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General Exalted Thread

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Omicron said:
I mean, everyone always goes on about how Creation is a merciless setting in which mortal heroes die in the mud while the Chosen go to glory and where is the fairness in that. But if you really want that cynical edge of unfairness, consider that some nameless mortal whom the Empress took in her bed for a year because she found their face beautiful and their political ideas refreshingly cute may have had more impact on the history of Creation and the shape of the world than most individual Celestials RY 0-763 :V
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Nellens was a cool dude who didn't afraid of anything.
 
Omicron said:
I mean, everyone always goes on about how Creation is a merciless setting in which mortal heroes die in the mud while the Chosen go to glory and where is the fairness in that. But if you really want that cynical edge of unfairness, consider that some nameless mortal whom the Empress took in her bed for a year because she found their face beautiful and their political ideas refreshingly cute may have had more impact on the history of Creation and the shape of the world than most individual Celestials RY 0-763 :V
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The fact that this is A Thing, still manages to make me laugh.
 
Nellens is a beautiful boy, please do not disparage him.

EDIT: Unrelated, but man oh man do I feel bad about accidentally referencing cut fluff from the leak on the OPP forums. I didn't want to bring up any bad feelings, and I bought my copy of Exalted 3rd Edition, I just wanted all the lore I could get my hands on, and maybe a few extra QCs.

Is it just verboten to discuss any of the cut stuff that isn't how glad we are that Evocations got cut down and made more individually meaningful?

And what the heck is an Asmani? Are they new with 3rd Edition (Well, they were cut from the core, but they might still be in the setting overall) Is it just another weird thing in Creation, that the green haired kirby guys with long limbs from Majora's Mask had cooler siblings in the corners of Creation who caught a bad case of the Wyld?
 
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Leetsepeak said:
Nellens is a beautiful boy, please do not disparage him.

EDIT: Unrelated, but man oh man do I feel bad about accidentally referencing cut fluff from the leak on the OPP forums. I didn't want to bring up any bad feelings, and I bought my copy of Exalted 3rd Edition, I just wanted all the lore I could get my hands on, and maybe a few extra QCs.

Is it just verboten to discuss any of the cut stuff that isn't how glad we are that Evocations got cut down and made more individually meaningful?

And what the heck is an Asmani? Are they new with 3rd Edition (Well, they were cut from the core, but they might still be in the setting overall) Is it just another weird thing in Creation, that the green haired kirby guys with long limbs from Majora's Mask had cooler siblings in the corners of Creation who caught a bad case of the Wyld?
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Weird thing in(well, outside) Creation, yes.
 
Omicron said:
I mean, everyone always goes on about how Creation is a merciless setting in which mortal heroes die in the mud while the Chosen go to glory and where is the fairness in that. But if you really want that cynical edge of unfairness, consider that some nameless mortal whom the Empress took in her bed for a year because she found their face beautiful and their political ideas refreshingly cute may have had more impact on the history of Creation and the shape of the world than most individual Celestials RY 0-763 :V
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Chejop Kejak: *is still bitter about that*
 
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Leetsepeak said:
how glad we are that Evocations got
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Speak for yourself.
While I understand they were a bit big, I LIKED the leak Evocations. They were organized, progressive. I could understand who to write a Evocation cascade, even if it was a bit of a daunting undertaking. Now it's like "do whatever you feel like, maybe make some charms free because reasons".

What I loved about Evocations was the idea that you could invest XP in an artifact, allowing progression and making it's considerably easier to eyeball up the balance for crazier stuff.
The rewrite burns that to the ground and takes a piss in the ashes.
 
AmineHsu said:
What I loved about Evocations was the idea that you could invest XP in an artifact, allowing progression and making it's considerably easier to eyeball up the balance for crazier stuff.
The rewrite burns that to the ground and takes a piss in the ashes.
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This is because most people don't want to write five Solar Charm trees because his players all have taken Artifact 3.
 
ManusDomine said:
This is because most people don't want to write five Solar Charm trees because his players all have taken Artifact 3.
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Instead, a number of Evocations with varying requirements that come in fragments of a Charm tree that can be mixed freely could be made. Evocations shouldn't be a Charm tree, they should be a Charm set, with different requirements and multiple small trees.

