- Location
- washington
Funnily I looked at the votes thought it was wrong too and then gaslit myself thinking nah I'm probably just reading it wrong. No way dp would make that kind of mistake after all.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- washington
You know you say this and I agree. But, I do think fiction sort of exaggerates power vacuums and how much things can really just be easily inserted into said vacuums. It could be filled multiple times though but not filled again and again and again and again and again and again. Probably.
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This isn't so much about power vacuums in a grand sense as it is that demand will find supply.
Drug addicts won't stop trying to get drugs, and small time pimps aren't going to call corporate to make sure their crime license was approved before opening a 'massage parlor'. It's the same endless tide it's always been.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Why do we care at all about Marcone right now? I say we focus on the supernatural factions preying on mankind before worrying about the mundane crime. If Marcone makes an issue of himself then thats another matter entirely, but for now we literally have bigger things to worry about.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We could then make maggot meals to replace all addictions with one that has less side effects. However I agree with other posters that worries about power vacuums in the city criminal world are overblown.
- Location
- washington
well yeah I'm just saying its often exaggerated like for example if you kill them all the vacuum isn't gonna continue to be filled at least not that much. But, a lot of fiction suggests that it would be filled sometimes even efficiently. Not that we can do this without resorting to some kind of supernatural totalitarian regime. Which we shouldn't do.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
The concern isn't so much the power vacuum left when Marcone is gone, but rather who will seek to fill it, and what kind of scruples they may or may not have. And how many people we might have to kill after he's gone until someone we seem suitable finally rises to control the criminal underworld.
We aren't ever going to eliminate crime in Chicago, and we have better things to do with our time than try. At least Marcone has some well-defined lines he refuses to cross, and he enforces those same lines on everyone even tangentially related to his organization. While Marcone is not a good man, he is definitely competent and smart, plus he has both common sense and a level head, even when dealing with the supernatural.
So just feed every addict in the 9 million+ population of the Chicago metro area alone magical maggots that sustain no more than essence level X 100 people?
Just find them all on an ongoing basis, dope them up, fill all our backlog of other addicts, then move on with our day?
Every step of this is a separate Herculean undertaking that you're hand waving, and it doesn't even get into the issues if someone notices and objects.
If we sat down and focused on solving this issue and others like it I'm sure we could work our way to some sort of viable change, but we're talking about complex problems present on massive scales.
The solutions to them are almost certainly going to be epic efforts on our part and major sinks of time and resources, not things where we just throw charms around and coast our way into victory.
Marcone would also actually be quite happy to pass on info about supernatural troublemakers though I suspect.
Ironically, Molly is actually extremely well positioned for that sort of thing in general simply because in addition to being persuasive she's also a subject matter expert on the afterlife.
I'm not contending that the whole power back thing is really the main issue in the sense that a cartel or something will move in.
Thing is, if you don't change the forces involved you'll get the same outcome with different faces in short order.
Drugs are a good example for this. You kill off the dealers or whatever and the customers are still addicted. They'll go looking for sources and if none are available start making their own substitutes. Because of the shortages anyone who can do so has a huge financial to sell as well, turning into mess of little suppliers who have no common thread and aren't necessarily visible from the outside until after they've been rolling for a while.
Other vices will behave in similar ways.
This isn't to say there's no point in trying to fix things or enforcing laws, but if this sort of problem could be solved by finding bad guys to shoot they would have been solved a long time ago.
If you want to get rid of drugs and such crime spend the 9xp on Expression, and be able to instill a desire to stamp out crime in the entire cities population. Crime is a lot harder when even the most random person will tip off the police, and a lot of your lower level people in mass turn themselves in, and you cannot replace them.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Some afterlife's we promised not to look into the white god's heaven.
- Location
- washington
Well I understand what you mean but I somewhat disagree genocide would solve the problem of drugs if you kill enough. Now it'd create a worse problem in that its well genocide but it does fix the previous problem! So at a certain point killing does solve the problem. Just you know very immoral and messed up new problem in its place.
Yeah, this is the kind of problem that you solve slowly and bottom up, not in one stroke and from the top.
You want to remove the reasons why people turn to drug in the first place to remove drugs for good, and that's way more of an undertaking than simply killing the guy on top and calling it a day.
You have to remove poverty, cure addictions, offer jobs, and lots and lots of societal changes.
Prostitution as a crime is however *easier* to solve: legalize it, simplify getting the authorization for it and make society recognize it as a respectable job.
