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General Exalted Thread

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EarthScorpion said:
Some of Thoth's things (a lot of them, really) require a very dubious interpretation of the rules.

Or in the case of the DB Breeding Manse, using the rules from Scroll of Heroes written by someone who had no fucking clue about anything whatsoever and so thought elementals were related to the Great Elemental Dragons and so a DB child of an elemental should auto-Exalt. NOPE.
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Agreed, Elementals and Dragon-blooded weaken the bloodline. Once He brought that up I went through the Thread on the Archive, and got to have fun, going yeah you can't do that.

I also found how he thought that building a manse automatically gave you any integrated artifacts when the manse was built was hilarious. You want artifacts in your manse (those AI he so loves putting in manses) you better know how to build them

You either need Personal knowledge or someone else to design the Manse, And If you want first age Manse powers, then you'd better have a reason for knowing how to build those powers. (Or just summon Amaliaon (that Manse Design Demon), but have fun letting the Infernals know where your manse is.

And Besides, this was the first manse the guy was building, and only had the IC knowledge to build, a Manse with up to the 2 dot powers, had only invested in the Twilight abilities, Athletics, Dodge, and Awareness (Tried to make traps, went nope, don't have the enough Larceny).
 
From the Monday Meetings;

- Exalted 3rd Edition: From Holden: "The Craft Charms are in the home stretch, and should be done this week, completing the Solar Charm set at long last! (Barring playtest-based alterations, of course.) Elsewhere, panoply and Evocations are undergoing edits based on the final shape of the craft system".
Sent the KS Survey out from Friday afternoon through until Sunday afternoon. For folks who don't know, the way KS has things set up, each Reward Tier gets a separate Survey and every single question on that Survey must be recreated for every Reward Tier. It is a lot of cutting and pasting of questions into the Survey form- good thing I got used to that doing a lot of the graphic design for WW when we were putting out eight products a month.
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Also, from Vance on Sorcery;

Sorcery is in "writing completed but still in need of final mechanics-looking to see if writing needs to be redone."
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Matthew G said:
You either need Personal knowledge or someone else to design the Manse
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There are two spells that let you make a manse with all the bells and whistles without requiring personal knowledge. Or rather, you use the spells to get a Yozi or Neverborn to make you a manse, which carries great risk unless you are the appropriate type of exalt, which merely reduces the risk to "probably not going to try and actively kill you" from "Almost certainly going to be a deathtrap"
 
samdamandias said:
There are two spells that let you make a manse with all the bells and whistles without requiring personal knowledge. Or rather, you use the spells to get a Yozi or Neverborn to make you a manse, which carries great risk unless you are the appropriate type of exalt, which merely reduces the risk to "probably not going to try and actively kill you" from "Almost certainly going to be a deathtrap"
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That would work, but I do believe those spells are limited access only available to their respective Exalt types due to pre-reqs (Infernal Bastion needs a (Yozi) sorcererous initiation up to Adamant, and the Abyssal one needs Void Circle Necromancy)
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
well that would be why i had to ask on SV. You'd think they'd put in an explanation when they introduced the Overdrive keyword in the errata.

Oh, wait, white wolf. So no you wouldn't think that. Silly me.
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The keyword isn't actually introduced in the errata, though. It's introduced elsewhere(the inkmonkey's articles), which is the primary source.
 
Matthew G said:
I had a player try to make one of the manses from that guy on the old White Wolf Forums who makes the broken manses Throth or something like that. I Said sure you can make the manse, but first, which manse powers do you know how to build?

His Character had no IC knowledge of how to make any of the more Esoteric manse powers and was thus unable to build the manse.

Personal knowledge on how to manipulate Manse powers to get a desired effect is required. You want a Time Acceleration Manse, you better know how to accelerate time
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If he meets the Ability requirements to build a Manse of that level, he knows how to build that manse. That's what having those Abilities means.
 
nick012000 said:
If he meets the Ability requirements to build a Manse of that level, he knows how to build that manse. That's what having those Abilities means.
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Ish, He did the same thing to me, Some stuff requires research, for example Black powder is fairly easy to make, so do let anyone with the abilities to make that make it?

What I (and any ST I game with, as I let them know what house rules I have previously used, so they may inflict them on me) is the Knowledge of the more esoteric knowledge, such as using wyld revocation and the control room powers to create a temporally accelerated Manse, which could in theory let you turn out a Massive army in less than a year, and ramp your cult up to, requires research into figuring out how.

It's the Same with artifacts from what I understand of the rules, as they require plans and so we applied the same to manses. for example there are two mundane workshop manse powers, one in Ordernals, the Other in Lords, the one in Lords is cheaper and Better, due to the First Age having a broader Knowledge Base.

