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General Exalted Thread

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I personally feel like bolting a limit track onto the game, and making the whole system ST facing and ST dictated is considerably more restrictive than the version in the book, which boils down to "you should interact with this when the player thinks it's appropriate, and they get rewarded if the scenario is fun for everyone at the table."

I also notice that in addition to getting rid of differences in type, you've basically gotten rid of any difference in severity of the curse based on splat. Like, Dragon-Blooded and Liminals have an easier time with this compared to Celestials as presented by the book, but with yours they'd have it just as bad.
 
Gazetteer said:
I personally feel like bolting a limit track onto the game, and making the whole system ST facing and ST dictated is considerably more restrictive than the version in the book, which boils down to "you should interact with this when the player thinks it's appropriate, and they get rewarded if the scenario is fun for everyone at the table."
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I have to admit the main thing I'm not fond of in Essence as it stands is that Limit is more or less a strict binary - you either aren't pinging your Intimacies and/or Virtues, or you're not and you're flying off the hook. As for the ST-facing element of the thing, I admit I kind of wanted to have a bit more of a 'stick' element to it.
Gazetteer said:
I also notice that in addition to getting rid of differences in type, you've basically gotten rid of any difference in severity of the curse based on splat. Like, Dragon-Blooded and Liminals have an easier time with this compared to Celestials as presented by the book, but with yours they'd have it just as bad.
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I did think about that, actually, and one idea I had was that DBs and other terrestrial-level Exalts only really have to deal with the 'carrot' element of the thing, where the ST goes 'I'll give you a Milestone if you act according to this passion'.

But I do see your points. It's not a perfect system, and getting some feedback on it is definitely useful.
 
QafianSage said:
As for the ST-facing element of the thing, I admit I kind of wanted to have a bit more of a 'stick' element to it.
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Yeah, I'm with Gazetteer on this score. Making the Limit system primarily punitive and ST-facing is a very bad combo to me, and unpleasantly reminds me of all the problems I had with 3e's Limit system.

Bluntly, in my view if an edition of Exalted is going to have a limit break system, it should not be legal for the ST to trigger it, or to define how it works, without the player's input and agreement. That's like, my minimum bar to avoid session-souring experiences. Essence clears that bar comfortably, your homebrew does not.
 
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Imrix said:
Bluntly, in my view if an edition of Exalted is going to have a limit break system, it should not be legal for the ST to trigger it, or to define how it works if triggered without the player's input and agreement. That's like, my minimum bar to avoid session-souring experiences. Essence clears that bar comfortably, your homebrew does not.
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The fastest way to ruin someone else's experience in a roleplaying game is to take away agency from the player in question.

"I try to X" "You rolled low, so you fail" is one thing. I'm even okay with "that goes against your definining intimacy, you gain limit". But "I am now going to tell you what your character is doing for the rest of the session" is a quick way to end up on r/rpghorrorstories.
 
Wrote up some Cecelyne charms.

Not gonna lie, I wrote these so you could Sailor Moon Speech at enemeis. Almost called the first one "In the Name of The Moon, I'll Punish You!"


Baseless Accusation Methodology

Cost: 5m; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Illusion
Duration: Instant, One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Counter-Pronouncement Of Enthymemic Law

The Judges of Cecelyne are swift in their ruling, for they care not whether their accusations are true. In Hell, everyone is guilty of something.

This charm can be used to enhance social attacks which accuse others of a crime and/or which sentence the accused to some punishment. The Infernal rolls her (Charisma + Performance) and compares her successes to the MDVs of onlookers. The Infernal, and all characters with an MDV lower than the Infernal's successes on this role instantly gains an intimacy of Loyalty to the laws the accused has transgressed.

In addition, for the rest of the scene they consider the Infernal justified in any actions she takes to apprehend the accused and in any punishment she metes out for his crimes. This is an illusion effect which costs 2WP to resist or remove.

Brotherhood of Shared Guilt

Cost: -; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK,
Duration: Instant, One Scene, Servitude
Prerequisite Charms: Baseless Accusation Methodology

It is not enough for Cecelyne to hand down punishments from on high, for well she knows the resentment such actions bring. Instead, she makes her subjects complicit in her cruelty, and so prevents rebellion through shared guilt.

This charm acts as an upgrade to it's prerequisite. For the rest of the scene, anyone affected by that charm must do everything they can to help the Infernal apprehend and punish the accused. This is a servitude effect.

