Salty
Shadow Cabal Assumptor Supreme
- Location
- Sun, Moon, Talia
- Pronouns
- I/Me
That would be an excellent idea...
If GMs were ever crazy enough to build NPCs in point-buy or go through full character generation for them.
General Exalted Thread
If GMs were ever crazy enough to build NPCs in point-buy or go through full character generation for them.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If they're NPCs, them being better than human's great, cause it makes them more of a challenge when my dragon blooded fights one.
Or more of a reward when my lunar breeds them.
Salty
Shadow Cabal Assumptor Supreme
- Location
- Sun, Moon, Talia
- Pronouns
- I/Me
The context of the discussion is about why stable, true-breeding races and lines of beastmen should not be strictly superior to humans in-setting or mechanically.
So sure, use first-generation beastmen as the Lunar supersoldier equivalent. But that's not really what the discussion's about.
Because then you have to answer the question: "Why does Creation still have regular humans in it if Beastmen are so much better than them?"
And you also have to answer the question: "Why is it that Celestial Exaltations in general preferentially seek out non-Beastmen when they could seek out Beastmen instead and gain superior fighting ability for the price of basically nothing?" I doubt the primordials treated a swole wolf-dude any better than a regular dude, so you'd want your Dawn castes to be swole wolf-dudes to combine all the power of Crinos form and all the power of a Solar Exaltation in one shiny package.
Exalted as a line looks pretty dimly on the idea of massed superhuman shock troops for some reason or other, probably because that's the Dragonbloods' niche.
Especially since with the mutation system as written (and even with Revlid's mutation system) I don't think it's hard to engineer some kind of ridiculous supersoldier mutant who can wreck a Dragonblood's day one on one. Which is probably the reason why @EarthScorpion's rule of thumb is that only net 0 point mutation species can reliably self-perpetuate without aid, because otherwise little would stop you from making SPACE MARINES to SPACE MARINE their way through Creation as a fire and forget project.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
I think this says more about Dragonbloods than mutants.
I think this says more about Dragonbloods than mutants.
It doesn't. Some of the mutations, especially when stacked, get pretty ludicrous. Multiple arms especially.
(There is a reason that Alchemicals, as @Jon Chung noted, fare pretty well in 2E fightan' and it's because of the Mecha-Shiva build where they can throw out like, six attacks at pretty ridiculous accuracy without spending a single mote on extra action charms).
They probably wouldn't beat an experienced combat-monkey DB from the start but a super mutant could probably make a starting character combat DB pretty sad.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Because beastmen are a fairly new thing on the face of creation, and because there are a lot of powerful interests with interest in the preservation of humanity. Like, do you think a beastman having a few advantages over a human is going to stop them being beaten back by a Terrestrial?
It's not like we're talking about some overwhelming power here. This is a matter of a few additional dots in a few attributes, and some situational benefits like claws and the like.
Just how powerful do you believe an average beastman is? Also, did beastmen even exist at the time of the Primordial?
The fact that Solars are allowed to have stats below 5 says that exaltation don't seek out the absolute most powerful person to exalt in. It's more about personality and destiny than anything.
Whether beastmen need to eat extra food or not is not actually gonna overthrow the dragon blooded. Like, I'm looking at the stats for wolf men right now, and we're talking about a couple of extra dots in physical stats, and a few other bits and pieces. Dragon Blooded have an entire charm set. Beastmen do not approach them.
Edit: Like, Buck Ogres exist. Yet somehow they aren't really doing much to replace dragon blooded.
Edit Edit: To be honest, the fact that there's nothing short of another exalt or a major supernatural that can even start to challenge an exalt is kind of a problem with the setting IMHO.
The setting makes a lot more sense if you assume mortals are actually somewhat relevant to national power, and makes the setting feel bigger.
If that's happening then I'd say that's a problem with your system. I'm also not quite sure how you're going to do it given that dragon blooded, even with just excellencies, can throw like, 2-3 automatic successes at their actions.
