And you still haven't justified why I should. The flaws and dice tricks are not free to ignore. They are actually a disincentive on their own, even if they don't lead to landmine conflict. Because they are complicated and require a lot of work to learn and are boring to roll and reroll and note down 1s and rereroll ad nauseam. It is boring to use a cookie clicker craft subsystem where you track half a dozen kinds of xp and make thousands of swords before you're allowed to do something magical.

Justify to me why 3e is worth that; why and how the dice tricks and other crap make it so much better that it is worth putting in the time and effort required to learn the system and then why it is worth putting up with the finicky boring rolling, and you might have a case. So far, I have been more than adequately convinced by your own arguments of "enormous investment cost to learn, high running cost to use" and the best you can give me on the opposite side of the scales is "it's not as lethal as the utterly fucked failstate of 2e, and it manages to function despite its flawed systems".

That is not exactly a gripping portrayal of why I should spend money on this thing.

Because this is the Exalted thread and so hypothetically at least some of the people in it might be interested in playing Exalted and 3e is by a huge margin the best Exalted mechanically.

Consider that the two most important subsystems (combat and social combat) of 2e are objectively broken. Whereas in 3e they both actually work and are actually fun!

Incidentally, the dice tricks are honestly not really prominent outside of craft, and I'm just never going to use the craft subsystem anyway without replacing it wholesale. (Yeah yeah "rule zero fallacy" but given the degree to which you've already rewritten one game I'm not especially sympathetic.)
 
Well I personally consider it to "function because of successful systems" which is part of the problem here I think; @Fenrir666 isn't going to convince you of squat because things which are failures and flaws to you are merits to him, unless he's been secretely hating the systems for which he's running one game and two characters right now. And frankly that would be perfectly fine, tastes in games are different, were it not for the fact that 40% of this thread is about talking about how and why Ex3 mathematically and objectively sucks.
Yeah, I think he got to the meat of it, here. Thanks, Omi!
 
Do you think I'm very motivated to go out of my way, acquire the material and study it in order to look for its good points? This doesn't seem like a very effective use of resources, don't you think?
Speaking of which, what systems do you consider to be those that do have enough merits to be used for this setting? (Of course, I'm primarily thinking of the more broad-applicability general-purpose systems, but maybe you have some other list of candidates.)

(This also partially ties into the question of what people think successful stealthy attacks should look like mechanically, given that in real life a success here usually means 'target has no idea an attack is coming and thus does not use active defences at all'.)
 
IMO at least "deliberately obfuscated probability curves" do objectively suck, for reasons that have been much more eloquently explained by Aleph and Chung and ES and MJ12. Designing boss fights is tricky. Making GMs fight the system to make said fights appropriately difficult is bad and the game designers should feel bad. It's ESPECIALLY bad in a game where system transparency is a big deal because what's the point of knowing what the text for the other guys power is if that doesn't actually tell you what effect it has?
 
Hmm. Something I kept wanting to ask: how should attacks from stealth work, in your opinion (you = pretty much everyone and anyone in the thread)?
I don't have deep attachment to a particular answer to that. My point was more that if an attack from stealth is supposed to actually take you out of stealth, then the rules should, y'know, actually say that.

Reading the Stealth Charms section, 3e pretty clearly intends that to be true; there are a number of Charms that say things like, "After you make an attack from stealth, you can reflexively try to re-enter stealth"; I think Thrown also has an effect along the lines of "An attack enhanced by this Charm doesn't force you to leave stealth."

But, uh. The actual stealth rules don't say that attacks push you out of stealth. Like, anywhere, at all. That seems like a problem!
 
Because this is the Exalted thread and so hypothetically at least some of the people in it might be interested in playing Exalted and 3e is by a huge margin the best Exalted mechanically.
It seems conceivable to me that ES's homebrew refit of 2e may actually be better, since it's done by someone who shares my belief that mechanics specifically designed to complicate the process of making task resolution rolls (and the task of designing challenging-but-not-TPKer antagonists) is not a good idea.

