from Uncle Sam for warding DC such that you've got to be able to resist a "Molly and Archangel+ only" grade reality revision designed to serve the Library's core function?

It's probably too bullshit, but the idea of a solar circle effect that does something like "every time you act against a member of the mortal government or someone associated with them in this city, spend 1 willpower and roll against difficulty 9. On failure the character is sent straight to (Molly's) hell" is incredibly funny to
me.

A thought on this @DragonParadox ; you've mentioned we might be able to kitbash new ancient sorcery effects together later. Even if the spells section doesn't appeal as written the sorcerous working mechanics could be used to gate whatever you have in mind for that.

If you want to include the more free form stuff as well you could potentially make it part of this charm:

the pentaCle and the sCepter (••••)
The Infernal spends long hours in meditation on the time before time, the epoch before light and law first blighted the universe, and the remnant impossi- bilities of that strange and pitiless mythology. From the scraps of such madness, she may uncover the deeper
secrets of sorcery.
System: Upon purchasing this Charm, the Infer-
nal permanently lowers the cost of all ancient sorcery spells by 1 Essence (to a minimum of 1), and lowers the difficulty of all ancient sorcery rolls by one.
4 dots is a lot for what this does, but as something that in conjunction with merits like Brigid's heir, the crafting charm, and the exp spent on other forms of magic making it the gate for designing sorcerous workings could be reasonable.

The fluff even fits perfectly.
 
[] Hank seems to have taken his master's betrayal quite personally, maybe you could be allies... he is no worse than a Count of the Red Court and his band
How relatively bad the guy isn't as relevant as how crazy he is. Molly does care about the ethics, but even if we could justify it he's too psychotic to trust unless you've got a knife to his throat. Even then I think he'd test the edge, after what the Naagoloshii did to these guys he couldn't help himself.


Indeed. No way should we ally with him. Too unstable. I don't think we should kill him either - he's too mentally unstable to be considered fit to stand trial, I feel, and is in need of mental healing.

A rabid dog didn't ask to have rabies, but it's still a danger to everyone around it and can't practically be treated.

This guy is a threat to Molly's grade of combat ability. Trying to save him from himself when he doesn't want it is a lawful stupid level decision that will almost certainly end in tears.
More globally... Get into more debt with Odin and call for mercenary backup?
Being that dependent on them is a lot of leverage to provide Odin, and heavily implies we're incapable of handling ourselves to someone we'd prefer take us seriously.
fuck no we are literally giving them a free prisoner with valuable knowledge if anything they owe us. This makes us not only gullible and abusable but kind of stupid. We either kill him or they take the prisoner who likely has info they'll use.
Keeping a prisoner like that is work, and value is driven by context.

Looting this guy for knowledge is a nice bonus for them, but not something they need to do or is necessarily worth the trouble on its own.

More broadly, paying mercenaries with loot alone is like trying to get artists to work for exposure. Sure we provided the prisoner ourselves, but we'd still get laughed out of the room for suggesting something like that.
Dont play the Catholic girl and jump to the most expedient option at first blush.
This isn't cold blooded murder of someone at our mercy, it's a fight against someone legitimately able to kill us who's currently at a disadvantage. He's also violently insane and very difficult to keep contained, especially when we're on a timer like this.

If containment does fail then he's bound to hurt more people too.

Remember Charity's advice; kindness to people like this is often cruelty to their victims.
The idea odins people can't hold him is kind of ridiculous ngl.
Not at the drop of a hat like this. What, is Piotr supposed to keep this guy down till help arrives? Who do they have on hand that can handle it, because at this point we're talking about what's essentially a beefy wizard grade talent with personal training from a fairly powerful supernatural entity.

People who can safely hold that down without killing the target and keep them that way, to say nothing of the resources they use while doing so, aren't common.

They have them, but mobilizing them is a different matter.

Asking Odin to make a personal visit, even effectively on his own doorstep, is a pretty pricey thing because his time and effort is valuable. So the simplest solution here is also the one that costs the most for everyone involved.

Cause he's basically have to babysit until other containment measures are ready, potentially taking up a notable amount of his time.
Why are you guys worried about holding him.