TBH I'm pretty happy with the idea of lunars making beastmen space marines to serve as giant mook or elite mook opponents for dragon blooded, solars or whatever, or creating them as elite mook followers for their own parties. That, to me, sounds pretty cool.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, we saw her in silhouette. We just didn't see if she crossed the furry threshold. :B
Because Creation isn't a perfectly spherical Darwinian contest where having Keen Eyes inevitably makes you more successful. Humans are the dominant group because they're the dominant group. They have all the advantages of large, powerful, established civilization, all the food production of the Blessed Isle, productive capacity, etc.
(Note: I'm assuming beastfolk have some edges but are not grossly superhuman. I don't know what mutation systems you guys are referencing, Revlid's or otherwise. I'm just going with "Maybe these dudes have Boundless Endurance and Keen Eyes" types, such as described in 3E's core)
We end up with a fantasy version of the historical rise of Agriculture. Hunter-Gatherers were larger, stronger, and more healthy than people from agricultural society. But they were outnumbered and lacked the myriad benefits of interconnected civilization and specialized labor. So the hunter-gatherers universally lost.
Actual Darwinian processes are influenced a lot by luck, happenstance, who gets into a niche first, and that all-too-important trait: Which animals humans like.
Which brings us back to Dragonblooded. It's canonical that the DBs genocided the shit out of the many races created by Solars, simply because they had the touch of Anathema on them. Beastfolk generally trace back to either the Wyld or Lunars, so, same deal. You'd fully expect DBs to go all Warhammer 40k on them for most of history. If they weren't, then beastfolk would be exactly as prevalent on the Blessed Isle as the Threshold, which isn't so.
Naturally, in recent times, the reach of DBs has grown less long. Groups of them could hide in distant corners of the world to repopulate, while others were created by Lunars, gods, etc (presumably for some reason rather than out of sheer vanity), so they're more common, but more tribal.
The end result is that you have folks with some edges, but who are disadvantaged by a lack of access to geomancy, artifacts, money, or powerful allies...
...which is reflected in character creation by having fewer available Merit dots, which means you have less access to manses, artifacts, money, or powerful allies. Funny how that works.
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- Location
- Ottawa
Maybe this is arbitrary and silly, but nonmagical beastfolk being categorically superior to humans strikes me as implausible. Things like fur and claws and cat-style eyes have drawbacks; sticking them on a human wouldn't give you a superior being.
It's not arbitrary, and it's not silly; you're absolutely right, in real-world terms. However, we're discussing Exalted, whose rules are arbitrary (as much as they try to pretend otherwise) and silly (arguably, depending on your opinion), so facts need not apply.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Would it be possible for you to list the rest of your compendiums? I have the Demon, Geomantic and Ghost ones bookmarked, along with this new one, but are there others?
It is only relatively recently in the history of agriculture that became the case, for millennia there have been plenty of times nomads have conquered sedentary civilizations.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cat eyes do have drawbacks, but that's not the same as everything always being a tradeoff. Eagle eyes are straight-up better than human eyes despite being about the same size. They have a wider field of view, vastly better distance vision, better resolution, have five types of color-sensing cones instead of three allowing for more vivid color discrimination, and can see into the UV spectrum. To my knowledge, they have no downsides at all, except for how far they can swivel, which is solved by putting them in a human. (Unsurprisingly, there's more evolutionary pressure towards sharp vision for an eagle than a human.)
And vision's the best sense Humans have, so it's worse in other areas. Fur or feathers are likewise pretty useful, which is why birds and mammals use them in every land biome I can think of. (This isn't a recent phenomenon. Turns out pterosaurs were furred reptiles, that dinosaurs had feathers, etc.)
But forget that nerd shit. More pertinently: There isn't, strictly speaking, any such thing as 'nonmagical' anything in Exalted. 'Mundane' processes are actually dictated by an interplay of Essence flows, Least Gods, the Loom of Fate, the Shinma, etc, rather than anything we'd recognize as physical laws.
