Jon Chung said:
Anyway. A reality-simulator is not needed or wanted, a system with internal setting consistency is enough to satisfy, and it can't even manage that. Like, for example, do you think writing charms that let you literally kick everyone in the world to death in one action was a good idea on RSB's part, there?

You're always harping on the Creation-Slaying Kick, but you're wrong. There's no way you could see and kick to death everyone in Creation from atop Meru.

The extinction coefficient in completely clear air ensures you can only kick to death instantly everyone you can see within about 298 km.
 
You're always harping on the Creation-Slaying Kick, but you're wrong. There's no way you could see and kick to death everyone in Creation from atop Meru.

The extinction coefficient in completely clear air ensures you can only kick to death instantly everyone you can see within about 298 km.

We could rename it Realm-Slaying Oblivion Kick, but that isn't quite as catchy.
 
You're always harping on the Creation-Slaying Kick, but you're wrong. There's no way you could see and kick to death everyone in Creation from atop Meru.

The extinction coefficient in completely clear air ensures you can only kick to death instantly everyone you can see within about 298 km.
Amusingly, if one goes by the oft-toted 600 miles height for Mont Meru, this means you could only kill things about... A third of the way down its slopes, and nothing on the ground.
 
The reason so many worm quest end centering in Panacea is that the players, unlike everybody in a world apparently full of idiots, will instantly recognize the value of her power and home to her position like a well guided missile.

What makes you think that Panacea would listen to Lisa, of all people? Amy hates villains and considers anyone who uses their power selfishly to be villainous (which is part of the reason why she is so messed up in canon). At best, the players might get her sent to the Birdcage earlier than canon, but I don't think that Amy would ever willingly work with Lisa.

Also, the only idiot is Panacea because she doesn't want to munchkin her nuclear-level power. The people who actually know the full extent of what she can do are probably counting themselves lucky that Amy is using her power for something as innocuous as healing considering she can do anything Bonesaw or Nilbog can do, but better.
 
Having fewer landmines is of course still a good thing. But IME the landmines are not as bad in actual play as on paper, despite a GM who was new to Exalted and had little experience with the game-mechanical side of WW games in general.
Speaking as somebody who's been around since before the Broken-Winged Crane was published, who has read RPG complaint threads, and remembers the wealth of anecdotes from the old White Wolf Boards, I'm going to put this simply: Your experience is aberrant. You got lucky. I am happy you got lucky, but lucky is what you got.
 
Hey, myself and a guy of mine are going to be DM-ing an Exalted/Worm Quest with pre-Coil Lisa as a Night Caste Exalt. Since there are a lot of Worm/Exalt quests and fanfics, I would like to ask you guys: what elements do you think would help it to stand out from the other Exalted/Worm Crossover Quests?

In addition to agreeing with EarthScorpion's advice on theme and what not to do with Amy, I think that completely ignoring canon events is likely going to be impossible. Knowing the theme from the beginning and setting things up for it would put you ahead of the curve.

Players will want to take their shiny new power and fix things, most of these things will involve Brockton Bay and Taylor to some extent. They'll probably try to figure out a way to get involved.

That being said, I think you should figure out how you're handling the big threats of the setting before anything gets written down. There's guaranteed to be a conflict with at least one of them and players will want/expect to come out victorious when it happens.

The biggest would probably be the Endbringers, the Slaughterhouse Nine, Scion, and Contessa.

The first three are obvious threats and the later will be treated as one by a lot of people.

Also, figure out how her power interacts with perfects and Exalted physics.

For Exalted specific advice, anything useful I could say has been said better here: Storybuilding - Writing and Planning Exalted Crossovers
 
Players will want to take their shiny new power and fix things, most of these things will involve Brockton Bay and Taylor to some extent

Who's Taylor?

You can literally not affect the setting at all from your initial starting point by making her never have existed. And if there's another girl who's being bullied in her place - well, she's someone totally different.

(Admittedly, you do stand the risk of the players assuming that she's a Sidereal because she doesn't seem to exist THEREFORE SHE MUST HAVE ARCANE FATE, but then you can just laugh at them when they make decisions based on that stupid metagaming assumption)
 
Alternatively, if you'd rather run a game that doesn't involve fixing Brockton Bay, I'd recommend making some form of big, obvious change to the setting at the outset to signal to the players that You're Not In Kansas Anymore. That Gnawing Worm, Cancer did this very effectively by killing Scion in the second sentence.
 

What?

In addition to agreeing with EarthScorpion's advice on theme and what not to do with Amy, I think that completely ignoring canon events is likely going to be impossible. Knowing the theme from the beginning and setting things up for it would put you ahead of the curve.

Players will want to take their shiny new power and fix things, most of these things will involve Brockton Bay and Taylor to some extent. They'll probably try to figure out a way to get involved.