As I outlined in a previous post of mine, I think Evocations should have a few requirements based on the weapon, like what type of weapon it is, what the weapon is made of, how high of an Artifact rating the weapon has, and who is using it.

And to make crafting the Artifact 5 stuff worth it, some sort of organized system for innate item effects relating to Artifact level would probably be best. I think some kind of point-buy for the item effects would be a good way to go.
 
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Honestly, the part that makes me super salty is the "Do some thing, get free charms" cause it betrays the base mechanical principle of evocations that I really liked (invest XP in thing, get more capability out of it).

I can say for absolute certain if I was to run a Ex3 game I would have a house rule of "You pay XP for your Evocations, regardless of what they say".
 
ManusDomine said:
Spirit Charms are a thing.

Spirit Charms should be used for Evocations.
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Some of them, yes. Perhaps have a type of Artifact that can have all Spirit Charms in some category as Evocations. But I'm thinking more in terms of making Evocations in general into a Charmset that has each one have requirements to define certain weapons as having certain Evocations available.

Requirement types being the type of weapon, what the weapon is made of, what type of Exalt is using the weapon(Including Caste/Aspect in some cases. Can't let the Dawns get access to the best sniper Evocations, after all.) and what the weapon's Artifact level is, possibly on top of the normal Charm prerequisites. Heck, you could have Martial Arts that take the form of Evocations... Wait, that's a HORRIBLE idea.
 
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ManusDomine said:
Spirit Charms are a thing.

Spirit Charms should be used for Evocations.
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I was eating a delicious slice of red pepper Lomo when I suddenly felt all the flavor drain out of my mouth

I looked down, and saw that my plate was now full of unseasoned tofu

In that moment I knew that someone had suggested "replacing (cool thing) with Spirit Charms."
 
AmineHsu said:
Honestly, the part that makes me super salty is the "Do some thing, get free charms" cause it betrays the base mechanical principle of evocations that I really liked (invest XP in thing, get more capability out of it).

I can say for absolute certain if I was to run a Ex3 game I would have a house rule of "You pay XP for your Evocations, regardless of what they say".
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From what I remember, the big issue people had is that otherwise you can end up paying more for the privilege of being able to pay for cool stuff. Artifacts with evocations generally have the same statline as other artifacts, only differing due to their special abilities. Yet they're rated higher than those other artifacts.
 
Omicron said:
I was eating a delicious slice of red pepper Lomo when I suddenly felt all the flavor drain out of my mouth

I looked down, and saw that my plate was now full of unseasoned tofu

In that moment I knew that someone had suggested "replacing (cool thing) with Spirit Charms."
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Spirit Charms are NOT a valid option for Exalt level play on their own. They should not REPLACE, they should SUPPLEMENT. After all, the greatest goal of any Exalt is to be able to simply declare "I have a Charm for this." and the index of Spirit Charms likely has a few things that are useful.

Cosar said:
From what I remember, the big issue people had is that otherwise you can end up paying more for the privilege of being able to pay for cool stuff. Artifacts with evocations generally have the same statline as other artifacts, only differing due to their special abilities. Yet they're rated higher than those other artifacts.
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One way to solve this is by having a point-buy crafting system, where you have a set number of points for abilities/statline for each level of Artifact. Why can't a Twilight Caste make a better Daiklave than the default? Why can't they make an Artifact 1 item that is just a MM normal item with Evocations? Sure, you can homebrew, but it's better to have a defined system for this.

Two ridiculous things I would like to see homebrewed would be a Warstrider with Evocations and a Martial Art for Warstriders that gets Charms to negate the normal penalties of Warstriders. Also, Soulsteel-plated Hellstrider, for having double the bound, tortured existences! As well as MM fists.
 
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Omicron said:
I was eating a delicious slice of red pepper Lomo when I suddenly felt all the flavor drain out of my mouth

I looked down, and saw that my plate was now full of unseasoned tofu

In that moment I knew that someone had suggested "replacing (cool thing) with Spirit Charms."
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Man, screw you people and your insults to tofu.

Tofu is delicious.

Also, while many spirit charms are not very helpful to players, Stoke the Flames and Dreamscape are amazing, and my sid totally had alles just to access those.
 