Conceded. I was thinking of the general spread of agricultural societies across Europe, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, and elsewhere, but you're right that it wasn't universal.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
It's a matter of investment, Exalted could put time into building a balanced "Build your own body" system with reasonable trade offs for each body part for mortals and others. however those resources could also go into pretty much any of their priorities.
frozenchicken
Does not have a custom title.
Elemental Creature
Shale Hare
Earth 1, Air 1
"Ye gotta watch ye'self if the plains get too windy. 'Fore ye know, ye'll be knee-deep in them muckle-damned Dirt Lops!"
In places where Essence overflows, elementals naturally form in a manner suited to the predominent aspects of their environment. Perhaps it is no surprise then, that in the most common environments, the most annoyingly ubiquitous elementals take form. Shale Hares (also called 'Grit Rabbits') arise when the regular winds around a location have sufficient strength to whip about significant portions of dust; the playful conflict giving form to a whirling mass of overly-energetic dirt. These amalgams of opposing elements gain much from their fusion, including dual affinities, a particular fondness for both heights and enclosed spaces, and a personality that is widely agreed to be irritating more often than not.
Summoning and Uses: Whilst their buoyant personalities can be tiresome, Shale Hares are commonly used for aiding in rituals that involve the Aspects of Earth and Air. Moreover, they are known to have an intense fondness for airships, and can often be found bartering scut work on board in exchange for travel opportunities.
Shale Hare
Earth 1, Air 1
"Ye gotta watch ye'self if the plains get too windy. 'Fore ye know, ye'll be knee-deep in them muckle-damned Dirt Lops!"
In places where Essence overflows, elementals naturally form in a manner suited to the predominent aspects of their environment. Perhaps it is no surprise then, that in the most common environments, the most annoyingly ubiquitous elementals take form. Shale Hares (also called 'Grit Rabbits') arise when the regular winds around a location have sufficient strength to whip about significant portions of dust; the playful conflict giving form to a whirling mass of overly-energetic dirt. These amalgams of opposing elements gain much from their fusion, including dual affinities, a particular fondness for both heights and enclosed spaces, and a personality that is widely agreed to be irritating more often than not.
Summoning and Uses: Whilst their buoyant personalities can be tiresome, Shale Hares are commonly used for aiding in rituals that involve the Aspects of Earth and Air. Moreover, they are known to have an intense fondness for airships, and can often be found bartering scut work on board in exchange for travel opportunities.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No, it tells me that the mutation system as written in 2e is fucking awful and you'd still have a better system if you didn't have one at all.I think this says more about Dragonbloods than mutants.
Exaltations were made to seek out humans, so the exaltation process usually remove aspects that would make the Exalt "Not-Human".
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Also isn't there a theory that having greater natural abilities raises the bar on "Heroic" deeds?
It really depends on what the exaltation decides is a Exaltation worthy deed. Solar Exalts for example often seek out people who are trying to face an insurmountable challenge, and only the Exaltation lets them push through to achieve victory/success(note I say often, not always. There are a thousand reasons somebody would exalt, and I'm just paraphrasing from the rule books).
If you have physical attributes that are notably superior than a baseline human, its probably more rare for you to face that insurmountable challenge. Now this particular instance probably only really applies to physical challenges, and doesn't really affect things like somebody trying to write an detailed thesis or something but it COULD effect people and how often they exalt.
Well, people that know Supernatural Martial Arts or have a Sorcerous Initiation are less likely to receive an exaltation.
I'm sorry, are you claiming that beastmen can't maintain complex society and at a fundamental level they are utterly incapable of handling social backgrounds in the same way as a baseline human - hence why they always have fewer, even in full-beastman societies? And so even in full beastman societies, they are dysfunctional and get fewer backgrounds?
Because if you're not claiming that, stop trying to use chargen arguments to claim that they always suffer those alleged disadvantages. I say "alleged" because I reject the idea that those things are an integral part of being a beastman. Beastmen are totally capable of being the Man in charge of the society, keeping slaves, and otherwise being just like any other human.
Because that's what they are. Human. They're not metaphysically any different.
