AmineHsu
A worm, not a man, scorned and despised.
- Location
- NoVA
General Exalted Thread
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
I thought she was engaged to the Ebon dragon.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
Any expectations for Dragon-blooded to have inconvenient pregnancies is wholly on the head of the players or GM not understanding population growth, because the long lives of Dragon-blooded make it unnecessary:
Going further, and actually accounting for things like ~50% Exaltation rate, assuming a roughly 50% rate of "doesn't meaningfully contribute to this generation", and assuming a 50-year generation for easier math, a pair of Dragon-blooded couples whose family persisted until the canon start time (around RY 750, or 15 generations) with an average of 1 kid per decade from the age of 20 to 150 (13 kids) would have about 4393 currently-living Terrestrial Exalt descendants.
They would also still have lots of free time, to the tune of about 9 years between kids.
Societal pressure for the standard Dragon-blooded couple to have more than 4 or 5 kids is unnecessary, and for 5 kids you can start at a century old, finish by the time you're 150, and still have 9 years between kids
Thatsthejoke.jpg
(I.e. take general ideas you like from the metaplot, throw out most of it.)
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
I'm pretty sure that bit was from before the 2e metapilot.
It predates even Exalted.
The two gods the Kuei-Jin worship in the oWoD are the Ebon Dragon and the Scarlet Queen. The Kuei-Jin explicitly were the Dragonblooded, who were cursed to live in unlife and rejected by the sun when they committed a great crime and forgot their place. That's where the "Empress is engaged to Ebby" thing comes from.
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
I would personally love a separate thread in order to keep track of updates, and in which to pester you with questions.
I really love the Dishonored everything here, but do I also see a hint of Lies of Locke Lamora?
- Location
- United States
You aren't the first to say so but it's entirely coincidental. I've never read that series.
It goes without saying the 2000s were a different time for RPGs, and though I would be among the first to tell anyone designing a game now that deliberately varying up the costs for character-advancement in a team-centric game is pure poison, for the time this was considered extremely permissive. Because this was not outright denying players access to Mutations, however redundant or rules-incompatible they were seen to be with access to superior benefits from Charms, as this was before Mutations had been assigned a bp or XP costs. You simply Had them if your concept said you did, independently of other stats, because by and large Mutations were things which only Mortals cared about, like a more wyld-specific version of Merits and Flaws (with all the typical baggage people assign to them).
This tack showed up again in the creation of Alchemical Hybrids from other Exalt-types in the original Alchemicals 1e book, yet another example of "we're not telling you Not to mix these incompatible rulesets, we're just going to make it clearly suboptimal." Hybrids had to up their base XP cost to raise Essence by a factor of 2 (so Rating x8 would be Rating x10), buying Charms of their former type had an additional surcharge of +3xp on top of any base cost, and could only purchase new Slots with a cost of (Unfavored Charm) +3xp to even gain access to Alchemical Charms at all. This concept was obviously dropped due to the combining-Charms aspect in the 2e book, while mutations were Buffed to become a more universal system of static benefits even an Exalt would be hard-pressed to find within their own Charmset, but the underlying attitudes remained more or less the same.
But the difference between how the rules have approached the two since that time, with Mutations becoming more freewheeling in regards to "just emulate whatever media you want, even at the cost of thematic resonance" verses Hybrids being given the Hard No because of Charm-combination hell, have sort of irrevocably shaped perceptions surrounding the game and "who qualifies for Exaltation" in detrimental ways even though many Mutations are now vastly stronger and cheaper than even the closest Charm-equivalents.
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- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They're... not really? (Thanks @Omicron, you did what was necessary)
Mutations have a long history consisting of "literally all of 2e" of either being useless or overpowered, this isn't due to any deliberate decision, it's because they mechanically suck, no one sat down and said, "Hey wouldn't it be cool of our mutations literally followed only this single arbitrary system for balance which we pretend to follow ourselves while not actually balancing them?"
To some degree I get your point, that we should consider what mutations actually mean for the game, but on the other hand, I really don't think the 1e approach had a lot of thematic resonance either.
Mutations have a long history consisting of "literally all of 2e" of either being useless or overpowered, this isn't due to any deliberate decision, it's because they mechanically suck, no one sat down and said, "Hey wouldn't it be cool of our mutations literally followed only this single arbitrary system for balance which we pretend to follow ourselves while not actually balancing them?"
To some degree I get your point, that we should consider what mutations actually mean for the game, but on the other hand, I really don't think the 1e approach had a lot of thematic resonance either.
I'm not saying that all mutations are universally incredible, so much as they introduced another element of mechanics which had to be factored into character-building, and how people perceived those characters within the setting. When you take them as they are (essentially as Permanent Charms with a variable xp cost) the amount of cost-for-cost investment needed regularly outstrips anything which requires navigating a Charm tree and/or paying an activation cost in motes, and is Still stackable with those same Charm effects if you are willing to double-down on such a thing.