Well, ok, maybe not easier, definitely simpler because you don't have to deal with addictions and the fact that drugs are actually dangerous to people.
If the *massage parlor* don't have to jump through loops and can sell what it actually is while being legal and still profiting, then there is no reasons to turn to crime to do it.
But that requires a change at the state or national level….
Vote closed, lets see how you handle this?
- Location
- Germany
Lucky that we have such high WP, but we should definitly still activate IPM soon.
Before the combat at the latest point, a desperate Whampire is more likely to use Dominate or Presence in desperation than physical attacks.
Before the combat at the latest point, a desperate Whampire is more likely to use Dominate or Presence in desperation than physical attacks.
Arc 8 Post 23: On the Garden Path
On the Garden Path
13th of November 2006 A.D.
"Oh? Have you now?" You feel rather than see the weight of Lydia's presence beside you as you bend the weight of your attention on this man, senses occult and mundane sharpening even as the porticullis of your mind slammed down. You arch an eyebrow at the man, an invitation to share, to demonstrate the breath of his knowledge."Only memorable things I hope."
Lost one Willpower -> Now at at 8/9
Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 14/15
"Certainly, Lady Raith only invites the most, interesting of guests to these affairs." The way he emphasizes the last word makes your skin crawl in a way wholly apart from any arcane perils. "Odd that she did not invite your new associates: Jacques, Andrea and William and ah... Isabela was it?" It takes a moment to realize he named all four of the vampires sworn to you, using the names they had been given rather than the ones they preferred in the case of two of them. "Really it has been such a relief to hear that some of those lost will soon rejoin society. One might even compare it to the parable of the prodigal son. Does that make you an angel I wonder?"
The aura you can see wrapped around him proves as oily as his words, a thing half seen and blurry, not that you are entirely sure you want to see deeper. The ruby-red of lust spreads and pools shot through with lines of green flame wiggling like maggots in flesh, obsession. Strangest of all their heads burn... gold. Even having never seen the color with this sight before you instinctively know it to be the fruit of deep insight, spiritual insight, revelation. To see it bloom from such unwholesome stock makes your stomach clench, to see it gleam in eyes that are so utterly fixed upon you makes you want to reconsider bowling him over.
"Lady Raith's choices are sacrosanct in her own home. I would not dream of presuming upon her hospitality, though perhaps one such as yourself, closer to her heart and her counsels would be afforded the privilege."
Titters and laughs can be heard all around, like the calls of some strange nocturnal birds. After all a vampire of the White Court might be warded off by the presence of greater power, but rarely out of earshot of interesting gossip, such as the heir of one of the three Houses being schooled by a seeming-mortal in the etiquette of his own people.
"I was merely speculating, hoping that you would have a satisfactory answer. It is clear now that I was mistaken." With that the tall grey vampire starts to sweep off like a particularly offended bat.
To push my luck or not to push? You wonder. This is the first time something had been veiled from your inner eye and what you had been able to glimpse had been disturbing, but on the other hand it would be starting a spat with the House you did not come here to help trim down to size/ For all you know there could be some secret Malvora lore that happens to guard from such as you and Vittorio just.. has the hots for you. Wierd way to show it maybe, for most people, but in the hothouse of lies and betrayal that is the White Court one could imagine threats and flirting are not that far off.
What do you do?
[] Try to push, find out where he knows the name of your vampires from
[] Go speak to someone else in the crowd
-[] Leinth
-[] A dark haired vampire with a familiar resemblance to Thomas who seems to have found your put down particularly funny
[] Greet Lara
[] Write in
OOC: A bit of a short update while I get back into the swing of things, but also since you got a better read of Vitto than I was expecting just with Helscy and ATB.
Rolls
Hellscry
Discipline Eating your successes
Molly Charisma+Etiquette
Vampire Retort (He is not a social build as far as White Court Vampires go, but he is the heir to one of the Houses which means he gets +2 specialty dice in this)
Hellscry
Discipline Eating your successes
Molly Charisma+Etiquette
Vampire Retort (He is not a social build as far as White Court Vampires go, but he is the heir to one of the Houses which means he gets +2 specialty dice in this)
Would the big boss outsiders consider Molly a peer or the equivalent of a child in whatever kind of eldritch society they have? I'm not sure how the really powerful outsiders relate to the primordials in this story…
Interesting that the enlightenment mechanic is even a thing for whamps at all. It's certainly something to keep in mind when we have VEE. I'm not totally clear on the mechanics for vampire enlightenment, but it does do something to their feeding right? Maybe giving fledglings a leg up on that path before their first feeding would be enough to get them through it without killing anyone.
