It's actually kind of the point. There are all these fancy spells, all these complex mythic powers with flowery names and elaborate special effectsI mean, isn't this the subset of the fanbase that was head over heels when EarthScorpion rewrote Total Annihilation as a straight-up mini-nuke missing only the mushroom clouds, pretty much removing the bare amounts of fluff it had (the name of Ligier) and making it just "at the apex of his sorcerous power, the sorcerer knows how to blow shit up real good without fancy tricks?" How come now you don't like it?
Really, Omicron? What's the point of this? Seriously, you should know better than this; no one has criticized the spell itself, and instead criticized the name. You'd have a leg to stand on with the criticism of SV if ES had removed a flowery name to make a super simple one, but he didn't. It's an unrelated complaint.
 
Really, Omicron? What's the point of this? Seriously, you should know better than this; no one has criticized the spell itself, and instead criticized the name. You'd have a leg to stand on with the criticism of SV if ES had removed a flowery name to make a super simple one, but he didn't. It's an unrelated complaint.
But... what? What is this chain of logic? My post is the argument of why I like the name; the name doesn't exist as an abstract thing in a vacuum, it exists as the name of something, and so I... explain why I like the name as it connects to the spell? And that obviously makes me talk about the spell? What? Are you just trying to see bad faith where there is none and conjure mean-spirited arguments where they don't exist because you're so used to disagreeing with me? That's not very good debating!
 
I mean, isn't this the subset of the fanbase that was head over heels when EarthScorpion rewrote Total Annihilation as a straight-up mini-nuke missing only the mushroom cloud, pretty much removing the bare amounts of fluff it had (the name of Ligier) and making it just "at the apex of his sorcerous power, the sorcerer knows how to blow shit up real good without fancy tricks?" How come now you don't like it?

Where is that rewrite, anyway?

(Also, agreeing with absolutely everything you're saying on Death Ray)
 
Are you just trying to see bad faith where there is none and conjure mean-spirited arguments where they don't exist because you're so used to disagreeing with me?
No, I don't have some sort of desire to disagree with you, whatever you might think. I'm seeing "bad faith," as you put it, because your "how come now you don't like it" line was directed at a position no one appears to be holding, and comes off as trying to catch SV in some sort of hypocrisy (that doesn't exist).
 
No, I don't have some sort of desire to disagree with you, whatever you might think. I'm seeing "bad faith," as you put it, because your "how come now you don't like it" line was directed at a position no one appears to be holding, and comes off as trying to catch SV in some sort of hypocrisy (that doesn't exist).
How come people are complaining about Death Ray's name when Total Annihilation (specifically, EarthScorpion's rewrite) was fine?
 
Right yes, i forgot that Cantata of Empty Voices is REALLY good against lots of enemies.
Right after saying that most combat-sorcery is focussed on mass-destruction.
What was i thinking there? Eh, probably just "this is an area-devastator useless in single combat, no need for a fancy description".

And I just noticed something else:
The only charm to outright reduce environmental damage is Element-Resisting Prana, and it explicitly only works against elemental environmental damage. Which should leave out Cantata of Empty Voices and a few other effects.
Of course an Exalt can still apply an Resistance-excellency to try and avoid the damage.


And yes, I like the name "Death Ray" too. "Total Annihilation" was "what it says on the tin" too.
And if you want to shout your character something fancy when casting it, you still can after all.
 
How come people are complaining about Death Ray's name when Total Annihilation (specifically, EarthScorpion's rewrite) was fine?
Total Annihilation wasn't in the core book and I saw it as an option, rather than a core example of how to design Sorcery.

It was an outlier, and it was in an optional source book.
 
How come people are complaining about Death Ray's name when Total Annihilation (specifically, EarthScorpion's rewrite) was fine?
Total Annihilation is pretty much a bland name, and it could use a better one (though it's better than Death Ray). The name, however, wasn't changed in the rewrite, so why would it be relevant to how much the rewrite was liked?
 
Yeah.

