I'm not actually sure what the difference would be. Can you explain in more detail what you mean by a timid player?
A timid player is one who doesn't take risks, is overcautious and refuses to advance without spending time mitigating potential points of failure. This is generally not a good thing to be in a game like Exalted that prides itself on letting players do bold, bombastic things.

Basically, do you want to spend most of your session preventing things from going wrong, or having fun figuring out how to win despite things going wrong?

A timid character, by contrast, is one who is roleplayed (and possibly rollplayed) in a manner that emphasizes their personality as a storytelling tool. The disconnect is that a timid character should not be so timid as to disrupt the game or make it un fun for everyone.

Basically, any characterization can be empowering, or it can be a burden. The ALL GO NO QUIT FISTS FIRST archetype is as exhausting as the coward- the other players have to manage them.

That's not fun.
 
Today on Sunlit Sands, @Aleph contends with the terror that is ridiculous success.
This was more amusing than usual, due to literally ALL THE DICE. And I noticed you claimed the Infernal token.
How did Piper keep a two-way convo going for that long? Standard stunt mote regen?

And the exorcist lady has a UMI stealth effect going on, huh.
And what might be disturbing levels of interest in the PC.
Looking forward to seeing that work out.
 
Yes, but then he gets a bullshit super-form that's barely one step down from flat invincibility despite the fact that it thematically makes no sense given how his might is tied to his Virtues (and by casting them off he should be lessened into an almost Ligier-esque "Blue Sun" who's low-Incarna level but still pretty damn tough.

In the pre errata charm set he could suppress one of his virtues to curse an area, stuff like that didn't come up only in errata.
 
In the pre errata charm set he could suppress one of his virtues to curse an area, stuff like that didn't come up only in errata.
Well yes, but the Incarna suppressing his Valour to curse Nineveh with bloodlust and hate is cool; the sun going into MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE which is basically invincible without any particular interaction with his virtues is not cool. It drags out the already horrid second edition paradigm of combat and denies players of their achievements (for the same reason that Birth of Sanity's Sorrow does, because whaling at a dude until you've finally gotten him down to almost dead through clever manipulation of his virtues only for him to go "ey b0ss" and engage maximum overdrive, thus nullifying all you've done to him yet is fucking boring).
 
Well yes, but the Incarna suppressing his Valour to curse Nineveh with bloodlust and hate is cool; the sun going into MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE which is basically invincible without any particular interaction with his virtues is not cool. It drags out the already horrid second edition paradigm of combat and denies players of their achievements (for the same reason that Birth of Sanity's Sorrow does, because whaling at a dude until you've finally gotten him down to almost dead through clever manipulation of his virtues only for him to go "ey b0ss" and engage maximum overdrive, thus nullifying all you've done to him yet is fucking boring).
What about the Infernal shintai charms tho? I'm pretty conflicted on them because they pretty cool IMO.
 
What about the Infernal shintai charms tho? I'm pretty conflicted on them because they pretty cool IMO.
Infernal Shintai charms are for the most part well developed with clear design intents; Devil-Tyrant Shintai and Demon-Emperor Shintai are combat forms that give you battlefield supremacy, Black-Mirror Shintai is the ultimate disguise charm and The Greater Shintai of The Endless Desert lets you bury a city or army in magical sand, but Exalted opposition can resist its effects fairly trivially.

Essentially, they're powerful effects that weren't just shoved onto an already powerful character who is literally invunerable unless he has to supress a virtue.
 
Well yes, but the Incarna suppressing his Valour to curse Nineveh with bloodlust and hate is cool; the sun going into MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE which is basically invincible without any particular interaction with his virtues is not cool. It drags out the already horrid second edition paradigm of combat and denies players of their achievements (for the same reason that Birth of Sanity's Sorrow does, because whaling at a dude until you've finally gotten him down to almost dead through clever manipulation of his virtues only for him to go "ey b0ss" and engage maximum overdrive, thus nullifying all you've done to him yet is fucking boring).

