Any essence recovery from this?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So, there should be enough of our people living in the Last Station to form a half-decent threshold, now. What do you guys say if, when this is over, we ward the place up to the gills? Harry or the order, whichever, but with a heavy dose of Infernal Essence to power the whole thing up?
Also, we now need to make an example of these guys of what happens to people who mess with our people. This will not stand. I'll let other people debate on battle plans, but I'm not voting for anything that doesn't, at minimum, drop Shintai and MiM on these idiots to perma-kill them very, very dead.
Also, we now need to make an example of these guys of what happens to people who mess with our people. This will not stand. I'll let other people debate on battle plans, but I'm not voting for anything that doesn't, at minimum, drop Shintai and MiM on these idiots to perma-kill them very, very dead.
Last edited:
No, since you did not really find out the full secret, this is just a hint about Demonreach.
Last edited:
In hindsight we probably should've expected this. Should have warned them to lay low, possibly taken them to some hotels for a few days.
- Location
- Germany
Problem with the Last Station is that it's not really ours, it's more of a temporary arrangement with Porter while we fullfill our promise to fix it.
Not sure if we can go for full security there until we fullfilled our deal to pimp it up and get a permanent arrangement with Porter for living there.
Not sure if we can go for full security there until we fullfilled our deal to pimp it up and get a permanent arrangement with Porter for living there.
Assuming he doesn't take this as a reason to break things off with us, since we painted a target on his back and then used his home as a safe house.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Or he decides to stop fence-sitting and fully join our side. Either way, I don't see the arrangement staying unchanged after everything is over.
… Does anyone kind of want to just, call up Lady Eiko's hotel room phone, and tell her "you have one chance to join the winning side, and go against the idiot who dared attack my people, or you share their fate. Take it or leave it." And then proceed to kick this guy's can no matter what her response is? Because I'll admit that that's my first impulse right now. Clippy can probably hack the hotel to get us her number.
… Does anyone kind of want to just, call up Lady Eiko's hotel room phone, and tell her "you have one chance to join the winning side, and go against the idiot who dared attack my people, or you share their fate. Take it or leave it." And then proceed to kick this guy's can no matter what her response is? Because I'll admit that that's my first impulse right now. Clippy can probably hack the hotel to get us her number.
Emma-O has had even a greater akuma turn against him before. Lady Eiko is probably a lesser akuma who was mandarin level before renouncing her dharma.
Both lesser and greater akuma can turn against their masters. It's just exceptionally unlikely for greater akuma to do so because they've had their personality reshaped (unless they've bargained for their personality to be preserved in advance) and it's very hard for either to succeed as their master has kill switches built into them and they must obey direct orders.
Basically, secret betrayal is possible, but if Emma-O ever finds out he can order them to stop or order them to lose their minds.
That is not true, anyone who has gone all the way like the Will of Kakuri on Earth lacks the capacity* but Shikome can and do turn, both lore-wise and mechanically. It is just very costly and risky.
*barring exceptional circumstances
- Location
- Terror Australis
Huh I think this is a case of RAW contradicting the setting (for WoD). The akuma rules in KotE The 1000 Hells mean that fully owed lesser akuma can only disobey if their owner lets them and they can destroy or command them at will. Though if there are canonical betrayals then obviously they actually can and the rules are wrong.
Last edited:
Not quite. From the Thousand Hells
JIZO THE WANDERER
Besides Emma-o and his servitors, there is only
one being capable of wandering the darkness of Kakuri
unscathed. His Same is Jizo-Bosatsu, and he embodies
the very honor that Emma-o denies. Appearing as a
slight, bald man who wears the black or saffron robes
s of a monk, Jizo-Bosatsu has aided and advised
innumerable souls trapped here. The brass rings at the top
of his walking stick jingle when he walks to warn small
creatures of his coming, so that he does not inadvert-
ently harm them: At no point has Jizo-Bosatsu been
known to show either fear or anger, and he appears
calm in all circumstances. Witnesses have stated that
he has spoken words to shikome foolish enough to hunt
him, and that the shikome have fled, weeping, as a
result. Many of these shikome leave Emma-o's service
shortly after hearing the words of Jizo-Bosatsu.
Of all beings that have ever wandered Kakuri, Jizo
has the singular honor of being the only one ever to
intimidate Emma-o. Whenever this smiling, whistling
figure is seen in Kakuri, the great Yama King withdraws
into his fortress and orders his shikome to seek the
wanderer out. Why the Yama King allows this to
happen in his own realm where he is, for all intents and
purposes, omnipotent, is beyond conjecture. Emma-o
goes to any lengths necessary to see that this bit of
information does not escape Kakuri. Were the other
Yama Kings to learn of his... odd behavior in this
regard, they would be less likely to find him a suitable
candidate for the position of Demon Emperor.