It's actually kind of the point. There are all these fancy spells, all these complex mythic powers with flowery names and elaborate special effects, growing weirder and more intricate as they advance in power (from obsidian butterflies to magma krakens...) and then there is the apex of sorcery's destructive power, its purest expression, which is a ray of pure destructive Essence. That's called Death Ray. And annihilates things.

I like it.

I don't so much mind the effect or the conceptional purity and simplicity of the spell.

I also like something like this spell, an exceedingly simple form of absolute destruction that exists at the high end of Sorcery.

I don't even so much as mind giving it a comparatively simple name.

I'm just stuck on the name being "Death Ray."

It feels.....out of theme for the setting. It feels more sci-fi or comic book. In a certain way, it even feels sorta incomplete, like whoever was writing up this spell had a solid idea of imagery and mechanics, but couldn't come up with a name and slapped "Death Ray" on there as a place holder while they refined it and never got around to coming up with a different name.
 
Yeah.

It's actually kind of the point. There are all these fancy spells, all these complex mythic powers with flowery names and elaborate special effects, growing weirder and more intricate as they advance in power (from obsidian butterflies to magma krakens...) and then there is the apex of sorcery's destructive power, its purest expression, which is a ray of pure destructive Essence. That's called Death Ray. And annihilates things.

It sounds like something you'd get out of a D&D campaign, for one thing, and that is exactly what Exalted shouldn't have. Exalted has always been The Not!D&D game, and having a spell whose name is Death Ray is just ridiculous towards that end. It sounds so... puny and insignificant.

I mean, isn't this the subset of the fanbase that was head over heels when EarthScorpion rewrote Total Annihilation as a straight-up mini-nuke missing only the mushroom cloud, pretty much removing the bare amounts of fluff it had (the name of Ligier) and making it just "at the apex of his sorcerous power, the sorcerer knows how to blow shit up real good without fancy tricks?" How come now you don't like it?

...no? I never liked that version of the spell. To me, Total Annihilation will be and always has been Dragon Slave, not "minature nuke" up to and including the fact that it destroys everything in the area of effect and no so much as a blade of grass outside.

I loved that Total Annihlation was "And now this area of Creation? It's Ligier's now, and Ligier for all his pomp is Not A Nice Person."

Total Annihilation has a blandish name but you don't need flowery names, just evokative names. Death Ray doesn't conjure up the idea of a giant gout of mass destructive, it makes me think of a Wizard pointing his wand at someone and shooting green rays that make them die, or maybe a Dalek's energy bolt thingy.

You don't have to name it like you're a thirteen year old with a poetic thesaurus, just call it something more... impressive. Like "Geyser of Destruction" or anything but something so... bland.
 
But it was pretty much essential anyways, because every right thinking person wants to use Dragon Slave.
See, Dragon Slave is cool.

It's the corruption of the spell's function ("dragon slayer"), which is a very human linguistic mutation, and which ties into the setting's history.

IIRC, the demons who know the spell's origin call it "Ruby Eye Shabranigdu's Spell" rather than using the human name at all, which is also cool.

IMHO the issue with "Death Ray" is not that it's simple. Simple can be good. It's that "Death Ray" is detached from the setting, dissonant in terms of associated genres, and kinda bland.
 
I mean, isn't this the subset of the fanbase that was head over heels when EarthScorpion rewrote Total Annihilation as a straight-up mini-nuke missing only the mushroom cloud, pretty much removing the bare amounts of fluff it had (the name of Ligier) and making it just "at the apex of his sorcerous power, the sorcerer knows how to blow shit up real good without fancy tricks?" How come now you don't like it?
For my part? Because the Dev's are on record for wanting less of a sci-fi, transhumanist feel to Exalted - hence why 'magitech' isn't really a term in 3e, even if magical devices might be.

The tonal dissonance of wanting a less science fiction-y, more mysterious and miraculous Exalted setting, while at the same time literally adding an effect called Death Ray is... Jarring. It makes me think B-movie aliens are going to pop out from the scenery with fishbowl helmets and 60's-era rayguns.

