Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Transhumanism for fun and power is the one thing Infernals are much better at than Solars (That and minions, at least in Exalted).
I wouldn't miss out on that.


I'm just saying that relativly free-form mages have a lot of options to negate environmental damage.
And natural Shapeshifters also have an advantage in that area.
And this particular shapeshifter with mage-powers from the people he's eaten is also tough enough not to be distracted by the pain of any initial effect we might get from an ambush.

From the Quotes that @uju32 just helpfully provided it looks like the most effective attacks against it were Lara's straight physical attacks like kicking it through some walls and Joseph's shapeshifted physical attacks.

It's good enough at magic to deflect or weaken everything Dresden can do and Dresden does have a considerable amout of raw power behind his mojo.
So getting it in a place where it can't easily get away and putting ours and Micheal's swords in it seems like the relativly best option, though I would want some more Charms for that to be honest.
Semi-divine immortal spirit of sadism and terror. Which part suggests that it needs to breathe?
Or that it cant simply shapeshift into biology that ignores or mitigates chemical weapons? Or even just tank the damage the way it tanked a full Uzi mag at contact range then continued to lolstomp the rest of the household?

Granted, Dresden almost strangled it with a soulfire infused magical garrotte, but that wasnt an air thing.
That was a magic thing.
We have different understandings on the limitations of what canbe achieved with biology-based shape-shifting. For example, as long as it is hydrocarbon based (and even if it is silicon based), chlorine gas would work. Some of the fancier stuff probably won't, but there's purity and efficiency in the basic chemistry. I am almost certain that it would be able to protect itself, but that would take active continuous magical effort, not be a basic function of its shape-shifting.

Which is why I am also suggesting hard gamma radiation. It has two advantages - it's undetectable to biological senses, until the damage accumulated is enough to be absolutely and quickly lethal, it works as pretty much a mundane version of concentrated entropy attack, meaning that it shouldn't care about biology at all.

Ideally, we'd combine multiple vectors of attack while ambushing it. Radiation, chemical warfare, explosives, exotics (microwave radiation generators shouldn't be hard to build, and they should count as environmental hazard - we could cook it relatively easily). All toppled with a shintai using Molly going in with nuclear hellfire sword to keep it from being able to counter mundane damage.

What we need is to be able to prevent it from running away.

This Mab is younger than Nicodemus. She is explicitly not the first Winter Queen. And Mother Winter has been around since the beginning. The Winter Court(and the Summer Court) as institutions are much older than Mab is, and has shared responsibility for the Outer Gates for millenia according to Word of Jim.

You underestimate their institutional memory.

To use your analogy, we are writing a sanitized primer to China or Russia's internal socioplolitics.
Which is a place where the CIA and State Department has been operating for almost a century now.
Winter will have the deep lore. Including those parts we couldnt write so as not to drive mortals mad.
Suffice to say, I disagree here. Even assuming Winter has deep lore (arguable to say the least, Yomi Wan is not their area of responsibility, they are a west based power, etc), and that our book is merely a primer (again, arguable, from my understanding it turned out to be much more than that), a book one can give to mortals or near mortals without causing SAN damage is very useful and valuable to anyone who has mortal or near mortal agents. And winter does.
Eh. Ivy has the mojo to simultaneously stomp a third of the Denarians as long as she has access to power.
Wan Kuei are frankly beneath her.
Even the actual Yomi Kings would step carefully around her.
While alive. The book is "get out of hell cheaper" card for a lot of magic users, Ivy included.
 
Transhumanism for fun and power is the one thing Infernals are much better at than Solars (That and minions, at least in Exalted).
I wouldn't miss out on that.
Eh. Differing opinions.

I'm just saying that relativly free-form mages have a lot of options to negate environmental damage.
And natural Shapeshifters also have an advantage in that area. And this particular shapeshifter with mage-powers from the people he's eaten is also tough enough not to be distracted by the pain of any initial effect we might get from an ambush.

From the Quotes that @uju32 just helpfully provided it looks like the most effective attacks against it were Lara's straight physical attacks like kicking it through some walls and Joseph's shapeshifted physical attacks.