Regarding 3e, the dice tricks lead me to there being two plausible conclusions under Ockham's Razor: either the designer hates people who analyse his systems and wants to spite them by making it harder (in which case they should be writing rules-light RPGs, not rules-heavy RPGs), or they think that making the boring mechanistic task of rolling the dice more time-consuming is a good idea (in which case I wish them well, but do not wish to partake of the game systems they develop).

Some of the other reported statements of the developers lead me to the belief that both conclusions may actually be fair and accurate (and Holden's behaviour when he turned up here doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, either).
 
@Fenrir666 isn't going to convince you of squat because things which are failures and flaws to you are merits to him, unless he's been secretely hating the systems for which he's running one game and two characters right now.
I find this a... Dubious assessment of his stance, given that he's thus far been unable or unwilling to articulate why these systems are good things, even when asked, and in fact his position has consistently seemed to be one of, "okay you've got some good points about why this stuff sucks but I think it's not as bad as you're making out," which is, you know, not exactly an endorsement. It's just a lack of/less severe condemnation.

I mean I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that doesn't seem to line up with what he's written.
 
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I find this a... Dubious assessment of his stance, given that he's thus far been unable or unwilling to articulate why these systems are good things, and in fact his position has consistently been one of, "okay you've got some good points about why this stuff sucks but I think it's not as bad as you're making out," which is, you know, not exactly an endorsement, it's just a lack of condemnation.
I am genuinely at a loss to explain 'I have fun' in more detail than 'I have fun'. I enjoy rerolling a bunch of the ones on my roll and getting three more successes. I enjoy having a cheap way to enhance my roll. I enjoy being able to use a dice trick to steal successes from my opponent and make them miss me, an effect doesn't need to be flashy and evocative to be cool, it's fun to just be that good at something, even if it's just making my roll better. I don't think most of your complaints are gonna work out to be as bad as you think on the occasions they end up coming up. I find Exalted Third Edition to be incredibly fun. It's fun, it works, it's not forcing me to panic about character design like 2E does, and it's way easier to run for without maybe murdering my players, and I genuinely think if most of you gave it a real, solid chance that you'd end up liking it. But fun isn't exactly easy for me to explain. It's...fun. Fun is fun. And most of the stuff you complain about don't seem to be working out to actually be the problems you expect, at least in my experience and that of the groups I'm playing with.

EDIT: Also, I love how much Craft lets me go in deep with how awesome I am, lets me play Craft almost like a minigame, rewards me for crafting everywhere all the time, and I look forward to playing my crafter, because I think it's gonna be a blast, when I find an ST who will be willing to give Craft a chance.

I say you've got good points on the math mostly because I have no points, just practical experience with how my rolls tend to do better with Excellent strike as opposed to three more dice from an excellency, and because I know some of these issues won't come up for my group, but might for someone elses, and I can't in good conscience dismiss that. I still think it won't be as bad as you think, but I can't say it won't be bad because some of the stuff you guys bring up ends up relying on ways groups that aren't mine work, and I can't say for sure if it will end up being that bad or worse or what. I'm optimistic, but I have no proof! So often all I can say is 'good point, but I think you're making it to be worse than it really is'.
 
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So, getting away from 3E, what could be done to make Demon-Tattoos a bit more balanced? Because I've got a game coming up and while the ST is very open to good home-brew (she loves your stuff @Revlid, btw.) we both find the current canon demon tattoos to be a bit too over-powered.

My thoughts were that a one dote version would give you one specialty dice in a demon-appropriate field (Like seduction for Neomah or preaching for the Tedojiza), the two dote versions could either give you two extra specialty dots, that are spread out or combined into the one ability, or one ability dote. The three dot version follows the same idea, with either three specialty dotes to spread out as desired into the appropriate abilities, two abilities dotes or one attribute dot.