I am totally down with sticking feathered aristocratic utahraptormen down in the South East, who are triceratops-riding samurai archers who rule over a complex society and are totally capable of using - to give one example - things other than pine cones as toilet paper. And just because they happen to be half man, half utahraptor doesn't mean they're obliged to squat in the wild places, bemoaning how despite the fact they're better than a human in any way they're so discriminated against.
Greater Sicklebirdmen
Greater sicklebirds are a feared predator in the South Eastern jungles, where they fill a similar ecological niche to the bears of Creation. The greater sicklebirdmen of Keren are said to have been born from a tribe who venerated these fearsome predators before the pernicious influence of the Wyld twisted them into the shape of their gods. These sicklebirdmen are brave and arrogant warriors, who conquered the kingdom of Ayaroi on the southern border of Taira and now rule over it as the nobility. In battle they wear brightly painted lacquered armour, made from southern hardwoods, and are famous archers from the back of their trihorn mounts. Human and beastmen slaves work the cleared areas of their jungles, growing both fodder for the animals their masters eat as well as cocaine which is sold to the riverboat traders on the Grey River. The greater sicklebirdmen are noted for their well-developed instinctual coordination, preferring to dogpile their enemies.
Breed Baseline
Cosmetic Mutation (0) - Crest of feathers on head, feathers on limbs and torso, scales on feet, features that hybridise human and sicklebird, teeth that are sharp but not sharp or prominent enough to mechanically count as different for most individuals (some have more developed teeth).
Large (1) - Are the size of a very large human being, averaging just over two metres tall.
Pack Instincts (1) - Clever girl...
Greedy (-1) - Need 25% more food than a normal human
Picky (-1) - Are carnivorous
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Of course I'm not, but at the same time, there are clearly prejudices against, and the most powerful states in the world are set against, such societies. Like, the blessed isle, which is the source of most of the world's wealth clearly doesn't like them. That is going to make them potentially poorer and with less artifacts or contacts.
Stormwhite Homebrew: Bloodstained Silver Chains
- Location
- Britain
Made my first crack at homebrewing an artifact for Ex 3, intended for Dragonblood use. Still need to redraft the fluff, though.
Bloodstained Silver Chains
(Red and White Jade Chain Shirt, Artifact 3)
The Bloodstained Silver Chains is a chain shirt that could be considered beautiful, with its shimmering white jade catching the light in a most pleasing manner. It is not considered such, however, as it is, for lack of a better term, marred by splotches of red jade scattered among it, giving it the unsettling appearance of being stained in blood. While it remains a splendid garment, it cannot be called 'beautiful' by traditional standards.
While it is presumably a relic of the First Age, it was first recorded found by an enterprising young Dragonblood on a field of blood and war, where a mighty battle was fought the eve before. Recognising its power, he took it for his own and wore it forever after, until he fell in battle against a rival, who took it for their own. This cycle continued for many years, and by now the shirt is rumoured to curse those who wear it to fall in battle before their time, as its wearers have yet to pass it on peacefully, always succumbing to death in battle or another form of conflict.
Themes: Blood, War, Fear and Conquest
Attunement Bonus: This artifact is passed through hands by right of conquest, and that quintessential property is reflected in the wearer. When an Exalt who is attuned to this slays a non-trivial opponent, their anima flares up a level.
Bloody Tyrant's Regalia
Cost: 1a; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The bearer's anima lights up in a red blaze of terror, a visage of horrid fear taking shape behind her. When her anima is Burning or higher, she may use this charm to supplement an intimidation roll made during battle, converting (her Essence) dice to automatic successes.
Wound the Weakened Heart
Cost: 5m, 1a, 1wp; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Decisive-only, Perilous
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
Bringing the power of those she has slain into her body, the Exalt strikes with terrible surety and clarity, cutting her foe down as efficiently as possible. Feeding upon her foe's fear, provided they have an intimacy towards her relating to awe or terror, she converts [Intimacy Level] of damage dice into successes. Limited to once per scene, unless the blow reduced the non-trivial opponent's health track from full to zero in a single strike.
