Probably by getting blamed for the deaths of Sidereals that were assassinated by their "allies".Literally how.
The original members of the Bronze Faction murdered any Sidereals that disagreed with them.
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General Exalted Thread
The original members of the Bronze Faction murdered any Sidereals that disagreed with them.
- Location
- Ottawa
I think it's fake for mud to spontaneously appear in the world's most opulent feast just so that people can end up face down in it.
I know the mud was a metaphor. But I disagree with the metaphor, too. I doubt events arranged themselves to make the Solars die uniformly humiliatingly.
Some probably died laughing, eating, or drinking. Killed during a feast, so quickly that they never even noticed their own deaths. Others, I'm sure, died on their feet with their weapons in their hands. Probably a few died begging, as humiliatingly as you could want. Likely a few found more dignity in their deaths than in the last hundred years of their lives. There was probably a 15-success spontaneous death poem in there somewhere, and someone who died thinking the whole thing was an elaborate prank.
What I'm trying to get at here is that it must've been messy. I dislike attempts to impose uniform narratives on major events; when hundreds of god-kings are killed, they're gonna do it in a wide variety of ways.
And by "revenge-porn-y" I mean "reminiscent of revenge porn". Violent, in a way designed to make the victim seem weak and contemptible.
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azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
You're saying that people who spent literal centuries studying combat - including some who focused on unarmed combat - died "like a bitch" basically because they died period.
People are disagreeing. You're assuming this means they had badass deaths. That's not the case.
You're ignoring the broad spectrum of ways people can die between "badass" and "bitch", jumping from one extreme to the other.
- Location
- Singapore
Besides, the fact that it took thousands of dragonblooded, an entire first age army, dozens of sideral martial artist masters, as well as a surprise attack at the one moment where the Solars are at their weakest and least on guard, showed that, yeah, solars aren't chumps.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I don't give a solitary shit for whether they died humiliatingly. For all I care they realised what was happening and arranged matters with their assassins so that all the Solars stood up and performed a heart-wrenching musical number so the Usurpers could obligingly stab them at the apex of the crescendo, immortalising their final moments in song.
My point is, and has only ever been, that aside from a few who stayed with their fortresses, the Solar Elders died in one-sided confrontations where they were totally outmatched by an enemy that knew them and their capabilities, and succeeded in preparing accordingly. As a result, they died ingloriously, undramatically, overwhelmed and swiftly dispatched.
Yes, because they died in an ambush, against an enemy that prepared with superhuman skill to murder them with overwhelming force. What do you think happens in that sort of matchup? Because, I don't see it resulting in a protracted, climactic fight scene.
To me, that just raises the bar necessary to chump them. The Usurpers met that bar.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Frankly, all these options are more interesting than them all dying without realizing what's going on or getting insta-ganked.
Because fundamentally, the Usurpation is one of the events that broke the world. The glories of the First Age didn't crumble just because the Solars weren't around to maintain the top level infrastructure any more.
The Dragonblooded and the Sidereals ambushed the Solars at the Calibration Feast because it was a time when they would be away from the center of their power, away from their weapons and armor, away from their armies and servants and surrounded by enemies.
Meru is still scarred by the forces unleashed that day and the Dragonblooded do not go there without very good reason.
Quite a few Solars no doubt went down easy. But as a whole, the Usurpation was a bloody, brutal affair that no one walked away from in one piece. For it to be otherwise reduces the Usurpation from an epic and terrible rebellion against the god-tyrants that ruled the world to an unceremonious jobbing followed by the Sidereals going "Okay that's enough mischief from you. Now go to your room and think about what you've done."
"swiftly dispatched" kinda glosses over the fact Meru became an uninhabitable ruin overnight from the sheer amount of spells and powerful artifacts and powers that had to be used to kill 200+ God-Kings. That right there, plus the fact we know some outright survived the initial alpha strike (at least one is known to have survived long enough for their Lunar spouse to send multiple Infallible Messengers to warn the Lunar Host) shows that no, they did not just get ganked like you describe.
