I'm referring specifically to "Characters who come into contact with aggressive units of troops will be forced to fight them as solo stacks in mass combat, not as
heroes facing a large number of individuals in normal combat. This is a part of the nature of Creation, and Storytellers shouldn't let characters fight individual members of units once the unit is gathered together in the field."
That is an explicit statement about the nature of Creation. Says so right in the text. MC mechanics are ugly and all that. I'm not saying they're good. But that the book calls the difference between solo combats and mass combats a part of the nature of Creation is a fact.

You insist that I am wrong in a factual statement about a sentence in the core explicitly naming something as part of the nature of Creation. But the sentence is there. It is controversial, disparaged, hated, buggy, whatever. But it's there.

I'm not sure why he should give a fuck that it is, if it is so. In the other White Wolf thread, we just talked about how one of the people in charge of Mage 2e didn't detail the magic of the Traditions too closely because he thought that it'd lead to actual players doing actual spellcasting. In real life. Seriously.

People being insane idiots means you ignore them, not hold them up as proof that YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG.
 
I'm referring specifically to "Characters who come into contact with aggressive units of troops will be forced to fight them as solo stacks in mass combat, not as
heroes facing a large number of individuals in normal combat. This is a part of the nature of Creation, and Storytellers shouldn't let characters fight individual members of units once the unit is gathered together in the field."
That is an explicit statement about the nature of Creation. Says so right in the text. MC mechanics are ugly and all that. I'm not saying they're good. But that the book calls the difference between solo combats and mass combats a part of the nature of Creation is a fact.

You insist that I am wrong in a factual statement about a sentence in the core explicitly naming something as part of the nature of Creation. But the sentence is there. It is controversial, disparaged, hated, buggy, whatever. But it's there.

Yes, and so is the charm combination that lets you kick everyone in the world in the face twice. Being in the book doesn't particularly matter - this confers no authority. If the result of applying the statement is dumb as shit, it does not exist.

The direct result of taking that sentence at face value is "we need to create a mass combat system that does dumb shit". What do we do with this?
 
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This is a part of the nature of Creation, and Storytellers shouldn't let characters fight individual members of units once the unit is gathered together in the field."
At the most this just says that fighting a bunch of dudes is fundamentally different from fighting individual dudes, and you can't treat it the same way. "You wear them," however, is explicitly metaphor and abstraction.
 
I'm not sure why he should give a fuck that it is, if it is so. In the other White Wolf thread, we just talked about how one of the people in charge of Mage 2e didn't detail the magic of the Traditions too closely because he thought that it'd lead to actual players doing actual spellcasting. In real life. Seriously.
Hehehe. Maybe said person watched Dark Dungeons, took it all too seriously and travelled back in time to write a book.

People being insane idiots means you ignore them, not hold them up as proof that YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG.
Yes, and so is the charm combination that lets you kick everyone in the world in the face twice. Being in the book doesn't particularly matter - this confers no authority. If the result of applying the statement is dumb as shit, it does not exist.

The direct result of taking that sentence at face value is "we need to create a mass combat system that does dumb shit". What do we do with this?
I see no contradiction between something being stupid yet true. It just means the truth is stupid/bugged/etc. "A certain state requires people to register phone numbers to their name and passport when purchasing it" - that's an example of something that is stupid but factually true.

Of course, Our Creations May Vary, and WW Hitmarks won't be punishing people who change the setting for their own campaigns.

At the most this just says that fighting a bunch of dudes is fundamentally different from fighting individual dudes, and you can't treat it the same way. "You wear them," however, is explicitly metaphor and abstraction.
Well, yeah, 'You Wear Them' is a metaphorical representation of the troops being merely an enhancement of their commander. And in addition to the metaphor, there's the setting fact that organised troops can force their context upon a lone hero.

I don't think that troops are merely an enhancement of their commander in our world - they're way more than that. And a metaphor for representing our world would be different.
 
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I'm not sure why he should give a fuck that it is, if it is so. In the other White Wolf thread, we just talked about how one of the people in charge of Mage 2e didn't detail the magic of the Traditions too closely because he thought that it'd lead to actual players doing actual spellcasting. In real life. Seriously.

People being insane idiots means you ignore them, not hold them up as proof that YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG.
Because that's his fanon not actual canon for Exalted? Sure it might be better than what's written but that still doesn't make it fact.
 
I see no contradiction between something being stupid yet true. It just means the truth is stupid/bugged/etc. "A certain state requires people to register phone numbers to their name and passport when purchasing it" - that's an example of something that is stupid but factually true.