He can't really activate it when he is about to die, and it isn't practical for him to do that. It takes 100 motes to active that form, and is (probably) a simple action. If he is in a fight without temperance active, he is most likely going to use it at the start.

The unconquered sun can actually die with his superform active.

"Birth Of Sanity's Sorrow" is a different case. I It only takes 10 motes (1 permanant wp), and takes 0 ticks. It can only activate when they are about to die.
It is much much worse for one reason:
The cost of any Charm she knows becomes 1m; she may also substitute 1m for 1wp when invoking Charms or Combos.
If you have an action long defense, you become fucking invincible.
 
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He can't really activate it when he is about to die, and it isn't practical for him to do that. It takes 100 motes to active that form, and is (probably) a simple action. If he is in a fight without temperance active, he is most likely going to use it at the start.

The unconquered sun can actually die with his superform active.
28 of the Unconquered Sun's arms must be destroyed in order to end his transformation. It is impossible to defeat him otherwise.
Uhuh.

The Unconquered Sun has a mote pool of 250, which becomes 300 the moment he activates Magnanimous Unbound Sun, if he somehow manages to expend more than 150 motes before in a single fight before activating it, he is practically asking for you to kill him. Of course the fact that it doesn't have a listed type of action is only another nail in the coffin for a stupid power as far as I'm concerned.
 
Uhuh.

The Unconquered Sun has a mote pool of 250, which becomes 300 the moment he activates Magnanimous Unbound Sun, if he somehow manages to expend more than 150 motes before in a single fight before activating it, he is practically asking for you to kill him. Of course the fact that it doesn't have a listed type of action is only another nail in the coffin for a stupid power as far as I'm concerned.
The 28 arms thing doesn't make him invincible. You can destroy them.

The max size of his mote pool increases, the current contents don't. He has (at most) 150 motes on transforming.


IIRC activated charms default to simple, speed 5, and DV -1. There are a bunch of creatures that have unique charms, so I think there were rules listed for them.
 
The main flaw with the Glories Sun mechanically is that he's too binary. With Temperance, he's entirely invincible; without it he's not an E10 fighter. It means there's no temptation for him to drop his Temperance and rely on lesser defences because he really doesn't have any lesser defences in his weight class.

All he needed was a non-permanent expensive defence tied to another Virtue - probably Valour or Conviction, so he could wind up in situations where he had to either back down from a fight or change his mind, or act intemperately, and could decide "FUCK TEMPERANCE I'MMA GONNA GET MY SMITE ON" without it essentially being the ST throwing the fight.

The main flaw, fluff-wise, by contrast is that he was written by hatewheel. "Flaw" is sort of fundamental to that, because hatewheel wanted Sun Jesus rather than Aztec Lucifer and didn't mind how much he had to warp to do that.
 
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The main flaw with the Glories Sun mechanically is that he's too binary. With Temperance, he's entirely invincible; without it he's not an E10 fighter. It means there's no temptation for him to drop his Temperance and rely on lesser defences because he really doesn't have any lesser defences in his weight class.

All he needed was a non-permanent expensive defence tied to another Virtue - probably Valour or Conviction, so he could wind up in situations where he had to either back down from a fight or change his mind, or act intemperately, and could decide "FUCK TEMPERANCE I'MMA GONNA GET MY SMITE ON" without it essentially being the ST throwing the fight.

The main flaw, fluff-wise, by contrast is that he was written by hatewheel. "Flaw" is sort of fundamental to that, because hatewheel wanted Sun Jesus rather than Aztec Lucifer and didn't mind how much he had to warp to do that.

He does know several martial arts, I think some of them gave defenses.

In the errata his shield gives him an activated perfect defense, even when temperance is off. (1 attack is 6 motes, 1 tick is 8 motes, 1 action is 8 motes + 1 wp).
 
