Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
The fact that this isn't the case also rather puts the lie to the idea that it's a common element to shapeshifter stories, because no, it's only Lunars who have this particular flaw.
General Exalted Thread
But, wouldn't that be dangerously close to being evocative and interesting?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Or undertake a pr campaign so that the entire city state thinks your beastman transformation (and your beastmen spawn) is the utter pinnacle of attractiveness. Train up a generation of beastman courtesans to keep reinforcing that image and you're good to go.
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Maybe it has to do with the specifics of Lunar Essence, does Luna have anything similar to the Tell going on?
- Location
- Washington, USA
All those other shapeshifters have a much more limited range of shapes available. Lunars need the Tell, by my theory, because their shapeshifting is better. Neomah can turn into most anything, but only in the narrow context of transactional sensuality. Hiparkes has a few different forms, but all of them are clearly one or more horses. Gethin can steal identities with their gaze attack, but you don't need an extraordinary MDV to notice the trail of black oil. Perfect Mirror isn't really "shapeshifting" at all, it's a purely cosmetic effect - a solar can't use it to disguise themselves as a mouse in order to slip through an inch-wide hole, or as a fish to breathe water, or as a bird to fly. Do you have any specific example of an "all-purpose" shapeshifter in the setting which lacks such a conceptual anchor, other than Luna herself?
If you want your character's Tell to be better concealed, simply cover it up by mundane means, and supplement the action to do so with The Spider's Trap Door. Wits 4, Essence 2, two charm slots, and plenty of other potential uses.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
No, and that's a Watsonian answer when we're looking at this at a Doylist level.
Mmm, it's just that I'm more willing to accept Doylist reasons for things if they are backed up by a Watsonian reason.
In Glories, they very specifically do not.
- Location
- United States
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If someone finds your Tell, why not force them to make a Blood Geas Binding oath to not tell anyone and then if they do tell, sic bees on them with Swarming Locust Punishment? Really you just have so many ways in this edition to unleash bees. Finally, a game where I can play The Pain.
- Location
- Ottawa
I'm a bit torn on the Tell.
On one hand, nobody would ever suggest adding it if it wasn't present. And it distracts from the main problem with shapeshifting disguises, which is that acting is really hard.
On the other hand, it's a mildly-sacred cow. And it's important not to kill sacred cows without a good reason. People have gotten attached to them over the years.
What does any of that have to do with the Tell?
The Tell is, after all, only relevant for the things that Perfect Mirror is for.
On one hand, nobody would ever suggest adding it if it wasn't present. And it distracts from the main problem with shapeshifting disguises, which is that acting is really hard.
On the other hand, it's a mildly-sacred cow. And it's important not to kill sacred cows without a good reason. People have gotten attached to them over the years.
What does any of that have to do with the Tell?
The Tell is, after all, only relevant for the things that Perfect Mirror is for.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Perfect Mirror can't be used to actively demonstrate your true identity to a skeptical ally. Deliberately making the Tell obvious is one of those one-mote caste-independent anima powers, so it could even be done midway through shaping a spell. Next best thing is iconic animas, but even apart from the stealth issue, those can be faked with Phantom-Conjuring Performance, or Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Style, or probably in other ways, so it's hard to really be certain just from that, not with people like Mirror Flag and Meticulous Owl and Havesh the Vanisher and the Green Lady out there, to say nothing of Alchemicals or other Lunars or 3CDs or... anyway, the Tell is unique and unambiguous. The Adventures of Dr. McNinja » Archive » 4p38
As for "nobody would ever suggest adding it," this is patently false. Someone suggested adding it to first edition. Exalted: The Lunars didn't just emerge fully-formed from the aether.
Except for the part where those phobias and superstitions existed for a reason. Forcibly reshape a culture to idolize beastmen, and it'll start attracting the sort of beastmen who want to be worshipped - many of whom won't be good neighbors. Probably some raksha will come along with them, to feed on the resultant drama, and Immaculate monks will investigate rumors of an anathema systematically perverting the natural order.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not worship, just really really hot.
- Location
- Washington, USA
I'm not seeing how that particular distinction affects the larger conclusion, namely that flipping a natrion-state's policy toward a broad group of potentially dangerous mutants from "hate and fear" to "adore and lust after" is likely to create a lot of other political fallout, including but not limited to increased attention from any Immaculates available in the broader region - since it's such a textbook sign of Anathema influence.
- Location
- Gladstone, OR
As mentioned before, part of the Tell is legacy code from Raksi and the Rakaksha of myth- and then a bunch of other fae/shapeshifting tropes from mythology. The point of the Tell isn't to make Lunar Shapeshifting weaker, but to provide a consistent hook that helps your with your character.
(This doesn't work).
If they wanted to improve the Tell at a design level, they could have made it a carrot instead of an unintentional stick. You get a Bonus for invoking it, somehow. And/Or later purchases let you trade 'a more casually obvious Tell' in exchange for some other kind of advantage. Let the player choose how to lean into it or not. Food for thought.
(This doesn't work).
If they wanted to improve the Tell at a design level, they could have made it a carrot instead of an unintentional stick. You get a Bonus for invoking it, somehow. And/Or later purchases let you trade 'a more casually obvious Tell' in exchange for some other kind of advantage. Let the player choose how to lean into it or not. Food for thought.