More powerful versions might work differently though, with a four dot tattoo giving you three specialty dots and one ability dot or something like that. But I'm actually thinking that for them, keeping their benefits of the three dot version and giving them a sapience rating and some of the demons charms might work better. Heck that might a cooler idea all together; instead of more dice, which is useful but kinda boring, you get some of the demons power as your own but at the cost of having to deal with the mad urges of demon you purposely grafted onto yourself in pursuit of personal power.
 
Regarding 3e, the dice tricks lead me to there being two plausible conclusions under Ockham's Razor: either the designer hates people who analyse his systems and wants to spite them by making it harder (in which case they should be writing rules-light RPGs, not rules-heavy RPGs), or they think that making the boring mechanistic task of rolling the dice more time-consuming is a good idea (in which case I wish them well, but do not wish to partake of the game systems they develop).
Having been pretty critical of 3e in my last few posts, let me take the other side for a minute: I don't think either of these are the reason for 3e's dice tricks, primarily. I think the dice tricks are, for the most part, an attempt to answer the question, "How do we enable a guy heavily invested in <Ability> to be incrementally superior in that Ability?"

I think the logical progression goes something like this: Solars need to be better than mortals, almost by default. Well, fine: give 'em free Excellencies, and there's a clear competence gap right out of the gate. But Solars also need to be better or worse than each other; Swordy McStabStab ought to be a considerably better melee combatant than Sparkles Socialpants. That's the design objective.

So: how do?

Well, 2e's solution was to give Swordy a bunch of absolutely devastating "I MURDER EVERYTHING" Charms, probably coupled with some perfect effects. But, uh, we know where that road goes, and we don't want to go down it again. So, no massive overkill superdamage Charms; no (or very limited) un/un attacks, or perfect attacks, or etc. What's left?

In actual, practical terms, the Excellency is still the number one divider of "Exalt-tier threats" from "everything else" - that Tyrant Lizard has some scary damage pools, but they'll never matter if he can't actually hit you. So if we want a granular, iterative improvement in capability, why don't we let Swordy repeatedly buy slight improvements to his Excellency? That can stack... well, if not indefinitely, then at least for quite a ways, and yet it won't lead to him instantly splattering Sparkles because boosting accuracy doesn't drastically increase damage - and doesn't increase it at all, on a Decisive.

Okay, so how do we allow iterative improvements to Excellency performance? We could add more dice... but eh, that got excessive in 2e, so let's not make that the standard response. Instead, let's make each die count a little bit more, either by rerolling it, or by adding successes, or something like that.

Hey, now that we've got all this stuff that keys off of particular die rolls, let's run with that. We've got Charms that get benefits for your enemy's 1s; how about counter Charms that remove your own 1s? Or if we want that same probability boost without the counter aspect, that remove 6s. Or...

I don't like the die-fiddlers. I think they slow down the least interesting aspect of gameplay (i.e., rolling dice) and obfuscate things for players who don't have statistical backgrounds; further, if you're going to have a bunch of pseudo-Excellencies that do nearly identical things, then standardize those suckers as much as you can. This was the lesson of 1e, and it seems like an enormous regression to return to it again. But... there is at least a design goal there, whether I like how it was attained or not.

(Edit: Sidebar - I keep seeing that "deliberately obfuscate pools" quote attributed to the Devs. Does anybody have an original source for that?)
 
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I think part of the reason is also that the system is designed by people who find dice-rolling genuinely fun in and of itself. Not simply the fact of rolling dice, that's just a physical gesture; but that moment of hope and uncertainty when you've thrown them and they're all coming to a stop and you're gathering them to see if you succeeded...

And then your roll fails, there's a heart-sinking moment until you realize that you rolled four 6s, you take those, reroll them, and score two more successes and barely meet the difficulty and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

There are definitely people for whom this is an excitement unto its own; I've talked to them. For some people saving a failed roll with a Charm that allows a last minute reroll of a handful of dice was their best moment in the game.