So for Example If I was to go play as a Solar, Wyld Shape Up a massive tract of land with 5 dot demanses Everywhere on it, Build 5 dot manses there are rebuild the Realm Defense Grid, I should be Able to simply because I have the Ability requirements? You want to make a manse, this requires knowledge, and while the common powers and their uses are well known, their are more Esoteric uses (temporal acceleration, trees that are made of metal and grow). This is the reason for the restriction of manses by knowledge.

other wise its fine to assume the person knows how to implement powers. Mind you, this is mostly for powers in Lords, and for the more broken powers.
 
Scia said:
Uh that one solar circle spell that allows you to look into the past? I can't remember if that one made the transition from First to Second.
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See that... that's useful. Shadows of the Ancient Past is a celestial spell but that is most certainly something awesome enough to be worth bottling to have on hand for a 'prepared' sorceror. Heck, I could even imagine a Sorcerer-Archelogist having an entire bandelior of said veils or a belt of them, each marked with a different 'pre-prepared' time period to look back into. *definately writes that down for a future concept*

EarthScorpion said:
Summoning of the Harvest. Use that as emergency food relief for areas summoning famine - just send a vial of that off and let them get a harvest off.

Or for more hilarious uses, fire a bushel of blackberries at a target location - say, right in front of an enemy cavalry charge - and then lob the vial into that. What's that, you say? Your horses just charged into a thicket of brambles ripe with blackberries? Those are not going to be happy horses... and now you've got a defensive area which you can move skirmishers into while no one else can move through it in close order or on horseback without clearing the brambles.
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Holy heck that is definitely awesome! Multiple uses, reason to prepare in advance, useful in a method that allows other party members to shine AND allows a Sorcerer to do cool things while pretending to be a Dragonblooded. And since its Terrestrial Circle, it even allows for one to disguise yourself as one of the dragonblooded, or have a potential bit of 'merchandise' that you can disguise as something crafted by a DB!

Chloe Sullivan said:
The issue is that Paralyzing Contradiction is supposed to display the Ineffable Koan over the sorceror's head. So technically, when you unstopper (or break) the bottle, it's supposed to display over the caster's head. Which takes all the fun out of it. And even if it does display over random dude's head, would it use the caster's stats or the random dude's stats?
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Honestly, I'd try and stunt it and simply let the ST decide whichever one it was. Simply because the thought of throwing a jar or three into the enemy lines to stop large chunks of a charging beastmen horde in their tracks, before dashing back to to allied lines to meet the charge definitely seems 'cinematic' enough.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Some of Thoth's things (a lot of them, really) require a very dubious interpretation of the rules.

Or in the case of the DB Breeding Manse, using the rules from Scroll of Heroes written by someone who had no fucking clue about anything whatsoever and so thought elementals were related to the Great Elemental Dragons and so a DB child of an elemental should auto-Exalt. NOPE.
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Honestly, with the Thoth things he tried to get official 'answers' on the questions sending pms and messages to various developers for clarification or errata but none of them ever got back to him, so he just went by the dubious stuff.
 
Sucal said:
See that... that's useful. Shadows of the Ancient Past is a celestial spell but that is most certainly something awesome enough to be worth bottling to have on hand for a 'prepared' sorceror. Heck, I could even imagine a Sorcerer-Archelogist having an entire bandelior of said veils or a belt of them, each marked with a different 'pre-prepared' time period to look back into. *definately writes that down for a future concept*
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Something else that you might find interesting is the spell to change ones face , a travel spell and of course the teleportation ones as when you got to flee you want to evade having to wait 2 turns to cast it.
 
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Scia said:
Something else that you might fihnd interesting is the spell to change ones face , a travel spell and of course the teleportation ones as when you got to flee you want to evade having to wait 2 turns to cast it.
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I'm not too sure about the face changing one, mostly because thats the type of effect that the Lunar should play with more and spending a massive chunk of resources just for an appearance boost seems frivilous for the character. Especially when it takes two days to make a vial and at least some of the vials may be needed as 'bribes'/'payment' for Guild members to transport the various reagents long distance (Resource Five purchases don't grow on trees, and until the army maker or kingdom builder can get infrastructure in place, reagents need to come from somewhere)...

Though the face one might make for an interesting product *jolts down notes*

A good travel spell is definitely needed though. I've always had a thing for Cloud Trapazee myself... who doesn't like their own flying Nimbus. I do hope that 3e does let Lunars get two circles each of sorcery and necromancy though, this really is a character concept that would be quite awesome for a Lunar, more so then a solar even if it started originally as a thought exercise on how to use a rather broken artifact in ways that are fun.