And that's why the initial 1e skittishness and wanting to keep a "soft" lid on such things was there, since its pretty difficult to argue that a Dragonblooded martial artist should pay the full cost of a Charm purchase and 1m per attack whenever she wants to deal Lethal damage, when the option of always-active Lethal damage is sitting right over there for a measly 2xp in Claws and needing to wear gloves all the time. As a result of freeing things up though, you end up on a strange place where Clawed DBs are always the naturally better unarmed martial artists, never having to waste xp and motes on those "lesser options" within her own mechanics.
Even the most rank-basic mutation like Stone Body is giving the benefit of two Permanent Charms worth of Natural soak and a considerable die-bonus (albeit to Survival, which is arguably a fine reason to avoid putting any dots in there at all), for only the cost of 6bp/12xp. The bonus alone is something in the realm of 9-13xp by itself in terms of Ability dots, and essentially comes as a ribbon tied around the effect you came for, which was a lot more soak. When your soak tree doesn't even give you a decent amount of soak until three Charms in, you hit a wall that says a significant subset of your type of Exalt are going to be burly tortoise-men or similar.
Essentially, combinationial hell isn't just the problem of Charms, but at least in the case of Charms it doesn't reflect on demographics within the greater Exalt type abusing the option.
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What do we know about Necromancy in 3e?
I've tried looking for some comments from the devs on the matter, but their either didn't talk much about it, or don't know the right places to look.
All i could find was some vague (and probably outdated) quotes from John Morke about necromancy having a different shaping technique and necromancers using the same spells differently.
I've tried looking for some comments from the devs on the matter, but their either didn't talk much about it, or don't know the right places to look.
All i could find was some vague (and probably outdated) quotes from John Morke about necromancy having a different shaping technique and necromancers using the same spells differently.
Vance and Minton (the two new devs) have a Q&A thread up in the official forums. There's been some off and on questions on the subject for a while, and quite a few of them in the last week or so. The short version is that there's not much in the way of specifics nailed down at this point because Abyssals are still a ways out, but the intent is that it uses the broad framework of Ex3's sorcery yet is aiming for a distinct play experience. Keyword searching the thread brings up about 4 pages worth of posts if you want to read for yourself.
Edit: That search parameter actually missed my favorite post of Vance's on the topic:
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It sounds a lot like D&D's treatment of psionics, for similar reasons
- Location
- Land of the Midday Sun
Old D&D, when it was down a roll at character creation? Modern D&D just treat psionics as another kind of magic.
Frakir's brother
Goodbye.
- Location
- The Sea of Trees
Inherited your father's magical bells.
Do I detect an Abhorsen reference here?
Do I detect an Abhorsen reference here?
Yes. 2E D&D's psionics led to some very mixed messages psionics in 3/3.5E where the costs and options were all over the place in what looks like an attempt to make it unique, and balanced. Afterwards they just gave up and made it magic with different glows.
The mutation thing sounds like the 2E->3E D&D psionic transition where it was this weird special snowflake thing, that attempted to fit in, but doesn't.
Looks like
- Location
- Land of the Midday Sun
3E Psionics was just awful, particularly the whole psionic attack/defense mess. To put in Exalted terms, imagine that PCs had to spend motes to activate offensive/defensive Charms, while NPC don't and can spam their charms without care. To make thing worse, beings that don't use Essence are straight up immune to your powers. I'm glad 3.5 made psionics "another magic but with mana".
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
I think you had to have a high mental stats to even roll to check if you have psionics.
Of course certain monsters just got psionics for free.
- Location
- Land of the Midday Sun
Yeah, it was similar in some respect to percentile strenght.
And yes, some monsters got psionics for free. But monsters working differently from PC is expected, blatantly going "either roll well at character creation, otherwise you don't get to play" isn't good game design.
Then of course, basically nobody I've met played with psionic PCs back in the day, too much effort for little gain. Going with psionic=magic later on was a great thing.
Basically. Though the another magic thing didn't really get done properly until 4E and beyond.
- Location
- Land of the Midday Sun
5E still dosn't have a properly published psionic class. It has the mystic, but tha'ts in beta for now.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
I did a couple things.
Greensprig Spear (Artifact •)
Attunement: 2m
The Greensprig Spear artifiact is not actually a spear but a supple tree branch covered in thorns and vibrant, green leaves (or colorful flowers) that can be easily wrapped around an arm, leg, or head. The thorns do not pierce the skin of the user or cause her any discomfort. Simply attuning this artifact does nothing; its use is revealed when the owner spends 3m as a Miscellaneous (Speed 3/DV -1) action, which causes a thorny length of solid greenwood to sprout from the bough into the characters hands. This spear uses the statistics of a normal spear, with the addition of the Thrown (T) tag and is automatically counted as readied. Spears generated this way wither if they're out of the Greensprig Spear's owners hand for one action or at the end of the scene, whichever is first.
Greensprig Spear: Speed 5, Accuracy +1, Damage +3L/6L, Defense +1, Rate 2, Tags 2, L, R, Th, T
(Balance reference point: Glorious Solar Saber allows you to make a dire lance for 3m, 1wp. This is just a (mostly) normal spear and it requires a 2m attunement instead of 1wp. This is also intended to be a disposable weapon that you might generate a few times in a scene, should it be appropriate. Basically just allows you to walk around not obviously armed.)
