Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Unless the oblivion war grade DRM on the archive ensures your soul is damaged to the point that your mind stops working at transfer and the archive won't let you attempt to kill yourself.
We know that having an heir turns the previous archive into a vegetable, and that the principle concern of the archive is information control. It's probably deliberate breaking things on its way out, and since it's rooted deeply into your mind from day one there's never a point where you can resist it or choose differently.
Which is a significant anomaly in DF, and the reason I'm inclined to think it's a sacrificial ritual of some kind.
Having an heir doesn't turn the previous Archive into a vegetable. Going into a persistent vegetative states triggers the transfer of the mantle to the heir.
Ivy is unique in that she was the Archive from birth rather than having her own life to counterbalance the mantle and make sure she's her own person.
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I don't think so. I'm still having trouble finding sources for this, but the one I did find outlines the entire idea for the archive in the first place was basically to justify the existence of creepy little girls that the people of the setting need to take seriously. Which implies Ivy's situation isn't unique.
I don't think the distinction you're drawing makes much of a difference in any case. Being the archive gets your brain scrambled.
Edit:
Didn't actually post the WoJ I was referring to.
Here it is:
Cite
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All the references I saw of talking about the Archive until now have seen the order of event be in the one Arlatan said: The archive give birth, she should have taken care of her successor, but instead decided to fuck it, then Lily inherited the mantle.
And it is important because it means that creepy children is not the Archive's natural state, the current one is an exception.
While it does confirm that the Doylist reasoning is about *creepy little girl*, this does not in any way implies that this is the normal state for the Achive at any point, the mantle was made to make a creepy little girl out of universe, but the mantle's bearers have no reason to all have been creepy little girl in universe, and in fact, what we know of the current one paint that as not being normal.
- Location
- Germany
All the more reason to cheat.
The archive-mantle might have difficulty damaging your P'o if it splits from the Hun immediatly and rules-laywering around compulsions is a classic discipline.
Undeath for freedom is a good deal and if anyone has the ressources to achieve it it's hhe Archive.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
The Archive might operate a lot like the Shards from Worm, especially the ones that have taken over most of the brain functions for their hosts.
In this case, it's probably either a massive, self-perpetuating energy field/spirit being that pokes it tentacle(s) into a proper receptacle's brain/soulspace then pilots them around like a meat puppet, or something even worse. The brain is only responsible for providing a personality emulation, while all the real thought, decision-making, etc., happens with the true Archive.
The issue with Free Will can be avoided entirely if we assume the true Archive is basically a supernatural predator which boots the soul out of its meatsuit when it takes up residence. Nothing stops various supernatural creatures or adequately skilled practitioners of magic from doing this, Free Will be damned. The Archive gets to perpetuate itself indefinitely at the expense of its current meatsuit's brain getting to run a personality overlay on its hardware.
Since the Archive has shown it doesn't get disconnected from its meatsuit when contained within a circle, that means it's pretty much got to be riding around attached to their soul, right? Or, if my speculation holds true, the Archive IS the meatsuit's soul.
I wonder if the folks who created the Archive had an Exaltation to study for reference?
In this case, it's probably either a massive, self-perpetuating energy field/spirit being that pokes it tentacle(s) into a proper receptacle's brain/soulspace then pilots them around like a meat puppet, or something even worse. The brain is only responsible for providing a personality emulation, while all the real thought, decision-making, etc., happens with the true Archive.
The issue with Free Will can be avoided entirely if we assume the true Archive is basically a supernatural predator which boots the soul out of its meatsuit when it takes up residence. Nothing stops various supernatural creatures or adequately skilled practitioners of magic from doing this, Free Will be damned. The Archive gets to perpetuate itself indefinitely at the expense of its current meatsuit's brain getting to run a personality overlay on its hardware.
Since the Archive has shown it doesn't get disconnected from its meatsuit when contained within a circle, that means it's pretty much got to be riding around attached to their soul, right? Or, if my speculation holds true, the Archive IS the meatsuit's soul.
I wonder if the folks who created the Archive had an Exaltation to study for reference?
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… My bad here. I was pretty certain it didn't work that way and was trying to find WoJ on it. Didn't check the general wiki till now and contradicts some critical assumptions of my argument.