Plus, as Penguin said, ES was rewriting a spell that was already called Total Annihilation. I'd have welcomed a more esotoric name as part of that rewrite! But not getting one isn't really a disappointment.
In a certain way, it even feels sorta incomplete, like whoever was writing up this spell had a solid idea of imagery and mechanics, but couldn't come up with a name and slapped "Death Ray" on there as a place holder while they refined it and never got around to coming up with a different name.
I get this sense as well.
 
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Apologies for the formatting goof on my last post.

Also, I provided the number for the wrong Danbooru pool. (Why they have more than one for it is baffling.)

pools/4295



EDIT: Upon reading, Punsovi and her sister bear a resemblence to Remilia and Flandre Scarlet.
 
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One of the example ambition 3 solar circle effects is a subtle alteration to the metaphysics of the cosmos. This sounds nice, but what does it actually do? Can let the Neverborn die for good? Can it remove the Great Curse from all the Exalted? Can it change the game system to D&D 4e? What would you say that you can do with it?
 
It sounds like something you'd get out of a D&D campaign, for one thing, and that is exactly what Exalted shouldn't have. Exalted has always been The Not!D&D game, and having a spell whose name is Death Ray is just ridiculous towards that end. It sounds so... puny and insignificant.
Avoiding things that sound like something you'd get out of a D&D campaign is a useless and counter-productive design standard. It's so vague, all-encompassing, and arrogant. Especially with things like names. Want to hear some canonical weapons from 3.5e D&D?
Desert Wind, Faithful Avenger, Supernal Clarity, Kamate, Eventide's Edge, Umbral Awn, Unfettered, Tiger Fang, Blade of the Last Citadel, the Shadowstaff, Bright Evening Star, Celdoriath's Clarion, Coral's Bite, Crimson Ruination, Durindana, Exordius, Full Moon's Trick, Guurgal, Mau-Jehe, Shishi-O, Treebrother, Ur.
 
Would you rather they have called it "Invoking the Ebon incandescence of soul cessation"?

Solarian Lance

God King's Spear

Dread King's Gaze

Blade of Purifying Light

I do like "Solarian Lance" though. Very proper.

I mean, isn't this the subset of the fanbase that was head over heels when EarthScorpion rewrote Total Annihilation as a straight-up mini-nuke missing only the mushroom cloud, pretty much removing the bare amounts of fluff it had (the name of Ligier) and making it just "at the apex of his sorcerous power, the sorcerer knows how to blow shit up real good without fancy tricks?" How come now you don't like it?

When you say you're getting away from all the magitech and going back to the fantasy roots, people may be somewhat disappointed when it looks like you're breaking a promise.

It's like, you know, most people don't care if you're getting chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice cream. But if you ask for chocolate, get promised chocolate, and you get vanilla, you might complain.

I, personally, don't care. But I can easily see why people might.
 
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I think "Death Ray" is perfect. It's a sorcery spell, not a Charm, so it cannot invoke anyone's name - because it's not somebody's personal power. So it's named by what it does - killing people by a giant death ray.
 
I think "Death Ray" is perfect. It's a sorcery spell, not a Charm, so it cannot invoke anyone's name - because it's not somebody's personal power. So it's named by what it does - killing people by a giant death ray.
sure if you want to make the argument that exalted is a purely simulationist setting with no narrativist elements.
 
I think "Death Ray" is perfect. It's a sorcery spell, not a Charm, so it cannot invoke anyone's name - because it's not somebody's personal power. So it's named by what it does - killing people by a giant death ray.
By this logic, "Magma Kraken" should be "Lava Tentacles," Travel Without Distance should be "Teleport," Cirrus Skiff should be "Cloud Taxi," and so on. I mean you could use that logic, I suppose, but you'd end up with a much less evocative naming schema for the whole thing.
 
By this logic, "Magma Kraken" should be "Lava Tentacles," Travel Without Distance should be "Teleport," Cirrus Skiff should be "Cloud Taxi," and so on. I mean you could use that logic, I suppose, but you'd end up with a much less evocative naming schema for the whole thing.

Nah, if you're going examples go extreme. "Death of Obsidian Butterflies" becomes "Razor Buckshot."
 
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