So, just to be clear, I take it you're going to also insist that "Essence 7 Celestial combat charms can attack all of Creation at once" is a fixed, concrete, absolute setting fact?
 
So, just to be clear, I take it you're going to also insist that "Essence 7 Celestial combat charms can attack all of Creation at once" is a fixed, concrete, absolute setting fact?
Is said Charm (or set of those) actually a thing that is stated to be factually true? If so, then it's a buggy broken ugly undesirable setting fact.
Undesirable facts don't become non-facts just by being undesirable - instead they become facts that need to be Errata'd (in canon) or Houseruled (in fanon) away.
 
I'm referring specifically to "Characters who come into contact with aggressive units of troops will be forced to fight them as solo stacks in mass combat, not as
heroes facing a large number of individuals in normal combat. This is a part of the nature of Creation, and Storytellers shouldn't let characters fight individual members of units once the unit is gathered together in the field."
That is an explicit statement about the nature of Creation. Says so right in the text. MC mechanics are ugly and all that. I'm not saying they're good. But that the book calls the difference between solo combats and mass combats a part of the nature of Creation is a fact.

You insist that I am wrong in a factual statement about a sentence in the core explicitly naming something as part of the nature of Creation. But the sentence is there. It is controversial, disparaged, hated, buggy, whatever. But it's there.

...

Oh my gods. Wow. That's like cargo-cult Borgstromancy.

Is... is that what you're taking as a profound metaphysical statement? Rules text telling people that they can't avoid using the Mass Combat system if other people are using it, to avoid both the problem of "One lot of people are trying to resolve things in ticks, the other in long ticks" and also the "I don't have any War, so I'm going to engage them as a solo unit so my Melee isn't capped by my War". The "it's the nature of Creation" is just a glued on bit of fluff, in the same sense that Solar Larceny has glued on fluff saying "it's okay for you to use this charm to bypass people's locks, because if they had nothing to hide they wouldn't lock their doors".

Yes, if there was a Mass Combat system worth its salt then it would be entirely correct to tell people that they should resolve mass combat engagement using it, as a properly written mass combat system would produce the same overall results as resolving it at the personal level, but much faster. Such a mass combat system also wouldn't produce radically different output depending on whether someone had shouted Join War. Like how if a sorcerer casts Death of Obsidian Butterflies on a disorganised group of 200 unarmoured barbarians dressed only in fur loincloths, 200 people are going to be dead or bleeding to death in short order, but if those barbarians shout "JOIN WAR" and become a disorganised formation of 200 disorganised barbarians, suddenly most of them will escape unscathed.

Should we interpret this as evidence that shouting the magic words "Join War" means that fur loincloths suddenly become much, much tougher? Or that perhaps the barbarians fuse into a Shoggoth-like monstrosity that merely loses a few human-like appendages when hit by clouds of razor-sharp glass butterflies?

No. Because that would be stupid. And reading rules text about how you don't get to engage a mass combat unit in single combat and force your GM to resolve a fight of you against 10,000 legionaries separately and deciding that this means that all the bad mechanics of Mass Combat are literally physical law, rather than being a mechanical abstraction, is a similarly unwise thing to do.

Trying to argue that a poor mechanical abstraction is hard physical law because of fluff thrown in around rules text is a losing game. I'd consider your point if there was an actual examination of what "holy shit, area affect weapons are useless against formations compared to high damage single target attacks" would do to warfare. But there isn't. And it's dumb to argue that the mechanical abstraction is the way the universe really works when sorcery is packed full of AOE damage spells intended to be used against armies, artillery weapons do things like fire jugs full of burning tar over groups of men, and the setting completely fails to support your hypothesis that this is what the text means.
 
Is said Charm (or set of those) actually a thing that is stated to be factually true? If so, then it's a buggy broken ugly undesirable setting fact.
Undesirable facts don't become non-facts just by being undesirable - instead they become facts that need to be Errata'd (in canon) or Houseruled (in fanon) away.

...

:facepalm::jackiechan::mob:

Exalted is not a religion. If god IRL provably and absolutely existed and said/indicated that doing the funky chicken dance is the path into heaven, we would say, "That's stupid" and start dancing. Until and unless Exalted is a religion, saying, "The good book says so" doesn't even raise you to the level of a crazy homeless street preacher.
 