It's good enough at magic to deflect or weaken everything Dresden can do and Dresden does have a considerable amout of raw power behind his mojo. So getting it in a place where it can't easily get away and putting ours and Micheal's swords in it seems like the relativly best option, though I would want some more Charms for that to be honest.
To be fair, Lara's physical attacks just moved it around, they didnt appear to do any damage.
Injun Joe? Yes. But he had access to higher mojo.

But that trawl just reminded me of how horrifying that thing is.

I mean, for the love of Christ that thing ate one of Luccio's firelances at less than the width of a home office, and it barely scratched its hide. Then it reflexively counterspelled one of Dresden's kinetic lances and uses it to bat Lara into a wall.
And at the end of everything, it makes it clear that its just been playing all this time.

Dresden literally hits it with everything he has, with soulfire-infused magic and Demonreach at its back and at the end he's lying on the dirt barely conscious from the exertion and the thing is making amused small talk.
Then goes on to fight Injun Joe.

Its a fucking combat monster.

And given the way we look and feel to magic senses, if we come to blows its not going to be faffing around. Canon Dresden with the benefit of four more years of experience and soulfire is barely an inconvenience; current Dresden would just die if he got into a fight outside his Wards. And Gard isnt really any better.

Only relevant persons here in an offensive action would be Michael and Molly.
Possibly Lydia, depending on what the old man in her head has to say. And I strongly suspect that the damn thing is keeping a low profile(or possibly commuting from Nevada) while there's a Sword in town.

Molly may no longer be covered by the Archive's Intellectus. She doesn't have access to all writing, only all things written by a mortal human. So until someone else makes a copy, Ivy doesn't know it. Possibly not even then, depending on how conceptual it is. A mortal human may need to rewrite it in their own words.
Im not aware of any such exception.
Because if that were so, she would be unable to carry out her role in the Oblivion War.
Cite?
Ivy is a big cheese while alive.
Not sure how much of that she could apply as a ghost or if her P'o goes to hell.
One trick more is definitly a good thing for her, even if it might not be stricktly necessary.
She doesnt go to Yomi Wan when she dies.
Being Wan Kuei is supposed to be a punishment, not a reward; I cant see a situation where she would willingly attempt to come back as a Jade Court vampire.
 
The dive speed of a falcon is absolutely relevant when that form factor and design is being assumed and powered by a semi-divine immortal spirit of terror.

The dive speed of a falcon is completely and utterly irrelevant because it is a dive speed, it doesn't depends on muscle power, only on gravity and aerodynamics, it requires taking enough altitude to reach this speed first, which means you are better served simply flying away, and it doesn't allows for maintaining the speed, since, once again, dive speed, not flying speed.
 
She doesnt go to Yomi Wan when she dies.
Being Wan Kuei is supposed to be a punishment, not a reward; I cant see a situation where she would willingly attempt to come back as a Jade Court vampire.

I can, but it is not common, for instance if she had that option when the Denarians got to her. Taking your chances with a hell were the master of the domain is not specifically gunning for you might be less horrifying that taking up a Coin

Anyway vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 30, 2023 at 4:14 AM, finished with 48 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Ask more questions from the list
    --[X] [Thule Society investigation] Question: "What was the full chain of events that led the people who shot these bullets to know where and when to be to shoot them?" Focus: The bullets shot at us during initial meeting with Brother Divsimar.
    --[X] [Thule Society investigation] Question: "Who attempted to shoot Gorfiel / us from this place?". Focus: The roof from which the shot was made
    --[X] [Thule Society investigation] Question: "what was the chain of command involved in the shooting of this bullet at us/Gorfel outside Harry's apartment". Focus: Bullet souvenir
 
She doesnt go to Yomi Wan when she dies.
Being Wan Kuei is supposed to be a punishment, not a reward; I cant see a situation where she would willingly attempt to come back as a Jade Court vampire.
She does a lot of bad things in the name of her Oblivion War.
She might have a strong enough P'o to go to hell for it, especially if she gets older.

Just because she's a force for good in the bigger picture doesn't mean ordering people killed isn't draining on the humanity.
 