You seem to believe that all the Solars present in the Calibration Feast died quickly and with little trouble on the part of the DBs and Sids, to a well-planned and completely successful decapitation strike with only the ones who were not present and could rely on loyal mooks and powerful strongholds taking more time.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'll give you overwhelmed, but I dunno about you, dying while fighting a force that hopelessly outnumbers you is incredibly dramatic and/or glorious. More glorious than rotting away from being a monster who nobody will stand up to.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
One of the explanation for how the Calibration Feast went down was that somebody hid a bunch of Soulbreaker Orbs underneath the feast hall. To put that in terms of our world, that'd be like somebody triggering multiple tactical nukes at a UN summit. Nobody present would die gloriously, but for sure there'd be one hell of a mess afterwards, and that's ignoring the few who I have repeatedly mentioned who stayed home and heard the news in time to bunker up.
Pardon, where did I specify 'all'? If I meant so high a bar as that, I'd say so explicitly. I believe the overwhelming majority died as you say, yes. There would've been a few exceptions, where misfortune or hidden magics upset the Usurpers plans, so that the execution was messier, or perhaps even became an actual fight. I just don't think that handful of exceptions matters compared to the majority of cases.
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Didn't Chiara melt most of old Chiaroscuro with her last strike?
And didn't the result of battles between DBs and Solars on Saigoth cause the the entire continent to sink into the Underworld? Didn't whats-her-face, the Queen of Luthe, scuttle the capital of the West and sink a powerful weapons platform to the bottom of the ocean?
And didn't at least one Solar stay alive long enough to destroy the Spidersilk Dam, drowning the entire White Valley province and destroying the North's main breadbasket? Didn't another, can't remember his name, live long enough to sell his soul to the Yozis and father the apheliotropes, whose empire resisted all efforts by the Shogunate to put it down and lasted until the Arch-Sorcerer turn the Eye of Autochthon upon them?
About the only Solars who survived the initial slaughter who went on to die "undramatically" were the Invisible Fortress guy and his cronies, who managed to kill each other and/or starve to death.
- Location
- The end of all things
That's funny, because a bunch of WMDs detonating in the basement is what I'd call good cover for an escape.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Yes. The Solars who survived the initial slaughter. Note 'slaughter', implying a great majority of Solars who did not survive.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
And many of the targets of that ambush prepared for ambushes with superhuman skill. And we know that Solars can defend themselves normally against ambushes if they try to learn how.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Yes. Against other Solars, the usual intrigues of paranoid God-Kings. Not against a mass invasion of Dragonblooded, by which every depiction of the Usurpation agrees they were utterly blindsided.
So speaking of the Upsurpation I had a Shard idea for how it went down.
MRL catches wind of the planning for it earlier and then grins beautifully.
She knows that the Unconquered Sun has turned away from Creation and why.
Donning her crown once more she declares royally that the Solar Deliberative must go. Then promptly starts training hard and pointing out weakeness's in the plans shown her.
At the Calibration Feast its MRL who kicks it off by pulling her crown from elsewhere in a dramtic moment declaring her judgement of the Deliberative and one shotting the Hierophant
MRL dies in the mess atop the bodies of her enemies and eventually as the dust settles the Shogunate arises
Around the empty throne of Emperess MRL awaiting the UCS to crown her successor
MRL catches wind of the planning for it earlier and then grins beautifully.
She knows that the Unconquered Sun has turned away from Creation and why.
Donning her crown once more she declares royally that the Solar Deliberative must go. Then promptly starts training hard and pointing out weakeness's in the plans shown her.
At the Calibration Feast its MRL who kicks it off by pulling her crown from elsewhere in a dramtic moment declaring her judgement of the Deliberative and one shotting the Hierophant
MRL dies in the mess atop the bodies of her enemies and eventually as the dust settles the Shogunate arises
Around the empty throne of Emperess MRL awaiting the UCS to crown her successor
So, as much as I would appreciate help with the general planning for my first session, it looks like I will have to ask specific questions to get any help other than someone pointing out the one thing I had decided on that was stupid. Which is appreciated, but I do need help on the things I actually don't know about.
For instance, Stealth. Does distance have any affect whatsoever on rolls to hide and to detect someone hiding? And how do you know how obscured someone is if there isn't a fully encompassing effect like fog or darkness blocking things, but instead a bunch of things that may or may not be in the way at any given time, like trees in a forest?
Also, Anima Flux. When it first turns on at the 8 mote level, it affects everyone in Essence feet. Not yards, feet. And then the distance it covers is never mentioned again. Does it not change? Because that is significantly underwhelming, and I have no idea why they bothered making charms to immunize your soldiers to it, because that will never affect people you aren't in personal combat with.