Cosar said:
Artifacts with evocations generally have the same statline as other artifacts, only differing due to their special abilities. Yet they're rated higher than those other artifacts.
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Weapon/armour artifacts always have Evocations, and those are the only artifacts with a statline at all. There's no such thing as "Daiklave without evocations" that's cheaper on background dots than a Daiklave with Evocations.
 
Crossposted from the OPP forums:

Hey, you know what's cool about macros? You can swap them from "print normal text" to "print business cards" in about ten minutes, counting the time to learn a couple of new LaTeX packages. Then all that's left is making sure all the text actually fits.

Speaking of which, in honor of OPP's most recent Kickstarter announcement: Charm cards! Or, well, Charm cards for my Solar Charm rewrite (motto: "Okay, fine, we'll revise things to be even more like canon.")

As with the normal document, these include both corebook and MotSE Charms, and any Charm with a reset condition has that condition printed on the back for easy reference - just flip the Charm when you use it, and flip it back when it's ready to go.
 
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Elero said:
Weapon/armour artifacts always have Evocations, and those are the only artifacts with a statline at all. There's no such thing as "Daiklave without evocations" that's cheaper on background dots than a Daiklave with Evocations.
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Hmm. Not sure if that changed during the process or if I was mixing stuff up. Because, while there are 3 dot artifacts with evocations, there are also 4 and 5 dot examples. Including Volcano Cutter, which was part of a shown example. And I'm pretty sure that originally it didn't give you anything at the start before you bought powers.

Plus, even if all artifacts theoretically have evocations, that still means you need to homebrew all of that unless you chose one of the premade ones. Which I seriously doubt is going to happen all of the time.
 
Cosar said:
Hmm. Not sure if that changed during the process or if I was mixing stuff up. Because, while there are 3 dot artifacts with evocations, there are also 4 and 5 dot examples. Including Volcano Cutter, which was part of a shown example. And I'm pretty sure that originally it didn't give you anything at the start before you bought powers.

Plus, even if all artifacts theoretically have evocations, that still means you need to homebrew all of that unless you chose one of the premade ones. Which I seriously doubt is going to happen all of the time.
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All artifact weapons are at least 3 dots, and are all allowed to have evocations. You don't actually have to write any up, though - if you just want a daiklave you can just get a daiklave. In theory the evocations are still "there" to be unlocked in-universe but nothing compels you to actually write them up.

In the leaked version there were guidelines for roughly how many evocations an artifact was allowed to have, based on dot ratings. This was cut and instead dot rating just gives a vague sense of how powerful or flashy the evocations should be.
 
You still pay XP for Evocations. Some of them sometimes don't have you paying it, but others do.

I think the regimented mandated nature of the leak's Evocations seemed like it'd be really draining to design for. Evocations are always sort of draining, but at least without trees like that and tiers it feels like there's more freedom to take it easier when making them.
 
If you really don't like designing evocations or think an artifact without Evocations isn't worth the Dots, how about you simply don't buy any artifacts? Unless you're trying to optimise your character a lot, a single accuracy die more or less is not going to make or break anything. Or make an artifact like Moonlit Huntress, which has only a single Evocation and an attunement bonus.
 
Elero said:
If you really don't like designing evocations or think an artifact without Evocations isn't worth the Dots, how about you simply don't buy any artifacts? Unless you're trying to optimise your character a lot, a single accuracy die more or less is not going to make or break anything. Or make an artifact like Moonlit Huntress, which has only a single Evocation and an attunement bonus.
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This is definitely the way to go for those folks who might be irritated by the thought of having to make full evocations for all artifacts, which you don't have to do!

I usually only make them if I made the artifact specifically for a player to have it. Might make some if I think an idea is so kicking rad and I want an NPC to use it.
 
Elero said:
If you really don't like designing evocations or think an artifact without Evocations isn't worth the Dots, how about you simply don't buy any artifacts? Unless you're trying to optimise your character a lot, a single accuracy die more or less is not going to make or break anything. Or make an artifact like Moonlit Huntress, which has only a single Evocation and an attunement bonus.
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Nobody said anything about not thinking artifacts without evocations aren't worth their dots. In fact, the primary discussion has been closer to the opposite: the point I made originally was that 4 and 5 dot artifact weapons were kinda sad when, before spending more xp on them, they had nothing special going for them. Hence the statement about paying for the privilege of paying more latter on (at least at chargen).
 
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