Last but not least: Hey @Shyft, do you plan expanding/doing a Artifact analisys anytime soon? Because i got the idea to try to fix all the various Backgrounds by applying Artifact like penalities and bonuses (like the table in the Oadenol's Codex, and apparently there is something similiar in the 1E book Savant and Sorcerer?), but i better start from understanding which Artifacts are broken or not, and create a scale to them (I was thinking to leave the Sorcery like effects in scale/power from three dots up, but modify the first and second dots a bit more than "It is like essence 1/2 solars charms!").

Uhmm... Well, Artifacts in general are poorly balanced and actually don't have a lot of borgstromancy in their actual powers. Like, Oadenol's basically says 'Find the nearest Solar Charm or Spell of the appropriate circle, crib as needed'.

So I could do an analysis, but I'm not really gearing up for it right now. I'm not even sure where I'd start...

Anyway, Instead I wanted to do something else! You just tagged me at an opportune time!



New Charm Keyword: Procedure

A Procedure is a form of instruction or meaingful information, which can be invoked repeatedly, like a formula, map or blueprint. Charms which grant Procedures are always Training Effects, and if a procedure becomes outdated due to later events, the player is refunded the experience cost.

So long as they are recorded and their information both accurate and relevant, procedures can be taught outside of the effect that creates them. Procedures in and of themselves cannot convey any form of mental influence- though other Charms may imbue the written or spoken word with that power anyway.

AN: You'll wonder why I used the word Procedure, which is shared with 2e's Thaumaturgy. The answer is simple: They both occupy the same general design space of 'Repeatable instruction or action'. I included the XP refund as boilerplate, I admit- I would prefer that it not be necessary, but we really really love our XP. What I mean is, people are conditioned to accept that XP is a fungible resource? It can always be recycled, never consumed. You HAVE to have max XP at all times... so things that COST XP that aren't Permanent are ignored.

Shining Path Proclamation
Cost: 5m
Minimums: Survival 5, Essence 3
Type: Simple (One Hour)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Procedure, Training
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Trackless Region Navigation

With mastery of the wild and attention to detail, the Solar leads others to greatness.

Armed with quality information- defined as a circumstance bonus of two or more dice from local guides, recent experience or good quality charts- the Solar can roll [Intelligence + Survival] to plot a route through the wilderness between two or more points. The difficulty of this roll is 1, and it increases with the treacherousness of the region or the extra advantages the Solar desires- a fast route through a war zone in the middle of winter is no easy feat.

If the Solar used Trackless Region Navigation to traverse any given distance in the current scene, she automatically succeeds on the above roll regardless of difficulty. The result of this roll is a Procedure which describes the route and terrain, which can be drawn as a map or otherwise recorded. As long as this information is accurate, the Solar may activate Trackless Region Navigation to travel that route for 1 mote.

Additionally, with accurate recordings, this procedure can be taught to a character other than the Solar as a Training Effect. This instruction requires one hour and costs 1xp. As long as a character knows and follows the procedure, they or a unit they lead enjoys the benefit of Trackless Region Navigation, using their own traits where appropriate.

The procedure generated by this charm is refunded if the route changes as to require a new roll, or otherwise becomes impassible, such as a mountain range collapsing, or a new river forming".

AN:So what the hell am I up to this time?

I've no idea. I just had this pop into my brain and it feels like a cool thing to do. This is a bit more complicated than I normally like, but at the same time I feel like the Procedure concept is fairly elegant. I wanted to take some of Thaumaturgy's mechanics and pull them out of Occult and into actionable game area.

I also generally don't like the idea of Exalted charms handwaving thaumaturgy itself- no Charm to just say 'I can do all Thaum Ever!', but at the same time, allowing a little crossover is fine.

As far as the Charm itself goes- it's actually quite powerful, and competes for design space with Power-Awarding Prana. In general, giving anyone access to Solar Charms directly is a huge challenge. The thematic place of Path Proclamation is to serve the idea of a legendary field guide or solar woodsman who teaches disciples. I think, Power Awarding Prana suffers from being such an old 2e charm, that other better implementations exist. Also- Glorious Solar Song Lines.

Now, if you want, you could reign in this Charm with any number of extra clauses like 'Only those loyal to the solar get the benefit' or 'commit 1m per procedure in the field, so only trusted types get to use it'.