Glory to the Crimson Banner
Cost: 3m; Mins: Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Brotherhood
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Bloody Tyrant's Regalia
The vicious Essence flowing through this armour knows the tides of battle better than any other, and imbues the Exalt wearing it with the grim understanding of how to best take advantage of their foes' weakness. After slaying a non-trivial enemy, the Exalt can use her momentum against the next foe she lays low, gaining [War] bonus Initiative when they next Crash an enemy. However, her momentum can be turned against her, and if Crashed herself, she immediately loses 2 additional initiative.
Brotherhood: The Exalted's sworn brothers are emboldened by her success, and gain this effect at [War/2], without being affected by the drawback, although they lose the bonus if Crashed.
Exact the Blood Price
Cost: 5m; 3i Mins: Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Perilous, Withering-only
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Wound the Weakened Heart
The Exalt reaps a bloody harvest across the battlefield, and knows how to extract a toll from those who dare face them in battle. After making a successful withering attack on a foe, they can invoke the dread Essence that flows through them, inflicting superficial but painful injuries. Until their foe makes a successful [Resistance + Stamina] check, against Difficulty [(Essence + War)/2], rolled once per round, they act as if they had a wound penalty of -2. Usable once per scene, resetting if the Exalt undergoes Initiative Shift.
March of the Nightmare Conqueror
Cost: 10m, 3a, 1wp; Mins: Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Exact the Blood Price, Glory to the Crimson Banner
The Exalt has mastered the Bloodstained Silver Chains, surpassing all who have come before in its use. By invoking its terrible power, once per season, provided they have participated in a major battle, they can summon the spirits of the fallen as war ghosts, bound to their will.
The War-Ghosts of the Bloody Fields
Essence: 1; Willpower: 5; Join Battle: 10 dice
Magnitude: 11 Motes: 60
Actions: Feats of Strength: 5 dice (may attempt Strength
3 feats): Senses: 5 dice: Stealth: 4 dice: Threaten: 5 dice
Combat
Attack (Sword): 12 dice (Damage 17, minimum 2)
Combat Movement: 5 dice
Evasion 5, Parry 7
Soak/Hardness: 8/4
Offensive Charms
Chilling Touch (7m; Supplemental; Instant; Withering-only; Essence 1): The war-ghost's blade flickers ethereal for a moment, ignoring up to four points of natural or armored soak.
Size 3, Elite Drill, Might 2, Perfect Morale
Bloodstained Silver Chains
(Red and White Jade Chain Shirt, Artifact 3)
The Bloodstained Silver Chains is a chain shirt that could be considered beautiful, with its shimmering white jade catching the light in a most pleasing manner. It is not considered such, however, as it is, for lack of a better term, marred by splotches of red jade scattered among it, giving it the unsettling appearance of being stained in blood. While it remains a splendid garment, it cannot be called 'beautiful' by traditional standards.
While it is presumably a relic of the First Age, it was first recorded found by an enterprising young Dragonblood on a field of blood and war, where a mighty battle was fought the eve before. Recognising its power, he took it for his own and wore it forever after, until he fell in battle against a rival, who took it for their own. This cycle continued for many years, and by now the shirt is rumoured to curse those who wear it to fall in battle before their time, as its wearers have yet to pass it on peacefully, always succumbing to death in battle or another form of conflict.
Themes: Blood, War, Fear and Conquest
Attunement Bonus: This artifact is passed through hands by right of conquest, and that quintessential property is reflected in the wearer. When an Exalt who is attuned to this slays a non-trivial opponent, their anima flares up a level.
Bloody Tyrant's Regalia
Cost: 1a; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The bearer's anima lights up in a red blaze of terror, a visage of horrid fear taking shape behind her. When her anima is Burning or higher, she may use this charm to supplement an intimidation roll made during battle, converting (her Essence) dice to automatic successes.
