If the only reason you want a giant gold sword is the statline, then it really is, yes. You don't want Excalibur because it cuts slightly better, you want it because it makes you king and lets you throw giant sword-beams around or whatever.
General Exalted Thread
- Location
- Spain
Man. We discussed this yesterday.
10 dice vs diff 5 is a 57.19% chance; 13 dice is a 79.03% chance. You will hit twice as often.
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See "Unless you want to optimise". Always taking the optimal choice is what falls under optimising, as the name would suggest. Over here in the non-optimal world, we have such things as Nights with Dex 4 and people using heavy weapons.
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The unknowing hero who wields a weapon of legend whose true power he will never understand is a classic. Getting an Artifact weapon and not learning It's Evocations is fine. The Evocations are still there, but you don't ha r to write them.
Me: "Man, I really want a giant golden sword because it'd look cool"
You: "Oh you dirty optimizer you want it because it of the statline, rather than because other thing I think is cool. You should be ashamed"
Are you sure you're not projecting someone else into this argument? I get the feeling you're not actually reading or responding to what I write.
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They are not.
Even if "my Artifact grants me Charmlike-effects" was a fresh idea, Evocations are the mechanical fusion of Form Weapon/Armor mechanics and Martial Arts styles, focused exclusively on one object. In their original incarnation this was even more blunt, where it was an obvious repurposing of the Dev teams continual attempts to give individual MA styles varying levels of power depending on who used them.
Secondly, they double-down on the worst aspects of Artifacts by tying up actual character resources into them, causing whole capabilities of characters to switch off entirely should they ever be disarmed or unarmored (unlike Martial Arts, which simply use subpar Unarmed stats and natural soak). Meaning it only further incentivizes the insane "I sleep in my armor/never sheathe my weapon" character dependence on gear which has been plaguing the gameline since forever.
They exist purely as a means to write niche MA styles without calling them that thing, but mechanically worse in every implementation.
- Location
- Spain
samdamandias
Apprentice Plane Wizard
Why would you ever start play with anything less than Dex 5? There's a difference between making a Chungian engine of destruction and making it so that your character doesn't suck.
- Location
- New York City
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Song, the Dawn from Gloam City Nights, does not have Dex 5 and still splatters most opposition.
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I believe the "different types of exalted get different evocations" thing is still there.
Also, I wonder if it one could do something interesting if they were tied even more to martial arts. I mean, Aaron made a decent "all martial arts act as artifacts" homebrew awhile ago in this thread(and now it's lost in the 1000 plus pages). Maybe if you went that route, and these artifact weapons allowed you to learn a new school, which could then be practiced while wielding other weapons, rather than just the artifact itself. Have the artifact have these powers always on, but if you paid xp you could internalize them or something.
You'd certainly have to competely redo how artifacts are balanced and the implementation of martial arts, but that's basically a given for a lot of this stuff.
@Aaron Peori do you have a link/copy of your martial arts as Artifacts stuff?
If you trust the ST enough, then it can actually work alright. Though it matters a lot on the party, as well as chargen/advancement. Largely, if everything has scaling costs or nothing does(all xp or all bp) then you don't have the issue with 5/0 to 5/3 being innately better than 3/3 to 5/3, and if no one in the party monofocuses on combat or the ST is good then you can have effective combats. Everyone having a base pool of 10 and everyone having a base pool of 6 or 8 isn't really too different. Just means you adjust the enemy dice pools.
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I'm sorry if you got that impression, but I kind of have to ask you the same thing. I said "If someone only wants a sword for its statline." I didn't accuse you of anything. You bemoaned that higher dots artifacts don't have better statlines, after all.
I genuinely can't tell if you're being serious. In case you are, what exactly is your definition of "sucking"?
Nah, if Keris wanted wine, she'd first consider how much wine she wanted and over what time period:
- If she just wanted it now, she'd steal it. She'd roll to see if she could track down someone with enough wine for her needs, and once she'd found the person... well, it's Keris stealing stuff, so it's a simple challenge resolved in one roll unless I want to use it to push more plot at her.
- If she wanted more wine over longer time periods, then things would be more fun. Knowing Keris, her solution to the plan would probably involve using Metagaos jungles to produce giant mutant oversized grapes that get harvested by demons she bound, and then handed over to a merchant prince who she corrupted and now has a mutually beneficial deal where he makes her wine from her grapes and in return he shares in the profits.
- At the same time, she probably winds up accidentally getting Haneyl interested in brewing and wine making as Haneyl has greed (in both food and money) in her domain. Then wine becomes a thing in Keris' soul and the world will have to face up to the disaster that is a drunken Echo.
- I then laugh and call Keris a bad mother.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
See, the only point where I'd personally be interested by Evocation-equivalents would be if it's a weapon whose resident god has grown to the point where it can exert significant influence on the world; incredibly rare things that probably trace their origins to the Shogunate, if not all the way to the First Age itself.
Think Regalia from Noragami* or the Weapons from Soul Eater, except translated through the lens of Exalted metaphysics; it's more having a Terrestrial god Ally who also happens to double as a piece of equipment.
* Mind you, most of this sprung from the vision of this dear girl being the personal weapon of a First Age Solar, who was then passed around between various warlords during the Shogunate and has now become psychotically fixated on finding the holder of its original owner's Exaltation so they can bathe in the blood of Terrestrials together.
