Or use a 'hit immaterial charm' which for immaterials let's them hit materials without needing to materialise and be vulnerable to them. It's why ghosts and spirits are such a threat in the first place, because they usually come with those as standard spirit charms while materials need to be either Exalted and/or pretty buff martial artists/sorcerers/thaumaturges to unlock that ability.
IIRC, the Spirit version of that charm is E5, so unless you have a good reason to have that Charm, allowing you to bypass the Essence Minimums, then most spirits aren't going to have it. The Ghost version has lower minimums, but is given that, by and large, it will be backed up by shitty mortal stats, it's still not that amazing. Moreover, IIRC both charms require one, maybe more, Willpower to activate, and only last for one action. You need to consume motes and Willpower for each punch you throw in this manner. I would say that overall, attacking someone material while remaining immaterial is among the top three least efficient ways for a Spirit or ghost to inflict harm on someone.

On a related note, it still amuses me to no end how ghosts — unlike spirits — can't waive minimums for their Charms, yet Compassion 1 War Ghosts are stated to have Weigh the Anchor of Flesh, an Arcanoi that requires Compassion 5.
 
That would be because the Arcanoi rules and their Virtue prereqs are not great.
*shocked gasp*

Still, despite the hilarity of that dissonance, nothing quite beats the hilarity of 2e Filial Wisdom, the century old Dawn Caste who's army is little more than semi-organized rabble, because in 1e War wasn't a Skill and TWT was a Performance Charm.
 
*shocked gasp*

Still, despite the hilarity of that dissonance, nothing quite beats the hilarity of 2e Filial Wisdom, the century old Dawn Caste who's army is little more than semi-organized rabble, because in 1e War wasn't a Skill and TWT was a Performance Charm.

I mean, if I was fine with the basic concept of Filial Wisdom (which I'm not [1]) I'd be fine with that. I think there needs to be Dawn Castes who are blenders on two legs, but just don't happen as characters to have a greater strategic view or a real talent for leading.

It's one of the reasons I like @Jon Chung's "much simpler alternative to the Dawn Solution" fixes, where you pick 3 of your caste abilities, and get 7 favoured abilities. It means you can have Dawns who struggle with generalhood and Twilights who aren't occultists and Eclipses who aren't stuck with "man, why'd we end up with the leftover Caste abilities".

[1] Much like the Invisible Fortress, he's another product of "not very well written adventure module getting its contrivances hard-written into canon". He's not as bad as the Invisible Fortress, but his only real purpose is to be a "dungeon boss" for Rathess, and everything about him is warped into that one not-very-good story.
 
[1] Much like the Invisible Fortress, he's another product of "not very well written adventure module getting its contrivances hard-written into canon". He's not as bad as the Invisible Fortress, but his only real purpose is to be a "dungeon boss" for Rathess, and everything about him is warped into that one not-very-good story.
But muh Filial Wisdom x Raksi OTP.
 
Well, really, the real solution to this is that Panther goes WHAT THE CHRIST ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT before some Guardian hands him a shotgun and a rad Destiny-style cape and he goes HELL, IT'S ABOUT TIME and beats up evil genocide rhinos with the Guardians. Any other solution is inferior, weak and will not find a mate or survive the winter.
Szoreny: "So, Isidoros and I were hoping to get out early on good behavior, some sort of probationary things, and... it really looks like you could use all the help you can get. What are the odds that these guys can't handle multiple simultaneous singularities actively trying to kill them?"

On a note unrelated to the crossover, what do you guys think would happen if some crazy Abyssal used the Keys of Creation (from Keychain of Creation) to unlock the fetters of the Neverborn, so that they fall into the Void without Creation being destroyed first? I personally think a full Creation/Underworld overlay would be most interesting, and not just because it'd restore the Mask.
 
It's one of the reasons I like @Jon Chung's "much simpler alternative to the Dawn Solution" fixes, where you pick 3 of your caste abilities, and get 7 favoured abilities. It means you can have Dawns who struggle with generalhood and Twilights who aren't occultists and Eclipses who aren't stuck with "man, why'd we end up with the leftover Caste abilities".