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Is said Charm (or set of those) actually a thing that is stated to be factually true? If so, then it's a buggy broken ugly undesirable setting fact.
Undesirable facts don't become non-facts just by being undesirable - instead they become facts that need to be Errata'd (in canon) or Houseruled (in fanon) away.
It's a combination of Charms.

Charcoal March of Spiders lets you attack everyone you can see once.

Grab perception and awareness enhancing charms and Artifacts.

Climb to the highest mountain in the world.

Activate your charms, and kick everyone in the face.
 
I do agree that Exalted seems to be on the 'deeper' half of the spectrum of metaphysical exploration/details*. But I don't think it went very far past the middle of it. I mean, sure, it has fluff concerning the [meta]physics of this or that phenomenon, but very rarely can the reader actually use the text in order to begin understanding the phenomenon in the same way as reading a physics textbook chapter can help me begin to understand an equivalent phenomenon of our world.
The other half you are missing is the part where in Exalted, everything is Essence. Creation's "substance" is an especially inert and consistent form of magic as drawn out of the chaotic Wyld and stitched into the Present Time, and if you dig deep enough into anything you will find similar ways that magic manifests and ways to utilize it. That's what sets Exalted apart from the majority of your examples, which are simply variants on "what we know, with just enough other stuff to make Weird Shit happen" without the basic level, "withholding appearance, absolutely nothing here is working like you think it does," that Creation is operating from.

A simulated computer reality is still drawing from a "future earth" concept to operate itself. The addition of luminoferous aether is still only an additional law of physics, completely assuming the rest are standard issue. These are piecemeal aspects rooted in stuff you or I have possibly experienced, things we can understand. Meanwhile Exalted says it outright: Creation is made of magic, as a fundamental deviation from what we know, and from the bottom to the top it is a place of myth and legend given shape and form. You or I will never live a narrative life, we can never live in fear of a hungry ghost of our displeased next door neighbor who died in his sleep and was half-eaten by his cat, or ask the stars where to find true love and expect an accurate answer. Creation is an alien Otherwhere of strange sights and sounds, and its rules do not mesh with the rules imposed by any natural laws we understand except those superficially close enough to surprise us when they differ.

As for why it is sparse, one part of that is because it is a game book and has to prioritize its time towards concrete, actionable things your characters have the option to get involved in. So outside of marginal notes and whimsical writeups here or there fleshing out the backgrounds behind what we know, it doesn't have Time to dwell on being a physics textbook for an alien and unusual world. It has to be an instructional game guide, a reference manual, and a travelogue all in one.

So the implications of its suggestions often have to be embellished, teased out or creatively patched together where the gaps lay, and sometimes that is simply part of the fun of engaging with it. Not the ages old "a Kid in King Arthur's Court" gimmick of looking for ways to drag out my old highschool notebooks about how to make gunpowder, simply because this latest same-old-earth setting insists that everyone from the dawn of time was too busy throwing left hook fireballs at reality to puzzle out how a musket works.
 
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Is said Charm (or set of those) actually a thing that is stated to be factually true? If so, then it's a buggy broken ugly undesirable setting fact.
Undesirable facts don't become non-facts just by being undesirable - instead they become facts that need to be Errata'd (in canon) or Houseruled (in fanon) away.

And here we get to the root of your problem with understanding how the Exalted community works: nobody will ever accept your assertion that the ability to kick everything in Creation to death a) is supposed to be part of the setting, b) is actually part of the setting or c) is anything other than an obvious mistake.

You're not going to get anywhere by insisting otherwise, mate. Things that cause massive stupid consequences are treated as mistakes, because they are obvious mistakes. There is no convention of "it is written, therefore it must be correct, no matter how dumb". If some piece of text somewhere in a sourcebook doesn't work, we do not jump through twisted contortions of logic to try to make it work: it just doesn't work and is therefore discarded.

This is the case because it is actually literally impossible to treat everything published as true and have a coherent setting or a playable game, as the world would have been destroyed in prehistory by some drunk guy with high-essence combat charms in a mass combat unit with his pet gerbil, among other myriad stupidities. So why are you taking the Tome of Infallible Divine Revelations stance?
 
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...

:facepalm::jackiechan::mob:

Exalted is not a religion. If god IRL provably and absolutely existed and said/indicated that doing the funky chicken dance is the path into heaven, we would say, "That's stupid" and start dancing. Until and unless Exalted is a religion, saying, "The good book says so" doesn't even raise you to the level of a crazy homeless street preacher.
Good. It's not a religion, so it's safe to errata or houserule away the bits you disagree with, without fearing that a mob of pitchfork-wielding jackie chan inquisitors will knock down your door. But before doing that, one has to admit that the undesired statement is in fact in the book before one can go about changing it one way or another.