Amusingly, these are the people for whom you would make the game less fun if you built a comprehensive dicebot that handled all the dice tricks on its own and so nothing was rerolled or discounted or such.
 
There are definitely people for whom this is an excitement unto its own; I've talked to them. For some people saving a failed roll with a Charm that allows a last minute reroll of a handful of dice was their best moment in the game.
That's a really good point. I mean, I don't feel it, any more than I feel a big sense of personal pride at rolling a 20... but that's clearly a thing in the hobby in general.

There's kind of a weird thing here where it seems like the more mathematically minded you are, the better you're able to use the system... and (it seems like) the less interesting you'd find the statistical tricks. Maybe that's not a real correlation, though. Hm.
 
Nah, bro.

That just means you need Melee Charms for social arguments which let you win them by pointing your sword at them and helping them get the... point.

(Ranged users instead merely do trick shots that are so impressive that everyone else falls in love with them and realises that they were wrong)
But what about jumplomancy using Athletics?
 
We've got Charms that get benefits for your enemy's 1s; how about counter Charms that remove your own 1s?
Yes, but what order do those charms apply in? If I use my "reroll 1s" charm and my opponent uses their "Treat opposing 1s as 7s" charm, does their charm that useses my 1s have no effect because by the time that charm finishes executing I have no 1s in my pool, or does it occur before my reroll, or odes it occur in order of declaration?
 
I think part of the reason is also that the system is designed by people who find dice-rolling genuinely fun in and of itself. Not simply the fact of rolling dice, that's just a physical gesture; but that moment of hope and uncertainty when you've thrown them and they're all coming to a stop and you're gathering them to see if you succeeded...

And then your roll fails, there's a heart-sinking moment until you realize that you rolled four 6s, you take those, reroll them, and score two more successes and barely meet the difficulty and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

There are definitely people for whom this is an excitement unto its own; I've talked to them. For some people saving a failed roll with a Charm that allows a last minute reroll of a handful of dice was their best moment in the game.

Amusingly, these are the people for whom you would make the game less fun if you built a comprehensive dicebot that handled all the dice tricks on its own and so nothing was rerolled or discounted or such.

I'd have to say I'm one of them. There's just something nice about rolling dice. It's like taking notes in a hardcover notebook with a fountain pen. There's just something about it that feels real and genuine. It almost feels like you're scrying, throwing Nordic rune stones or something. Then there's the clatter and scooping up all the awesome successes, it's great.
 
Its worth mentioning that they have deliberately obfuscated more than just the dice pools, but also roll resolution and Charm interactions by removing the 10 Steps where each element of a roll was formally permitted its own space to breathe, including the order of operations for bonuses and penalties to be calculated in "mundane bonus/penalty, then magical bonus/penalty" sequence. Instead they've opted towards lumping them all together under "modifiers."

The Ex3 version of "Step One" consists Entirely of "Roll the attack and check successes against enemy defense, if it is a higher amount it has hit."

If an effect requires me to halve my attack pool before rolling, is that before or after I add in Excellency dice? What if I have a penalty to my roll as well, is that penalty applied to the unmodified pool first, or the pool after I add all my dice into it? Would that be bonus, penalty then halved, or bonus, halved then penalty? Or some different order? For that matter, when does my opponent add modifiers to their defenses, before my roll or after? Is a reroll TN effect a modifier, or does it apply After the comparison to defenses when it would be worthwhile to activate in case of a miss? What if its halving successes instead, is that after the TNs or before them, assuming both are Modifiers? What if an effect removes successes after they are rolled, but before they apply to defense, can I throw out the TN rerolls after that? What if my attack target changes at any point during this process, do we just roll back the entire thing from the point the defense changed, or only before the successes are counted up?

These are all questions being asked still during Step One of resolving a standard attack. And worse, all of these had answers in 2e, in the format of "Reflexive (Step X)," something which Ex3 leaves totally vague and in many cases implied to the point of not actually being described anywhere.
 