Im not aware of any such exception.
Because if that were so, she would be unable to carry out her role in the Oblivion War.
Cite?

Word of Jim saying she didn't know what Nevernever entities like Bob knew. Also, Ivy says she's the sum of all human knowledge in Death Masks, which would logically exclude inhuman knowledge sources.

She doesnt go to Yomi Wan when she dies.
Being Wan Kuei is supposed to be a punishment, not a reward; I cant see a situation where she would willingly attempt to come back as a Jade Court vampire.

If the alternative was dying without a daughter and so ending the line of Archives, I could see her using her death curse to do something like sending her Po soul to a Hell and empowering it so it could easily escape and rejoin the rest of her as a Wan Kuei, as they can have living children.

Note that going to a Hell is a punishment. Escaping to have another try as a Wan Kuei is a parole from it and an opportunity for redemption.
 
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Regarding fighting naagloshii - the charm we need is Seeing is Blindness (2 dot, Kakuri, favored, worth 6 XP):
Seeing is Blindness (••)
The Infernal's attacks trail inky contrails that steal
the light from the eyes of her foes.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. For the next
(Essence rating) turns, the Infernal's attacks are stained
with darkness. If such an attack strikes an opponent
whether or not it inflicts damage, the target is blinded
for the rest of the scene: a cloud of liquid darkness
spreads across his eyes, and he raises the difficulty of
all actions depending on vision by +2.
Signature Effect: Anyone who gazes upon the Infernal
while in her Shintai form must make a Willpower
roll (difficulty 8) or be struck temporarily blind, as though
afflicted by Seeing is Blindness. This roll needs only be
made once per transformation. Attempting to target the
Infernal with attacks without looking at her raises the difficulty
by +1 for close-quarters attacks, +2 at range
Or, and listen to me here... Crowned With Fury.
Crowned With Fury
Concentrating her implacable will upon another,
the Infernal crushes her target's psyche with a display
of her hellish glory. Green flames creep from her eyes
and mouth whenever she commands her newly-suborned
lackey, forming a blazing crown that burns above
her head while she speaks.
System: Spend 2 Essence and roll Charisma +
Leadership (difficulty of the target's Willpower). Success
transforms the target into the Infernal's obedient
servant. The more successes rolled, the longer the target's
servitude lasts, as per the chart below:
Result Duration
Botch Subject cannot be targeted by this Charm
for the rest of the story.
Failure Subject cannot be targeted by this Charm
again in the current scene.
1 One hour
2 One day
3 One week
4 One month
5 One year
The target can resist a command from the Infernal
for a scene, but doing so causes her body to begin tearing
itself apart under the strain of disloyalty, inflicting one
unsoakable level of lethal damage. Each level of damage
the target suffers to resist this Charm negates one success
on the Infernal's roll, shortening its duration.
Signature Effect: The Infernal's Shintai form
wears a crown of emerald flames, and her words tear
at the minds of those who hear them. She adds her Essence
rating to all social rolls, and the cost of Crowned
with Fury drops to 1 Essence.
Assuming base difficulty 9 (reasonable, as it's a semi-divine monster with a long history), and a bit of preparation (something to cool the area enough for WHWH to work) we'd be rolling 16 dice ((3+3)*2 +2 WHWH + 2 stunt) against difficulty 8 (5, if we use CCC, or TLF is applicable). The command we'll give it is, obviously, "do not resist". We can reliably expect something along the lines of 8 successes, meaning that it'll suffer 8 levels of unsoakable lethal damage, and it would also have to be concentrating on disobeying us while we are attacking it.

So... Spend 12 XP for Seeing is Blindness and Crowned with Fury. Alpha strike it with Crowned with Fury, and then attack with Seeing is Blindness and Green Sun Nimbus Flare.

Should be doable.
 
Assuming base difficulty 9 (reasonable, as it's a semi-divine monster with a long history), and a bit of preparation (something to cool the area enough for WHWH to work) we'd be rolling 16 dice ((3+3)*2 +2 WHWH + 2 stunt) against difficulty 8 (5, if we use CCC, or TLF is applicable). The command we'll give it is, obviously, "do not resist". We can reliably expect something along the lines of 8 successes, meaning that it'll suffer 8 levels of unsoakable lethal damage, and it would also have to be concentrating on disobeying us while we are attacking it.

it doesn't suffer one level of damage per success, but one level of damage per scene.
 