That being said, I think you should figure out how you're handling the big threats of the setting before anything gets written down. There's guaranteed to be a conflict with at least one of them and players will want/expect to come out victorious when it happens.

The biggest would probably be the Endbringers, the Slaughterhouse Nine, Scion, and Contessa.

The first three are obvious threats and the later will be treated as one by a lot of people.

Also, figure out how her power interacts with perfects and Exalted physics.

For Exalted specific advice, anything useful I could say has been said better here: Storybuilding - Writing and Planning Exalted Crossovers

Well if they want to fix things, that's fine. I will not make it easy, and they will have to make a reason why.

As for her power, me and my friend are working on that right now. I will say that the power will change in nature, and we'll chalk up to the Exaltation correcting the Shard's impurities or something. It might be something like a boost in Investigation rolls or something of the sort.

Thanks for the page. Will take a look at it later.

Who's Taylor?

You can literally not affect the setting at all from your initial starting point by making her never have existed. And if there's another girl who's being bullied in her place - well, she's someone totally different.

(Admittedly, you do stand the risk of the players assuming that she's a Sidereal because she doesn't seem to exist THEREFORE SHE MUST HAVE ARCANE FATE, but then you can just laugh at them when they make decisions based on that stupid metagaming assumption)

Oh no, things will probably be different. Considering the quest starts before the Undersiders even form, Taylor might not even trigger. Butterflies and hurricanes and all that. Hell, stuff from the Exalted side of the Crossover might come over and completely change things. However, I am not one to change canon for the sake of screwing over my players unless I can justify it as resulting from the player's decisions.
 
What?



Well if they want to fix things, that's fine. I will not make it easy, and they will have to make a reason why.

As for her power, me and my friend are working on that right now. I will say that the power will change in nature, and we'll chalk up to the Exaltation correcting the Shard's impurities or something. It might be something like a boost in Investigation rolls or something of the sort.

Thanks for the page. Will take a look at it later.



Oh no, things will probably be different. Considering the quest starts before the Undersiders even form, Taylor might not even trigger. Butterflies and hurricanes and all that. Hell, stuff from the Exalted side of the Crossover might come over and completely change things. However, I am not one to change canon for the sake of screwing over my players unless I can justify it as resulting from the player's decisions.
I'd go with the fan tagline of Worm as they try to fix things, especially if they metagame: it gets worse. Let every action have a reaction and let shit snowball. Make every victory snatched from the jaws of defeat at a heavy cost
 
Oh no, things will probably be different. Considering the quest starts before the Undersiders even form, Taylor might not even trigger. Butterflies and hurricanes and all that. Hell, stuff from the Exalted side of the Crossover might come over and completely change things. However, I am not one to change canon for the sake of screwing over my players unless I can justify it as resulting from the player's decisions.

How is it screwing over players to remove a character who they have no IC idea to believe exists and who they have no IC reason to believe is important?

You're already rewriting the setting to include Exaltations as a thing. What's another small change - especially one which will actually help in immersion by making it entirely clear that the railroad tracks don't exist and they're in a future with no path leading them on their way?

(the same thing much applies to any Exalted game, incidentally - always change things that the player characters have no reason to believe is true from their starting information, as to make it clear that the setting they're exploring is fresh to them and that making assumptions on things your character has no reason to know is dangerous. Too much certainty is stifling.)
 
I'd go with the fan tagline of Worm as they try to fix things, especially if they metagame: it gets worse. Let every action have a reaction and let shit snowball. Make every victory snatched from the jaws of defeat at a heavy cost

I will consider this.

How is it screwing over players to remove a character who they have no IC idea to believe exists and who they have no IC reason to believe is important?

You're already rewriting the setting to include Exaltations as a thing. What's another small change - especially one which will actually help in immersion by making it entirely clear that the railroad tracks don't exist and they're in a future with no path leading them on their way?

(the same thing much applies to any Exalted game, incidentally - always change things that the player characters have no reason to believe is true from their starting information, as to make it clear that the setting they're exploring is fresh to them and that making assumptions on things your character has no reason to know is dangerous. Too much certainty is stifling.)

So in essence, you are saying that I should change the setting just to screw with my players?

That said, I might have a few ideas how the setting in Worm could be different from canon. What if there were other characters who was an Exalt way before Lisa received one?
 
So in essence, you are saying that I should change the setting just to screw with my players?
He's urging you to change the setting so it feels like a fresh story rather than a known quantity. That way, people are more likely to enjoy events as they happen, and less likely to try to metagame a solution. That's not 'screwing with the players.'
 
This is not a system breaking combo. This is a Charm, as written, saying "You may hit everything you can see, twice". In a setting which has a flat world, a setting which has has Awareness Charms, and has a giant mountain in the middle serving as a wonderfully all-encompassing vantage point.