So anyway- now I have two Solar Charm Babies to think about- Procedure Tech and Intimacy Tech... Why Procedures? Because Solars are Human, and humans TEACH/PLAN/RECORD.

Not to say other splats can't get procedure keyword charms.

Edit: added a description of 'info becoming innacurate'.
 
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Uhmm... Well, Artifacts in general are poorly balanced and actually don't have a lot of borgstromancy in their actual powers. Like, Oadenol's basically says 'Find the nearest Solar Charm or Spell of the appropriate circle, crib as needed'.
Is Savant and Sorcere any better, or it is one of the cases in which the content of the second edition has been copied exactly as it was from the first?

Also, you made me remeber that i wanted to make so that the Exalted were able to empower/modify thaumaturgy with thier themes , and that i have no idea how start. Maybe by looking around for alternative rules for Thaumaturgy?

Edit: also, i wanted more a short analisis about the kind of effects every dot of artifacts is supposed to do, and if the artifacts written do such a thing. Something that can be perfectly done simply by reading and trascribing and understanding the Oadenols Codex and (And maybe Savant and Sorcerer) thus i can do it by myself.
 
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For anyone wondering why you can't just stumble across some First Age documents and immediately grok ancient tech:
Is this about the medium, or the writing system? Because I'm pretty sure that Old Realm uses the same writing system from before the Primordial War. Of course, I've always imagined Old Realm as something like Ithkuil, where it's very information-dense and full of checksums, but at the same time very rigid.

On the other hand, trying to decipher some Riverspeak from the Shogunate is going to be a right pain, because even though Chaucer supposedly wrote in English, his stuff is only barely comprehensible. Riverspeak does not borrow words so much as it follows other languages down a Nexan alleyway, mugs them for their vocabulary, and then goes through their pockets for lose bits of grammar. (Even though Riverspeak probably resembles Tok Pisin more than English)
 
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Is this about the medium, or the writing system? Because I'm pretty sure that Old Realm uses the same writing system from before the Primordial War. Of course, I've always imagined Old Realm as something like Ithkuil, where it's very information-dense and full of checksums, but at the same time very rigid.

On the other hand, trying to decipher some Riverspeak from the Shogunate is going to be a right pain, because even though Chaucer supposedly wrote in English, his stuff is only barely comprehensible. Riverspeak does not borrow words so much as it follows other languages down a Nexan alleyway, mugs them for their vocabulary, and the rifles through their pockets for lose bits of grammer. (Even though Riverspeak probably resembles Tok Pisin more than English)
No, I think the point was that when you find old writing, half the time it's not going to be about ancient tech, but ancient people. You're more likely to find tax reports and complaints than you are to find technical manuals and schematics.
 
Is this about the medium, or the writing system? Because I'm pretty sure that Old Realm uses the same writing system from before the Primordial War. Of course, I've always imagined Old Realm as something like Ithkuil, where it's very information-dense and full of checksums, but at the same time very rigid.

On the other hand, trying to decipher some Riverspeak from the Shogunate is going to be a right pain, because even though Chaucer supposedly wrote in English, his stuff is only barely comprehensible. Riverspeak does not borrow words so much as it follows other languages down a Nexan alleyway, mugs them for their vocabulary, and the rifles through their pockets for lose bits of grammer. (Even though Riverspeak probably resembles Tok Pisin more than English)
This is more about the subject matter: first age documents are just as likely to be random mail or the like, rather than high tech documents. Quite possibly more likely, given that there's significantly more of the former.
 
No, I think the point was that when you find old writing, half the time it's not going to be about ancient tech, but ancient people. You're more likely to find tax reports and complaints than you are to find technical manuals and schematics.

"At last, the tomb of my last incarnation! Said to contain the library of things he valued the most! Inscribed on specially treated plates, they should have lasted the ages. Imagine what secrets they hold!"

*one translation later*

While smashing head against the nearest flat surface: "My last incarnation was a such an ass! Complaint letters! Every complaint letter his dragonblooded subordinates ever sent! Preserved for all eternity!"
 
"At last, the tomb of my last incarnation! Said to contain the library of things he valued the most! Inscribed on specially treated plates, they should have lasted the ages. Imagine what secrets they hold!"