...

Oh my gods. Wow. That's like cargo-cult Borgstromancy.

Is... is that what you're taking as a profound metaphysical statement? Rules text telling people that they can't avoid using the Mass Combat system if other people are using it, to avoid both the problem of "One lot of people are trying to resolve things in ticks, the other in long ticks" and also the "I don't have any War, so I'm going to engage them as a solo unit so my Melee isn't capped by my War". The "it's the nature of Creation" is just a glued on bit of fluff, in the same sense that Solar Larceny has glued on fluff saying "it's okay for you to use this charm to bypass people's locks, because if they had nothing to hide they wouldn't lock their doors".
It's a reading of the text with the assumption that the authors are being sincere and that the words have meanings. Besides, such a statement is a statement from the author to the GM and/or players; it doesn't have a protagonist-mentality flavour; it doesn't have a hint of being done from the PoV of an unreliable narrator; it's a statement about the rules and what they represent. It is much more explicit than, say, the totally non-explicit statement that Solars can perfectly disguise themselves as Human-Sized Flying Cthulhu without illusions and without shapeshifting and without tools (which doesn't explain how the possibility of such disguises is part of the nature of Creation).

Is the MC combat system ugly? Sure it is. Does it need to be fixed? Yes. Does this player here want to know precisely how does Railgun work so good while Butterfly Swarm work so bad in MC? YES! But the book has the words it has, and anything beyond them will need to be invented (or, probably better than that, changed) by the GM or by whoever writes Errata version 2¾ (yeah, not happening).

No. Because that would be stupid. And reading rules text about how you don't get to engage a mass combat unit in single combat and force your GM to resolve a fight of you against 10,000 legionaries separately and deciding that this means that all the bad mechanics of Mass Combat are literally physical law, rather than being a mechanical abstraction, is a similarly unwise thing to do.

Trying to argue that a poor mechanical abstraction is hard physical law because of fluff thrown in around rules text is a losing game. I'd consider your point if there was an actual examination of what "holy shit, area affect weapons are useless against formations compared to high damage single target attacks" would do to warfare. But there isn't. And it's dumb to argue that the mechanical abstraction is the way the universe really works when sorcery is packed full of AOE damage spells intended to be used against armies, artillery weapons do things like fire jugs full of burning tar over groups of men, and the setting completely fails to support your hypothesis that this is what the text means.
"Thrown fluff" is typically some sort of statement about the setting (including the opinions of persons within the setting, in the case of the Larceny example you posted). Often uninformative statement, or, conversely one providing bad information (i.e. cementing facts that are undesirable for the GM and players), but about the setting nonetheless.

And here we get to the root of your problem with understanding how the Exalted community works: nobody will ever accept your assertion that the ability to kick everything in Creation to death a) is supposed to be part of the setting, b) is actually part of the setting or c) is anything other than an obvious mistake.

You're not going to get anywhere by insisting otherwise, mate. Things that cause massive stupid consequences are treated as mistakes, because they are obvious mistakes. There is no convention of "it is written, therefore it must be correct, no matter how dumb". If some piece of text somewhere in a sourcebook doesn't work, we do not jump through twisted contortions of logic to try to make it work: it just doesn't work and is therefore discarded.

This is the case because it is actually literally impossible to treat everything published as true and have a coherent setting or a playable game, as the world would have been destroyed in prehistory by some drunk guy with high-essence combat charms in a mass combat unit with his pet gerbil, among other myriad stupidities. So why are you taking the Tome of Infallible Divine Revelations stance?
I'd say that it's (b) but (!a) and (probably !c). That is, it's part of the setting, but likely not anything other than an error in the design of the setting, and shouldn't be part of it (at least as long as the current Railgun Butterfly issue and some others remain). But if it's a mistake, it cannot be just ignored - it needs to be fixed, but that's still a mistaken statement crossed out and written over with a more correct statement, whether in errata, a new edition, or a houserule. But fixing an erroneous statement is not the same as saying that there's no statement.

