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General Exalted Thread

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Well, I'll point out that recovering the Directional Titan would be pretty labor-intensive effort. From Return of the Scarlet Empress, it'll take literally years of mining to reach the point where you actually reach the jade outer surface of the Titan, and then you've got the task of repairing it, and it's a Repair 6 artifact. What does Repair 6 mean? Ability Minimums: Lore 7, Occult 6, Craft 6. Resources Required: 5 dots. Difficulty: 6 (+1 per ability dot underneath minimums). Successes Required: 36. Time per roll: 1 week.

Meanwhile, you've got the "fun" of dealing with the assorted militaristic societies that live on the mountain, not to mention the difficulties of getting up there to begin with; it's not exactly like you can just build a ladder up there! ;)
 
nick012000 said:
Well, I'll point out that recovering the Directional Titan would be pretty labor-intensive effort. From Return of the Scarlet Empress, it'll take literally years of mining to reach the point where you actually reach the jade outer surface of the Titan, and then you've got the task of repairing it, and it's a Repair 6 artifact. What does Repair 6 mean? Ability Minimums: Lore 7, Occult 6, Craft 6. Resources Required: 5 dots. Difficulty: 6 (+1 per ability dot underneath minimums). Successes Required: 36. Time per roll: 1 week.

Meanwhile, you've got the "fun" of dealing with the assorted militaristic societies that live on the mountain, not to mention the difficulties of getting up there to begin with; it's not exactly like you can just build a ladder up there! ;)
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Summon demons (quickner of ores), task bind them to mine out the lower mines for resoucres, to reach the mountain summon Agate, once there Social Fu your way into leadership position, use charms to keep on top of the heap, Make sure you have an entire circle, have someone running around and recruiting Outcaste/god-blooded/elemental-blooded, Make sure you have a Twilight with Harmonious Academic Methodology (and expansions), and Tiger Warrior Training (and expansions), Create fortifications around the Metagalapa's base, reshape the mountains exterior for terrace farms, Kill or force/convince the God at the Peak into service, kill the Hawkman god next time he rolls around, Wonder-working Syllabus on the -blooded, takes a season to awaken essence, costs 4BP or 8 XP (write up below)
This Charm permanently enhances the Exalt's Harmonious Academic Methodology, allowing him to enlighten mortals in large groups. Instead of the usual week, the training takes one season, each week of which the Solar must spend at least ten hours working with his students. At the end of this period the Lawgiver's students become Essence-users of an appropri- ate type (enlightened mortal, awakened god-blood, etc.). This grants those so enlightened an Essence pool appropriate to them; as a Training effect this enlightenment usually costs four bonus points or eight experience points, being the equivalent of the blight Enlightened Essence (The Compass of Celestial Directions, Vol. II—The Wyld, p. 148), though this is not a mutation or Shaping effect of any kind.
This Charm also allows the Exalt to train Essence-users to increase their permanent Essence, to a maximum of three. This process only takes the usual week. The Solar can't train mortals to become Essence-users at the same time he is training others to increase their Essence. Finally, the Exalt may also teach others Charms. Teaching Charms takes as much time as raising standard traits, and the Exalt may only teach others Charms in this way that require a minimum Ability 5 or lower and minimum Essence 3 or lower. This does not allow the Exalt to teach others Charms that they could not normally learn, such as teaching Solar Charms to enlightened mortals; nor can the Exalt teach others Charms he could not learn normally, such as those gained through Endow- ment or the caste power of the Eclipse; nor does it allow Solar Exalted to teach others Sidereal martial arts.

Be sure to instill loyalty to your circle into them and train them into high essence wielders (unfortunately this may have problems)
If your GM lets you get away with it you have gods/elementals loyal to you with out a job, with very much the mentality of mortals, who can get the craft ratings needed to repair the Directional Titan
 
Oh, I didn't say it was impossible, merely very difficult. But then, the Solar Exalted to the very difficult all the time. The thing is, to make it difficult enough that your players enjoy the challenge. Most notably, if they're using demons for mining down to the Directional Titan, it's entirely possible that word will reach Yozi loyalists once their binding has expired, and then they get the fun of dealing with Yozi cultists, and maybe even Infernal Exalts (who are we kidding, there'll definitely be Infernal Exalts involved).

Also, apparently spoiler tags don't work properly on this forum yet, if you've disabled javascript.
 
nick012000 said:
Oh, I didn't say it was impossible, merely very difficult. But then, the Solar Exalted to the very difficult all the time. The thing is, to make it difficult enough that your players enjoy the challenge. Most notably, if they're using demons for mining down to the Directional Titan, it's entirely possible that word will reach Yozi loyalists once their binding has expired, and then they get the fun of dealing with Yozi cultists, and maybe even Infernal Exalts (who are we kidding, there'll definitely be Infernal Exalts involved).