Its trivial to hold supernatural creatuers in dresden. Just pur them in a strong circle. They can't break them from the inside. It has held beings like the erlking, a shapeshifter isn't breaking out.

Circles are the real OP bullshit.
That isn't how it works, or rather you're drastically oversimplifying it.

Making a powerful circle is an art unto itself, and binding things inside one while they want to get out can be complicated and energy intensive.

This is especially true for supernatural but martial entities, because you need a layered array of circles since different ones only block a single thing at a time. This was established in Fool Moon for the cursed shape shifter, who needs a dedicated set tuned to physical and magical power to keep held down.

That thing was mindless and still broke out.

This guy is a caster under all of this, a variety of mortal wizard. Which means unlike summoning particularly dumb demons he could credibly know the best ways to resist and escape from magical containment, making holding him harder.

Monoc probably can, but these things make the effort level and rarity of resources involved go up.
1) Not insane. Murderous cannibal yes.
The guy promised to eat Molly's heart while she had him telekinetically bound. A supernaturally effective sadist dragged his entire community into the spirit world and tortured them until they were reshaped into what we see here.

Maybe he's not totally out of touch with reality, but I wouldn't call him sane.

2) Michael is Molly's Mentor 5.
What Would Michael Do is a fundamental consideration of Molly's morality in this quest, even when she doesnt follow it to the letter.
Its a lodestone. You cant hope to keep enjoying the benefits while acting like a warlord out of the Thirty Years War.
Mentor 5 means he has influence, but what we take a what we leave aren't bound to whatever he'd most prefer. Mentorship isn't a blood oath to do only as your teacher would. Micheal and the white god are certainly not going to drop Molly for not completely conforming.

You're also presenting a false dichotomy here. The options aren't Micheal or Mongol Horde, and this isn't acting some obvious case of murdering for simple convenience.

Innocent lives are on the line, this guy is a threat who's demonstrated he could slip loose and make a credible attempt on Molly's life at least once under these exact conditions, and our only option for containment is a time consuming gamble which could have great personal consequences if it actually works.

Just getting Hank to Odin is a notable risk to Molly and the people who the Naagoloshii is hunting right now.

Supposing we do get him there, and Monoc can hold him on short notice at a price we're willing to pay, we could still end up with one or more people being tortured for entertainment like what happened with Thomas by the time we get back into town.


[X] Kill Hank as efficiently as you can, the world is a better place without his madness and you need to get back home
 
How relatively bad the guy isn't as relevant as how crazy he is. Molly does care about the ethics, but even if we could justify it he's too psychotic to trust unless you've got a knife to his throat. Even then I think he'd test the edge, after what the Naagoloshii did to these guys he couldn't help himself.




A rabid dog didn't ask to have rabies, but it's still a danger to everyone around it and can't practically be treated.

This guy is a threat to Molly's grade of combat ability. Trying to save him from himself when he doesn't want it is a lawful stupid level decision that will almost certainly end in tears.

Being that dependent on them is a lot of leverage to provide Odin, and heavily implies we're incapable of handling ourselves to someone we'd prefer take us seriously.

Keeping a prisoner like that is work, and value is driven by context.

Looting this guy for knowledge is a nice bonus for them, but not something they need to do or is necessarily worth the trouble on its own.

More broadly, paying mercenaries with loot alone is like trying to get artists to work for exposure. Sure we provided the prisoner ourselves, but we'd still get laughed out of the room for suggesting something like that.

This isn't cold blooded murder of someone at our mercy, it's a fight against someone legitimately able to kill us who's currently at a disadvantage. He's also violently insane and very difficult to keep contained, especially when we're on a timer like this.

If containment does fail then he's bound to hurt more people too.

Remember Charity's advice; kindness to people like this is often cruelty to their victims.

Not at the drop of a hat like this. What, is Piotr supposed to keep this guy down till help arrives? Who do they have on hand that can handle it, because at this point we're talking about what's essentially a beefy wizard grade talent with personal training from a fairly powerful supernatural entity.

People who can safely hold that down without killing the target and keep them that way, to say nothing of the resources they use while doing so, aren't common.

They have them, but mobilizing them is a different matter.

Asking Odin to make a personal visit, even effectively on his own doorstep, is a pretty pricey thing because his time and effort is valuable. So the simplest solution here is also the one that costs the most for everyone involved.