The other half you are missing is the part where in Exalted, everything is Essence. Creation's "substance" is an especially inert and consistent form of magic as drawn out of the chaotic Wyld and stitched into the Present Time, and if you dig deep enough into anything you will find similar ways that magic manifests and ways to utilize it. That's what sets Exalted apart from the majority of your examples, which are simply variants on "what we know, with just enough other stuff to make Weird Shit happen" without the basic level, "withholding appearance, absolutely nothing here is working like you think it does," that Creation is operating from.

A simulated computer reality is still drawing from a "future earth" concept to operate itself. The addition of luminoferous aether is still only an additional law of physics, completely assuming the rest are standard issue. These are piecemeal aspects rooted in stuff you or I have possibly experienced, things we can understand. Meanwhile Exalted says it outright: Creation is made of magic, as a fundamental deviation from what we know, and from the bottom to the top it is a place of myth and legend given shape and form. You or I will never live a narrative life, we can never live in fear of a hungry ghost of our displeased next door neighbor who died in his sleep and was half-eaten by his cat, or ask the stars where to find true love and expect an accurate answer. Creation is an alien Otherwhere of strange sights and sounds, and its rules do not mesh with the rules imposed by any natural laws we understand except those superficially close enough to surprise us when they differ.
I think you're underselling just how fundamental those differences in the laws of nature are. The 'real' world in the Matrix is only superficially similar to ours, and its virtual world is more similar to ours than its real one: the Matrix world has very different laws of thermodynamics than our world.
And luminoferous æther is not an additional law of physics: it basically means that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are wrong/don't exist, and that the fundamental properties of matter are very different from our own, and thus "withholding appearance, absolutely nothing here is working like you think it does," as you said about Exalted. There may be differences of degree, but make no mistake: swapping out a fundamental law of nature while retaining a humanlike civilisation really does result in "withholding appearance, absolutely nothing here is working like you think it does".


As for why it is sparse, one part of that is because it is a game book and has to prioritize its time towards concrete, actionable things your characters have the option to get involved in. So outside of marginal notes and whimsical writeups here or there fleshing out the backgrounds behind what we know, it doesn't have Time to dwell on being a physics textbook for an alien and unusual world. It has to be an instructional game guide, a reference manual, and a travelogue all in one.

So the implications of its suggestions often have to be embellished, teased out or creatively patched together where the gaps lay, and sometimes that is simply part of the fun of engaging with it. Not the ages old "a Kid in King Arthur's Court" gimmick of looking for ways to drag out my old highschool notebooks about how to make gunpowder, simply because this latest same-old-earth setting insists that everyone from the dawn of time was too busy throwing left hook fireballs at reality to puzzle out how a musket works.
Oh, yes, "actionable things" are definitely higher priority. That's why I made my GWM comment in a footnote. That being said, I think it would be interesting to play in a campaign of thaumatological inventors, reading the metaphysical laws of a setting and coming up with new ways to use them, probably in some sort of setting where humanity (or other civilisations) are only beginning to explore the world of metaphysics, and where metaphysical phenomena are simple enough to be comprehended by typical players. Admittedly, such a campaign would probably not fit into Exalted.
 
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Oh, yes, "actionable things" are definitely higher priority. That's why I made my GWM comment in a footnote. That being said, I think it would be interesting to play in a campaign of thaumatological inventors, reading the metaphysical laws of a setting and coming up with new ways to use them, probably in some sort of setting where humanity (or other civilisations) are only beginning to explore the world of metaphysics, and where metaphysical phenomena are simple enough to be comprehended by typical players. Admittedly, such a campaign would probably not fit into Exalted.

My players love doing research. I think the moment they liked the most was when they discovered how malaria is transmited.
 
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It's a reading of the text with the assumption that the authors are being sincere and that the words have meanings. Besides, such a statement is a statement from the author to the GM and/or players; it doesn't have a protagonist-mentality flavour; it doesn't have a hint of being done from the PoV of an unreliable narrator; it's a statement about the rules and what they represent. It is much more explicit than, say, the totally non-explicit statement that Solars can perfectly disguise themselves as Human-Sized Flying Cthulhu without illusions and without shapeshifting and without tools (which doesn't explain how the possibility of such disguises is part of the nature of Creation).
Something about Second Edition worth understanding. A lot of the writers had no idea what the fuck they were doing. A lot of what was written were first drafts meant to be corrected later, but were published without that required correction. A lot of the writers were hired on without strong prior knowledge of what Exalted is and what they're supposed to be doing and without much investment in the project. And even the competent writers were often not in contact with each other.