Wound the Weakened Heart
Cost: 5m, 1a, 1wp; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Decisive-only, Perilous
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
Bringing the power of those she has slain into her body, the Exalt strikes with terrible surety and clarity, cutting her foe down as efficiently as possible. Feeding upon her foe's fear, provided they have an intimacy towards her relating to awe or terror, she converts [Intimacy Level] of damage dice into successes. Limited to once per scene, unless the blow reduced the non-trivial opponent's health track from full to zero in a single strike.
Glory to the Crimson Banner
Cost: 3m; Mins: Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Brotherhood
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Bloody Tyrant's Regalia
The vicious Essence flowing through this armour knows the tides of battle better than any other, and imbues the Exalt wearing it with the grim understanding of how to best take advantage of their foes' weakness. After slaying a non-trivial enemy, the Exalt can use her momentum against the next foe she lays low, gaining [War] bonus Initiative when they next Crash an enemy. However, her momentum can be turned against her, and if Crashed herself, she immediately loses 2 additional initiative.
Brotherhood: The Exalted's sworn brothers are emboldened by her success, and gain this effect at [War/2], without being affected by the drawback, although they lose the bonus if Crashed.
Exact the Blood Price
Cost: 5m; 3i Mins: Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Perilous, Withering-only
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Wound the Weakened Heart
The Exalt reaps a bloody harvest across the battlefield, and knows how to extract a toll from those who dare face them in battle. After making a successful withering attack on a foe, they can invoke the dread Essence that flows through them, inflicting superficial but painful injuries. Until their foe makes a successful [Resistance + Stamina] check, against Difficulty [(Essence + War)/2], rolled once per round, they act as if they had a wound penalty of -2. Usable once per scene, resetting if the Exalt undergoes Initiative Shift.
March of the Nightmare Conqueror
Cost: 10m, 3a, 1wp; Mins: Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Exact the Blood Price, Glory to the Crimson Banner
The Exalt has mastered the Bloodstained Silver Chains, surpassing all who have come before in its use. By invoking its terrible power, once per season, provided they have participated in a major battle, they can summon the spirits of the fallen as war ghosts, bound to their will.
The War-Ghosts of the Bloody Fields
Essence: 1; Willpower: 5; Join Battle: 10 dice
Magnitude: 11 Motes: 60
Actions: Feats of Strength: 5 dice (may attempt Strength
3 feats): Senses: 5 dice: Stealth: 4 dice: Threaten: 5 dice
Combat
Attack (Sword): 12 dice (Damage 17, minimum 2)
Combat Movement: 5 dice
Evasion 5, Parry 7
Soak/Hardness: 8/4
Offensive Charms
Chilling Touch (7m; Supplemental; Instant; Withering-only; Essence 1): The war-ghost's blade flickers ethereal for a moment, ignoring up to four points of natural or armored soak.
Size 3, Elite Drill, Might 2, Perfect Morale
These powers are cool, but they seem out of theme for a Jade artifact. Feeding on an opponents fear? Amplifying pain? Summoning war ghosts? This is soulsteel armor you didn't want to be dissonant with.
As for the evocations themselves, in Glory to the Crimson Banner you should probably make the timing on the brotherhood effect more explicit. The intent here is that if the sworn brothers are crashed before the user cashes in the bonus init they simply don't get to benefit? As opposed to, say, the user cashes in the bonus initiative and the brother is then crashed, they're not supposed to lose the bonus amount on top of that, right? I just personally like to err on the side of clarity whenever I can. Also, creating ~3 bonus initiative to your entire party may not sound like much, but it's pretty scarily good, and given how restrictive the activation condition on this is, I think you know that, but I'm still not entirely sure this is okay at just 3m. I'm also not sure it isn't okay at that cost, though. It's something you'll want to watch. If it turns out to need adjusting, one thing you might try is to put the cost onto anyone who wants to benefit from the effect (i.e. each sworn brother who wants the init has to pay a willpower, or some motes, or whatever).
Exact the Blood Price could use a note on when the victim makes their resistance roll. On their turn? At the end of the round when mote respiration happens?
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