My broader argument is essentially dead at this point, but I still think you're assuming too much flexibility for the bearers of the archive. It's an informational superweapon designed to fight a war that requires assassinating ideas.
I'd be surprised if it didn't at least scrub the memories of a soul at death because if it didn't and someone involved in the world picked up on their knowledge it could undo all the hard work done to erase the monsters it's fighting.
Added the Order of the Couldron members you know as well as the pair of vampires and Sarah Greene to the front page
- Location
- Germany
My basic idea is, that it is too good a weapon for that to work.
She has access to all the works of all the Wizards that lived over the last few millenia and we know for fact that mortals can occasionally be quite good at breaking rules. Take Kemmler again, who also wrote down his lore. He helped an old god change the nature of his divinity, not as his major project, but as a side-effort to get a foe off his trail. And while he was good, he was certainly not the only mortal breaking boundaries over the last thousand years.
If there is anyone in this world that can fuck over the Archive and break all security-measures, it is the Archive.
And if I were the Archive, I'd certainly feel spiteful enough to do it.
And if simple death and return as a Wan Kuei is not enough, then there must be other ways.
- Location
- Germany
Greene is not in the local PD?
No, she is FBI, remember that is the reason Daedalus gave for being involved in the case of her husband's death.
The problem is that unlike an exaltation the archive isn't meant to help the bearer, it's meant to use them. It also appears to have significant access to their minds and souls.
Attempting to game it could be countered by the archive noting the desire, restricting access to information, and wiping anything useful in their personal memory from their mind. It already does that as a matter of course just to fight the oblivion war, so it clearly has the capacity for it.
To betray something that deeply rooted in their minds the archives would almost certainly need outside assistance that they can't actually arrange for themselves.
- Location
- Germany
I mean that you put her under PD.
My mistake, changed it to Law Enforcement.
- Location
- Germany
That presumes that the power bahind the Archive had the ability to plan or understand humans to a serious degree.
If that were the case, it wouldn't need the human mind and personality.
Since Ivy is more than a conduit for an ancient entity called Archive and is indeed mortal enough to possibly take up a Coin, I think the power of the Archive is removed enough from the person of the Archive to allow for some trickery.
Vote closed.
Arc 5 Post 26: Arcane Insights
Arcane Insights
15th of September 2006 A.D.
As the city rushes by in a blur grey and gold of autumn leaves you consider, seriously consider hanging this Rodney guy out to dry and washing your hands of him. There's just so much to do. If it weren't for Clippy and her lot your might have done just that, let Marcone handle it, but you do have the digital assistance to watch him and the chain of middlemen through witch he got his orders so for now at least his throat stays unslit and you do not have to deal with the guilt of having set the whole thing in motion. At least 'Lictor' does not cause anything near the same unease, immortal fey spirits should know better, even if they are carrion-pickers of blood drenched battle grounds. A bloody tie sounds unhygienic anyway...
"Nearest fast food restaurant please Rider, after that drop me off at the warehouse. I've got something to show Harry...."
***
Harry opens the door for you, his face falling comically as he recognized the cheerful look on your face. "What now?Its a Saturday" he moans. In reply you raise a Starbucks and a bag from Burger King. "I brought coffee."
Pushing both into his hands, you slip past him to exchange greetings with Mouse, and pay tribute to Mister. "Good news, I have a name and description of the man who was shooting at us...well, Gorfel, but us as well. Better news, I have pictures." And with that you drop a folder of pics on the table. It had taken you two tries to get it right, in no small part because of how weird it was to draw like you are a copying machine. Any attempt to insert feelings or style in the shades and lighting had hit a wall. Magic powers or not you are no artist with a pencil.
Lost 3 Essence -> now at 6/12 Essence 8/9 willpower.
At that Harry stops rummaging through the paper bag, proving once and for all that Mouse can still do puppy dog eyes in the process. "What's the bad news."
"Lictor's a Redcap, only he wears a tie instead of a cap. That means he's been changed fundamntally, take this with a grain of salt, but as I read it, he's no longer one crowned in blood, lord of the unplowed field, he is speaker of the blood, herald of murder. Or maybe he was really bored with his look and wanted an update. Either way I figured Mab needs to know that her monsters are out freelance monstering for Nazis and answering to guys named Speer."
