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General Exalted Thread

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Samsara is a late 2e creation than the authors took out of their hat when they realized than Fate kinda lacked gravitas when everybody minimally important can break it trivially.

It also is completely useless as a gameplay concept, because if a player takes a look into Samsara, the only reasonable response is saying "you see this" and then keep playing as normal, except now you are determining the results of the vision.

(Just ignore Samsara, is terrible. The players can never interact with it in any meaningful way, and so, it doesn't really exist at a gameplay level. If you want stronger themes of predestination, just make the effects of fate stronger).
 
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Huh. Story idea:

A mortal PC sorcerer is pissed off. Annoyed. Furious. Whatever. Basically, he's been working and learning and training all his life..... and he's just saw a dragonblooded sorcerer do it all better than him. Cause, ya know, charms and excellencies.

That means that he's got to beat that smug, damnable dragonblooded. Even if its the last thing he does.

So the problem with all this is that he's just a mortal sorcerer. He can't do anything. He's not good enough at things that he thinks he can reliably change and give himself ascension.

So the idea?

Is to change himself. Either through second circle demon or first circle shenanigans. Maybe he gets an endowment. Maybe he gets transformed into a first circle demonesque thingy, through a deal with Markarios or Mara. Maybe after completing a series of harrowing tasks, they reward him with transformation into a greater being.

But I think its a good idea for a sorcerer who wants to ascend into a behemoth or go beyond his limits. Could be a cool thing on how mortals try to and sometimes succeed in overcoming their limits. Or a story of hubris, where the sorcerer fails, and becomes basically chaos spawn.
 
EarthScorpion wrote some home brew fluff about that, of a way a Sorcerer can basically do what god-blooded or demon-blooded mortals do over Essence 4, basically fuse their Hun and Po souls together and become some kind of first circle demon equivalent, as a way of gaining power. That being said, your not going to be human anymore, and you still probably fall below an Exalted sorcerer in power. Its probably pretty difficult to because you need enough power to grow your souls and merge it.
 
Bel said:
EarthScorpion wrote some home brew fluff about that, of a way a Sorcerer can basically do what god-blooded or demon-blooded mortals do over Essence 4, basically fuse their Hun and Po souls together and become some kind of first circle demon equivalent, as a way of gaining power. That being said, your not going to be human anymore, and you still probably fall below an Exalted sorcerer in power. Its probably pretty difficult to because you need enough power to grow your souls and merge it.
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Huh. Yeah.

But goddamn, exalted are really, rwally, rare. Hard to find.

Know what's more common? Mortals. Mortals and gods and godblooded.

An sorcerer that broke human limits and has excellencies is a scary fucking foe to like, 90% of Creation.

Or better yet. He fails. He's left crippled, weak. All those resources? Gone. All that time? Wasted. And the demon's going to get him.

And in comes an offer from the yozis themselves....
 
Accelerator said:
No....

I kinda meant. Being transformed into a first circle demonesque Being?
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I mean, at which point you have the perks of being a spirit who knows sorcery. Sorcery is still sort of your grandest achievement and biggest ace up your sleeve.

Mortal sorcerers are things people in power want access to enough already, they don't have to sweeten the deal by also breaking themselves from the mortal coil on top of that.
 
Sydonai said:
IIRC EarthScorpion has shown interest in the idea of Sorcerers effectively changing themselves into Behemoths, in the sense of "one-off beings that can't be categorized otherwise".
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Yeah, however I was under the impression that the nature of their Behemoth-hood was "I'm a sorcerer now, because mortals can't use sorcery and still be mortals" and it might come with some supernatural merits as the physical expression - letting the character buy Unusual Hide to represent them changing their skin into supple gold because they are trying to force themselves into Anathema-hood, for example.
 
Cosar said:
Really? Can you quote where that's in the errata?
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Rather than that, it's more that metaphysically, if the Sidereal Charmset is working off Fate, then not only is it a little strange that their perfects work, but also things like Wise Choice and Force Decision should just kind of fall apart if there's enough Essence-users in the general area, by lore. There's no mechanical problem per se, but it doesn't line up with the fluff.
 
linkhyrule5 said:
Rather than that, it's more that metaphysically, if the Sidereal Charmset is working off Fate, then not only is it a little strange that their perfects work, but also things like Wise Choice and Force Decision should just kind of fall apart if there's enough Essence-users in the general area, by lore. There's no mechanical problem per se, but it doesn't line up with the fluff.
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The Sidereal Charmset doesn't necessarily work off fate. Their charmset is, in universe, designed such that it works with fate, but their charmset has never, to my knowledge, actually had a general restriction on it working only in Creation (some charms excepted of course as usual). Samsara is an explanation for how the charms work, but it is not necessarily the only possible explanation, nor is it necessarily a good one, and most critically it's an explanation given long after the fact. Implying that it's really necessary for Sidereals is just odd.
 
