No reason to get defensive. Its not a criticism, its an explanation of my thought process.

If I were to talk shit about people being responsible for poor decision making, I can assure you that I wouldn't be bothering with veiling my barbs. There'd be a comprehensive breakdown of who to blame and why, complete with quotes to serve as evidence towards the veracity of said shit flinging. :V
Not really defensive, just pointing out that you are assuming things.

Good logic used on bad information can still lead to incorrect results.
 
Not really defensive, just pointing out that you are assuming things.

Good logic used on bad information can still lead to incorrect results.
*chortles amusedly*

If that's how you want to see things, then fine. I'll look forward to you talking about my misconceptions come the start of the next quest, then. I can hardly defend a position that is "literally nothing", you know? I'd at least like to have something to argue for first.
 
Erm, could we please change subjects?

Like, more panicking about the fact any choice is a bad choice? Not everyone's on Discord here, and no sharing information already screwed you over pretty hard with Lucius' Nat1..
 
Let's see.

Martha will remember everything that happened if we bring her back. So she'll remember marrying Dace, him dieing right in front of her, etc. We're guessing she'll have to pass a sanity check if we bring her back. Also she'll probably interrupt Aife's foolish poison plot.

The grail will bring a lot of heat if we take it back.
 
[X] Plan Peggy Sue
-[X]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
-[X]Himself ( Dace would retain memories up to the Battle of Yr Wyddfa, and his levels, however, he would be converted from H3 to H4 hero and as such, would obtain different skills. Furthermore, the HBS Deathclock will not be reset.)
-[X]An item. This comes with restrictions:
--[X]The Holy Grail

Bringing back Martha would cause friction with Elizabeth, wouldn't it? We'd be starting out with a marriage issue immediately. I'm only just jumping in, so I'm just going to trust that taking the grail isn't a horrible liability for the moment. It's not as if the leading plan doesn't take it anyways...

What is immediately apparent though is that Dace keeping his memories is really, really important, on account of him being an intrigue character. He can leverage that sort of thing excellently, and it was a lack of intel that was the chief problem this run, so we really shouldn't pass on that. IC knowledge means available actions, and from there, we can bootstrap everything else.
 
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Prime, taking Dace back uses 2 charges. We can't take Dace back, escape slavery under cherry, and take the grail.
Choose 2 (Or 4) :

[] Himself ( Dace would retain memories up to the Battle of Yr Wyddfa, and his levels, however, he would be converted from H3 to H4 hero and as such, would obtain different skills. Furthermore, the HBS Deathclock will not be reset.)
...no, taking Dace back clearly takes only one charge. Escaping slavery uses 2 charges, but that's out of 4.
 
[X] Plan Peggy Sue
-[X]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
-[X]Himself ( Dace would retain memories up to the Battle of Yr Wyddfa, and his levels, however, he would be converted from H3 to H4 hero and as such, would obtain different skills. Furthermore, the HBS Deathclock will not be reset.)
-[X]An item. This comes with restrictions:
--[X]The Holy Grail

I misread.
 
[X] Plan Peggy Sue
-[X]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
-[X]Himself ( Dace would retain memories up to the Battle of Yr Wyddfa, and his levels, however, he would be converted from H3 to H4 hero and as such, would obtain different skills. Furthermore, the HBS Deathclock will not be reset.)
-[X]An item. This comes with restrictions:
--[X]The Holy Grail
 
I still don't know why they thought that.
<-Didn't care enough about bringing Dace back due to wanting the Grail/Martha/Anchor/Necklace/Book of Air Magic/etc.

Bringing Dace's memories back means he turns into a HoMM4 Hero, so we'd lose out on the possibility of getting the skill that gives magic resist to the entire army.
Also, instead of a 4-elemental system with the option of learning all of them, we'd have what? a 5-element system with the option of learning 3? I'm less familiar with HoMM4 than HoMM3 so the point of familiarity is useful.

If: noMartha
And
If: noNecklace

[ ] Plan Free Grail Base
-[ ]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
-[ ]An item. This comes with restrictions:
--[ ] The Nature Anchor
--[ ] The Holy Grail

Start with the options that help get a headstart on faction-building.
 
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<-Didn't care enough about bringing Dace back due to wanting the Grail/Martha/Anchor/Necklace/Book of Air Magic/etc.

Bringing Dace's memories back means he turns into a HoMM4 Hero, so we'd lose out on the possibility of getting the skill that gives magic resist to the entire army.
Also, instead of a 4-elemental system with the option of learning all of them, we'd have what? a 5-element system with the option of learning 3? I'm less familiar with HoMM4 than HoMM3 so the point of familiarity is useful.
Leading armies isn't Dace's strong suit anyways, though. Is that an ability only he would be able to get? Not familiar with Heroes of Might and Magic.
 
In my opinion, being able to bring back a future's worth of information is something that Dace would be able to leverage far better than granting magic resistance to an entire army, honestly.

Intrigue and Research Spec, after all.

[X] Plan Peggy Sue
 
Leading armies isn't Dace's strong suit anyways, though. Is that an ability only he would be able to get? Not familiar with Heroes of Might and Magic.
Considering the wording of items that do something similar, it can mean Dace being in Theatre giving all allied units a 5%/10%/20% chance to resist any given spell in addition to any gained from Dace equipping the right artifact.