3e does something very similar.

On a note unrelated to the crossover, what do you guys think would happen if some crazy Abyssal used the Keys of Creation (from Keychain of Creation) to unlock the fetters of the Neverborn, so that they fall into the Void without Creation being destroyed first? I personally think a full Creation/Underworld overlay would be most interesting, and not just because it'd restore the Mask.

I don't think I'd allow that. Doesn't seem like a fun, interesting, or thematically appropriate ending to the Neverborn.

If you want a full overlay of the Underworld onto Creation, there ought to be better ways to justify it. Actually, you could just say it happened during the Contagion. There was enough death, that's for sure.
 
I don't think I'd allow that. Doesn't seem like a fun, interesting, or thematically appropriate ending to the Neverborn.
Collecting a series of artifacts forged at the dawn of the First Age, and in the process interacting with characters from the Exalted webcomic that everyone in the fandom knows and loves, before braving the dangers of the Labyrinth and the Void to confront the Neverborn directly, and using the keys to free them of the attachments that are used to bind all others in the Underworld to a wholly unnatural cycle, each time upsetting the geomancy of both the Underworld and Creation as one of the beings defining the reality of how the Underworld works ceases to exist... None of that sounds fun, interesting, or thematically appropriate?
If you want a full overlay of the Underworld onto Creation, there ought to be better ways to justify it. Actually, you could just say it happened during the Contagion. There was enough death, that's for sure.
That'd just be Creation becoming a massive shadowland, though. I want an overlay.
 
Collecting a series of artifacts forged at the dawn of the First Age, and in the process interacting with characters from the Exalted webcomic that everyone in the fandom knows and loves, before braving the dangers of the Labyrinth and the Void to confront the Neverborn directly, and using the keys to free them of the attachments that are used to bind all others in the Underworld to a wholly unnatural cycle, each time upsetting the geomancy of both the Underworld and Creation as one of the beings defining the reality of how the Underworld works ceases to exist... None of that sounds fun, interesting, or thematically appropriate?

Ultimately it boils down to "wave artifact, erase past sins and tragedies".

Still, you could make the prelude fun. Fetch quests are everywhere for a reason; they work. And doing basically anything in the Labyrinth has game potential.

That'd just be Creation becoming a massive shadowland, though. I want an overlay.

Shadowlands are overlays. If their properties don't satisfy you, then you can just say the big world-covering one behaves differently from regular shadowlands.
 
Huh. Guys, j just realised something. God mind algorithms allow someone to operate any device without an external battery supply and a connection to the internet regardless of location.

Maybe an enterprising solar finds a laptop that somehow ended up in Creaton....? Could this be an interesting story?
 
the charm just powers your device and allows you to connect to the internet when you couldn't, except that there's no internet IN creation. It lets you get a call when in the catacombs of a lost temple hidden under a mountain, or surf reddit while in the amazon rainforest. It won't let you connect to a network that doesn't exist.
 
the charm just powers your device and allows you to connect to the internet when you couldn't, except that there's no internet IN creation. It lets you get a call when in the catacombs of a lost temple hidden under a mountain, or surf reddit while in the amazon rainforest. It won't let you connect to a network that doesn't exist.
Nothing says that it isn't a teleported laptop in Creation can't connect to our world's internet. Or at least access the contents.
 
Huh. Guys, j just realised something. God mind algorithms allow someone to operate any device without an external battery supply and a connection to the internet regardless of location.

Maybe an enterprising solar finds a laptop that somehow ended up in Creaton....? Could this be an interesting story?

With just that it's Isekai Cliche only a native protagonist.

Depends on what the Solar finds and its applicability to creation I'd say. Is there some aspect of the modern world you're using the laptop as a vehicle to explore in creation? Do you want the Solar farking with our world via the internet from another world away?
 
With just that it's Isekai Cliche only a native protagonist.