So, getting away from 3E, what could be done to make Demon-Tattoos a bit more balanced? Because I've got a game coming up and while the ST is very open to good home-brew (she loves your stuff @Revlid, btw.) we both find the current canon demon tattoos to be a bit too over-powered.

My thoughts were that a one dote version would give you one specialty dice in a demon-appropriate field (Like seduction for Neomah or preaching for the Tedojiza), the two dote versions could either give you two extra specialty dots, that are spread out or combined into the one ability, or one ability dote. The three dot version follows the same idea, with either three specialty dotes to spread out as desired into the appropriate abilities, two abilities dotes or one attribute dot.

More powerful versions might work differently though, with a four dot tattoo giving you three specialty dots and one ability dot or something like that. But I'm actually thinking that for them, keeping their benefits of the three dot version and giving them a sapience rating and some of the demons charms might work better. Heck that might a cooler idea all together; instead of more dice, which is useful but kinda boring, you get some of the demons power as your own but at the cost of having to deal with the mad urges of demon you purposely grafted onto yourself in pursuit of personal power.
I believe either Robert "The Demented One" Vance or Eric "Eric Minton" Minton released some unofficial-but-they're-writers-wink-wink errata on the Demon-Ink Tattoos. Yes, here we are:
Ink Monkey Bones #9 said:
Demon Ink Tattoo: Replace the current text of this relic with the following:
Infernal artists use needles of brass and bone to insert chalcanth beneath a recipient's skin, inscribing a tattoo made from a demon's living Essence. Such a tattoo takes on the semblance of the demon as it was in life. So incredibly lifelike is a well-formed demon ink tattoo that it seems to move as onlookers watch, while it does move when hidden from sight.

Each demon ink tattoo is a hellforged wonder (see Manual of Exalted Power—the Infernals, pp. 196-198). It is affixed to the bearer's flesh rather than to a base artifact. As such, while it is treated as an artifact for purposes of magics that affect artifacts, it does not require the purchase of the Artifact Background. Instead, its owner purchases one to three dots of the Sapience Background without accompanying Artifact dots. The tattoo functions as a normal hellforged wonder in all other respects.

Attunement to a demon-ink tattoo costs (Sapience x 2) motes.

Common tattoos and their benefits follow. These are only examples; a specific erymanthus tattoo, for example, might award different Charms and/or special abilities than the one given below.

Surgery: 10/1 hour/2/2

Chrysogona, the Crying Woman, a tragedy mask splaying spidery wooden fingers over the shoulder
Urge: To inflame the ambitions of others, stirring them to intemperate action.
Sapience *: Spice of Custodial Delectation (feed on the ambition of a court the wearer is advising)
Sapience **: As above, plus Harrow the Mind (target believes something that fuels her ambitions), Stoke the Flame (stir up ambition)
Sapience ***: As above, plus Essence Bite (ignite fires by touch: 5L, Elemental keyword), Landscape Travel (extend and ignite fingers like a chrysogona, allowing the bearer to spiral straight upward at his normal movement rate—no lateral movement is possible, though the bearer may hover), Thick Skin blight (wooden flesh, +2L/2B soak)

Erymanthus, the Blood-Ape, a grotesque simian shape scribed upon the arm
Urge: To battle and kill and consume the blood of enemies.
Sapience *: First Martial Arts Excellency
Sapience **: As above, plus Second Athletics Excellency, Landscape Travel (brachiation)
Sapience ***: As above, plus Bane Weapon (against mortals), Principle of Motion, Talons blight (Retractable claws deal lethal damage and add two damage dice)

Neomah, the Maker of Flesh, an androgynous lavender figure sketched suggestively along the thigh
Urge: To exchange services for flesh and weave that flesh into unique creatures.
Sapience *: Weaving of Flesh (see Exalted, p. 311)
Sapience **: As above, plus Second Presence Excellency, Shapechange (change appearance and/or gender to meet the needs of a prospective sexual partner)
Sapience ***: As above, plus First Athletics Excellency, Harrow the Mind (seductive and sensual illusions), Principle of Motion

An alternative, lower-power-lower-cost shorthand might be to have Demon-Ink Tattoos grant some of the benefits of the Unwoven Coadjutor background, with your "coadjutor" unable to actually communicate and instead limited to strange urges and itches and phantom sensations stemming from the tattoo. I'd imagine it wouldn't count as an actual Unwoven Coadjutor for the purposes of EarthScorpion's Charms.
 