I haven't ever bothered bringing CWF because it is pretty much mind control. IDK about Molly using it. Maybe other people think different, I dunno.

But yes, it is a powerful charm with unexpected combat utility.
it doesn't suffer one level of damage per success, but one level of damage per scene.
I remembered it being one per round, but apparently you are correct. Shame.
 
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it doesn't suffer one level of damage per success, but one level of damage per scene.
? The text is
"
The target can resist a command from the Infernal
for a scene, but doing so causes her body to begin tearing
itself apart under the strain of disloyalty, inflicting one
unsoakable level of lethal damage."
So, it's per command per scene, I think. So, for example, we give it a command "stay still", it ignores it for a scene, which causes it 1 unsoakable level of damage. We give it a second command "do not resist", it resists, which gives it another level of damage.
Basically, we use it as an alpha strike, then rattle of a list of commands "stay still, do not resist, do not use magic, do not speak, do not shapshift, etc". By attempting resisting it's going to get a lot of damage.

That's how we stack damage on top of damage.
 
The target can resist a command from the Infernal
for a scene, but doing so causes her body to begin tearing
That's the keypoint.

All other damage doesn't matter, he just takes one to ignore it for the fight.

The rest he can simply take one by one after he flees or wins and regenerate faster than one health per scene.
 
That's the keypoint.

All other damage doesn't matter, he just takes one to ignore it for the fight.

The rest he can simply take one by one after he flees or wins and regenerate faster than one health per scene.
"A command", not "all commands". So, we give it a number of commands that it has to violate to flee or fight. It'll take damage from all of them.
 
Something else worry considering is that mental attacks are not unknown in this setting, and techniques to counter them also do so, even if the White Council's aren't that good, better ones exist.
 
That costs 2 Essence per casting. And an action.
? No, we can give multiple commands, an unlimited amount of them, even, with one casting.
Something else worry considering is that mental attacks are not unknown in this setting, and techniques to counter them also do so, even if the White Council's aren't that good, better ones exist.
True, but unless it has a perfect defence (possible, but unlikely), i don't think my math is wrong
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 30, 2023 at 4:14 AM, finished with 48 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Ask more questions from the list
    --[X] [Thule Society investigation] Question: "What was the full chain of events that led the people who shot these bullets to know where and when to be to shoot them?" Focus: The bullets shot at us during initial meeting with Brother Divsimar.
    --[X] [Thule Society investigation] Question: "Who attempted to shoot Gorfiel / us from this place?". Focus: The roof from which the shot was made
    --[X] [Thule Society investigation] Question: "what was the chain of command involved in the shooting of this bullet at us/Gorfel outside Harry's apartment". Focus: Bullet souvenir
 
Arc 5 Post 25: Threads Crimson and Green
Threads Crimson and Green

15th of September 2006 A.D.

Spurred on by the knowledge that there's a cannibalistic shapeshifting horror loose in Chicago you decide on the next morning to do your own investigation. The first thing you ask is how Gorfel and his thugs knew to be at the drop off place to begin with, thinking perhaps they had been tracking the bones themselves with sorcery. Alas the answer proves to be much more mundane:

...a hurried call from a whispered into a burner phone
Before that
...an email from a 'friend' long dreaded replied with trembling fingers
Earlier still
...a ruddy faced man at Hawthorne Race Track losing himself in the excitement of the crowd that fills in him a need, and addiction
At the root
...money changes hands, cash untraceable, this time surely he will win
Rodney Miller will not win,
you know, you know with the eerie insight of power steeped in sin since before the pyramids were raised, but his minders will

There is more, the full name of the man who has been feeding Rodney's gambling habit and the awareness that he himself had been bought, for the price of covering up some insurance scams. There is an entire network of them out there and they aren't all praising Thule or whatever the hell Nazi sorcerers do.

