Crowdsourcing charm development is a terrible idea. Do it yourself. Trying to do it this way is futile, and leads only to endless arguments over things like whether orbital killsats you can fire from anywhere in the world to smite your enemies are a balanced charm concept.

Crowdsourcing the testing is a decent idea, after you're done. And vastly easier to convince people to do.
 
Huh. Just something minor I noticed.

Crossbows are now common weapons across creation, rather than being secret weapons of the Haslanti
 
now we just need to replace the fucking triremes with junks.

Apparently only the Relm uses triremes, and only for ship to ship interdiction.

It's funny, cuz right above it, it talks about the massive Heavy Merchant vessels that sale the west, which are full on Chinese treasure ship sized, carrying 3,000 tons of cargo or up to 500 troops.
 
Wait what. They have triremes being used for naval superiority in open waters against people with actually good designs like junks? That. Glargle. Argblarg. DOES NOT COMPUTE!
 
Wait what. They have triremes being used for naval superiority in open waters against people with actually good designs like junks? That. Glargle. Argblarg. DOES NOT COMPUTE!

No, don't you understand? The triremes have"a bank of 100 oars in combat, giving them unmatched maneuverability. "

They have rowers, so they can out turn and outspeed any other ship in existence.

I would also like to point out that in Exalted 3e, a Junk giving a broadside of ballista into a junk will deal 1 ship damage. The trireme ramming the junk will do 2+ ship damage.
 
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Wait what. They have triremes being used for naval superiority in open waters against people with actually good designs like junks? That. Glargle. Argblarg. DOES NOT COMPUTE!
I would also like to point out that in Exalted 3e, a Junk giving a broadside of ballista into a junk will deal 1 ship damage. The trireme ramming the junk will do 2+ ship damage.
So what I'm hearing here is, they're not using triremes as ships.

They're using them as expensive torpedoes.
 
You know, I'm actually fine with triremes.
Being used by less developed states.
Who only sail calm coastal waters or wide rivers.
And are stuck at bronze age tech levels*

The Realm using them? A nation surrounded on all sides by ocean, and having need to project power across those oceans? A nation that is decidedly not bronze age or even iron age in tech level?
It doesn't make any sense at all for them to use triremes.

*Yes, while triremes were still used at iron-age tech levels, they shouldn't really be in Creation. Why? Because the technology for better ships has already been invented and spread over the world. You really should only be stuck with triremes if your technology slid that far back.

Okay, maybe you can have some triremes sail from Nexus, if you really want to play up their whole "slave labor". But actually...triremes are really expensive, comparatively. All those slaves to row them (or paid workers, gods forbid) cost money either way.


Actually...if you want rudder-driven ships that badly, just use Longships. Those are actually capable of going across rough oceans and they're fast enough to serve as "interceptors" and they're a well-developed design that could easily be left over from more advanced times.

Mind you, at least we can find galley in general until far into the medieval period. Oar power was pretty good after all.
But only as a supplemental power, and definetly not with the deck plan of a "trireme". There's medieval galleys and Birlinns which had enough freeboard to actually go through rough seas, and you can even find some 18th-century designs (british, no less) that still had oars.

Just...don't use the word trireme all over the place. It evokes entirely the wrong image.
 
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So what I'm hearing here is, they're not using triremes as ships.

They're using them as expensive torpedoes.
Explicitly so, yes - the basic naval tactic of the Realm according to Ex3 is to ram your trireme into the other ship, then unload the marines.

Historical triremes didn't really have enough room for more than a dozen or two marines, so I just consider that more support for my headcanon that the Realm uses a lot of quadriremes and quinqueremes.
 
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Explicitly so, yes - the basic naval tactic of the Realm according to Ex3 is to ram your trireme into the other ship, then unload the marines.
I... but... why?

Yes that was a core early Roman tactic, but it was a tactic because they were pants at naval warfare and good at land warfare, not because it was actually an optimal tactic. Meanwhile, the DBs have a whole Aspect whose thing is Good On The Water.
 
I... but... why?
Yes that was a core early Roman tactic, but it was a tactic because they were pants at naval warfare and good at land warfare, not because it was actually an optimal tactic. Meanwhile, the DBs have a whole Aspect whose thing is Good On The Water.
Note that I'm none too familiar with the Dragonblood charmset.
That said, if I had to play devil's advocate here?
Dragonblood charms might lend themselves to that kind of naval warfare.
A Roman-style quinquereme has a total crew of ~400 according to wikipedia, while what I'm looking at suggests something closer to an average of 100-150 for a long distance junk.

Or it may simply be(and probably is) yet another stylistic choice by the devs.
Or simply a stubborn one, like with the CBT thing.
 
Also, isn't ramming rather dangerous if you're targeting heavier vessels? Unless you're built heavier, but in that case you can't move as quickly.
 
Note that I'm none too familiar with the Dragonblood charmset.
That said, if I had to play devil's advocate here?
Dragonblood charms might lend themselves to that kind of naval warfare.
The... kind of naval warfare that involves 'fuck this whole naval warfare thing, I'ma make it as close to a land fight as I can?'

Those would be some pretty short Sail trees.
 
Note that I'm none too familiar with the Dragonblood charmset.
That said, if I had to play devil's advocate here?
Dragonblood charms might lend themselves to that kind of naval warfare.
A Roman-style quinquereme has a total crew of ~400 according to wikipedia, while what I'm looking at suggests something closer to an average of 100-150 for a long distance junk.
Note that most of that crew would be for rowers. Meanwhile a sailing ship can use a significantly smaller crew, especially during combat. Not to mention that you can always just put more people on a junk. Like, dedicated marines.
 
The crew of a third rate could go up to around 700 men, and even a fifth-rate could have around 300. They can carry additional soldiers.
A trireme? Has about 200 men on it. And the vast majority will be rowers who'll be rather exhausted from, well, the rowing. 40 marines was considered a high number. Sure, the rowers can fight as well, but again in combat they'll already have exhausted a lot of energy on the rowing, which is a rather significant drawback.

And the fifth-rate will be hard for the galley to board, what with it's higher board and all that. In addition to being harder to sink, being more seaworthy, capable of longer journeys and of course being better at mounting weapons.
 
On the Onyx Path forums, Craft and Lunars derail threads reliably.

Here, it's triremes.

Am I the only one who finds that incredibly weird?
I feel the exact same way. It is just so weird to come into this thread expecting to see discussions over the great homebrew being produced by the people on this thread only to find another discussion on triremes.
You guys just don't understand the loathing this thread holds for triremes*. It's one of the very few things there's any kind of genuine consensus on. The closest we have to disagreement is "maybe they used quadriremes/quinqueremes".

* As they're used in the Exalted line.
 
Triremes keep coming up because they're something that is stupid and makes no sense. This thread, generally speaking, hates stuff that is stupid and makes no sense: the level of tolerance for "we did that for looks lol, it doesn't have to make sense" as an argument is nearly nil.
 
I am assuming that the rowers are also soldiers here.
Rowing is hard work. Especially if you're rowing a heavy warship(and if you're in a light warship, you don't want to ram a heavy oceangoing ship). The Rowers can fight in an emergency, but in general they're going to be pretty beat(also, moving from rowing to fighting isn't too easy). Plus, you can put more men on a sailing ship with much greater ease than on a rowing one.
 
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