Cause he's basically have to babysit until other containment measures are ready, potentially taking up a notable amount of his time.

That isn't how it works, or rather you're drastically oversimplifying it.

Making a powerful circle is an art unto itself, and binding things inside one while they want to get out can be complicated and energy intensive.

This is especially true for supernatural but martial entities, because you need a layered array of circles since different ones only block a single thing at a time. This was established in Fool Moon for the cursed shape shifter, who needs a dedicated set tuned to physical and magical power to keep held down.

That thing was mindless and still broke out.

This guy is a caster under all of this, a variety of mortal wizard. Which means unlike summoning particularly dumb demons he could credibly know the best ways to resist and escape from magical containment, making holding him harder.

Monoc probably can, but these things make the effort level and rarity of resources involved go up.

The guy promised to eat Molly's heart while she had him telekinetically bound. A supernaturally effective sadist dragged his entire community into the spirit world and tortured them until they were reshaped into what we see here.

Maybe he's not totally out of touch with reality, but I wouldn't call him sane.


Mentor 5 means he has influence, but what we take a what we leave aren't bound to whatever he'd most prefer. Mentorship isn't a blood oath to do only as your teacher would. Micheal and the white god are certainly not going to drop Molly for not completely conforming.

You're also presenting a false dichotomy here. The options aren't Micheal or Mongol Horde, and this isn't acting some obvious case of murdering for simple convenience.

Innocent lives are on the line, this guy is a threat who's demonstrated he could slip loose and make a credible attempt on Molly's life at least once under these exact conditions, and our only option for containment is a time consuming gamble which could have great personal consequences if it actually works.

Just getting Hank to Odin is a notable risk to Molly and the people who the Naagoloshii is hunting right now.

Supposing we do get him there, and Monoc can hold him on short notice at a price we're willing to pay, we could still end up with one or more people being tortured for entertainment like what happened with Thomas by the time we get back into town.


[X] Kill Hank as efficiently as you can, the world is a better place without his madness and you need to get back home
I mean your kind of assuming they don't have ready made prisons? They've been around in limited power as an organization at least before the U.S. I think.
 
Casting magic missile shouldn't be as difficult as the sorcerous working to make it possible.
To clarify. Casting spells is you roll will + Essence at difficulty 9. Charms like BSM and CCC apply. So there are ways to lower that.

Even otherwise, you need only 1 sux to cast it and more sux makes the spells better. At the end of the day Sorcery is reality warping so the difficulty and for balance reasons.

4 dots is a lot for what this does, but as something that in conjunction with merits like Brigid's heir, the crafting charm, and the exp spent on other forms of magic making it the gate for designing sorcerous workings could be reasonable.
Actually modified that Charm.

The Pentacle and the Scepter (••••)
The Infernal spends long hours in meditation on the time before time, the epoch before light and law first blighted the universe, and the remnant impossi- bilities of that strange and pitiless mythology. From the scraps of such madness, she may uncover the deeper
secrets of sorcery.

System: Upon purchasing this Charm, the Infer-
nal permanently lowers the cost of all ancient sorcery rolls by 1 Non Magic or Magic Reagent (to a minimum of 1), and lowers the difficulty of all ancient sorcery rolls by one.

So the reagents needed for a First Circle and Third Circle roll are reduced by 1. While it cannot do away with the need for a Magic Reagent in a Second Circle roll (Minimum 1) it can reduce the number of non magic reagents to 1.
 
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Mentor 5 means he has influence, but what we take a what we leave aren't bound to whatever he'd most prefer. Mentorship isn't a blood oath to do only as your teacher would. Micheal and the white god are certainly not going to drop Molly for not completely conforming.

You're also presenting a false dichotomy here. The options aren't Micheal or Mongol Horde, and this isn't acting some obvious case of murdering for simple convenience.

Innocent lives are on the line, this guy is a threat who's demonstrated he could slip loose and make a credible attempt on Molly's life at least once under these exact conditions, and our only option for containment is a time consuming gamble which could have great personal consequences if it actually works.
Exactly this.
I mean your kind of assuming they don't have ready made prisons? They've been around in limited power as an organization at least before the U.S. I think.
And you are assuming that they do have such ready made prisons. Not only that they have them, but that one of them is nearby and easily accessible. And that they have free space with the exact countermeasures necessary to contain a Skinwalker.