For instance, Stealth. Does distance have any affect whatsoever on rolls to hide and to detect someone hiding? And how do you know how obscured someone is if there isn't a fully encompassing effect like fog or darkness blocking things, but instead a bunch of things that may or may not be in the way at any given time, like trees in a forest?
Also, Anima Flux. When it first turns on at the 8 mote level, it affects everyone in Essence feet. Not yards, feet. And then the distance it covers is never mentioned again. Does it not change? Because that is significantly underwhelming, and I have no idea why they bothered making charms to immunize your soldiers to it, because that will never affect people you aren't in personal combat with.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Honestly, the real reason behind Enfolded in the Dragons Wings to immunize your soldiers to Elemental Battlefield and Dragon Vortex Attack. Protecting them from your Anima is only really useful if you've got bodyguards, since they'll probably try to stay close to you to do their jobs.
Here are some relevant quotes from 2E core.
I hope this helps.
That makes sense, but does it mean that the radius stays at Essence feet? That's still not the major advantage I was always told it was.
Well, it doesn't answer my question of what I should be giving them if they start with a clear line of sight to each other between trees in, say, an orchard, at a half mile's distance, but it is a clear attempt to help me, so thanks anyway.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
It's not a crazy advantage. But it means that a flaring dragon can severely injure a mortal just by being near, and at full anima flare can just grapple a dude and hold them there as his Anima kills them. Especially if it's a Wood or Fire Aspect.
I just thought of the answer for this one. You aren't always in combat and hurting people close to you is a lot bigger problem when you are trying to perform surgery on them than in open combat.
Oh that is more specific. The fact they start with a clear line of sight with each other means neither of them opens combat from surprise and if they want to use surprise at all they need to reestablish surprise to go into hiding again. The trees would make it so that they have the option (as lacking hiding places makes it impossible), but probably shouldn't provide any bonuses or penalties unless our consider the trees to be particularly good for hiding in. The roll to establish surprise is (steath+dexerity) vs (wits+awareness+2) for each person you are hiding from and the success of your hiding is tracked against each persons roll individually. Later your enemies can roll (perception +awareness) at the difficulty of your original roll to restablish suprises successes in an attempt to find you again as their action or as part of a flurry.
- Location
- England
Given that one of the core night solars past life had at some point gone through a purge of exalts he thought were associating with the yozi's, at least some of them should have been paranoid about getting ganked.
And also given the assumed low opinion of other exalts, they would have been prepared for a DB force helping the solar ganker the same way regular humans help DB gankers (wyld hunts) in the aftermath. They just were never expecting the whole DB host to even consider it without it being the plot of another solar.
Its not unreasonable to say that a lot of solars probably died at the feast quickly because they were surprised and unprepared, but the implications of the usurpation are that the damage from it devastated infrastructure across creation. This suggests that the ones who weren't quite caught by surprise went down fighting in the most brutal war since the last usurpation.
Moreover, the ones in their fortresses also had kill teams sent after them, but the sidereals couldn't get all the solars, and lost a good deal of their number in the attempt. Not to mention the mountain of DB corpses, left with enough of its hierarchy devastated that they could form a unified government.
I don't think the usurpation should ever be presented as anything less than a terrible sacrifice, borne of the fear of total annihilation. As soon as the calibration feast went down, the winner was clear due to sheer number disparity between the forces, and the fact the sidereals had circumvented the most vital part of the celestial exaltation kill vehicle, the respawning function. They still had to actually kill those solars and that left great scars creation has never recovered from.
The solars that escaped the initial ambush went down like wounded predators, dangerous till their last breaths, and its kind off insulting to everybody who got killed putting them down to say they went down like chumps
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
This is actually something of an open question. The aftermath of the Usurpation is generally rolled together with the Shogunate, of which we know very little. It's entirely possible that Creation's infrastructure was primarily devastated by the loss of Solar maintenance and Shogunate infighting, and that the Usurpation itself did relatively little damage. Possible, but kind of lame.
Eos, you're really not saying anything here which I haven't said already, to the point that I'm growing kind of irritated at people continuing to repeat the same points.
- Location
- my house
So does anyone know how I would go about getting this bookmarked?