Unfortunately for them being an exalt means that we can parry the coat hook when they try to abort us where an actual primordial in the process of forming might not be able to defend itself.
Probably something closer to a baby/fetus than a peer. A proper primordial is definitely something they'd have to take seriously, but an infernal takes a while to fully develop along those lines.
Unfortunately for them being an exalt means that we can parry the coat hook when they try to abort us where an actual primordial in the process of forming might not be able to defend itself.
What Molly is seeing is the feeling of religious revelation not any specific form of spiritual enlightenment, the fact that it is growing out of lust/obsession moderately creepy.
My apologies for any annoyance caused.
But I disagree.
We voted to interact with interesting people, and fish for information.
The point of this entire thing was for us to pick the target we wanted to interact with. We could mouth meaningless pufferies and move on from Vito; Leinth was specifically pointed out as a different target.
But coming the heavy without provocation, after an apparently courteous greeting would actively make it harder for us to interact with other Whamps who are already spooked by the archdevil in human skin that just showed up with a scion of Death in tow.
This is a social event; noone is compelled to talk to us.
Thats my two cents.
COMMENTARY
Interesting note about how his agent promptly dumped his phone once he realized Molly was involved, and a warning to us about spreading around how easily we can use HMP.
We probably want to establish alternate routes to Undertown that dont pass through his warehouse.
A little surprised he didnt consider the possible influence of both Dresden and Michael on our decisionmaking.
The very Catholic Knight of the Cross, and the wizard who has held opposition to Marcone's business as essentially an article of faith since they first met.
I dont think he wants to draw the sort of aggro we are looking to attract.
The FBI hexenwulfen almost arranged to have him killed by the loup garou in Fool Moon. The Denarians almost killed him just as a side effect of laying a trap for the Archive in Small Favor.
Doubt we can.
Dude used to be a Marine before he deliberately came here.
Whatever is driving him, its not simple or easy.
And frankly, there are the realities of his crime business, where there's always a bunch of people pushing for advantage
In Storm Front, Victor Sells was looking to take over and kill him, and one of his bodyguards sold him out.
In Fool Moon, the FBI wolves were trying to murder him, and the motorcycle gang came in from out of town to pose a challenge when he was still growing his power.
In Even Hand, he executed two of three men sent from Boston by another organized crime outfit to set up an operation in his city in a direct challenge.In Small Favor, Torelli, one of his sub-bosses promptly tried to stage a palace coup as soon as the Denarians grabbed him.
In Aftermath, one of his in-house enforcers was gathering evidence prior to murdering a housing superintendent who was breaking the rules about drug trafficking and cheating Marcone.
Running a large organized crime operation involves constantly walking a tightrope, and there's a need, a willingness to kill or maim as necessary, and to be seen to do so, because lessons only last so long, and there's always a new batch of bozos looking to see if you've lost your edge.
Thats the reality of a lot of organized crime; the credible threat of force is always just under the surface.
Point of correction:
Some of our guys were guilty of being cannibals; the older ones at least.
Especially when they were still working for the Red Court, and bodies needed disposal.
As a group of autonomous ghouls in Undertown, long pork isnt quite so easy to come by.
There genuinely isnt that much meat in a 70 kilogram human carcass.
Subtract 10% for blood, 15% for bone, and you're already down to ~53kg, and we havent even gotten rid of the digestive tract and its contents. And we're talking a human subspecies that can allegedly scarf down up to fifty pounds of meat in a sitting.
Unnecessary when we're investing in a Hell and can literally toss people in jail.
Cant get rid of violent crime anyway; can only restrict its scope, within reason.
No we cant. Not easily, and not well.
Marcone is a heroic mortal who clawed his way from foot soldier to head of Chicago's organized crime. He's the sort of person who took Denarian confinement and torture for three days running during the events of Small Favor and didnt break.
They dont grow on trees nor are they easy to change.
Furthermore, we dont have any interest in giving our enemies a new attack surface to exploit.
Running an organized crime outfit would close a bunch of doors for us with regards to law enforcement and a fair fraction of the world. And it would give our enemies an easy, cheap way to fuck with us, just by funnelling information to law enforcement.
Marcone spent years dodging the Feds.
Not to mention that Molly sure as fuck does not have the stomach to execute people or smash their kneecaps or threaten their loved ones for infractions.
Also this.
Mafia bosses dont take holidays or sabbaticals; they are on the job 24/7/365.