Even if Monoc maintains such prisons all over the whole freaking planet, fully staffed and rated for holding everything from Garden Gnomes to Super Saiyans, and that Piotr can easily call them up and get permission for using their secret teleportation network no one else on Earth can use, if all of this takes even 30 seconds longer than simply killing Hank and moving on, then that's 30 seconds wasted.
 
Monoc probably can, but these things make the effort level and rarity of resources involved go up.
It goes up from using a stick to draw a circle to more extensive circle with runes or something or layered circles.

Fundamentally circles are really simple. Put a circle of cold iron and you can hold any fae or a circle of silver and most shapeshifter get fucked.


Its not difficult just requires a bit of setup, which monoc almost certainly has set up.
 
[X] Hank seems to have taken his master's betrayal quite personally, maybe you could be allies... he is no worse than a Count of the Red Court and his band

Let him live. He seems more pissed at the skinwalker than us, and probably won't turn on us until after the skinwalker's dead. If he helps and wants to just leave after, I'm fine with that (unless we find out he has a horrible track record). If he turns on us after, we can kill him then. Having a Rage-abusing cannon fodder will help us out given how many cannon fodder the skinwalker has already.
 
It goes up from using a stick to draw a circle to more extensive circle with runes or something or layered circles.

Fundamentally circles are really simple. Put a circle of cold iron and you can hold any fae or a circle of silver and most shapeshifter get fucked.


Its not difficult just requires a bit of setup, which monoc almost certainly has set up.
I'll note most of those don't work on humans. I'm not sure skinchangers are still humans at this level but just being evil isn't enough to not make you humanish.
 
To clarify. Casting spells is you roll will + Essence at difficulty 9. Charms like BSM and CCC apply. So there are ways to lower that.

Even otherwise, you need only 1 sux to cast it and more sux makes the spells better. At the end of the day Sorcery is reality warping so the difficulty and for balance reasons.
Yeah I get it, I just don't think the base difficulty should be 9 for every spell. You warp reality to permanently make doing something supernatural possible -or at least easier- but a concussion blast that's worse than the hellfire path is just as hard as tearing apart space or making force fields?

Balance is all well and good, but the effort required to get some of these to do anything is in significant excess of their value and injects nonsense into the narrative around what you're doing with it.

Actually modified that Charm.
Are you suggesting this or is this part of the source of what you posted?

Either way I think for this game we'd need to explain how Molly got the ability to use the system if we did use it, and gate it behind exp costs since it's a significant ability to get at random for free.

I mean your kind of assuming they don't have ready made prisons? They've been around in limited power as an organization at least before the U.S. I think.
In addition to what Goldfish said, someone making/maintaining those prisons is still effort, using them would still have an energy cost, and just having him in there would mean they couldn't use it for what they usually do.

We're talking about a significant infrastructure investment, Monoc could afford it, but they're not a prison. Why would they spend the resources to make a bunch of containment cells and then have them sit around empty all the time?
It goes up from using a stick to draw a circle to more extensive circle with runes or something or layered circles.

Fundamentally circles are really simple. Put a circle of cold iron and you can hold any fae or a circle of silver and most shapeshifter get fucked.


Its not difficult just requires a bit of setup, which monoc almost certainly has set up.
No, you're wrong about this.

You can try things with simple circles, but the less effort and resources you put into it the less effective your leverage is and the easier a time the creature inside has screwing with it.

In the Fool Moon case containing a cursed shapeshifter involved multiple circles in an array with various runic elements, silver, gems, and other expensive working materials.

The reason for this specific setup was that circles block one thing at a time. If you set it to stop magic any physical thing that isn't nevernever goo can cross and disrupt it.

If you set it for physical force then anyone with supernatural power can cast over or at it freely.

If you put a physical blocker inside a magic blocker to keep the critter inside from doing that you cut yourself off from the inner layer and the inner circle from external power.

Making that work required some hard to come by knowledge Dresden was unwilling to share.

You don't usually have that specific problem with pure spirits, but pretty much any time Dresden summons anything in the books he mentions that you should really only do that sort of this with a dedicated ritual and containment system and that you're taking your life in your hands if you don't.