Also, apparently spoiler tags don't work properly on this forum yet.
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That's where half the fun comes in and spoiler tags are [ SPOILER ] and then [ / SPOILER ] take out the spaces
 
Cornuthaum said:
I am currently contemplating by what percentage I should inflate the health pools of Exalts - away from the standard seven - to make room for something like "being able to take a hit", "being able to use Resistance as a main-line defensive tree" and "not getting wrecked in one good hit".

Right now, I am looking at anything from tripling to quintupling health levels - so, roughly twenty to thirty five.

Does this make combat longer? Yes. Does this mean that both villains and heroes actually have a chance to escape when the fight goes bad, instead of getting splattered in one hit? Yes. Is it worth it? Maybe.

So, what'Dy ou suggest?
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Bit late, but 20 to 35 HLs is over reacting. By a lot, considering best Ox Bodies give you is 20. That goes doubly if your using 2.5, where it is actually hard to one shot splatter a guy. You need in the neighborhood of 20 post soak dice to reliably do it, and assuming people are wearing any armor at all, that's nigh impossible to do. Well, excluding magic flurries, which are the single thing most likely to kill players by accident these days. But using Resistance/Stamina as a mainline defense is viable as is. Stamina is better, since it tends to give more keyword coverage. More health levels doesn't really solve the escape issue, Athletics solves that one (and for Solars at least, gets you an all important flurry breaker).

My advice, using what havocfett gave you, tailored to Exalted:
havocfett said:
First: High Stamina gives a small amount of extra health levels. (A -0 at 3, a -1 at 5, a -2 at 7, etc.)
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This works (and has been oft suggested), but be advised the -2 at Sta 7 causes some weird effects with Attribute Excellencies. Might be best to just drop it, as only Alchemicals will even be able to get Sta 7 (fuck Elders).

havocfett said:
Second: One -0 Health Level for each dot of essence
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Again, works fine, but be advised Alchies already get this (at the -2 level) on account of their machine natures. Alchies are going to find it very easy to have ALL THE HEALTH LEVELS, but that is somewhat fitting with the splat.

havocfett said:
Third: Extra Health Levels are either a cheaper or b a lot more abundant. (The Extra Health Levels Augmentation. Which is 2*-0 HLs and 2*-2 HLs)
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I don't know Abberant, but the main issue with Exalted is Ox Bodies are boring but helpful, to outright necessary, depending on your role in combat and build. So most people don't invest at all in them unless they need to. The main way I see this dealt with is by giving out freebies, usually in one of two forms:

Stat based: Pick a stat (Stamina, Resistance or Essence are popular) and hand out Ox Bodies equal to that. I don't really like this one, since I like the idea Exalted aren't that much more then mortals without investment, and sooner or later they max out. Which leads to the other...

Hardy keyword: This is Sunder the Gold's brainchild from the old White Wolf forums. Basically, it adds a keyword to select charms, and every time you buy a charm with that keyword, you get an Ox Body, up to the limit for that splat. Linked is the version I use for my campaign, which also includes suggestions for a minor uptick in power for DB and Sidereal Ox Bodies, which were a bit lacking.

havocfett said:
Fourth: Very heavy armor gives you Ablative Health Levels. This can be Bypassed, but is pr. useful for most purposes.
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For Exalted, I would recommend allowing artifact armor to subtract from Overwhelming values. Say, reduces the minimum damage value of oncoming attacks by (Rating-1), to a minimum of one die. Have it stack with the starmetal MM bonus.

There you go. Now don't be surprised if certain build become completely immortal on you (no, not only talking canon Lunars).
 
Kylar said:
But using Resistance/Stamina as a mainline defense is viable as is. Stamina is better, since it tends to give more keyword coverage.
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Resistance - especially Solar resistance - does not work. A single magical flurry with a Grand artifact weapon is going to kill you more often than not (six attacks of three ping dice each with something like Iron Whirlwind). I've tried it before but it still comes down to "just always rely on a perfect", which is what I want to move away from.

And Ox-Bodies as they are are pathetic. They are in no way worth the cost, not when you could still go the "just don't get hit at all" route and literally live on happily after having spent all those charm purchases on stuff that is actually useful.

Which is why I think havoc's suggestion does hold true(r), given what we have seen of RavQuest so far (though I have made note that if my character crashes at 800 mph, they'd better have a perfect.)
 