*one translation later*

While smashing head against the nearest flat surface: "My last incarnation was a such an ass! Complaint letters! Every complaint letter his dragonblooded subordinates ever sent! Preserved for all eternity!"

Previous incarnation was Ea-Nasir?
 
This seems too good; I can't imagine a focused sorcerer who wouldn't take this Merit.

I considered making it three dots. But then I thought...a new level of Sorcery gives you another shaping ritual, another spell, better workings, better counterspells, better distortions, permission to buy stronger spells, and maybe access to another archetype, all for 8-10xp. Charging 9xp for another ritual seems like a bit much.
 
I considered making it three dots. But then I thought...a new level of Sorcery gives you another shaping ritual, another spell, better workings, better counterspells, better distortions, permission to buy stronger spells, and maybe access to another archetype, all for 8-10xp. Charging 9xp for another ritual seems like a bit much.
Sure, but that happens twice per character.

I think we're looking at this from two different points - you're looking at the xp value that comes with a new level of sorcery, and I'm looking at the absolute number of opportunities you can have in a single character. By RAW, it's "three rituals, plus others if acquired purely through story means with no given mechanics."

I think it's appropriate to have other means of acquiring shaping rituals, but "pay xp, insert new ritual" sounds like it either shouldn't exist, or be overcosted to reflect that.
 
Getting a whole new circle of sorcery costs a lot more effort than a few xp.

No, you can just buy the charm. There's no RP requirement to go get a new pact or whatever - you can just buy an additional ritual under your archetype.

Also, even if you are picking up a new source lots of them don't really require much RP to justify.

(Unless you were just referring to the Essence requirement in which case ignore me.)
 
I think we're looking at this from two different points - you're looking at the xp value that comes with a new level of sorcery, and I'm looking at the absolute number of opportunities you can have in a single character. By RAW, it's "three rituals, plus others if acquired purely through story means with no given mechanics."

I think it's appropriate to have other means of acquiring shaping rituals, but "pay xp, insert new ritual" sounds like it either shouldn't exist, or be overcosted to reflect that.

Nothing should be overcosted. Letting/making people spend xp to bypass story requirements is bad for mechanical balance and for storytelling.

There should be story requirements for adding another archetype. But if you've got a pact with an Ifrit Lord, then letting you spend 6xp to gain the ability to draw motes from fires doesn't seem much different from letting you spend 8xp to cast Corrupted Words.

Exalted characters (especially sorcerers) already have more options than they can ever buy, so why not add another?
 
Is Savant and Sorcere any better, or it is one of the cases in which the content of the second edition has been copied exactly as it was from the first?

Also, you made me remeber that i wanted to make so that the Exalted were able to empower/modify thaumaturgy with thier themes , and that i have no idea how start. Maybe by looking around for alternative rules for Thaumaturgy?

Edit: also, i wanted more a short analisis about the kind of effects every dot of artifacts is supposed to do, and if the artifacts written do such a thing. Something that can be perfectly done simply by reading and trascribing and understanding the Oadenols Codex and (And maybe Savant and Sorcerer) thus i can do it by myself.

Both Savant and Sorcerer and Oadenol's Codex are useful resources when examining the intent and potential function/balance of Artifacts. In fact, even the first 10-20 or so pages of WotLA are useful, in that they describe the logistical footprint for a lot of the artifacts in question.
 
No, you can just buy the charm. There's no RP requirement to go get a new pact or whatever - you can just buy an additional ritual under your archetype.

Eh, earning a new circle is something that will happen twice, tops. May as well properly roleplay it.

In the particular case of Solar circle sorcery, you are achieving a feat nobody has done in millenia. It should feel properly hard.

Also, this:

(Unless you were just referring to the Essence requirement in which case ignore me.)
 
Sure, but that happens twice per character.

I think we're looking at this from two different points - you're looking at the xp value that comes with a new level of sorcery, and I'm looking at the absolute number of opportunities you can have in a single character. By RAW, it's "three rituals, plus others if acquired purely through story means with no given mechanics."

I think it's appropriate to have other means of acquiring shaping rituals, but "pay xp, insert new ritual" sounds like it either shouldn't exist, or be overcosted to reflect that.
To play devil's advocate here, this means that the precedent for acquiring new shaping rituals is that new, costless shaping rituals are balanced; this seems like a weird angle to take when you're arguing that something that does it for-cost is too powerful.
 
