Funnily enough, I actually had a similar thought regarding Sidereals, that due to their mastery of Martial Arts they could use their native combat Charms with MA.
(If the Siddie closed Charmset remains, this is also a lot easier to balance)
General Exalted Thread
Funnily enough, I actually had a similar thought regarding Sidereals, that due to their mastery of Martial Arts they could use their native combat Charms with MA.
(If the Siddie closed Charmset remains, this is also a lot easier to balance)
Oh, that WOULD be interesting.
It was also something some of their Charms could explicitly do, in First Edition. Melee Charms, at least.
Sidereals don't actually get the "Mastery" keyword, right? If so, then comboing MA Charms with their native Charms could be a neat counter-balance, on top of selling the idea that "everything the Sidereals do is kung fu".
IIRC, the devs said there were ways the Sidereal could get the Mastery keyword but I may be misremembering.
I'd also include this with Gentimians, since I also remember a dev saying that their creator considered them to be at least as good as Sidereals at Martial Arts. Whether they got the Mastery keyword or not, it'd be a powerful advantage that I'd feel safe in saying made Sidereals indisputably better at MA than Solars, even without considering SMA.
EDIT: And just checking the core: "The Sidereal Exalted, peerless masters of the martial arts, have their own esoteric methods for accessing these effects."
I'd also include this with Gentimians, since I also remember a dev saying that their creator considered them to be at least as good as Sidereals at Martial Arts. Whether they got the Mastery keyword or not, it'd be a powerful advantage that I'd feel safe in saying made Sidereals indisputably better at MA than Solars, even without considering SMA.
EDIT: And just checking the core: "The Sidereal Exalted, peerless masters of the martial arts, have their own esoteric methods for accessing these effects."
Last edited:
Just another 33 pages of people bitching at each other to go before I reach the current end of the thread with the assurance that I didn't miss out on anything worthwhile.
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
The leaked rules have this to say about the Mastery keyword:
My bet is on Sidereal Charms activating the Mastery-effects - it'd be a good way to insert Sutras too.
Which could mean any number of things.
My bet is on Sidereal Charms activating the Mastery-effects - it'd be a good way to insert Sutras too.
- Location
- Asunción
So, what level are the MAs shown in the leak? Terrestrial or Celestial?
The MA shown in the Core do have lesser effects when used by Terrestrial Exalted, although the Celestial Keyword states that "Certain masters of the Immaculate Order have developed spiritual initiations that allow them to overcome these limitations."
samdamandias
Apprentice Plane Wizard
How's that different from most other White Wolf/Onyx Path games?
No bad jokes in the index as one looks for pantalons?
Corebook said:
Okay! This is evocative.
Definitely support there for people who want to cast their Lunar as an iconoclast; but if I'm right, they will have to double-down on "my character is an iconoclast because her mortal life was made miserable by The System, and her story changed when she resolved to break free and the goddess of the moon gave her the power to do it."
This works just as well for rebellious princesses looking to escape unpleasant marriages as it does for slaves or working class rebels. It can even fit a king whose regal power was hobbled by dozens of compromises until he's nothing but a figurehead on his own throne, so long as he's willing to turn over the world to assert his freedom.
But it also fits someone who had all the freedom in the world until he found himself buried in a sudden landslide. Because Luna wants you to KNOW what it's like to be trapped, and will only choose those who have the will to dig themselves out.
It's also a seed for their Curse.
There's definitely a theme of bondage and breaking free, whether the shackles are physical, societal or psychological.
Bonds can be burdensome chains weighing you down with something you hate, or desirable ropes keeping you close to something you love. But bonds are bonds, and either one can choke you.
Definitely room for Golden Widows.
Some Lunars are going to act on the urge to break free from their past and resolve the pain of their loss by refusing the Solar Exalted. They would rather rule the world alone and free from any vulnerable attachments that can be taken away or turn into slavery.
There's definitely a lot of Garou influence here. But it's much less "Wyld versus Weaver/Wyrm" and much more about how the Garou REMEMBER what the Golden Age was like, and how they can't stand the fallen state of the world, and how that drives them to destructive anger. The Lunars are haunted by what they lost, and many blame themselves as much as their enemies.
LUNAR LIMIT TRIGGERS
* The Lunar is hindered or defeated by a disfigurement, derangement, debt, promise given under duress, social moor, or by a negative Intimacy (not by the subject of the Intimacy, but by the burden of the feelings themselves).
* The Lunar is physically restrained, pinned, bound, or incarcerated. Being injured with the intent to hobble or cripple also counts.
* The Lunar loses something for which he harbors a positive Tie, or is reminded keenly of such a loss, such as facing a situation in which that thing or person would have been a boon or being subjected to a deliberate taunt or a heart-wrenching song that recalls his loss.
* The Lunar is faced with the opportunity to advance his own cause by harming the subject of a positive Tie.
* The Lunar is denied any opportunity to gain something he wants through persuasion or bargaining such that the only way left to acquire it is to steal or seize it.