They can and will directly fight you against the leverage of your containment setup, and if you or it don't measure up blow through by main force to do whatever they want.


[X] Hank seems to have taken his master's betrayal quite personally, maybe you could be allies... he is no worse than a Count of the Red Court and his band

Let him live. He seems more pissed at the skinwalker than us, and probably won't turn on us until after the skinwalker's dead. If he helps and wants to just leave after, I'm fine with that (unless we find out he has a horrible track record). If he turns on us after, we can kill him then. Having a Rage-abusing cannon fodder will help us out given how many cannon fodder the skinwalker has already.
He eats people. That heart threat wasn't embellishment, it's part of his magical tradition and a something we know his group causes themselves trouble with hunting down Native American practitioners.

Also, if her flips from the threat of violence once who's to say he won't do it again? His hate isn't much of a guarantee.
 
Yeah I get it, I just don't think the base difficulty should be 9 for every spell. You warp reality to permanently make doing something supernatural possible -or at least easier- but a concussion blast that's worse than the hellfire path is just as hard as tearing apart space or making force fields?

Balance is all well and good, but the effort required to get some of these to do anything is in significant excess of their value and injects nonsense into the narrative around what you're doing with it. Assuming they don't have at least cells for shit like skinwalker much less lesser skin changers seems just stupid.


Are you suggesting this or is this part of the source of what you posted?

Either way I think for this game we'd need to explain how Molly got the ability to use the system if we did use it, and gate it behind exp costs since it's a significant ability to get at random for free.


In addition to what Goldfish said, someone making/maintaining those prisons is still effort, using them would still have an energy cost, and just having him in there would mean they couldn't use it for what they usually do.

We're talking about a significant infrastructure investment, Monoc could afford it, but they're not a prison. Why would they spend the resources to make a bunch of containment cells and then have them sit around empty all the time?

No, you're wrong about this.

You can try things with simple circles, but the less effort and resources you put into it the less effective your leverage is and the easier a time the creature inside has screwing with it.

In the Fool Moon case containing a cursed shapeshifter involved multiple circles in an array with various runic elements, silver, gems, and other expensive working materials.

The reason for this specific setup was that circles block one thing at a time. If you set it to stop magic any physical thing that isn't nevernever goo can cross and disrupt it.

If you set it for physical force then anyone with supernatural power can cast over or at it freely.

If you put a physical blocker inside a magic blocker to keep the critter inside from doing that you cut yourself off from the inner layer and the inner circle from external power.

Making that work required some hard to come by knowledge Dresden was unwilling to share.

You don't usually have that specific problem with pure spirits, but pretty much any time Dresden summons anything in the books he mentions that you should really only do that sort of this with a dedicated ritual and containment system and that you're taking your life in your hands if you don't.

They can and will directly fight you against the leverage of your containment setup, and if you or it don't measure up blow through by main force to do whatever they want.



He eats people. That heart threat wasn't embellishment, it's part of his magical tradition and a something we know his group causes themselves trouble with hunting down Native American practitioners.

Also, if her flips from the threat of violence once who's to say he won't do it again? His hate isn't much of a guarantee.
I think your making a lot of assumptions when its very likely odin is the one who taught merlin who made demonreach. You know the place where skinwalker are the least powerful inmates. I'm fairly sure there are things in there that likely make Mab look like a joke in the higher security levels.
 
Like this assumes odin and his people as a whole even consider things like skinwalkers a major threat as an organization even if they do for mooks. When I'd assume they've dealt with things hundreds of times more scary over the years.
 
Finally back.
No vote?
This isn't cold blooded murder of someone at our mercy, it's a fight against someone legitimately able to kill us who's currently at a disadvantage. He's also violently insane and very difficult to keep contained, especially when we're on a timer like this.
If containment does fail then he's bound to hurt more people too.

Remember Charity's advice; kindness to people like this is often cruelty to their victims.
This isnt true.
The fight has happened, and he lost it; he burned his own life force for extra Rage, and still lost it. We didnt even activate any of our armor charms, just a Melee Excellency.

And there is zero indication that he's insane.
He's already down 1 Agg HL, which will take at least a day to heal and taking off a hand would simultaneously render him incapable of transforming into a flighted form, and reduce his health further, with wound penalties.