I do find Dice trick disasteful, and not only that: they are basically most times less or equally cost effective than an excellency!

Lets take excellent strike: for three motes, now you have an additional success (Which decreases your overall dice you can add with an excellency, as opposed as the situation in second edition) and then you can reroll ones.

What does this means for your exalted? It is quite simple! You have payed eight XP for a fifth of a Second excellency, and then something that effectively gives you another die for every ten dice in your dice pool.

Yep, you payed three motes for a fifth of a second excellency, and a tenth of a first excellency.

And Eight xp for a fifth of a second excellency, and a tenth of a first excellency.

A fifth of a second excellency, and a tenth of a first excellency.

And you have even gotten lucky! There is a essence 3 brawl 5 charm(Whoa, much strong, very essence), called River-Binding Wrath, which enhance your grapple and grapple controll rolls, requiring two motes separately for the effect on the two rolls, because why not.

By how much will your rolls be enhanced? You will be able to reroll 5s and 6s!

Yep, this is a fifth of a first excellency. Hell, less than a fifth of a first excellency, because you can only enhance two kind of rolls.

Yeah, Eight XP and Essence 3 and Brawl 5 for what is essentially a nerfed first excellency.

While there are real criticisms to be made, this one is a bit disingenuous. You're looking at them in a vacuum, basically. There are now charms that feed on your opponents 1s, for instance, so charms that let you never roll one are going to be powerful against other magical opponents. Probably most so against the Deathknights when they come out.

Charms also stack - you probably don't start off using River-Binding Wrath. You use your excellency, and then use River-Binding Wrath which makes every die you add more powerful. You may still be paying a premium, but you're paying to to effectively go beyond your dice cap.

People are also acting like the goal of obscuring the rolls is incomprehensible. It's not - Second Edition combat was solved, and solved down to one solution. Once you solve something, it will no longer fell organic or spontaneous, and solutions will tend to converge. They want it so that you can eyeball if you're doing something useful - "This increases my chances," but not to the point where you can perfectly know that you're making the most optimal decisions, so that it remains gambling. Once you know how to count cards property, it isn't gambling anymore. Likewise, once you have solved combat, it isn't gambling anymore.

Their goal then is to make it harder or impossible to solve so that you can't make an easy card counting system.




You can criticize any or all of these bits. I don't think obscuring combat is actually doable in anything but the short term for instance, and it has serious system costs. But I'm seeing a lot of criticism that's aimed at something other then Exalted 3rd, and at some imaginary game that only vaguely resembles it.
 
Yes, but what order do those charms apply in? If I use my "reroll 1s" charm and my opponent uses their "Treat opposing 1s as 7s" charm, does their charm that useses my 1s have no effect because by the time that charm finishes executing I have no 1s in my pool, or does it occur before my reroll, or odes it occur in order of declaration?
First the Charm that lets you reroll 1s, then your opponent's Charm that exploits them. This is written p.252, "Order of Operations." Excellent Strikes serves, among other things, as a cheap way of defending against Charms that exploit your 1s.
 
1) A player only ever has to worry about one entity. A GM has to worry about multiple concurrent entities and generating entities on the fly in case something deviates from anticipated player actions.
2) This is a game which involves "PvP" - hostile entities are of the same order of being as PCs, are expected to use PC tools, etc, etc.