Second Edition Exalted is a mess, Vicky. It is a poorly handled mess. This is why it is so reviled. This here, this isn't the usual opinionated stuff you see going on as me and Chung and EarthScorpion and Omicron and everyone else who all have strong opinions with nigh-irreconcilable differences debate about what Exalted Should Be. This is pure fact on the level where even those of us who disagree fundamentally agree:

Second Edition Is Fucked. Be ready to houserule tons of stuff and ignore tons of others, because it is a gigantic non-functional mess where half the writers and the main guy in charge didn't really give a shit about what was being done (more charitably, half the writers just didn't know what they were doing and it was just Chambers, the guy in charge, that genuinely didn't care), and the half that cared/were competent were all mostly doing their own thing and not checking with each other. You can't trust it to work as written, you can't trust that the writers were all competent and sincere, you can't even trust that the writer even knows the basics about the setting that you could get from reading the core book, because there are some very annoying examples that prove that they didn't.

Second Edition is bad, Vicky. Really bad. Pretty much everyone who has ever played it will agree. It's a testament to how cool Exalted is at its core that Second Edition endured so long and that Third Edition got any funding whatsoever.
 
While I believe all that, it seems to imply pretty strongly that First Edition was even worse since I never hear about folks playing it instead.
 
I'd say that it's (b) but (!a) and (probably !c). That is, it's part of the setting, but likely not anything other than an error in the design of the setting, and shouldn't be part of it (at least as long as the current Railgun Butterfly issue and some others remain). But if it's a mistake, it cannot be just ignored - it needs to be fixed, but that's still a mistaken statement crossed out and written over with a more correct statement, whether in errata, a new edition, or a houserule. But fixing an erroneous statement is not the same as saying that there's no statement.
Okay, hang on. I think we're talking past each other here.

You seem to be arguing that this stuff is present in the books, and that this must be acknowledged, even if you then agree that it's stupid and replace it with errata or houserules. I'm... not sure if you think it should be used if you don't do either of those things, or accepted as implying fundamental things about Creation until official errata gets rid of it? You're certainly making statements that could be read to imply that.

We're not arguing that it's not present. It's just that we take as read that it is present, and stupid, and immediately move onto "so since it's unbelievably stupid, assume it's being ignored - what now?" You're basically standing on a step that most of us skip over without even acknowledging, because it's so widely known in the community that it can be taken as a given that it's been used as a route to the next stone along the path.

And since you're making statements from that step, it's leading to conflict when you go "well this Mass Combat system implies foundational-level things about how human society and psychology work in Creation", and we all go "um, we're all standing over here on the other side of the 'the Mass Combat system is stupid and we're ignoring it' step, why haven't you crossed it yet when you appear to agree?"
 
While I believe all that, it seems to imply pretty strongly that First Edition was even worse since I never hear about folks playing it instead.
They're...sort of the same, with a couple big differences, and First Edition generally had better fluff and writing. I think the difference between the two in terms of 'irritating to play' is small enough that people go to Second Edition either because they already know it or it has more play options. I know I default to 2E because that's what everyone I know played, though I've read a few of the First Edition books and the writing is way better.
 
While I believe all that, it seems to imply pretty strongly that First Edition was even worse since I never hear about folks playing it instead.
I believe the common statement is that while Second edition has the slog of paranoia combat, first edition's combat would just never end. Not sure how true this is, as I've never played it(I really got into exalted late in the game).
 
While I believe all that, it seems to imply pretty strongly that First Edition was even worse since I never hear about folks playing it instead.

First Edition is generally considered better in the lore and background department, while Second Edition is considered... An improvement in mechanics.

Second Edition combat goes on for three hours and then stops. Very quickly.

First Edition combat goes on for three hours and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues...

...And then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues...

...and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues...

...and then continues, and then continues...
 
First Edition is generally considered better in the lore and background department, while Second Edition is considered... An improvement in mechanics.

Second Edition combat goes on for three hours and then stops. Very quickly.

First Edition combat goes on for three hours and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues...

...And then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues...

...and then continues, and then continues, and then continues, and then continues...

...and then continues, and then continues...
Why is this? I've not looked at 1e Mechanics at all
 
Why is this? I've not looked at 1e Mechanics at all
Stacked persistent defenses in 1e make your rolled defense pool bigger than your rolled attack pool. I trust you can imagine what consequences that might have.

For what it's worth Holden considers that a terrible but easily-fixable failure state, and considers 1e a mechanically much more solid edition than 2e for requiring only minimal houseruling to be functional. Never tried it myself so I couldn't say.
 
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