Depends on what the Solar finds and its applicability to creation I'd say. Is there some aspect of the modern world you're using the laptop as a vehicle to explore in creation? Do you want the Solar farking with our world via the internet from another world away?
Oh. Apologies. It's just....

I'm just wondering about the differences between our world and Creation. Not the magic. That's not that much. It's the 'all men are equal', the part about 'human rights'. Or 'magna carta'.

Creation is a world where great men theory is true. Where men are distinctly not equal.

Actually, you know what, scratch this. I'll post about 8 hours later, when i get access to a keyboard.
 
Oh. Apologies. It's just....

I'm just wondering about the differences between our world and Creation. Not the magic. That's not that much. It's the 'all men are equal', the part about 'human rights'. Or 'magna carta'.

Creation is a world where great men theory is true. Where men are distinctly not equal.

Actually, you know what, scratch this. I'll post about 8 hours later, when i get access to a keyboard.

There you go. Solar Exalted discovers enlightenment philosophy via a laptop from our world/God-Mind Algorithms. The Solar, for whatever reason, attempts to adapt it to creation, whether as a vehicle to use against the realm/breed discontent, finding it beautiful and wanting to make creation closer to that ideal, etc. It seems like It'd be an inherently political piece given the capabilities and insights of a solar though, and veering into author tract territory would be a hazard.
 
the charm just powers your device and allows you to connect to the internet when you couldn't, except that there's no internet IN creation. It lets you get a call when in the catacombs of a lost temple hidden under a mountain, or surf reddit while in the amazon rainforest. It won't let you connect to a network that doesn't exist.
You could argue that there was, but whether I AM is currently in a state where they count as such in the "now" of the setting...
 
You could argue that there was, but whether I AM is currently in a state where they count as such in the "now" of the setting...
Oh totally, that would make total sense.

My issue is that if a portal dumps a laptop into Creation and then poofs out of existence, there's no network for it to connect to and that aspect of the charm wouldn't matter. Just like if you tried to call a nonexistant number, the charm doesn't make it connect anyway. You can activate Graceful Crane Stance all you want, it won't let you perfectly balance on something that doesn't exist.

That said, if you're doing this for some fanfiction, whatever! the sky's the limit. It's the same thing as if some Fiat dropped a bunch of modern civics textbooks in an exalt's lap.
 
That said, if you're doing this for some fanfiction, whatever! the sky's the limit. It's the same thing as if some Fiat dropped a bunch of modern civics textbooks in an exalt's lap.
Because of the capitalization there, I am now imagining a BROB that takes the form of an Italian motor car :)
 
Bog Beasts
Yidak
Dead by Drowning or Violence


The water is cloudy; insects buzz all around. The travellers ignored the warning and cross the sodden land on planks between solid clods of ground. They do not notice the ripples in the twilight. A glowing green shape draws their attention, and they linger. Then there's a splashing and a thrashing and one of their number is dragged down into the bog, screaming. A river dragon? No, say the survivors, no - something leathery and almost human. Meanwhile, their companion's body pickles in the murky water until it's as brown as leather. He gets no burial, for they fear to return. He becomes like the monster that slew him.

It is said by some that bogs of Creation are closer to the lands of the Dead. Certainly, corpses interred in them do not rot as they should. In many regions it becomes a tradition to give corpses to the bog, and the Dead rest easy. But when a traveller drowns or such a place is home to a murder, then the preserved corpse neither forgives nor forgets. The yidak never leaves dwelling place even as it is stained brown. These hungry ghosts are noted for their cold-blooded patience - and their sloth, too. A victim who escapes the initial ambush will likely not be pursued.

The tannins of the bog preserve the organs and brain of the body particularly well. Perhaps this is why a bog beast retains a certain degree of intellect; enough to stand ankle-deep by the path when mists hang low and call out "Help me!" or "Come closer!" or "My friend!". Still, this knowledge passes in time as the brain degrades, and they retreat under the water. It remembers the knife; it remembers the feeling of water filling its lungs. Their dead breath rises from the water in luminescent clouds that draw in the overly curious. It lurks in the deeps, waiting to drag others down. There seems to be no pattern as to whether a bog beast will devour a corpse or leave it to rot - and perhaps rise too. In some places in the North East, tens or hundreds of bog beasts might lay waiting. They do not talk to one another, or hunt. They just lie under the water in torpor, lurking for the living.