That's not actually what the rules in the Thousand Hells quite say. Although the first words of a paragraph says 'no free will' it goes on to describe how they have constrained free will, and it's constrained because they must obey their master's orders. That means a clever greater akuma can just avoid or work around the orders they're given, monkey paw style.
A couple of pages later it gives an example of a greater akuma who successfully rebelled against Emma-O.
Note that there are two types of akuma, lesser and greater, with different restrictions on them. Both can rebel; it's just much less likely for greater akuma to want to.
Last edited:
- Location
- Terror Australis
Rereading the whole section, given that it explicitly states that akuma have to obey direct orders and gives an example of a standing order, it seem that Emma-O is especially bad at issuing standing orders to prevent akuma from just outright backstabbing him. Though thinking about it in context of his fetishes he may actually be subconsciously letting his servants rebel to further punish himself.
So I was wrong, the servants of Emma-O can backstab him at will. Though some of the other Yama Kings may be less self-flagellating.
So I was wrong, the servants of Emma-O can backstab him at will. Though some of the other Yama Kings may be less self-flagellating.
Last edited:
Alright, we are buying up Perception and Streetwise ASAP!
I think I need to go through the types of akuma again:
'Guilty' political akuma: those metaphysically normal Wan Kuei who have 'voluntarily' chosen to work with a Yama King, either because of blackmail, coercion, the expectation of profit, or despair because they think the Yama Kings will win and want to be on the winning side. They may or may not have engaged in Iris Bulb Commerce, selling shares in their soul in return for demonic power ups.
Lesser akuma: Those Wan Kuei who have sold all their shares in their soul to the Yama Kings using Iris Bulb Commerce; had one Yama King buy up all the shares from their peers, and as a result the Yama King has been able to command them to perform the Rite of Renunciation. The Rite of Renunciation removes the Wan Kuei's dharma, makes it impossible for the lesser akuma to disobey direct orders from the Yama King, and allows the Yama King to control how they can feed, up to the level of feeding on breath or down to the level of flesh. It also allows the Yama Ming to reduce them to the animalistic Chih-Mei state. Note that this requires active intervention by the Yama King. Lesser akuma are known to fall through the cracks of a Hell's bureaucracy and get lost and forgotten about while they go about their business. Sometimes Yama Kings pretend this has happened before suddenly revealing it wasn't, basically to be dicks. As a side 'benefit' of becoming a lesser akuma, the Yama King can give or take away any number of additional investments, although they always keep the ones they sold their soul for.
Greater Akuma: some very promising or powerful Wan Kuei are directly recruited by a Yama King to serve as their generals and ministers. They sign the Pact of Ebony and Scarlet Jade with their prospective master, transferring ownership of all their soul at once. Notably, this is a negotiation, the Yama King has to make the terms attractive to their prospective vassal. These terms can involve specifying and limiting what treatments and transformations that can be applied to the greater akuma. A potential recruit with a good bargaining position (and most people worth recruiting would have that) might demand significant concessions in return for their service, such as preservation of their personality, limits on the kind of orders they can be given post-transformation (not allowed to be used against their old court, for example), etc. they then receive Treatments and Investments as specified in their deal, and serve the Yama King. Their free will is limited by the fact that their personality is reshaped on their recruitment within the limits of their deal, which means that the things they'd choose to do are limited by their resulting personality often being shaped to be loyal and because they to have to obey direct orders from their Yama King. Nothing stops greater akuma from undergoing personality development and changing their character away from the mold the Yama King applied afterwards though.
Note that greater akuma can rebel, and independent greater akuma without a Yama King master who have their own agenda can exist. Particularly if they've bargained to keep their own personality, or if their master wants to keep them in their existing position within Wan Kuei society so needs them to be indistinguishable from their prior self so can't change their behaviour.
'Guilty' political akuma: those metaphysically normal Wan Kuei who have 'voluntarily' chosen to work with a Yama King, either because of blackmail, coercion, the expectation of profit, or despair because they think the Yama Kings will win and want to be on the winning side. They may or may not have engaged in Iris Bulb Commerce, selling shares in their soul in return for demonic power ups.
Lesser akuma: Those Wan Kuei who have sold all their shares in their soul to the Yama Kings using Iris Bulb Commerce; had one Yama King buy up all the shares from their peers, and as a result the Yama King has been able to command them to perform the Rite of Renunciation. The Rite of Renunciation removes the Wan Kuei's dharma, makes it impossible for the lesser akuma to disobey direct orders from the Yama King, and allows the Yama King to control how they can feed, up to the level of feeding on breath or down to the level of flesh. It also allows the Yama Ming to reduce them to the animalistic Chih-Mei state. Note that this requires active intervention by the Yama King. Lesser akuma are known to fall through the cracks of a Hell's bureaucracy and get lost and forgotten about while they go about their business. Sometimes Yama Kings pretend this has happened before suddenly revealing it wasn't, basically to be dicks. As a side 'benefit' of becoming a lesser akuma, the Yama King can give or take away any number of additional investments, although they always keep the ones they sold their soul for.