Nothing should be overcosted. Letting/making people spend xp to bypass story requirements is bad for mechanical balance and for storytelling.

There should be story requirements for adding another archetype. But if you've got a pact with an Ifrit Lord, then letting you spend 6xp to gain the ability to draw motes from fires doesn't seem much different from letting you spend 8xp to cast Corrupted Words.

Exalted characters (especially sorcerers) already have more options than they can ever buy, so why not add another?
Oh, okay, I completely misunderstood the point of that Merit. You're adding a cost to taking an additional shaping ritual on top of the story requirements, rather than adding a merit that lets you spend xp to skip the requirements. My objection then is the opposite - if you, in-game, make a pact with an Ifit Lord for sorcerous power, you shouldn't have to pay any xp for the new ritual you're getting out of it.
 
My concern with letting characters get more shaping rituals is that it changes some of the dynamics of sorcery. A Solar sorcerer can (usually) only reliably get to the 25 SM cost of the strongest combat spells in one action by using all three rituals. That requires either blowing 1/scene or rarer resources or arranging for multiple special circumstances to apply.

Buying more rituals may make it a lot easier for sorcerers to just always finish all spells in one action.
 
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Oh, okay, I completely misunderstood the point of that Merit. You're adding a cost to taking an additional shaping ritual on top of the story requirements, rather than adding a merit that lets you spend xp to skip the requirements. My objection then is the opposite - if you, in-game, make a pact with an Ifit Lord for sorcerous power, you shouldn't have to pay any xp for the new ritual you're getting out of it.
You've misunderstood again, I think; @Sanctaphrax is saying adding a new archetype should require story, but adding a new ritual should just be xp. If you've already got your bargain with Mara, say, and can draw power from unrequited love, it should just be xp to learn to draw the souls out of mortals with sex, but if you want to learn to draw power from flame you'd best find yourself an ifrit lord.

My concern with letting characters get more shaping rituals is that it changes some of the dynamics of sorcery. A Solar sorcerer can (usually) only reliably get to the 25 SM cost of the strongest combat spells in one action by using all three rituals. That requires either blowing 1/scene or rarer resources or arranging for multiple special circumstances to apply.

Buying more rituals may make it a lot easier for sorcerers to just always finish all spells in one action.
You're not wrong, really, but it's... kind of the only current option to become a 'better sorcerer' in a way that isn't just woo more spells at the moment.
 
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The way I've always run this sort of thing is that you pay XP to unlock a quest line or event that lets you make the deal in game. If it suddenly jumps up instead because it feels right for the session your future XP is garnished to pay for it. Or the quest can be a free unlock that you get XP during but the person getting the benefit must spend it on the quest objective
 
You've misunderstood again, I think; @Sanctaphrax is saying adding a new archetype should require story, but adding a new ritual should just be xp. If you've already got your bargain with Mara, say, and can draw power from unrequited love, it should just be xp to learn to draw the souls out of mortals with sex, but if you want to learn to draw power from flame you'd best find yourself an ifrit lord.

Yeah, that.

My concern with letting characters get more shaping rituals is that it changes some of the dynamics of sorcery. A Solar sorcerer can (usually) only reliably get to the 25 SM cost of the strongest combat spells in one action by using all three rituals. That requires either blowing 1/scene or rarer resources or arranging for multiple special circumstances to apply.

Buying more rituals may make it a lot easier for sorcerers to just always finish all spells in one action.

That is a worry, but looking at the rituals I don't think they're that powerful. Even for someone with six rituals, fueling a Death Ray still looks like a real task.

I admit I haven't tested this, though.
 
No, I think the point was that when you find old writing, half the time it's not going to be about ancient tech, but ancient people. You're more likely to find tax reports and complaints than you are to find technical manuals and schematics.
This is more about the subject matter: first age documents are just as likely to be random mail or the like, rather than high tech documents. Quite possibly more likely, given that there's significantly more of the former.
As a reminder, if your character is a true scholar rather than a mere overpowered looter they'll be overjoyed to discover ancient tax records and shopping lists. You can learn so many fascinating things about the lives of the inhabitants of that long-lost paradise through those. For the enlightened mind knowledge is it's own reward. Though rediscovering some of their nigh-sorcerous accounting methods might be nice too...
 
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