It IS cold-blooded murder of a prisoner who we currently hold at our mercy.

He is currently a prisoner who we just interrogated for information, and that usually comes with implicit guarantees among civilized people. And we would be murdering him in full view of the spirits who are markedly silent in the vicinity, so word WILL get about, and people will be much less willing to offer surrender or negotiations.

The guy promised to eat Molly's heart while she had him telekinetically bound. A supernaturally effective sadist dragged his entire community into the spirit world and tortured them until they were reshaped into what we see here.
Maybe he's not totally out of touch with reality, but I wouldn't call him sane.
Yes?
Shit talking is something that a lot of entirely normal humans will do in captivity against captors with guns to their heads.
HARRY does it. It's bluster; it might not be wise, but its entirely normal human behavior.

Whether or not he's fixable is not something we can determine here.
Mentor 5 means he has influence, but what we take a what we leave aren't bound to whatever he'd most prefer. Mentorship isn't a blood oath to do only as your teacher would. Micheal and the white god are certainly not going to drop Molly for not completely conforming.

You're also presenting a false dichotomy here. The options aren't Micheal or Mongol Horde, and this isn't acting some obvious case of murdering for simple convenience.

Innocent lives are on the line, this guy is a threat who's demonstrated he could slip loose and make a credible attempt on Molly's life at least once under these exact conditions, and our only option for containment is a time consuming gamble which could have great personal consequences if it actually works.

Just getting Hank to Odin is a notable risk to Molly and the people who the Naagoloshii is hunting right now.

Supposing we do get him there, and Monoc can hold him on short notice at a price we're willing to pay, we could still end up with one or more people being tortured for entertainment like what happened with Thomas by the time we get back into town.
Mentorship is the sort of thing that carries obligations both ways. You cant simultaneously indulge in serial murder and have an individual representative of a faction known for virture to mentor you, for a hypothetical example.

We have been benefitting a lot from the implicit social bonuses among respectable society that being the mentee of a Knight of the Cross brings. We'd have had shit a lot harder with humans and light side factions walking around as an archdevil without that link.
And I fail to see how executing a prisoner is the sort of thing that wont have repercussions.

No it isnt.
We should be going back to the Bare Mountain and taking an alternative path to Chicago, because going to a Way that we know is under hostile watch is frankly stupid, especially given as hostilities have begun.
I'll note most of those don't work on humans. I'm not sure skinchangers are still humans at this level but just being evil isn't enough to not make you humanish.
It doesnt stop them from moving, but it does prevent them from channelling magic from the environment.
 
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And you are assuming that they do have such ready made prisons. Not only that they have them, but that one of them is nearby and easily accessible. And that they have free space with the exact countermeasures necessary to contain a Skinwalker.

Even if Monoc maintains such prisons all over the whole freaking planet, fully staffed and rated for holding everything from Garden Gnomes to Super Saiyans, and that Piotr can easily call them up and get permission for using their secret teleportation network no one else on Earth can use, if all of this takes even 30 seconds longer than simply killing Hank and moving on, then that's 30 seconds wasted.
Yes, I'd put money on it. They are mercs; being able to detain PoWs for intelligence-gathering is literally part of their jobs.
And they had no lack of magical specialists to set up
Odin trained the original Merlin; he's field troops will have all they need.

I mean, seriously. Odin is not spending effort on acquiring light tanks if he cant hold PoWs.


Its not a complicated process. Nicodemus, who isnt a wizard, was able to kludge up a magic cell in an abandoned building with a circle and running water during Death Rites. Madrigal Raith was able to imprison Dresden with a pair of magic handcuffs that he carried around with him, and he's no wizard either.

Monoc mercenaries in their own base, with their own weapon and vehicle dumps? WILL have containment resources.


That is not true.
We should be going back to Bare Mountain to avoid being surveilled near the Chicago, so dropping him off with Monoc does not require us going out of our way.

Furthermore?
He's a sorcerer; we dont know if he's strong enough to throw a death curse as he dies. And not just at Molly, which is a big enough risk as it stands; throwing it at Molly's friends is also an alternative possibility, and one which would work better at spiting us.
 
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