Some necromancers have been known to deliberately create bog beasts, murdering men and women to leave their corpses to tan so that they might guard paths. These hungry ghosts are tied to their corpses, though, and their forms rot quickly if their anchoring remains are destroyed. Bog beasts prove a problem for exorcists, for their sodden bodies burn poorly and hunting them down can require months spent in insect-sodden marshes. Often the exorcist might just make sure that there are warning signs up and that the locals know the horror that lurks in the bog.
 
Bog Beasts
Yidak
Dead by Drowning or Violence


The water is cloudy; insects buzz all around. The travellers ignored the warning and cross the sodden land on planks between solid clods of ground. They do not notice the ripples in the twilight. A glowing green shape draws their attention, and they linger. Then there's a splashing and a thrashing and one of their number is dragged down into the bog, screaming. A river dragon? No, say the survivors, no - something leathery and almost human. Meanwhile, their companion's body pickles in the murky water until it's as brown as leather. He gets no burial, for they fear to return. He becomes like the monster that slew him.

It is said by some that bogs of Creation are closer to the lands of the Dead. Certainly, corpses interred in them do not rot as they should. In many regions it becomes a tradition to give corpses to the bog, and the Dead rest easy. But when a traveller drowns or such a place is home to a murder, then the preserved corpse neither forgives nor forgets. The yidak never leaves dwelling place even as it is stained brown. These hungry ghosts are noted for their cold-blooded patience - and their sloth, too. A victim who escapes the initial ambush will likely not be pursued.

The tannins of the bog preserve the organs and brain of the body particularly well. Perhaps this is why a bog beast retains a certain degree of intellect; enough to stand ankle-deep by the path when mists hang low and call out "Help me!" or "Come closer!" or "My friend!". Still, this knowledge passes in time as the brain degrades, and they retreat under the water. It remembers the knife; it remembers the feeling of water filling its lungs. Their dead breath rises from the water in luminescent clouds that draw in the overly curious. It lurks in the deeps, waiting to drag others down. There seems to be no pattern as to whether a bog beast will devour a corpse or leave it to rot - and perhaps rise too. In some places in the North East, tens or hundreds of bog beasts might lay waiting. They do not talk to one another, or hunt. They just lie under the water in torpor, lurking for the living.

Some necromancers have been known to deliberately create bog beasts, murdering men and women to leave their corpses to tan so that they might guard paths. These hungry ghosts are tied to their corpses, though, and their forms rot quickly if their anchoring remains are destroyed. Bog beasts prove a problem for exorcists, for their sodden bodies burn poorly and hunting them down can require months spent in insect-sodden marshes. Often the exorcist might just make sure that there are warning signs up and that the locals know the horror that lurks in the bog.
Looks really good.
 
So, hmm... would it be mechanically sound to develop a charm that totally isn't Water Clone Jutsu for the Dragonblooded who totes isn't Zabuza, honest. In terms of crunch, I was feeling that there'd be a version for each Aspect, and that'd it create a copy of the DB without any powers or charms (save their aspect bonuses) and it could be mentally controlled.

The same with a Fog creation charm - though I've got to admit I think it'd fit better as a spell. (actually, I think someone has already come up with one.)
 
So, hmm... would it be mechanically sound to develop a charm that totally isn't Water Clone Jutsu for the Dragonblooded who totes isn't Zabuza, honest. In terms of crunch, I was feeling that there'd be a version for each Aspect, and that'd it create a copy of the DB without any powers or charms (save their aspect bonuses) and it could be mentally controlled.

The same with a Fog creation charm - though I've got to admit I think it'd fit better as a spell. (actually, I think someone has already come up with one.)
Dude. Isn't there a war charm that makes fake soldiers?
 
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