Today on Sunlit Sands, @Aleph contends with the terror that is ridiculous success.

Session Log

So we continue where we left off last session, though we're finally getting back into the more fluid 'dramatic action' timescale instead of the more concrete 'dialogue' one. You'll note that we've never used Join Debate rules just yet, mostly because all existing scenes are usually 1v1 and we already have a convention of taking turns. As Inks gets more Social Charms, we may need to start using Join Debate more.

Now, Pipera is still 'settling in' as a character, but she's already starting to be useful and develop a personality. I haven't taken the time in-character to really dig into her backstory though, not yet.

One thing about this game and Exalted in general is the evaluating and use of assets- Inks has backing 4 with the Despot, she has authority to draw on his own assets within reason, or invoke his favor... but she really doesn't want to right now.

But that still gave me the idea to note the rest of the court as a resource and exploited it just so. My stunt to use Inks's obvious sensual charms worked out better than expected, with a pool of 10 +10 from 1st excellency, and +2 from stunt, I earned 13 successes...

And Aleph wonders why I always go for Maximum Excellency. Answer: No Wyld Hunt. More seriously, the storyteller's job is to make the player feel comfortable and confident enough to engage the game. A timid player is a boring player. Note that's not the same as a timid character.

Culturally, Gem and by extension Creation is... insular is the wrong word, but nationalism and city-state mentality is apparent. Neigbhors are 'Others', intemperate and strange. Alliances between them are tenuous and fraught with cultural clashes and so on. It's not racism, but more nationalism or jingoism. Salib as a diplomat is inherently biased against the people he's intended to diplomance with.

But regadless, he gives Inks a wealth of information!

Building on that theme (and checking in on some old NPCs), we note that Ryabu as a 'Ranger of Gem' would likely have insights, but also be even more fervently patriotic, so invoking him would have been ill-advised. From here, mulling upon her goal of buying the medicine sparked an inspiration.

One thing about Exalted as a game, is that it's easy for players to get complacent, and easy for storytellers. And sometimes it's easy to do the opposite. Solving all your problems with one tool makes the game feel samey, but a storyteller who arranges all problems to be solved with a single tool is equally samey. And extending, a storyteller who pushes players Constantly out of their specialites can almost miss the point of Exalted-

You are Greater Than, and should be allowed to show that off. If Inks never gets to use her Craft or Medicine, the dots on her sheet are only relevant as character garnish, and thus we never see how good she is in comparison to the rest of the world.

Mulling, the Hepatizon forges are something I've been wanting to expand for a while- they are currently Scope 3, meaning they supply Magnitude 3* worth of hepatizon products a season. I can't expand them under the current plot conditions, but it's on the to-do list. I did note the valuable consideration that the Despot doesn't want Inks exporting materials without his say-so.

But regardless, I and by extension Inks got an idea!

Teamworking with Pipera, we determine that offering a commission to one of the medicine-supplying Mountain Lords, the Coxati people- is a good idea. I should note that the word 'Coxati' sounds very mesoamerican/aztec, considering the 'mountain lords' and our proxmity to An-Teng... Well, I feel cultural blending is in my future. Also I would not deny Aleph the opportunity to pull in Familiar content from her previous game experience.

Next, after several sessions languishing in plot-hook purgatory, Inks finally fixes those dang tablets, and discovers they're... signposts? Pipera jumped back inb efore I could make a further conclusion, but my thought is that there might be a sunken first age city, or ruins of such somewhere. 11 successes to repair, 7 to translate- this was the worst roll of the session.

After more research, we're given overviews of three likely clients who can supply the medicine. Aleph again is very good at writing good 'choices' at a narrative level; the three potentials all have costs and benefits to invoking them, though I should say that as a Player, I see no reason not to eventually call on them all.

However, after some deliberation, Inks and Pipera agree to offer the commission to Saudari Etayadi Fire-in-Earth. Emphasis mandatory.

