Looking through some old threads, I was wondering... are Exalted's game mechanics actually canon? I've never seen a word of god statement on it before.
General Exalted Thread
Kylar
In Training Forever
- Location
- Canada
Oh god. This can of worms.
Look, all games have a degree of abstraction in simulating the game world. That said, the effects are totally canonical. Perfect defenses stop any attack, flurries produce loads of attacks, Solar can shoot guys from miles away with bows etc. That's well supported fluff wise. But then you have DB breeding mechanics, that got the current dev Holden to say 'look, mechanics are not a physics engine' in response to the DB breeding pogrom crowd.
So the effects are largely meant to be simulationistic, but to what extent you play them as so is up to you, and get fuzzy in many cases. What part inspired this question?
Take a look at this.
How do we know this is canon? A weapon can break during this process, so what happens if the Solar is using a 'mundane weapon' and tries to block a 200 gigaton punch? If the weapon breaks, how would it still be blocked (in in-universe terms)?Exalted Second Edition Corebook (p. 193) said:
Furthermore, it goes on to specify mundane weapons would break, suggesting that non-mundane weapons (ie Orichalcum) wouldn't break. But how could this be if they're facing, say, infinite energy? That would require the Solar to produce infinite energy as well- but this is impossible as Solars can't, they have finite Essence and mote pools (in most cases).
Short answer: Because magic.
Slightly longer answer: A mundane weapon parries a horribly powerful attack, but breaks. It still successfully parried. Is that hard to understand? Though it might've been good if they had specified what a mundane weapon is and what a non-mundane weapon is. I guess it's Artifacts?
Fluff reason for why a non-mundane weapon wouldn't break when a mundane would could be that the Solar magic (this one, at least) can't reinforce something so fragile (the mundane weapon) too much, while a non-mundane weapon is tough enough for it to work.
Slightly longer answer: A mundane weapon parries a horribly powerful attack, but breaks. It still successfully parried. Is that hard to understand? Though it might've been good if they had specified what a mundane weapon is and what a non-mundane weapon is. I guess it's Artifacts?
Fluff reason for why a non-mundane weapon wouldn't break when a mundane would could be that the Solar magic (this one, at least) can't reinforce something so fragile (the mundane weapon) too much, while a non-mundane weapon is tough enough for it to work.
If a Solar blocks a "200 gigatonne" punch with a chopstick (which is an improvised weapon) and HGD, then the punch is stopped, the hostile's move ends, and then the chopstick snaps in half. And then the Solar makes a pithy comment like "I like my dinner hot", which is a two dice stunt.
(the Solar better have an immunity to environmental effects Charm up so they can survive the aftereffects of that punch, but that's just an environmental effect so once you have that Charm up, you can just shrug off little things like 'being at the genre of a continent-destroying fireball' or 'there not being any air')
And yes, if they have an orichalcum dining chopstick, which is therefore a magical improvised weapon, then the chopstick does not break. They do this by Exalted going "infinite energy? Cute. I perfectly defend." "But infinite..." "I. Perfectly. Defend."
Exalted gives not a flying fuck about how much energy you throw at a perfect defence. Malfeas can slam layers of his Dyson shell together to try to crush an Exalt, and it doesn't work.
(there are a race of beings in Exalted who throw around INFINITE ENERGY and A PUNCH WHICH CANNOT BE STOPPED and MY SWORD CAN EXTINGUISH THE STARS!. They're called Raksha. "Creation says no" is the usual response to their claims.)
But how does the Solar reinforce it? His/her Essence is finite, so how would they protect against an attack that would deal out infinite damage?
But how do we know that this is beyond game mechanics?
By perfectly defending.
Exalted don't give a shit how much energy you throw at a perfect defence. It still misses. Just like how mathematicians don't give a shit how big the number you're multiplying by zero is, the end result is still going to equal zero.
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Say this after me: "Perfect Defense, exactly what it says on the tin*"
*Flaws of invulnerability excepted.
Howdy, everyone! I was snooping around for Exalted revisions and rewrites and stumbled across this thread. I am quite satisfied that I did so, and made this account in order to join in the fun. I'm probably in the minority for feeling this way, but I think Exalted 2.5 is still fun to play, even if both the players and the Storytellers have to digest a lot of errata and wave their hands a lot. I've a couple games on the horizon for players that have largely never played any tabletop games before, and I was hoping to get some constructive advice for how to help make the game easier and more enjoyable.
One of the main issues that I've seen come up time and again is the sheer lethality of the combat system. Throwing oceans of dice and destroying foes with a single attack is aesthetically pleasing, but not very fun for player characters on the receiving end. One fix that I want to implement also helps displace some of the emphasis on Dexterity as a god-stat. I'm going to put it under a spoiler tag for brevity.
Along with this, I plan to buff Ox-Body Technique a little bit (the new version is slightly weaker than all three previous options of the old Charm put together), and a few other things here and there. I'll get to those with subsequent posts, so as to keep the focus on the main question. Now, after much banter, I'm eager to hear your feedback.
One of the main issues that I've seen come up time and again is the sheer lethality of the combat system. Throwing oceans of dice and destroying foes with a single attack is aesthetically pleasing, but not very fun for player characters on the receiving end. One fix that I want to implement also helps displace some of the emphasis on Dexterity as a god-stat. I'm going to put it under a spoiler tag for brevity.