"I'll warn her..." seeing your expectant look he adds. "Once you are gone, no reason to draw even more of Mab's attention to you."
Even though the contrarian part of you wants to object you cannot really think of a good reason to. Instead you ask between sips of coke: "So anything on the Naagloshii?"
"Several things," he recounts with a gratifying lack of hesitation. "It revels in terror, but does not need it to survive, it can devour living things for their shapes and in the case of mortal practitioners for their powers. Only a Navajo Medicine man can drive one away by invoking the oaths it has defiled. Otherwise you are left in a slugging match with hmm... a semidivine being. That's not really the right..."
"It's a little-g-god," you cut him off. "No need to do a run around the thesaurus on my account. I've had experience with that..."
"Experience?" He sounds enough like he's chocking that you wonder if you should pan him on the back.
You would be lying if you said you don't enjoy this. "Made one sort of not-really on accident." With that you proceed to explain Watchful Bane upon the Thirty Sixth Threshold as well as your experiences with the Order of the Cauldron. Motioning with a french fry you add: "You know there's no reason why the White Council can't just take in minor talents. I mean what you're doing is like if the army only took in crack snippers. Sure they'd be able to boast about how high their overall accuracy is but the trenches would be nine tenths empty of all the people just good enough to shoot a riffle."
Alas Harry isn't interested in your thoughts on White Council reformation. "Hold on there let's get back to raised a dark spirit and bound it to protect an apartment."
"An apartment building and I didn't raise him, I made him."
It takes a lot more explaining and even going down to Bob to back you up on the particulars, but in the end you manage to convince Harry that you made a genius loci of your own will and authority.
As Bob puts it "What did you think god-king means, a king who moonlights as a god on the weakened? She's the queen of a spirit court, only one without any subjects."
So far, the words in your mind are so faint you might have imagined them, though Usum assures you that he had heard them too.
In the meantime Harry obviously had been doing his own thinking. "What do you think of trading the information on this Lictor for information, maybe even some help on dealing with the Naagloshii? I know it's a lot better to have Mab in debt to you than the other way around, but if there is one thing Winter is good at it's knowing how to deal with enemies." For once you do not think the small catch in his voice has anything to do with keeping you from danger. He's probably remembering the help his godmother had given him in dealing with his first master.
What do you reply?
[] Yes, trade the information in for whatever you can
[] You are a better negotiator than him, if you are going to do it best do it right (Will Require convincing Harry; Opposed rolls with intimacy on his side)
[] No, you would rather keep the favor for now, there are other places you can find information, other allies you can gather
[] Write in
OOC: Molly is doing a very good job so far impressing her general competence on Harry, it just takes a while since you are pushing directly against his Damsel in Distress intimacy.
Rolls
Finding Cash (if she had failed this one Molly would have used All things betray to lower her DC for looking through her purse)
Drawing 1, 2
Explaining God Crafting
Realizing Harry is not precisely comfortable trading favors with Winter
Finding Cash (if she had failed this one Molly would have used All things betray to lower her DC for looking through her purse)
Drawing 1, 2
Explaining God Crafting
Realizing Harry is not precisely comfortable trading favors with Winter
Something I've just realised. Do we know that Winter Fey are even forbidden from having side-gigs?
When Harry was Winter Knight he was taking jobs from other people without it being an issue.
Do we even know that Lictor knew who/what he was working for?
When Harry was Winter Knight he was taking jobs from other people without it being an issue.
Do we even know that Lictor knew who/what he was working for?
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[X] No, you would rather keep the favor for now, there are other places you can find information, other allies you can gather
Pushing the issue would not only burn capital we have with Winter, but burn capital we have with Dresden because we would have to do this over his objections even if we convince him otherwise, because the only sensible way to go about it is to do the negotiation ourselves.
Pushing the issue would not only burn capital we have with Winter, but burn capital we have with Dresden because we would have to do this over his objections even if we convince him otherwise, because the only sensible way to go about it is to do the negotiation ourselves.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
He needs a new category for Molly; Distressing Damsel, maybe?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
"Harry, I'm not a damsel in distress. I'm a damsel of distress."
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