After a brief pause to hash out some mechanics, we have Pipera roll for the negotiation... 16 successes on 19d.

I'd like a moment of silence for Aleph's peace of mind.

The results of this ridiculously well-executed propsoal means that Inks has a surplus of 'Essence-radiation treatment supplies' on hand just in case, or availible to sell locally if she needs. Ajjim meanwhile rolled for his own healing, and as log states, if Inks had not put him in the bath, Ajjim would've rolled 5d; -4d at Diff 3...

15, 13 and 12 successes, btw, for Inks's three rolls in short succession.

More plothooks sprinkle in about the Desert Mother, who is increasingly likely a 'lost' or 'dead' god. Having secured one of her proper titles though, Inks could in theory start a cult to her and possibly bring her back.

And oh dear, the exorcist. Hahaha. The log speaks for itself.

Tying off this session is an indulgent craft stunt, but it also underlines a key point about Solar Charm design that I personally support. Inks has a houseruled Craftsmen Needs No Tools that lets her craft bare handed, yes, but always works better With tools. So she went from [barehanded] to [rudimentary] to [basic] with her initial rolls, and then actually used her [masterwork] tools to make the mask and jewelry for her client. This is working as intended.

And I got 14 successes. As Aleph points out, Inks may've overpaid. Hopefully not enough to offend.

Lastly, we move on with some legwork, investigation! After some mechanical discussion, we get to the stunting and the rolling and- again, as is the trend for this session, Inks wins.

And so we end on a suitably dramatic note, and I am looking forward to next session!
So, shifting the topic not-so-subtly back to Inksgame...

I had fun this session! We got payoff on a bunch of things I've been setting up (you do not know how long I was sitting on those Exorcist notes and giggling over the scribbles in the margins), started expanding Inks' influence outside Gem (friggin' bullshit 12-success rolls to summarise a polity I'd expected her to only have distant interactions with for another five to six sessions or so goddammit) and cured Ajjim, yay! (I would totally have had him die horribly from his organs melting if he'd failed or botched that roll and maybe one more high-Diff stabilisation roll from Inks, and then given her a traumatised five-year old tigergirl to look after).

We also, uh, tracked down and cornered a stealth-focused Exorcist who'd maxed out her own pool on a fucking 6% probability pair of rolls where Inks did bullshit well and the Exorcist did amazingly badly.

... I really was not expecting that. Inks was meant to find a creepy trail of people who didn't want to acknowledge what they'd seen and had suppressed the memories and needed Inks to almost rip it out of them by force because of how much WP they had to spend to break the 'don't think about it' compulsion; leaving her with nothing but chills up her spine and some disturbing information about her target's capabilities that she could put to use in tracking them down with a custom-made plan designed to compensate for their stealth magic. BUT I GUESS NOPE WE'RE HAVING THIS CONFRONTATION NOW, WHOOP DE DOO.

(Though it might perhaps make more sense now as to why the Exorcist freaked the fuck out when Inks found her the first time. It's a fairly reasonable reaction when your stalkee-waifu of several months shows up literally at your office door and goes "hi, I'm looking for a mysterious culprit who's committed several murders PS it's you".)

(... there were probably better reactions she could have taken than attempting "me no speak the firetongues, sorry" on a Perception 5 genius, admittedly, but in her defence she was taken by surprise and subjected to full blast Inks-prettiness at point blank range. A certain degree of bamboozlement can be forgiven.)
 
I had a weirdly specific and unrelated thought when I was on the train, listening to Rhapsody of Fire.
Aren't Solar Exalted basically automatic bat-zappers? I mean, they are letting out ridiculously copious amounts of sunlight out of themselves, or, well, are capable of that. Isn't that an automatic anti-vampire field? Just a random thought.
 