I'm... upset.

I get why people think the 2e model of Fate is anemic and/or compromised, but like many things, writers and readers do not understand nuance of scale. It occurs to me also that there is this shared impression that the Loom has to be respected, fixed, that No, you cannot use your vast powers on Creation because think of the pattern spiders! Or the Sidereals, take your pick.

The fact is that heroism itself is an influence on Fate, able to buck plans and make what amounts to an extra hour or two's work in Heaven to course-correct and plan around it. The Bureau of Destiny is not 20 Sidereals, but untold thousands of gods if not upwards of tens of thousands/millions. Whatever you feel like saying is fine in your Yu-Shan.

Fate is worn thin yes, by the grand blasphemous magic of the Infernals (by design), because those charms are meant to get sidereal kill teams to show up and act as your recurring antagonists. Fate is worn thin by the Operation Wyldhands, because those were representative of how out of touch the Solars were. Fate is worn thin at the borders of Creation, because the Wyld nibbles away at it in ebb and flow. In modern, practical 2nd age Creation, Fate is trucking along just fine.

Fate-keyworded Charms could have been mechanized better, sure, but most of a Sidereal's charm-kit, at the fluff level, is about knowing and perceiving fate at a local level, not a holistic 'Loom' level. Impeeding the Flow and Serenity in Blood both speak less about 'The Loom' and more about 'I can see the lines of probability and destiny (read cause/effect) that lead to this sword going Here. So I use Magic to make it Not Do That.'

Fate is too huge for any single player-group to influence.
 
linkhyrule5 said:
Rather than that, it's more that metaphysically, if the Sidereal Charmset is working off Fate, then not only is it a little strange that their perfects work, but also things like Wise Choice and Force Decision should just kind of fall apart if there's enough Essence-users in the general area, by lore. There's no mechanical problem per se, but it doesn't line up with the fluff.
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That sounds like an unnecessarily convoluted patch to "fix" what is an entirely self-created "problem".
 
linkhyrule5 said:
Maybe? But then my question is, where do long-range predictive Charms like Wise Choice get their information, and how can it be useful on large scales?
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From being a Sidereal Charm. Really, though, this is the fault of like, detailing how the Loom works and functions and making it this idiotic computer thing that fails to work on IMPORTANT PEOPLE.
 
I mean, I don't actually have a problem with Exaltations being capable of high-spec conceptual divination magic, but that's absolutely the sort of thing I'd expect to have knock-on effects...
 
linkhyrule5 said:
I mean, I don't actually have a problem with Exaltations being capable of high-spec conceptual divination magic, but that's absolutely the sort of thing I'd expect to have knock-on effects...
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Don't overthink it. Sidereals can see the future and do weird planning, and it's not reliant on the mechanics of Fate or Samsara or anything but them being Sidereals. Leave it at that, don't go pulling threads.
 
So I was thinking, and EarthScorpian's work on firedust in the SouthWest inspired me.

What would South Eastern firedust be like? Napalm, sticky and longer burning? Firedust crystals trapped inside wood, so that it detonates when burnt, but can be made into potent artifacts? Would Fire and Wood synergize mutate plants into an ever-growing, constantly spreading mass to be fought with earth and salt? I want your opinions.
 
Obviously wood from the South West is colored a bright red and explodes when just led unnessasarily...though how all those sorcerers and Bandit lords got that many barrels made of the stuff to leave around their fortress is a mystery.
 
Kaiya said:
Don't overthink it. Sidereals can see the future and do weird planning, and it's not reliant on the mechanics of Fate or Samsara or anything but them being Sidereals. Leave it at that, don't go pulling threads.
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Why?

I mean, I realize 3E is all about that sort of thing, but the reason I like Exalted is that the metaphysics hangs together. Of course I'm going to go pulling threads, it's how I got into it in the first place.
 
Seconding linkhyrule, here. Some of Exalted's best writing has been when it pulls those threads itself.

Some of its worst, too, but I'm prepared to lay that at the feet of bad writers, not bad concepts.
 
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