Do you think the existence of this thing, for example, is justified purely because the author said "uh if the setting doesn't hold together, assume it does and make up a justification"? Note how this excuse has infinite applicability, if you take it to the limit.
Get up there + Get this Charm + get the effective-vision-distance-increasing Awareness Charm (does one exist for Sids, BTW?) seems like a combo, even if not the most complicated one. (Lowercase-c combo, not uppercase-C, though, I have to admit.)

I do agree such system elements are undesirable. But if the idea does dawn upon some of the players mid-campaign, Jenna's approach seems to be not that bad. I also don't think the existence of such an element is a justification for metaphorically crucifying an author.

Yes, because you faced nothing meaningfully threatening and did not die despite how terrible your build was and how suboptimal your combat strategy was. Kudos to your GM, because he successfully prevented TPK despite how easy it is to TPK in Exalted 2 for an inexperienced GM. The entire point of this is that he should not have to do that.
Anything meaningfully threatening by definition does run the risk of actually killing at least one of the PCs, usually with a non-negligible probability; so, basically, lethality. To me it seems like a contradiction - this desire to have lethality but not have it at the same time.

It takes one action in a flurry to permanently kill a downed/incapacitated opponent, which you can flurry with a dash for closing distance to your next opponent. It is tactically wise to confirm your kills, so that you do not get surprised by enemies that are playing dead, and you can ensure that an apparently-dead opponent is not dragged off the battlefield after you have left only to be patched back together to fight again next time, except with a bigger grudge and probably more combat charms.

Remember that you are a demonic Anathema who must be exterminated to prevent the world from ending.
Ah, good old EvE-style pod-killing, even in a situation where not spending that flurry on someone more threatening could mean losing the combat.
Ending all incapacitations with deaths is one of the way to ensure your players will never get to enjoy iconic heroic-fantasy moments such as, as one of the writers mentioned being "captured and dropped naked into a gladiator pit to fight some warlord's pet demon" and proceeding to regain freedom one way or another. Or how about looking for other fun options of non-lethal outcomes provided in all sorts of GM advice books or surely encountered almost on any gaming forum in some thread.
"Everyone you fight is a Terminator sent by the Wyld Hunter" is kinda hand-tying for the GM.
 
It occurs to me that I do have a serious complaint about Volivat; they make it clear that the mother still exists ("up to ten fathers... Essence of eleven parents") but it would be neater if their alchemical formula just obviated the mother entirely and their super-human champions just kind of sprang out of... yeah :V
 
It occurs to me that I do have a serious complaint about Volivat; they make it clear that the mother still exists ("up to ten fathers... Essence of eleven parents") but it would be neater if their alchemical formula just obviated the mother entirely and their super-human champions just kind of sprang out of... yeah :V
Oh great. The mpreg city. Exactly what we need. -_-
 
So, I have a question for those more experienced Exalted in Exalted Lore.

A Solar Exalted is chosen based on mortals with a "heroic destiny" as decided by the Loom of Fate, correct? And Sidereal can manipulate Fate correct? So, could a Sidereal theoretically manipulate Fate so a particular person exalts?
 
A Solar Exalted is chosen based on mortals with a "heroic destiny" as decided by the Loom of Fate, correct? And Sidereal can manipulate Fate correct? So, could a Sidereal theoretically manipulate Fate so a particular person exalts?
Destiny has nothing to do with it. What matters is a heroic act or decision. The Exaltation weakens fate's hold over the candidate as soon as it chooses them.

And trying to keep tabs on potential candidates is too hard. There are far too many people who could potentially exalt at any one point in time, from a street kid to a merchant prince. Trying to do so is a fool's errand.
 
So, I have a question for those more experienced Exalted in Exalted Lore.

A Solar Exalted is chosen based on mortals with a "heroic destiny" as decided by the Loom of Fate, correct? And Sidereal can manipulate Fate correct? So, could a Sidereal theoretically manipulate Fate so a particular person exalts?
Not quite accurate. Solars are exalted based on mortals who have some heroic quality, but it's not destiny. No one is fated to get a Solar Exaltation. And while a Sidereal could manipulate things to attempt to give someone a Solar Exaltation, well, there are many, many mortals, and only 150 solar Exaltations. Even if they manipulate the person so they're heroic and fate so that they're put in situations that could cause an Exaltation, the chances of them exalting are minuscule. It'd be like patiently growing a random tree in a forest in order so that the lighting will hit it. Even if if grows and survives, the chances of lightning hitting that specific tree in the forest are tiny.

Sidereals are exalted based on destiny, that happens at birth and doesn't seem to be changeable beyond killing the subject.
 
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