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I had weirdly specific and unrelated thought when I was on the train, listening to Rhapsody of Fire.
Aren't Solar Exalted basically automatic bat-zappers? I mean, they are letting out ridiculously copious amounts of sunlight out of themselves, or, well, are capable of that. Isn't that an automatic anti-vampire field? Just a random thought.
IIRC the Solars' glow is not automatically considered actual sun light. There's a Charm that makes it so in Glories: Sun, but the basic effects of the Solar Anima does not produce sun light.
 
I had a weirdly specific and unrelated thought when I was on the train, listening to Rhapsody of Fire.
Aren't Solar Exalted basically automatic bat-zappers? I mean, they are letting out ridiculously copious amounts of sunlight out of themselves, or, well, are capable of that. Isn't that an automatic anti-vampire field? Just a random thought.

I am pretty sure bats are ok in sunlight. They are nocturnal, but can function fine in it.
 
IIRC the Solars' glow is not automatically considered actual sun light. There's a Charm that makes it so in Glories: Sun, but the basic effects of the Solar Anima does not produce sun light.
If I recall correctly, that's basically a massive air-breathing mermaid of a Charm, because I can't remember there being any indication that Solar animas weren't sunlight until it said so and let you pay 8-10xp to make it so.

As far as I'm concerned, if Fire Aspect anima banners are "actual fire", there's no reason for Solar ones not to be actual sunlight. Yes, this means "naked" mook ghosts without a body or something to hide in take damage when you flare (reducing an army of ghostly warriors to a Kung-fu duel with their Abyssal leader unless they have cunning necrotech-armoured corpses to inhabit) and that if you go down to the Underworld and slam your anima into totemic you're basically a walking nuclear wasteland. Feature, not bug.
 
If I recall correctly, that's basically a massive air-breathing mermaid of a Charm, because I can't remember there being any indication that Solar animas weren't sunlight until it said so and let you pay 8-10xp to make it so.

I think the question should be:
Do we have any indication that it is sunlight, before then.
 
All he needed was a non-permanent expensive defence tied to another Virtue - probably Valour or Conviction, so he could wind up in situations where he had to either back down from a fight or change his mind, or act intemperately, and could decide "FUCK TEMPERANCE I'MMA GONNA GET MY SMITE ON" without it essentially being the ST throwing the fight.

I think that him deciding he is going to kill you wouldn't violate temperance, on its own. Compassion maybe.
 
I think charms that make solar animas actual sunlight come from the same mental space as Mage, where you have to put riders on comparatively low level effects that produce light and say that it's not the same as sunlight because there's creatures in the game that are burned by sunlight, or there's magical effects that don't work in sunlight or end in sunlight or whatever. IDK if this is good or bad design, but I dislike air breathing mermaid taxes.
 
This was more amusing than usual, due to literally ALL THE DICE. And I noticed you claimed the Infernal token.
How did Piper keep a two-way convo going for that long? Standard stunt mote regen?

And the exorcist lady has a UMI stealth effect going on, huh.
And what might be disturbing levels of interest in the PC.
Looking forward to seeing that work out.

So one thing you'll have noted about Sunlit Sands is that Inks does not have oodles of diagnostic charms yet. I'm only just now starting to get them. A diagnostic charm, for the record, is one that confers or generates information. Last session I picked up Evidence Discerning Method and Judge's Ear, just in time to talk with Exorcist lady. Information is unimaginable power in almost any situation, especially in games. Part of Exalted's challenge as both player and storyteller, is effectively conveying meaningful, actionable information.

Like, this is something you don't get Told by the game, you have to learn, but as I've said before, even an excellency-boosted Exalt is not actually exhibiting true superhuman capability. They can compress the timescale, or call out genius on demand, but generally speaking, until you have an effect that says 'you can do this', raw successes only carry you so far.

Specifically, I don't have All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight, so I can't just flip on the charm and look at Exorcist, roll per+occult and instantly grasp her nature or the effects/mechanics of her powers. I have to do it the hard way by in-and-out of character deduction. It's Aleph's job to make sure that's possible. And the books don't teach you how.