In addition, their guilt over their actions prevents the onlookers from examining them too closely. The onlookers will not willingly re-examine the Infernal's behaviour or their own, and should someone else prompt an examination, they must spend four willpower to accept their own culpability in letting the warlock hurt an innocent in this way.

Heretic Branding Scar

Cost: 5m, 1 WP; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK,
Duration: Instant, Sorcerous, Obvious
Prerequisite Charms: Baseless Accusation Methodology

It is not enough that the Infernal make the accused suffer for their crimes. The whole world must be made aware, and the accused made an example of.
This charm may be used whenever the Infernal passes judgement on another character, or sees someone do the same. Should the target not resist, then both their crime and their punishment are tattooed across their body in glowing blue letters. These letters make their crime and punishment Obvious to all who see them.
When activating this charm, the Infernal may choose to activate Baseless Accusation Methodology and any of it's upgrades as well. If they do so, then anyone who looks at the mark is affected by that charm, as if the Infernal had just activated it.
 
Wait, so Heretic Branding Scar only works if the target doesn't resist?

Why wouldn't they, when the alternative is to be branded with their crime forever and cause free social influence to hate them and their crime in particular?
 
HalfTangible said:
Wait, so Heretic Branding Scar only works if the target doesn't resist?

Why wouldn't they, when the alternative is to be branded with their crime forever and cause free social influence to hate them and their crime in particular?
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Well, one assumes if you're incapacitated you can't resist.

I will say it needs more clarification on what 'resist' means.
 
Today, in exalted , our Emperyal Player has breifly aquired a Laser Panther. We have also discovered highly capable Combat Squirrel's, and a Giant, Sapient, Carnivorous Tulip. Inside of a Tower that's clearly bigger on the inside, with Doors that are Not Doors. This is going to be a strange fight.
 
Very flavourful Charms.

Power level on the first two is worrying, though. Particularly Brotherhood of Shared Guilt. Instantly turning crowds of bystanders into obedient servants is quite something, even if it's temporary and specific in purpose.

Lets you zap all the target's allies for 2wp, too.

PS: I'm curious, the similarity to the justice SMA I sketched out here a while back deliberate or coincidental?
 
I've been thinking a lot lately about Abyssals as Attribute Exalts.
  • Abyssals have struggled with being "Solars painted black" while Infernals managed to carve out their own niche, and I think a lot of that is that Infernals aren't Ability Exalts.
  • As far as Dark Mirror theming goes, Attribute/Ability seems like a good reflection.
  • Liminals, Attribute Exalts, were split off from Abyssals so they could be more focused on emulating the Deathlords like the Infernals emulate the Yozis. If they were merged back together, they could keeping the beautiful/horrifying dichotomy they tried for in 2e.
  • Attribute Exalts tend to have something about what they are that sets them apart in a more extreme way than Ability Exalts: Lunars have fluid forms, Alchemicals are golems, and Getimians are from an alternate timeline. Abyssals seem to fight this pattern by being Exalted at the brink of death and being kind of undead.
What do you think?
 
Indivisible said:
I've been thinking a lot lately about Abyssals as Attribute Exalts.
  • Abyssals have struggled with being "Solars painted black" while Infernals managed to carve out their own niche, and I think a lot of that is that Infernals aren't Ability Exalts.
  • As far as Dark Mirror theming goes, Attribute/Ability seems like a good reflection.
  • Liminals, Attribute Exalts, were split off from Abyssals so they could be more focused on emulating the Deathlords like the Infernals emulate the Yozis. If they were merged back together, they could keeping the beautiful/horrifying dichotomy they tried for in 2e.
  • Attribute Exalts tend to have something about what they are that sets them apart in a more extreme way than Ability Exalts: Lunars have fluid forms, Alchemicals are golems, and Getimians are from an alternate timeline. Abyssals seem to fight this pattern by being Exalted at the brink of death and being kind of undead.
What do you think?
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... gonna be honest, You seem to be trying to fix a problem that either doesn't exist or isn't as bad as you seem to think it is.

"Struggled" with being Solars painted black? Being the dark mirror to the Solars is one of the biggest reasons I *like* them. They start off in completely different circumstances with far different motives and their powers stem from a different source, it's not like they're literally just goth Solars. Moreover, sometimes you just want a dark knight to your shining hero and there's nothing wrong with that.

>Attribute/ability seems like a good reflection
Not... really? Attribute/ability split is not a reflection, it's a completely different way of doing things. If anything, this seems to ruin the dark mirror aspect;

>If they were merged back together, they could keeping the beautiful/horrifying dichotomy they tried for in 2e.
... how?