Cornuthaum said:
Resistance - especially Solar resistance - does not work. A single magical flurry with a Grand artifact weapon is going to kill you more often than not (six attacks of three ping dice each with something like Iron Whirlwind). I've tried it before but it still comes down to "just always rely on a perfect", which is what I want to move away from.

And Ox-Bodies as they are are pathetic. They are in no way worth the cost, not when you could still go the "just don't get hit at all" route and literally live on happily after having spent all those charm purchases on stuff that is actually useful.

Which is why I think havoc's suggestion does hold true(r), given what we have seen of RavQuest so far (though I have made note that if my character crashes at 800 mph, they'd better have a perfect.)
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Are you talking about 2.0 or 2.5? They're rather different animals in that regard.
 
nick012000 said:
Are you talking about 2.0 or 2.5? They're rather different animals in that regard.
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My personal experience was the exact same in 2.0 and 2.5, except that in 2.5 it was a slightly slower process since ping tends to be capped at three die instead of [essence]. You still get sandblasted to hell if you go pure resistance, forever putting the Panther archetype (ie. no armor, no non-Resistance defensive charms) out of reach.
 
Kylar said:
For Exalted, I would recommend allowing artifact armor to subtract from Overwhelming values. Say, reduces the minimum damage value of oncoming attacks by (Rating-1), to a minimum of one die. Have it stack with the starmetal MM bonus.

There you go. Now don't be surprised if certain build become completely immortal on you (no, not only talking canon Lunars).
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The explicit reason for Ablative HLs in Aberrant 2.0 is to simulate modern body armor, yes. (So I could give a vest + plates some soak and some ablative HLs so it'd stop 2-3 rifle shots and then mostly stop damage from pistols). However, it works better than merely subtracting from ping damage because, as noted, it doesn't make it as easy to become completely immortal.

Aberrant 2.0 also doesn't have Hardness either, which is a thing. Ablative HLs are the "you are not going to get realistically hurt by mooks in any reasonable timeframe" guarantor.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
The explicit reason for Ablative HLs in Aberrant 2.0 is to simulate modern body armor, yes. (So I could give a vest + plates some soak and some ablative HLs so it'd stop 2-3 rifle shots and then mostly stop damage from pistols). However, it works better than merely subtracting from ping damage because, as noted, it doesn't make it as easy to become completely immortal.

Aberrant 2.0 also doesn't have Hardness either, which is a thing. Ablative HLs are the "you are not going to get realistically hurt by mooks in any reasonable timeframe" guarantor.
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I'm a little confused as to how Ablative Health Levels work. The barrier power says that the HL are applied before soak and are removed at a 1:1 damage dice to HL ratio, with automatic successes reduced at 1:1 first.

Under that interpretation the HL would be depleted in a single shot for most armors, which doesn't sound correct. Is armor (and/or the other forms of soak) supposed to apply the soak before taking damage to the HLs?


I'm also curious how this would interact with Exalted artifact armors. The exact number of HLs is just a balance thing, but by flavor the magical materials are indestructible (barring certain powers) when attuned with essence. How would you interpret Ablative HL in that case?


I'm using the PDF that was linked in the SB thread, so this might just be a leftover editing error from that. Is there a more updated version of the PDF?
 
Cytokinesis said:
I'm a little confused as to how Ablative Health Levels work. The barrier power says that the HL are applied before soak and are removed at a 1:1 damage dice to HL ratio, with automatic successes reduced at 1:1 first.

Under that interpretation the HL would be depleted in a single shot for most armors, which doesn't sound correct. Is armor (and/or the other forms of soak) supposed to apply the soak before taking damage to the HLs?

I'm using the PDF that was linked in the SB thread, so this might just be a leftover editing error from that. Is there a more updated version of the PDF?
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Ablative HLs from external defenses like Barriers/the Force Field Generator have 0 soak and thus you roll damage against them. If you manage to exceed them, you then subtract the number of Ablative HLs you got through first from the automatic successes, then from the attack's damage (at the 1-1 ratio). For armor, their Armor HLs (they're specifically called Armor HLs instead of Ablative to keep that from coming up) basically are treated like normal HLs, save that they don't protect against stuff that ignores the armor's soak (like aggravated damage, disease, poison, or extremely high-AP attacks).

The updated version is going to reduce soak across the board in Aberrant 2.0 and have soak act like Scion (1 point of soak reduces 1 HL of damage after rolling for damage), which will remove this weird edge-case interaction rule between ablative defenses and damage.