Do you think, given these constraints, that "drive up complexity for its own sake hurr we don't want it to be possible to eyeball estimates" is a good thing? Obviously not, yes? Because that's only going to work if constraint 2 is not in play so you can decouple PC-complexity from GM-complexity. But Exalted, if you want your PCs to be fighting other Exalts rather than cardboard cutouts of Exalts, cannot do that.

This is not what I said, mister Chung, and I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. In fact, I specifically called out that that was not a desirable outcome at all.
 
First the Charm that lets you reroll 1s, then your opponent's Charm that exploits them. This is written p.252, "Order of Operations." Excellent Strikes serves, among other things, as a cheap way of defending against Charms that exploit your 1s.

And I'm pretty sure 'punishing 1s' is going to be a major Abysmal niche. In First Edition they had a bunch of dice stealing charms, in second they didn't because having both that and an Excellency was broken and having an Excellency was more important then thematic charms. In third though I suspect with dice tricks they will have things that increase your chance of failure (maybe raise your target number? We've seen a bunch of charms that lower it), punish low rolls, and possibly punish every die that doesn't roll a success.

These are all obvious mechanical spaces for them once you have die tricks.
 
Their goal then is to make it harder or impossible to solve so that you can't make an easy card counting system.
Uh, there are ways to deny a One True Path that do not require destroying success transparency. Plenty of them. Combat yomi is an easy one - look at the rock/paper/scissors way a lot of fighting games are set up. The mechanics are completely transparent - the skill comes from anticipating what your opponent will do and using the right counter.
 
Uh, there are ways to deny a One True Path that do not require destroying success transparency. Plenty of them. Combat yomi is an easy one - look at the rock/paper/scissors way a lot of fighting games are set up. The mechanics are completely transparent - the skill comes from anticipating what your opponent will do and using the right counter.

Sure, I don't disagree with you here. At the most basic level, because it's still ultimately solvable so someone will do it and make the cheat sheets, and then it won't be obscure any more.

Edit: Though you're missing the point about gambling. It's not just about making it not one true path, it's about creating uncertainly so that your actions are a gamble, so that you can't perfectly know you've made the best choice with the information you have.

Again, just like how card counting destroys that for poker, but up until you have the math there's this risk/reward loop whenever you raise or discard.
 
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Its worth mentioning that they have deliberately obfuscated more than just the dice pools, but also roll resolution and Charm interactions by removing the 10 Steps where each element of a roll was formally permitted its own space to breathe, including the order of operations for bonuses and penalties to be calculated in "mundane bonus/penalty, then magical bonus/penalty" sequence. Instead they've opted towards lumping them all together under "modifiers."

The Ex3 version of "Step One" consists Entirely of "Roll the attack and check successes against enemy defense, if it is a higher amount it has hit."

If an effect requires me to halve my attack pool before rolling, is that before or after I add in Excellency dice? What if I have a penalty to my roll as well, is that penalty applied to the unmodified pool first, or the pool after I add all my dice into it? Would that be bonus, penalty then halved, or bonus, halved then penalty? Or some different order? For that matter, when does my opponent add modifiers to their defenses, before my roll or after? Is a reroll TN effect a modifier, or does it apply After the comparison to defenses when it would be worthwhile to activate in case of a miss? What if its halving successes instead, is that after the TNs or before them, assuming both are Modifiers? What if an effect removes successes after they are rolled, but before they apply to defense, can I throw out the TN rerolls after that? What if my attack target changes at any point during this process, do we just roll back the entire thing from the point the defense changed, or only before the successes are counted up?

These are all questions being asked still during Step One of resolving a standard attack. And worse, all of these had answers in 2e, in the format of "Reflexive (Step X)," something which Ex3 leaves totally vague and in many cases implied to the point of not actually being described anywhere.

There are no charms that halve attack pools or defenses. And charms that can be declared after the roll state so explicitly; per the rules all other charms are declared before the roll. The difference is just that it's not explicitly keyworded.

And, yeah, I prefer keywords too; my ideal format was the D&D 4th Edition power block. But actual ambiguities are rare.
 
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