Molly aint got time for that.
^^^
1)He didnt burst our intimidation bubble; we chose to engage.
We could have gone around and ignored him to the same effect; we could have literally flown over his head if we wanted to make an ostentatious point of ignoring him.
2) We chose to engage to gather information.
Intimidating someone into backing off doesnt actually do very much in the way of making them spill information.
Especially when they are free to walk away, and supernatural etiquette means we have to let him.
3)He's Malvora Heir, and son of Lady Cesarina Malvor, House Malvora Ruler.
He's already a political power here, at least in his generation. A single lost social exchange might be embarassing, but it does nothing to actually affect his power.
Especially since he is gathering information for his various allegiances, in the one place where he might be able to do so safely.
And walking away IS an option for Whites in social combat.
Madrigal Raith did it in his first encounter with Dresden. Lord Skavis did it in White Night when his heir didnt show up to back up his claims. Even Lara has backed down in the face of Shagnasty and Ebenezar McCoy.
Force majeure is a defense.
No we cant.
Crime is a social phenomenon. It doesnt just go away because you attacked a couple gangs; others rise in their place.
And its not just career criminals who have to crime to make a living, there are also posers, and thrillseekers, and people who enjoy holding power over others.
Because crime is usually the first way that a lot of expansionist supernatural powers gain a foothold in a region.
Before Dresden immolated Bianca St Claire's seethe at the climax of Grave Peril, the Red Court ran a good chunk of the sex trade in Chicago; a point of enmity between her and Thomas was that she wanted Justine for the Velvet Room, but Thomas got to her first. After Dresden killed them off, Marcone took over, and in doing so, has kept others out.
The Red Court notoriously has its fingers in the cartels south of the US border, and in a chunk of crime activities in the US reaching up into Las Vegas.
And thats just the Reds.
When the Black Council first made a move on Chicago in Storm Front, they used Victor Sells, a warlock who started by muscling in on the drug trade. When they tried again in Fool Moon, they used renegade FBI agents. When the Shroud of Turin was stolen in Death Masks, it was by professional thieves.
When the Kemmlerites were after the Word of Kemmler in Dead Beat, they used a professional criminal and smuggler.
When Ariana Ortega was looking to distract Dresden in Changes, she hired professional hitmen.
When the Fomor started their campaign of kidnappings and murders between Ghost Story and Peace Talks, they used a lot of criminals. And some corrupt cops. When Nicky wanted to go rob Hades in Skin Games, he needed to hire a professional thief.
We dont want to run the crime world. Its actively harmful to our interests to do so.
But we are obliged to keep an eye on things at that end, before something grows its strength in the crime world, crawls out of the deep waters and bites us.
Addiction Statistics - Data on Addiction in the United States
General Addiction Statistics According to the National Center for Drug Abuse Statistics (NCDAS), nearly half of all people 12 and older in the United States have used an illicit substance at least once. Below are some facts and statistics about just how prevalent substance abuse and addiction...
www.addictionhelp.com
Lemme explain the scope of the problem.
Molly produces Essence*100 weeklong meals per use of the Maggot charm. At E3, that's 300 per use.
37 million Americans of the population that's 12 and older used illicit drugs in 2020. 13.5% of Americans 12 or older used illicit drugs in the last 30 days. Thats one in eight or nine people thats of teenage years or older in the US, roughly.
Chicago is roughly 3 million people, of which roughly 18% are below 14; that translates to roughly 330,000 people who have used illicit drugs in a month.
Drugs are massively profitable because so many people use them; in the US alone, its worth 150 billion dollars a year, and Chicago is the third biggest city in the US, and a major transport hub. Then there's illicit gambling, loan sharking, prostitution, burglary, car theft, bank robbery, credit card theft, construction fraud, smuggling and so on.
All the various varieties of crime in a smorgasbord of flavors.
Not true. It never has.
Man has always sought mind-altering substances. Even countries with the death penalty for drug possession still have a drug trade. You can literally cook meth in the back of your car with cough medicine, which is why bulk purchase of cough medicine is currently illegal and requires an ID.
At best you'll drive the demand to another substance.
Its a demented game of whack a mole.
Which is either a remark on how he thinks about them, or a proof he isn't as informed as what he's trying to pretend.
Or a mix of both, probably a mix of both.
You don't say… my first thought when hearing *religious revelation due to lust/obsession* begins at Shub-Niggurath and doesn't really go better from there, so she is right to find that creepy….
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