This makes AoE spam from both directions safer for our own units. Especially if we get attacked at our capital or Dace is made to come alone again.
H4 Heroes are decidedly more hands on than H3 heroes...
 
Considering the wording of items that do something similar, it can mean Dace being in Theatre giving all allied units a 5%/10%/20% chance to resist any given spell in addition to any gained from Dace equipping the right artifact.

This makes AoE spam from both directions safer for our own units. Especially if we get attacked at our capital or Dace is made to come alone again.
H4 Heroes are decidedly more hands on than H3 heroes...
Just to point this out from the start, but if you're an intrigue spec'd character with excellent research to leverage that kind of thing, you should never be engaging in a situation where that kind of generic parity would ever be relevant to begin with.

You should have already won loooooooong before any such engagement is joined, and the battle itself will have already been a foregone conclusion.
 
Just to point this out from the start, but if you're an intrigue spec'd character with excellent research to leverage that kind of thing, you should never be engaging in a situation where that kind of generic parity would ever be relevant to begin with.

You should have already won loooooooong before any such engagement is joined, and the battle itself will have already been a foregone conclusion.
I thought you were keeping out due to wanting to maintain a fresh perspective?

Anyway, my point is that having Dace remain a H3 hero allows him access to certain support skills whereas H4 allows him access to certain "be Rambo" skills.
Support Dace is better for our situation than Rambo-wannabe Dace.

Also, having an army that doesn't get casually wiped by army killers is useful in discouraging people from dropping army killers on your army to grind experience.
 
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I thought you were keeping out due to wanting to maintain a fresh perspective?
Pointing out common wisdom is one of the benefits of maintaining this viewpoint, as I'm not speaking "from the perspective of someone vulnerable to the sunk cost fallacy".

That being said.

Anyway, my point is that having Dace remain a H3 hero allows him access to certain support skills whereas H4 allows him access to certain "be Rambo" skills.
Support Dace is better for our situation than Rambo-wannabe Dace.

Also, having an army that doesn't get casually wiped by army killers is useful in discouraging people from dropping army killers on your army to grind experience.
Ignoring the specifics, if you're an intrigue-centered faction why are you letting yourself get in that position to begin with?

Allowing people to get the drop on you and not be utterly demolished due to it being a research-spec's prepared grounds and defenses means you literally deserve to die as the enemy fulfilled the obvious win conditions.

You'd have lost the Intrigue game and the research game if you don't have a qualitative advantage over your rivals, especially when they'd be walking into the teeth of your defenses. If you have an obvious, easily exploitable weakness then again:

You deserved to die.

Contingencies are supposed to be based on leveraging your own strengths, so that way you don't have to invest overly much in order to retake the advantage. Information is absurdly powerful simply under normal circumstances simply because of the superior situational awareness. In the hands of a prep and intrigue focused character, you really don't need anything else.

If you go into a gameboard with a great deal of knowledge and experience over your opponents and the ability to leverage that to extreme effectiveness then that is your strength and your win condition. To fail to leverage that is to fail outright.

You deserve to lose.

The actual bullet to the head is simply a foregone conclusion having finally reached the end of its belabored journey to occur.

I'm simply pointing this out for your guys' benefit when making this choice, that's all. Either way I'm going to have to deal with the consequences of whatever opinions and plans are imagined by those who see this vote as an opportunity regardless, and there is furthermore little doubt that my own opinions as an "involved party" will differ substantially from those who take the initiative to formulate and present plans of their own.
Adhoc vote count started by TehChron on Sep 10, 2018 at 5:51 PM, finished with 59 posts and 11 votes.

  • [X] Plan Peggy Sue
    -[X]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
    -[X]Himself ( Dace would retain memories up to the Battle of Yr Wyddfa, and his levels, however, he would be converted from H3 to H4 hero and as such, would obtain different skills. Furthermore, the HBS Deathclock will not be reset.)
    -[X] An item. This comes with restrictions:
    --[X] The Holy Grail
    [X] Plan Free Grail Base
    -[X]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
    -[X] An item. This comes with restrictions:
    --[X] The Nature Anchor
    --[X] The Holy Grail
    [X] Plan Find our own Anchor, Martha's coming.
    -[X]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
    -[X] An ally. Depending on how loyal and aware of your history they are, they may or may not come back to you. Their levels will be reset.
    --[X] Martha, the loyal maid who killed Riddle in close combat.
    -[X] An item. This comes with restrictions:
    --[X] The Holy Grail
 
[X] Plan Free Grail Base
-[X]Yes. Dace will be freed, but in doing so, incur the wrath of his former patron.
-[X]An item. This comes with restrictions:
--[X] The Nature Anchor
--[X] The Holy Grail

Meh, no longer matters if I split the vote on my old plan.
This would let Dace set up his home base and get started on making it defensible early.

After all, just because Dace sucks at martial doesn't mean others will be kind enough to not take advantage of the fact that Dace sucks at Martial. Rather, it means he needs to hire a good martial adviser, a hero(ine) and get early defenses up and running while trying to lay low.
 
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