So, shifting the topic not-so-subtly back to Inksgame...

I had fun this session! We got payoff on a bunch of things I've been setting up (you do not know how long I was sitting on those Exorcist notes and giggling over the scribbles in the margins), started expanding Inks' influence outside Gem (friggin' bullshit 12-success rolls to summarise a polity I'd expected her to only have distant interactions with for another five to six sessions or so goddammit) and cured Ajjim, yay! (I would totally have had him die horribly from his organs melting if he'd failed or botched that roll and maybe one more high-Diff stabilisation roll from Inks, and then given her a traumatised five-year old tigergirl to look after).

We also, uh, tracked down and cornered a stealth-focused Exorcist who'd maxed out her own pool on a fucking 6% probability pair of rolls where Inks did bullshit well and the Exorcist did amazingly badly.

... I really was not expecting that. Inks was meant to find a creepy trail of people who didn't want to acknowledge what they'd seen and had suppressed the memories and needed Inks to almost rip it out of them by force because of how much WP they had to spend to break the 'don't think about it' compulsion; leaving her with nothing but chills up her spine and some disturbing information about her target's capabilities that she could put to use in tracking them down with a custom-made plan designed to compensate for their stealth magic. BUT I GUESS NOPE WE'RE HAVING THIS CONFRONTATION NOW, WHOOP DE DOO.

(Though it might perhaps make more sense now as to why the Exorcist freaked the fuck out when Inks found her the first time. It's a fairly reasonable reaction when your stalkee-waifu of several months shows up literally at your office door and goes "hi, I'm looking for a mysterious culprit who's committed several murders PS it's you".)

(... there were probably better reactions she could have taken than attempting "me no speak the firetongues, sorry" on a Perception 5 genius, admittedly, but in her defence she was taken by surprise and subjected to full blast Inks-prettiness at point blank range. A certain degree of bamboozlement can be forgiven.)

Thinking about this- evaluating challenge is really difficult in Exalted. I was certainly not absolutely maxed out, but these kinds of situations happen a lot even in fairly simple comparative checks.

Like, we agreed that whoever got 5 successes over each other wins the contest. Further, Aleph levied an External Penalty of -4, which Inks charmed down to -1; so right there, 6 successes were spent just 'not failing'. Now strictly speaking, I likely spent 8m +1wp to get my 5 successes, as I only have Invest 4 at the moment. Anyway, the point is that Aleph as a storyteller has to account for the fact that as long as I have motes, and Inks has around 49 free motes between scenes, Inks can drop 10 or so on handwaving Difficulty 5 or less. She asked me point blank 'why u max excellency all the time'?

This is why Aleph. This is why.

Difficulty generally isn't supposed to go much higher than 7, even though it does in rare magical cases. As the book points out, feats of legend are generally considered Diff 5 by mortals. Exalts just pay ten motes and then whatever successes they roll after that are icing. Exalts are challenged in turn by external penalties more than anything on top of difficulty.

Anyway, strictly speaking, yes the Exorcist should have at least tied that contest, with an expected result of at least 10d or so.

On that note, I'm a pretty strong proponent of 'Game' over 'Writing' when it comes to Exalted. I trust the dice, but Aleph is more used to co-storytelling than I am. So I personally don't plan in terms of plot-beats or 'moments', I more look at the context of the roll and decide (when I'm STing) what the results are in relation to what the player wanted and what other factors I am presently juggling.

I should also stress, that for those of you running or playing the game, do not rush rolls. You are not supposed to roll until the ST or player has defined all relevant modifiers, doing so prejudices your results.

Whew. Rambling.
 
Hm.....

So I have an idea. So lets say that you infuse the surface of an area with repulsive force. When you hit it, you bounce off. No impact. No injury. Like hitting a trampoline.

So what class of sorcerous working is this? Like, say, is is terrestrial or celestial?
 
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