For now, let's suppose that the Solar Virtue Flaws of All-Consuming Grief, Berserk Anger and Rampaging Avarice fit the Lunars well enough that we can focus on those which are significantly different from the Solar ones.
Rather than Chains of Honor, I can see Heedless Iconoclasm/Oathbreaking, where the Lunar goes out of his way to break every promise and violate every oath that he made, as well as being generally rude and rebellious and disuptive towards both his native culture and the local one. It only ends when he hurts someone he cares about (physically, emotionally, socially, economically...) and also perhaps he can woken up by someone getting mad enough to attack him.
Rather than Compassionate Martyrdom, I can see Curse of the Mother Hen / Hoarding Dragon, where the Lunar becomes obsessively protective and considerate of those precious people and possessions he still has left, terrified of losing them too.
I'm not sure how much Heart of Flint fits.
I think one of the images to keep in mind is Fenris Wolf.
The massive, all-devouring Wolf God who was denied his freedom, constantly chaffing and struggling against his chains, constantly tormented by the sword stabbed through his jaws to keep them pinned shut, constantly reminded of the betrayal by the only Aesir he loved and trusted which got him in this situation.
But also the crazy lengths that Son Goku the Stone Monkey would go to when someone tried to unilaterally deny him something he wanted or otherwise stonewall him. Because he refused to be repressed.
Going so far as to break their Castes in the First Age might have been a symptom of their Curse. They felt restrained by their original Castes, designed for the Primordial War rather than for the comfort and peace and pleasure of the Solar Realm, and so remade themselves to enjoy and exploit that peaceful world more suitably.
Breaking their Castes again would be as much about their Curse driving them to destroy reminders of the painful, shameful past as it would have been simple pragmatism.
Last edited:
That...will be useful. So far I've been disappointed by what has been given to DBs, particularly by how weak their excellency is when defending.
earthboy
(verified ape)
- Location
- NYC
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No images under the text means none of it is actively painful to read.
But seriously, the leaked PDF I'm using has a (fairly detailed) table of contents bookmark setup, and of course it's a text document on a computer so you don't necessarily need an index since you can search for stuff.
People keep saying this, but it just isn't true. From the looks of it, Sidereals will have access to Mastery in ways similar to how DB Immaculates get around Celestial:
@Sunder the Gold: It's interesting to note that the only mechanical force given to the Solar Bond in the 3e core... gives the advantage to the Lunar in the partnership.
What about my thoughts on Lunar Limit?
Legion1771
The God
So the circles of demons/devas, it goes something like Primordials/Yozis spawns 3rd circle that spawns 2nd circle that spawns 1st circle? Or is it unnecessary for it to go like that? And can 1st circles be spawned endlessly? Has there ever been an example of an upper limit to the amount of 1st circles spawned?
Actually, is there a limit to the amount of demons of any circle that a Primordial/Yozi can spawn?
Actually, is there a limit to the amount of demons of any circle that a Primordial/Yozi can spawn?
Last edited:
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
There is no limit to the number of 1st circles, and they are thought to number in the quintillions. Each Primordial has a limit to the number of thirds, but that limit is unknown. Each third makes seven seconds, and one theory states that the fetich soul can have eight, with the eighth eventually maturing to a third.
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
First Circles can be spawned by either Second or Third. They do not strictly "descend" from a demon; they are created by them, but do not function as souls of their progenitors the way higher circles do. Once created, they are essentially individual species with their own specific methods of reproduction, and exist independently from their progenitor.
Legion1771
The God
So a Primordial has an indeterminate amount of third circle souls of which there is no definite limit?
Is the fetich considered a third circle or is it counted as higher than that?
Each of the third circle's each make seven second circles each and both seconds and thirds can make firsts indiscriminately, of which there is no definite upper limit?
That about right?
Last edited:
A fetich soul is a Third Circle in all regards, yes- just one with an importance to the soul-structure of a Primordial even greater than the others.
…I didn't actually know Third Circles created First Circle demons as well. Huh.
Also, Autocthon is a special case due to him… well, pretty much mutilating his soul structure. What are technically his Third Circle deva form the Divine Ministers, but they have no Second Circle souls.
Gaia's Third Circle souls IIRC include the Elemental Dragons, but we don't know much about her soul structure overall.
(as an aside, the idea of being so vast their souls are individuals in and of themselves is something I find really cool. Is Exalted the only thing to do something like this? Because I can't think of anything like that anywhere else)
…I didn't actually know Third Circles created First Circle demons as well. Huh.
Also, Autocthon is a special case due to him… well, pretty much mutilating his soul structure. What are technically his Third Circle deva form the Divine Ministers, but they have no Second Circle souls.
Gaia's Third Circle souls IIRC include the Elemental Dragons, but we don't know much about her soul structure overall.
(as an aside, the idea of being so vast their souls are individuals in and of themselves is something I find really cool. Is Exalted the only thing to do something like this? Because I can't think of anything like that anywhere else)
NonSequtur
a body
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
CtL's True Fae... sorta kinda. It's complicated and it's not actually about "souls" but rather titles and aspects of the self.
They're more like joutens, really.