An attack may gain no more extra successes than the lower of the attacker's Strength or the appropriate Ability for the weapon used. Thus, a swordsman with Strength 3 and Melee 5 could add at most three dice to the raw damage to his attack, even if he rolled more than three extra successes against his opponent's DV. The cap for extra successes is equal to the rating of the relevant Ability for fixed-damage weapons that do not add the wielder's Strength. Crossbow and firewand wielders, for instance, could benefit from no more than (Archery) successes.
Certain effects, such as Solar Hero Form and Hungry Tiger Technique, multiply extra successes' contribution to the raw damage pool. When such effects come into play, the total number of extra successes before the multiplication effect must follow the cap described above. Consider again a swordsman with Strength 3 and Melee 5. If he activates Hungry Tiger Technique to double his extra successes for the purpose of calculating raw damage, he may add two dice to his raw damage with one extra attack success, four dice on two extra successes, or six dice with three or more extra successes.
Certain effects, such as Solar Hero Form and Hungry Tiger Technique, multiply extra successes' contribution to the raw damage pool. When such effects come into play, the total number of extra successes before the multiplication effect must follow the cap described above. Consider again a swordsman with Strength 3 and Melee 5. If he activates Hungry Tiger Technique to double his extra successes for the purpose of calculating raw damage, he may add two dice to his raw damage with one extra attack success, four dice on two extra successes, or six dice with three or more extra successes.
Along with this, I plan to buff Ox-Body Technique a little bit (the new version is slightly weaker than all three previous options of the old Charm put together), and a few other things here and there. I'll get to those with subsequent posts, so as to keep the focus on the main question. Now, after much banter, I'm eager to hear your feedback.
- Location
- Gladstone, OR
Basically, as I'll be throwing down in future Solar/Exalted Essays, Exalted Essence and by extension their magic/Charms has a certain kind of unique primacy.
Basically, before the Exalted, 'perfect effects' including defenses existed, but they were either the kinds the Primordials had (which are woogy and we only see the Yozi versions, which may have functioned differently). Or the ones given to Gods under their various Divine Subordination of Ability effects.
(I should point out that as of 2e, DSoA is essentially a Solar Perfect defense for playability reasons. Easier to understand, not necessarily indicative of how it actually works.)
Basically, Primordials made the Charms (indirectly) of pretty much everyone else beneath them, and those limits were pretty well baked in.
Anyway, when the Exalted were made, they basically were imbued with a very specific quality- Primacy. Their charms often have no weight class- They work, hands down. There are no hoops to jump through. It is an axiomatic statement of their magic that says "This works, it does not matter what I'm using it for/against, it works."
So when a Solar says "I parry the mountain with Heavenly Guardian Defense", they are invoking that Exalted Magic Primacy that says "I [X] it. Set all parameters to "It doesn't hit me. This is how my magic works. End of story."
It may not be a good idea, it may not be the right thing to use, but man, if you want to parry the mountain, you parry the mountain.
Now I really need to stress this: An Exalt's individual charms, the primacy granted by how they work, especially their PDs, is not the same as narrative primacy. I.E. An Exalt can be beaten, they can make bad choices like chosing not to defend, or somehow get caught up in their Flaw of Invulnerability.
Basically, Exalted Charm primacy ends at the conclusion of the Action, it's not a statement of what they have a narrative/player game right to.
That's very explanatory, to say in the least... but would you happen to have a source?
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
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- He/They
The entire Exalted setting is based on the idea that Concepts are what rule, not conventional physics. It just so happens that the concepts generally line up with conventional physics. What more of a source do you need?
Something where that's actually explained, sorry.
Well, given that infinite damage attacks exist, and are stopped per the rules by Perfect Defenses, I'm confused as to what you're asking.
NemiTheNen
Perpetual Phone Poster
So, if/when I get more comfortable with Exalted's flavor and such, I'm thinking of, possibly, stapling it to a modified FATE system. (Amber diceless also somewhat appeals, oddly)
Despite all the awesome LARP stories my friends have told me (I seriously know a guy out here in the tristate that can literally say he won the Mortals game years ago) I have a hateon for the Storyteller system, Maybe you can blame my old GM for not letting me get away with shit (and not keeping track of his own damn scenarios).
But maybe I'll wait for third edition before I start.
Despite all the awesome LARP stories my friends have told me (I seriously know a guy out here in the tristate that can literally say he won the Mortals game years ago) I have a hateon for the Storyteller system, Maybe you can blame my old GM for not letting me get away with shit (and not keeping track of his own damn scenarios).
But maybe I'll wait for third edition before I start.
But what I was confused on is how a perfect defense can stop infinite damage. The Solar doesn't generate the infinite energy needed to block it, certainly.
Explain how you know that, including sources.
IIRC, someone already did FATE Exalted.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
If Creation worked on the idea that an Infinite energy defense is needed to stop an Infinite energy attack, there wouldn't be infinite energy attacks. It works on the idea of concepts, with Essence just being the concept of 'infinite possibility' given form. You don't need infinite energy to create infinite energy, you just need something designed around the concept of an absolute, such as 'I will block any attack that comes at me.'
Roadie
A plate full of blins and a cat nearby.
Because it says so.
That's it, when it really comes down to it. Because it says so.
It's not a cause-and-effect with a scientific basis, it's a conceptual effect that flatly overrides the normal nature of reality.
- Location
- Gladstone, OR
There is no 'Source' per se, short of me having read most of the books and various articles written by Borgstrom and the like as to the nature of the setting. Most of what I described is 'inferred' yes.
Short version: It works because it says it works.
NemiTheNen
Perpetual Phone Poster
Here's a two Fate Exalted that I found.
I can't really speak for how good they are, I don't really know FATE, but they're there.
The First and The Second.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
What's FATE?