Greater Akuma: some very promising or powerful Wan Kuei are directly recruited by a Yama King to serve as their generals and ministers. They sign the Pact of Ebony and Scarlet Jade with their prospective master, transferring ownership of all their soul at once. Notably, this is a negotiation, the Yama King has to make the terms attractive to their prospective vassal. These terms can involve specifying and limiting what treatments and transformations that can be applied to the greater akuma. A potential recruit with a good bargaining position (and most people worth recruiting would have that) might demand significant concessions in return for their service, such as preservation of their personality, limits on the kind of orders they can be given post-transformation (not allowed to be used against their old court, for example), etc. they then receive Treatments and Investments as specified in their deal, and serve the Yama King. Their free will is limited by the fact that their personality is reshaped on their recruitment within the limits of their deal, which means that the things they'd choose to do are limited by their resulting personality often being shaped to be loyal and because they to have to obey direct orders from their Yama King. Nothing stops greater akuma from undergoing personality development and changing their character away from the mold the Yama King applied afterwards though.
Note that greater akuma can rebel, and independent greater akuma without a Yama King master who have their own agenda can exist. Particularly if they've bargained to keep their own personality, or if their master wants to keep them in their existing position within Wan Kuei society so needs them to be indistinguishable from their prior self so can't change their behaviour.
- Location
- Terror Australis
Streetwise, Alertness and Awareness are holes in Molly's current build yes. Though speaking of Abilities I would like the basics of Expression, Stealth, Survival, Medicine and Science as well. Unlike with a full circle we really do need the basics of almost everything.
Or, if the speculation that Jizo-Bosatsu is Emma-O's Hun soul is correct, it's possible that the former can lift the orders of the later, which is why shikome often defect after meeting him.
There are other autonomous greater akuma though, although they may be something like survivors of a dead Yama King who recovered the caskets containing their souls in the chaos of their Master's defeat.
Edit: given that the akuma hope to be able to defect with the help of the Exaltation, it might be possible for sufficiently powerful beings to basically counter-spell or otherwise override a Yama King's orders, as they might be something like a continuing magical effect. In that case, Jizo-Bosatsu could be exactly what his name suggests, a formerly mortal Arhat who had sworn not to become a Buddha until he has emptied the Hells, who has decided to start with Kakuri. Releasing spiritual bonds would be an in theme ability for an ascended Buddhist.
Last edited:
And that is why we need the training charm, untrained minions are dead minions.
The greater Akuma personally ambushed them with a hit squad as backup.They weren't walking away from that, barring something like an escape potion their attackers were ignorant of.
Some training and actual equipment would be good, but I don't think this particular incident is something we could juiced them up enough to stop.
I disagree; she was in danger the whole time. Our mistake was in where we stashed her and how we prepared our minions. We should have just taken her with us, and our minions should have gotten a briefing and an armory.
It's possible they'd have tried taking them hostage anyway, but at very least taking her there likely influenced the odds.
No prep we could have reasonably given them would have stopped the will of Kakuri, but they could have held against lesser assaults noticed by the Akuma being opportunistic.
I'm thinking leather jackets with mirrored brass panels hidden beneath the surface* and big guns would be the ticket.
Enhanced physical strength and reflexes are nice for melee, but they don't typically have enough to keep up with other supernaturals when playing that game.
Muggles can be threats with modern arms though, and a ghoul should be able to handle a lot more gun than a human can.
I posted some gun ideas for Harry earlier in the thread that perfectly fit into our craft specialty we could make for them.
* Mirrors as weapon materials would also be interesting. Not in the obvious melee sense, but for guns.
If they really stand up to all mundane levels of force to the point that glass can bounce rifle rounds without a scratch then imagine the sort of pressures they could make possible inside a gun.
- Location
- Terror Australis
I think we need to make sure we permadeath the Will of Kakuri, just to help head off this sort of nonsense in the future. One of the main reasons the various supernatural factions don't just constantly murder each others lesser members is because that sort of thing has consequences. Establishing that Molly is someone you can't casually take a swing at without potential repercussions is somewhat important.
Plus you know, just fuck (most of) the Yama Kings in general and actually destroying a valuable and expensive minion is a good way to stick it to Emma-O.
Plus you know, just fuck (most of) the Yama Kings in general and actually destroying a valuable and expensive minion is a good way to stick it to Emma-O.