Walk through the streets of Malfeas, with Demonic Prayer strips serving as protection and a write of safe passage. Barter scraps of knowledge with the deathlords, dig through the depths of the earth looking for reagents... with profit first and foremost on the mind. Admittedly though, I've always wanted to make a Lunar that was focused first and 'foremost' on collecting forms and such, and sorcery can act as a 'crutch' to give it a party role.
 
Something else from Vance on the Monday Meetings thread, this time regarding MA;

Martial arts went over a final pass to integrate some new system technology Holden and I came up with, and are in to be included in phase 3 playtesting barring redline edits.
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Also, the first of some unpublished Ink Monkey Charms that got the okay;

Link.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
Something else from Vance on the Monday Meetings thread, this time regarding MA;



Also, the first of some unpublished Ink Monkey Charms that got the okay;

Link.
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That is an impressively useless Charm. Wow. So in return for a Solar Charm, you get a pool of dice which can be used as Excellency dice for mental actions. 8/10XP for something which is more limited than an Excellency and provides a very limited dice pool, woo hoo. Not. Also, I like the fact that you can withdraw (Essence) dice. But you can always normally spend 4m on an Excellency and run mote neutral. And at E4, Infernals get Effortless (Yozi) Dominance. Great. So at the point it becomes as good as an Excellency, it's obsolete. And it's blatantly obvious that it's a terrible Charm, and the most casual familiarity should tell you that. Which means either no one told him that, or he was told that and ignored it.

There is a reason Eric Minton, for all that he's okay with fluff, should never be let near mechanics.
 
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Walker of the Yellow Path said:
It didn't list an ability prerequisite. I thought that they were going with Ability Based Infernals in 3E.
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Nah, they ditched that idea after the fan backlash. The Infernals were interesting because they were so different from the other Exalted out there, and changing them to make them more similar to the Solars.


(that and the devs don't really have a good history with writing Solariods beyond the Core book, th Abyssals were a disaster.
 
greensun said:
Nah, they ditched that idea after the fan backlash. The Infernals were interesting because they were so different from the other Exalted out there, and changing them to make them more similar to the Solars.
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Pretty sure that you're wrong. GSP's are still going to be ability based.
greensun said:
(that and the devs don't really have a good history with writing Solariods beyond the Core book, th Abyssals were a disaster.
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From what I understand, basically the whole of 2e was a disaster :p
 
greensun said:
No, I heard they went back to the drawing board after the fan backlash.
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For the fluff, not the crunch. The shift to ability based has been met with mixed reactions all round: some hate it, some like it, some see it as necessary. That said, going forward their ability based, though who know if that will be true whenever we get that book.
 
Kylar said:
For the fluff, not the crunch. The shift to ability based has been met with mixed reactions all round: some hate it, some like it, some see it as necessary. That said, going forward their ability based, though who know if that will be true whenever we get that book.
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Stupid, the main reason why the Infernal book sold so well was how different it was; Charms that were not based on how skilled you were like Solars, but instead on how you acted on the themes of a Yozi. You weren't fast because you had superhuman skill with atheltcis, you were fast because you ran with the winds of Adorjan! You could change your form with the power of Malfeas or become like SWLINH and become the embodiment of Hierarchy.

That was what made the Infernals intresting and fun to use, not some fixation on Solars.
 
greensun said:
Stupid, the main reason why the Infernal book sold so well was how different it was; Charms that were not based on how skilled you were like Solars, but instead on how you acted on the themes of a Yozi. You weren't fast because you had superhuman skill with atheltcis, you were fast because you ran with the winds of Adorjan! You could change your form with the power of Malfeas or become like SWLINH and become the embodiment of Hierarchy.

That was what made the Infernals intresting and fun to use, not some fixation on Solars.
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And there is one of the problem, in a nutshell, with current Infernals: Why are they linked to Solars? About the only part of their fluff or crunch that actually gives a damn is their traits (caste, backgrounds) and die caps. It's telling that Infernal actually work better when they aren't straight jacketed into Solar castes, and for all Past Lives is cool, in many ways it works better as an Abyssal background (ghosts of the past and all that). For something as big in Exalted as the Solars are, that lack of any sort of thematic link to the Solars is an issue. If they wanted to keep the Solar link, they pretty much had to bring the Infernals more in line with the Solars. That, and ability charms are much easier for when you have multiple sources of thematics for power, since you can just make Malfean and Adorjan Melee charms and not need an entire charmset to go with those (and the issue that every one of those charmsets you add adds more unfavored charms, some of them nessassary).

So yeah, it was basically 'remove the Solar part of the backstory fullstop, or actually do something with it'. There are pros and cons to either way, and people would be pissed either way. Frankly though? I would have cut Infernals off from Solars fullstop, removed their status as solariods and just said they were Celestial Exalts of Hell and gotten on with it. Still interested in what they'll do with them for 3e mind.
 
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