And that last one is... just an observation about ability exalts and Abyssals respectively, it doesn't seem to be a point in favor or against. Like noting that "Lunar totems are always animals", it's just... a thing.

Turning Abyssals into Attribute Exalts doesn't help their themes, their concept, or their characters in any meaningful way that I can discern and you haven't really made a compelling argument here =/
 
Indivisible said:
I've been thinking a lot lately about Abyssals as Attribute Exalts.
  • Abyssals have struggled with being "Solars painted black" while Infernals managed to carve out their own niche, and I think a lot of that is that Infernals aren't Ability Exalts.
  • As far as Dark Mirror theming goes, Attribute/Ability seems like a good reflection.
  • Liminals, Attribute Exalts, were split off from Abyssals so they could be more focused on emulating the Deathlords like the Infernals emulate the Yozis. If they were merged back together, they could keeping the beautiful/horrifying dichotomy they tried for in 2e.
  • Attribute Exalts tend to have something about what they are that sets them apart in a more extreme way than Ability Exalts: Lunars have fluid forms, Alchemicals are golems, and Getimians are from an alternate timeline. Abyssals seem to fight this pattern by being Exalted at the brink of death and being kind of undead.
What do you think?
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elfgames said:
Didn't ES make this exact argument like 5 years ago already?
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Yeah, and I think @Revlid ended up convincing him it wasn't a great avenue to pursue.
 
Honestly, one wild thought I've had about ExEss is that you could have a good system where all universal charms are ability based and all exalt specific charms are attribute based.
 
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HalfTangible said:
... gonna be honest, You seem to be trying to fix a problem that either doesn't exist or isn't as bad as you seem to think it is.

"Struggled" with being Solars painted black? Being the dark mirror to the Solars is one of the biggest reasons I *like* them. They start off in completely different circumstances with far different motives and their powers stem from a different source, it's not like they're literally just goth Solars. Moreover, sometimes you just want a dark knight to your shining hero and there's nothing wrong with that.

>Attribute/ability seems like a good reflection
Not... really? Attribute/ability split is not a reflection, it's a completely different way of doing things. If anything, this seems to ruin the dark mirror aspect;

>If they were merged back together, they could keeping the beautiful/horrifying dichotomy they tried for in 2e.
... how?

And that last one is... just an observation about ability exalts and Abyssals respectively, it doesn't seem to be a point in favor or against. Like noting that "Lunar totems are always animals", it's just... a thing.

Turning Abyssals into Attribute Exalts doesn't help their themes, their concept, or their characters in any meaningful way that I can discern and you haven't really made a compelling argument here =/
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A lot of my musing is coming from thinking about how to re-merge Liminals and Abyssals, since I disagree with the old devs decision to split the two so that Abyssals could have 'a more focused experience' of emulating the Deathlords. A lot of Liminal charms in Essence are cool, but they also seem like they could work as Abyssal charms, and Liminals don't have the greatest breadth story-wise.

When I said "Solars painted black" I was referring to Mirror charms and Abyssals having charms that were worse versions of Solar charms. Their powers stem from a different source, but in the past 2 editions this just made them inferior Solars. Do you remember all those charms that only worked in the Underworld or Shadowlands? I want Abyssals to have distinct mechanics so that people

In 2nd Edition, when Abyssals gained Essence they had to choose to either spend xp on raising their appearance by a dot or decrease their appearance by a dot. It was pretty dumb, but I like the idea of undead exalts getting to show their horrifying side by turning into a monster, especially if it's distinct from Infernal shintai.


The last point was wondering if they were close enough to fit the pattern. Lunars gain their powers from being shapeshifters with ties to witchery. Alchemicals gain their powers from being artificial beings who incorporate magitechnology into their forms. Getimians gain their powers from being from an alternative universe, and by imposing that universe on Creation. Liminals gain their powers from being reanimated corpses, which is close to Abyssals gaining their powers from being dead and then being reanimated by Exaltation.

@Imrix those posts had some strong arguments against Abyssals as Attribute Exalts.
 
Most of the Abyssal problems with being Solars painted black were either self-inflicted or rooted in the limitations of the old system.

MoEP: Abyssals notably discarded their old signature mechanic of entropy charms which took dice from your opponent's pools in favour of greater symmetry with the Solars Exalted but besides that there's places where Ex3 allows mechanics to be more tailored to the situation, for example without a concept of "perfect soak" there's simply no good reason for Adamant Skin Technique and Wounds Mean Nothing to be mechanically identical charms.
 
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