Firelance (Resources •••• or •••••)
The firelance is a currently-experimental modification of a firewand, primarily intended to improve the firing speed and reloading speed of the weapon and currently only really available from the inventor. The core of the weapon is a set of three steel tubes (each slightly longer and thinner than standard firewands), a lever, and a cunning device that loads specially-prepared paper packets (currently a Resources ••• expenditure for a set of 50 packets; the preparation prevents premature ignition from the heat of firing the weapon) for ignition. Two of the tubes are built to receive smaller tubes filled with the packets, which are pushed by a spring into the receiving chamber. This chamber is then rotated by pushing the lever, which lines the loaded packet up with the barrel of the firelance and the ignition system. From there, it functions as a normal firewand. Like a firewand, affixing a bayonet to the end of the firelance allows it to be used as a crude spear, with the statistics of a short spear.
Reloading a firelance is a Speed 5, DV -2 action.
Most firelances cost Resources ••••. However, some of these weapons incorporate blue jade dusting in the steel of the barrels, to help limit the heat bloom from firing, and red jade in the ignition system. These models cost Resources •••••, have a range of 14, and are less likely to malfunction than a standard firewand.
Firelance: Speed 5, Accuracy +1, Damage 12L, Rate 2, Range 12, Ammo 10, Tags: 2, F
(The firelance is of no relation to the fire lance artifact in WotLA, but the name fit too well for me to not use it.)
(Once the firelance design begins proliferating, because it is a functional design concept based on real-life firearm advances, the price should drop to Resources 3/4 because they're available from places other than the inventor.)
(Credit to my dad for having a cleverer idea for the loading mechanism than I did and helping me solidify it into a more interesting concept that's conceptually sound.)
Greensprig Spear (Artifact •)
Attunement: 2m
The Greensprig Spear artifiact is not actually a spear but a supple tree branch covered in thorns and vibrant, green leaves (or colorful flowers) that can be easily wrapped around an arm, leg, or head. The thorns do not pierce the skin of the user or cause her any discomfort. Simply attuning this artifact does nothing; its use is revealed when the owner spends 3m as a Miscellaneous (Speed 3/DV -1) action, which causes a thorny length of solid greenwood to sprout from the bough into the characters hands. This spear uses the statistics of a normal spear, with the addition of the Thrown (T) tag and is automatically counted as readied. Spears generated this way wither if they're out of the Greensprig Spear's owners hand for one action or at the end of the scene, whichever is first.
Greensprig Spear: Speed 5, Accuracy +1, Damage +3L/6L, Defense +1, Rate 2, Tags 2, L, R, Th, T
(Balance reference point: Glorious Solar Saber allows you to make a dire lance for 3m, 1wp. This is just a (mostly) normal spear and it requires a 2m attunement instead of 1wp. This is also intended to be a disposable weapon that you might generate a few times in a scene, should it be appropriate. Basically just allows you to walk around not obviously armed.)
Firelance (Resources •••• or •••••)
The firelance is a currently-experimental modification of a firewand, primarily intended to improve the firing speed and reloading speed of the weapon and currently only really available from the inventor. The core of the weapon is a set of three steel tubes (each slightly longer and thinner than standard firewands), a lever, and a cunning device that loads specially-prepared paper packets (currently a Resources ••• expenditure for a set of 50 packets; the preparation prevents premature ignition from the heat of firing the weapon) for ignition. Two of the tubes are built to receive smaller tubes filled with the packets, which are pushed by a spring into the receiving chamber. This chamber is then rotated by pushing the lever, which lines the loaded packet up with the barrel of the firelance and the ignition system. From there, it functions as a normal firewand. Like a firewand, affixing a bayonet to the end of the firelance allows it to be used as a crude spear, with the statistics of a short spear.
Reloading a firelance is a Speed 5, DV -2 action.
Most firelances cost Resources ••••. However, some of these weapons incorporate blue jade dusting in the steel of the barrels, to help limit the heat bloom from firing, and red jade in the ignition system. These models cost Resources •••••, have a range of 14, and are less likely to malfunction than a standard firewand.
Firelance: Speed 5, Accuracy +1, Damage 12L, Rate 2, Range 12, Ammo 10, Tags: 2, F
(The firelance is of no relation to the fire lance artifact in WotLA, but the name fit too well for me to not use it.)
(Once the firelance design begins proliferating, because it is a functional design concept based on real-life firearm advances, the price should drop to Resources 3/4 because they're available from places other than the inventor.)
(Credit to my dad for having a cleverer idea for the loading mechanism than I did and helping me solidify it into a more interesting concept that's conceptually sound.)
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
The mechanism honestly kinda reminds me of the Gonne? It's not the same, but that's what I think of when I hear about tubes being pushed in.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
The results I'm getting when I look up "Gonne" are medieval hand-cannons; this is more like the Spencer repeating rifle except the dual tube magazines are mounted underneath the barrel.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I was talking about the Discworld Gonne.
Gonne - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki
It's not the same, but that's what I thought of.
There should be some even more special version of the Firelance as an artifact/something that speaks to you and encourages you to murder people.