- Location
- Land of the Midday Sun
Yeah, it was the same with Wildshape Druids in D&D3E. "I can be a bear/tiger/dinosaur 24/7, why I shouldn't?". Though they usually got the memo on changing in less conspicous forms for stealth.
Roadie
A plate full of blins and a cat nearby.
Re: carrot rather than stick, the simple thing that comes to mind for me would be the ability to optionally receive up to X dots of free mutations that apply to all forms, but you can make a disguise roll (with penalty scaling by dots) to hide them when shapechanging.
That gets you carrot-rather-than-stick and (with some way to pile on more permanent mutations later) the ability to gradually get more obvious inhuman traits 'underneath' as you get more disguise bonuses.
That gets you carrot-rather-than-stick and (with some way to pile on more permanent mutations later) the ability to gradually get more obvious inhuman traits 'underneath' as you get more disguise bonuses.
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- Location
- Ottawa
True.
But that's a very narrow application and Exalts are generally overloaded with unique abilities and traits that can serve the same purpose pretty reliably.
Coming up with an idea while making something is very different from coming up with an idea to add to that thing.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Isn't that already mostly handled by crime-scene related actions with the Investigation skill?
- Location
- Washington, USA
Charms? Any exalt of the same type could learn those, to say nothing of the Eclipse anima power. Artifacts? There's a lunar charm called "Monkey Shaping Emulation" for making indistinguishably perfect forgeries. Physical traits? Perfect Mirror. Nothing else provides nearly the same level of easy certainty in an ID as the Tell, and the only canon way I can think of to copy it would be Black Mirror Shintai - which is still fairly easy to check for in most "exactly alike, don't know which one to shoot" type scenarios, since anyone who could use it would be a Creature of Darkness, and the original's shadow would be missing.
The more important, more central function of the Tell is to remind the Lunar of their own identity. "Everything is changeable, nothing is real" is the perilous promise of unlimited shapeshifting, and also of the Wyld, both of which the Great Curse exploits. Moonsilver tattoos ward off chimerism by effectively adding an additional Tell, a more complex and contractual fixed reference point for self-image.
- Location
- Ottawa
Exalts are really rare; it is very unlikely that a Lunar will be replaced by someone who can duplicate their Charms, their forms, their anima, and everything else, but not their Tell.
Chances are none of the few hundred Lunars worldwide have abilities that close to yours, and even if one does they probably don't live even vaguely nearby, and even if they do they probably don't have it in for you, and even if they do they probably won't be able to manage the details of impersonation very well.
That sounds like a post-hoc justification to me. Philosophy is cheap.
Roadie
A plate full of blins and a cat nearby.
That's what mutations are for.
Oh yeah, please, let's go say "You can just be warped by out of control Essence or be a beastfolk, that's almost as good!" That's not at all restrictive to what kind of stories you can tell!
People, all you're doing is confirming to me why the Tell should not only be in, but why it should be front and center. Lunars have a weakness. How terrible, discovery by the Wyld Hunt is still a looming threat, to the splat that the Wyld Hunt was specifically created to kill. Making the Realm a better adversary does not make the Lunars weak; it makes it clear why the Realm has lasted for centuries despite the 400 or so monster-gods who created an entire society to destroy it. This doesn't devalue the Silver Pact, it makes their personal nemesis a threat that can meet them on equal grounds even in their home territory. If it makes shapeshifting have a minor flaw-so what? Congrats, you have a minor flaw you might need a Charm or a bit of thought to cover, or can play off as a normal feature that only becomes alarming when someone realizes it applies across all forms, and even then by rules people would just notice it looks remarkably similar to other features ("Funny, that wolf's chin looked like it had a goatee like yours.."). I like the modern Tell as a motif or a weakness, because it's the kind of thing that is easy to hide, but can slip out when you're facing another Exalt who knows what to look for.
(And before someone tries to say "But Loser Exalted!", can I remind you that it's also now explicit the Silver Pact is the reason why the Realm hasn't turned everyone into satrapies and cultures can show up outside their grip? "We shapeshift about as well as the Thing, and like the Thing we have a trait that gives us away" doesn't exactly sound like a devaluation.)
To be frank; Tells might need to show up to other shapeshifters. It's an excellent way to give away a mythological hand. Also, I feel the need to reiterate that "beast features" is not the only Tell. Last I checked, Raksi's Tell is the fact her hands bend backwards when she's not paying attention. That's hardly "fox ears." My own "'mortal' graduate of the Heptagram" has abnormally large ears that remind people of portee ivories. These end up actually making him beneath suspicion, since everyone assumes (with his encouragement) he just has large ears. In his other forms, it just looks like he has large ears, or colored patches that look like ears. Even realizing that large ears is his Tell may not help, because plenty of animals and people have large ears - and if they have long hair or a hat, you may not even see their ears.
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- United States
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I always figured the Tell was more something to make it so there's at least something Dragon-blooded (or really any rival Exalt) could use against Lunars, considering otherwise you'd basically be completely shit out of luck spotting, say, a Lunar shifted into a stray cat's form before they return to human form and then Octopus-and-Spider Barrage you into a pulp.