Setting putting the bullet back into the glove compartment you instruct Black Rider to drive you to Harry's wondering all the while if you should tell Marcone. The last thing you want is to be responsible for some guy with a gambling addiction to get cement shoes, but knowingly or not that same guy gave away secrets about holy relics to the Thule Society. That is a bit more serious than just betraying Marcone. Back and forth you go. How many more holy relics could be have?

Before you can come to a decision you come to your destination, the car breaking with mechanical precision right in front of dog that had slipped its owner's leash. "Rider, you are making me look like an asshole," you scold him.

"All mortal lifeforms involved are unharmed. I estimate that the fear response to this event will make both more cautious, thus increasing their average lifespan."

"Clippy update the list, Rule Number 83, no trying to scare pets and pet owners into being more careful."

"Query: Why?"

"Conflict with Rule Number 5, no careless destruction of life and property. You did not know one hundred percent that you could stop in time and a slip up would cause far more damage than fear alone could engender by way of behavior modification."

"Acknowledged." The answer does not sound sullen or confused in the least. You are getting better at this.

That out of the way you look at the roof: "Who attempted to shoot Gorfel from this roof?"

A name, a title floats to the surface of your mind spoken with scorn in Gorfel's own remembered voice: Lictor but with that comes a glimpse just as fleeting of a pale man, black suit, white shirt, the only spot of color on him his crimson tie like a slash across his chest. A glimpse is all Usum needs, he had seen that shade of red before, bound in the halls of Arctis Tor, a Redcap's bloody mark, though to wear it upon the neck and not the head meas this one had been warped in some way the demon explains. The deathless fey are not easy to warp.

One more question then: "What was the chain of command involved in the shooting of this bullet at us and Gorfel outside Harry's apartment"

Rather than a list of names you get just one, again familiar: Dr. Hans Ulrich Speer, the one your power had marked Bone Digger and Stone Breaker. The fact that he had given the order himself with no links in the chain between himself and the Recap assassin makes you suspect the snippet had always been meant to kill Gorfel, perhaps to claim the bones or out of some wider rivalry within the Thule Society.

Lost 3 Essence-> Now at 9/12

Generally you are in favor of the trash taking itself out, but the fact that the fellow with the modern-sounding Gernam name was giving order to another kind of treacherous immortal leaves you deeply uneasy.

What do you do with the information?

[] [Marcone] Tell him about the spy in his organization (Gain favor with Marcone; the spy is likely executed)

[] [Marcone] Don't say anything, this Rodney guy is just a patsy and does not deserve to die

[] [Marcone] Write in

[] [Winter] Ask Harry if he knows any way to get the information about Licor to Mab

[] [Winter] They can clean up their own mess, the last thing you want to do is hint at the power of the Crown to Mab

[] [Winter] Write in


OOC: The votes are independent of one another since informing Marcone he has a spy is a lot more in the realms of conventional divination than figuring out Lictor from staring at a bullet he once shot.
 
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Harry is actually really good at Divination using Thaumaturgy. It's possibly he could track a bullet back to his owner if he gets lucky.

Particularly as he could have all sorts of subtle ways of tracking what happens in buildings around his home hidden away that could give additional clues or Thaumaturgical links beyond the bullet.

Edit: also, if we don't think it's urgent, we could hit Dr Speer first so they conclude we extracted the information from him.

[X] [Marcone] Don't inform Marcone, but go to Rodney/others in the network and use him as a focus to find out which other holy relics he's aware of.
[X] [Winter] Table the matter for now, but look into tracking down Dr Speer and using that as cover for your knowledge
 
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[X] [Marcone] Don't inform Marcone, but go to Rodney/others in the network and use him as a focus to find out which other holy relics he's aware of.
[X] [Winter] Table the matter for now, but look into tracking down Dr Speer and using that as cover for your knowledge

the macrone question is an ethics question: i think we should tell dad.
 
Sure

[X] [Marcone] Don't inform Marcone, but go to Rodney/others in the network and use him as a focus to find out which other holy relics he's aware of.
[X] [Winter] Table the matter for now, but look into tracking down Dr Speer and using that as cover for your knowledge
 
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