I'm also curious how this would interact with Exalted artifact armors. The exact number of HLs is just a balance thing, but by flavor the magical materials are indestructible (barring certain powers) when attuned with essence. How would you interpret Ablative HL in that case?
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Hardening the wearer's anima to create a field of essence-based energy that protects against attacks but can be slowly depleted or worn away?
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Is there anything wrong with being eyeless murder-hoboes who make everything worse and bring down empires?
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Not if you like playing Abyssals or Infernals, there isn't. Actually, isn't one of the recommended playstyles for Infernals summed up as "Grand Theft Yeddim:Lookshy"? (I have no idea why one of the other recommended playstyles was basically "High school AU with the Yozis")
 
Cornuthaum said:
Resistance - especially Solar resistance - does not work. A single magical flurry with a Grand artifact weapon is going to kill you more often than not (six attacks of three ping dice each with something like Iron Whirlwind). I've tried it before but it still comes down to "just always rely on a perfect", which is what I want to move away from.

And Ox-Bodies as they are are pathetic. They are in no way worth the cost, not when you could still go the "just don't get hit at all" route and literally live on happily after having spent all those charm purchases on stuff that is actually useful.

Which is why I think havoc's suggestion does hold true(r), given what we have seen of RavQuest so far (though I have made note that if my character crashes at 800 mph, they'd better have a perfect.)
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Yeah, flurries are the single biggest issue with the combat system as it stands. Well, that and grappling, but that's a whole nother debate. Although even a perfect won't help, seeing as you need to activate it in response to every attack. That said? Dumping a ton of health levels on PCs forces escalation that way, which is not ideal. I would recommend putting in a ton of flurry breakers akin to Day and Night Kata: cheap, easily accessible, and probably life saving. It might be worth removing flurries full stop, though that causes issues with mook clearing.

I will also note that the grand daiklave is on the extreme edge of the combat system, and kinda expensive. Your ST should not be routinely throwing that thing at you. That said, the explicit purpose of the grand weapon is counter soak monsters that put on the equivalent of superheavy plate.

All of the above said? I use Hardy, but even before I brought that in the only instance I had of player nearly dying in one hit was when he flurried a dragon that inflicted 7L unsoakable every time you punched it (the dragon was on fire. I thought it would be clear puching it may not be a good idea). I also recommend TDO's Essence Crisis, for a handy 'oh shit I'm gonna die' avoidance button. With all that in order, and assuming a good level of soak, you will have to work to kill people through pure damage.

MJ12 Commando said:
The explicit reason for Ablative HLs in Aberrant 2.0 is to simulate modern body armor, yes. (So I could give a vest + plates some soak and some ablative HLs so it'd stop 2-3 rifle shots and then mostly stop damage from pistols). However, it works better than merely subtracting from ping damage because, as noted, it doesn't make it as easy to become completely immortal.
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I was mostly kidding on the immortality, broken shit like Soul Fire Resurgence and power armor healing aside. Lunars are a bit of an edge case, since their healing is mote intensive. Combined with Gifts though, it can get to be a bit much. Alchemical (provided you take the sane reading that Body Reweaving Matrix only works once an action, not every tick) and Sidereal regen charms are both expensive, and capped at one HL a round, which is overcome able. Honestly, I'd go with reducing minimum damage, since a) it means not needing a new mechanic, and b) it takes a good deal of edge off the baseline flurry of doom, since every die of post soak removed per attack generally means 5+ dice of damage removed from a flurry. You could use something like GSNF to get around that, if you feel like feeding your entire mote pool into an attack (you need to activate GSNF separately for each attack, and you must activate it for all attacks).

(On a side note, does Aberrant use flurries?)
 
Matthew G said:
WUT
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Well, in the Storyteller section of Exalted books it recommends possible play-styles. In the Infernals book a lot of the styles aren't overtly evil, and the section starts by saying that you may need to insulate characters from the horror of Infernals' actions. Then it has a style entitled Grand Theft Yeddim, which (paraphrased) said "If your players want to play Killfuck Soulshitter let them. Ripping the arms of high-ranking members of the Realm in public duels is fun; what else matters?"
 
Has anybody had any luck using Legends of the Wulin as a mechanical base for Exalted? It seems like it should work, but since I don't exactly have anyone to play either with I have no good way of testing it.
 
The Sandman said:
Has anybody had any luck using Legends of the Wulin as a mechanical base for Exalted? It seems like it should work, but since I don't exactly have anyone to play either with I have no good way of testing it.
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That might be a good alternative I know many have stated that Legend of Qin it is one of the slicker RPG engines of late - RPPundit being one of them. Plus there is also Eoris Essence - and although I have the books I have not played a game yet so mechanically cannot actually say one way or another.
 
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