Think Regalia from Noragami* or the Weapons from Soul Eater, except translated through the lens of Exalted metaphysics; it's more having a Terrestrial god Ally who also happens to double as a piece of equipment.
* Mind you, most of this sprung from the vision of this dear girl being the personal weapon of a First Age Solar, who was then passed around between various warlords during the Shogunate and has now become psychotically fixated on finding the holder of its original owner's Exaltation so they can bathe in the blood of Terrestrials together.
- Location
- Ottawa
- Location
- New York City
Yeah, I know about that thread. Unfortunately, the version there is apparently not the most up to date one, hence my asking. Perhaps my callout post will get enough notes to make me SV famous so I can solve this problem with my new youtube channel please like and subscribe.
I know it's rough terrain but I'm honestly, sincerely not trying to start any debate, I'm just curious about what people's most positive takeaway is from Lunars: What do you guys individually like about them? Is there any one piece or thing that has been done with them anywhere that clinched a desire to play a Lunar or use one in your game? Could be as simple as a sentence in a book or as complex as a bunch of charms working together to make something happen or any other weird stuff.
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- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, yeah but unlike Keris, Yasalka Red-Hand has a huge crush on his Past Life and is planning to find the Deathlord that his Past Life has become and marry her.
Just like you and Keris, I and Yasalka don't actually need Limit because Yasalka already acts like a decadent God-King with the power to shape reality at his fingertips.
And he'll soon learn the Circle of Sapphire, oh woe befall me what have I done to deserve this?
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"And so Lilith displayed for them a number of First Age battle techniques she had developed, of which they were briefly the only living witnesses."
I've like a lot of stuff from Terrifying Argent Witches. Especially the fluff: I felt it was really interesting, and helped establish what these powerful beings could have been doing. Something that I felt second edition Lunars lacked, at least in a way that felt right.
A) You only responded to a small fragment of my post, ignoring what was the main point(which is why I deleted that sentence).
B) That's not what the post you quoted meant. Notice how I didn't actually say that the only reason I would want an artifact was it was big gold and cool. My point was a counter to your point (if you don't want evocations where's no point for an artifact). You then replied to that, in a manner which only makes sense if you're trying to counter my point. The post in question was pointing out how your response was, therefore, incomprehensible.
I didn't think you were accusing me of something. I thought you were just not reading or responding to what I wrote. Which, you know, your last post kinda confirms.
Also, that's not what I said regarding higher dots. Hell, it even counters you own argument: your point was you get a sword because of the cool stuff it allows you do to. Except my point is that you had to pay more in order to be even able to pay more to get that cool stuff. It also has fuck all relevance to the discussion you actually took part in, as you never responded to the parts of my posts that made that argument.
That's the current project in the queue, now that I've cleared MAKE ALL THE CHARM CARDS from it. And, uh, finished work for the day.
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
No. Why stop there. Go further.
Artifacts with evocations should be spirits. With their own powers. The entire point is that they are the magic of the weapon made manifest. Well, we know what happens when you get a magical Thing in charge of an object. It's called a God1.
So if you want a daiklave with magical powers you should buy Artifact ** (Daiklave) and Ally ** (Spirit of my Daiklave)2. You want a stronger daiklave? Artifact ***** Ally *****
There, now Daiklaves are literally zanpakuto complete with spirits you have to supplicate and understand to unlock their full power.
I have no problem with Artifacts having special powers, by the way. I posted uphtread about how my standard go-to procedure for designing an Artifact is to repurpose an Alchemical Charm. But those are for singular effects built into an artifact.
If I want artifacts that grow and improve over time that is what spirits are for.
Tabletop - General Exalted Thread | Page 487
1: Or a demon if you are using Infernal crafting. Or a ghost if you are using Necrocraft. Or an elemental. Maybe even a Raksha if you use that funky effect they have which turns them into a cursed object.
2: A Essence 2 spirit should be Ally 1, +1 dot for being exceptionally loyal to you/always on hand.
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Yes, but Keris is currently pregnant by her own past life. And wants to put her girlfriend and her girlfriend's past life through couples therapy so she can talk more about art and philosophy with her, and maybe upgrade her Mentor rating with Salina.
(Keris' current Mentors include a Third Circle Demon, a long dead Solar and Adorjan. She wouldn't mind seeing more of the first two.)
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, Yasalka is busy trying to induce Past Life visions so he can attempt to seduce his Past Life.
It's so absurd that it might just work.
He has also considered whether to give or not to give a few villages as a gift to the Deathlady she has become, by murdering a bunch of people and creating Shadowlands.
Yasalka is an asshole.
Maybe I'll start doing Yasalkagame so people can read that besides Kerisgame.
@Leetsepeak , this should be the document you're looking for. (Also updated on the original thread.)
There's probably a few more tweaks I should make - thanks for your comments on Becoming the Swarm! - but that'll at least be better than what was up.
There's probably a few more tweaks I should make - thanks for your comments on Becoming the Swarm! - but that'll at least be better than what was up.
Keris is planning to deliberately lose control to her past life when her daughter is born to give the father visiting rights.
Compassion 4 is a hell of a drug.