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Game, Set, [MAFIA]

Do people like pointless polls with their mafia?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • No.

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • I didn't answer this.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • Wynaut?

    Votes: 13 44.8%
  • Total voters
    29
Reader mode
Was rereading a bit and a question popped up. Why Meso?
mesonoxian said:
Yeah. I think I can help a bit. I'm the Cop. Unfortunately, I have a very big drawback, one of the scum each night is immune to my investigation. Night one I tried to visit InterstellarHobo, but I was roleblocked. Last night I visited @Young Pyromancer and got a town result. Of course, there is a 1 in three chance I'll read scum as town and I don't know if that is the same as or in addition to the lawyer.
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What's your reason to avoid telling town you got roleblocked N1? I mean you did inform us in this post. But that's only on D3. So for a whole Day you decided to not tell anyone.
 
Tykan said:
Was rereading a bit and a question popped up. Why Meso?

What's your reason to avoid telling town you got roleblocked N1? I mean you did inform us in this post. But that's only on D3. So for a whole Day you decided to not tell anyone.
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Because I wasn't sure if people with non-informative roles (fool, bulletproof, etc.) would be informed of a roleblock and I didn't want to give away any info that might out me.
 
So most of the suspicion that come to me is because different drawbacks for the roles, am I right? I mean Shadell and tot, assuming tot was a genuine doc, had different rules doesn't necessarily means it was the case for fools. When Pyro mentioned his role drawbacks I immediately assume all fools had the same drawbacks, with both doctors presumably the same. The thought that some roles might have different drawbacks does not even occur to me until Tot mentioned it. Is it fair to assume all duplicate roles have different drawbacks tho? Isn't it possible that only doc had different drawbacks because of their importance whereas fools are too unimportant to be made so? Remember that Pyro made his drawback claim when Ondine was still around. Did Ondine even raise any sudpicion to Pyro? Not at all. It was safe to assume because Ondine's drawback was similar and thus he did not think weirdly of it? Hell, there is also a chance that Tot is also lying about his role's drawback for whatever reason. Not impossible, since the only ones I'm sure are townies right now are Scia and Shadell.

Mafia's abilities being collectively owned is a given, since the GM listed Town' s roles and mafia's abilities. Thus They will still be able to choose which abilities they want to use. The chose to Kill Ondine and Roleblock Scia. The fact that I also appeared innocent that same night means:
1. The 2 Mafia left can do 3 things at night (unlikely)
2. Meso is not actually a cop. Which means he's the 3rd scum (Possible but unlikely)

I know that this is not entirely convincing to everyone else without the benefit of my viewpoint, but I think it is reasonable.
 
Swarmingu said:
Mafia's abilities being collectively owned is a given, since the GM listed Town' s roles and mafia's abilities. Thus They will still be able to choose which abilities they want to use. The chose to Kill Ondine and Roleblock Scia. The fact that I also appeared innocent that same night means:
1. The 2 Mafia left can do 3 things at night (unlikely)
2. Meso is not actually a cop. Which means he's the 3rd scum (Possible but unlikely)

I know that this is not entirely convincing to everyone else without the benefit of my viewpoint, but I think it is reasonable.
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Umm... are you saying that you only looked innocent because the mafia had a third action?
 
I mean if you were town and I am a Cop, you should appear innocent.
 
Shadell said:
2 mafia, 2 actions, roleblocking Scia whose likely town and killing ondine accounts for both mafia, so they couldn't have lawyered Swarmingu assuming this theory, ergo Swarmingu is innocent or you're not a cop, if the flaw is just mafia being able to lawyer.
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Okay, I see. The way I read it seemed like swarmingu was saying I couldn't be a real Cop because they showed as Town and I was very confuzzled.
 
ondine said:
My drawback is that I can't visit the same person two nights in a row.
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I Suppose this is the simplest manner to debunk a critical piece of Swarmingu's Argument. Young and Ondine's Drawbacks are completely different. As Fools They'd have no reason to lie about the drawback. And The Doc role drawbacks only help to prove that people have different drawbacks even in the same role.

The only way it could possibly work is if Nictis expected for Scum To Claim Fool, when they had 3 separate roles they could hide behind, and only one of them needed to claim fool. Seriously why did 2 scum hide behind fool?

Thus Young, Swarm, and Tykan all look equally suspicious since at least one of you is mafia, and it just so happens that everyone outside of mafia looks pretty towny as well. Especially in comparison to what Those that are fools did.

However even if the Lawyer didn't act on it, Meso's drawback unless he directly tells me that the lawyer and his drawback aren't the same thing. Even though there are roleblockers for Doctors and they have drawbacks as well. Meso has a 33% of failure, no matter the occasion.

That said of all non-fools. Meso is the person that's the most suspicious in my eyes.

Pretty Much Confirmed Town in my eyes something has to have gone really weird for them to be scum.
Totadileplayz
Shadell
Scia

While possible I doubt they're actually scum
mesonoxian

The Fools
Young Pyromancer
Swarmingu
Tykan

This only greatly increases my doubts on the fools as scum of course.
 
It could be Onedine lied as a reaction test, though they probably would have said something.
Part of me thinks one of @Swarmingu @Tykan is a bodyguard, and that's why Zaealix claimed Bulletproof. It's possible one of us fools are lying about their role to hide from the mafia, and feel like it's too late to claim at this point. That's the only reason I can see Zaealix claiming like they did.
 
mesonoxian said:
Oh @Shadell what was the flavor of your roleblock?

(My phone tried to autocompleye that to "flavor of love". What the hell, phone?)
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Reading back through, I have mixed feelings on this post from Meso. I was blocked N2, and Meso asked on the flavor, because Meso would be able to verify they were blocked N1. OTOH, it's not a question that makes a ton of sense. Scum would know the flavor of their own roleblock, town wouldn't lie about it.

This is either a pretty deep bluff from scum, given that they wouldn't know they weren't watched that night at the time, or a pretty solid bit of towncred to Meso. Thoughts?
 
I have no way to know if that's sensible or not. I've never experienced anything even remotely similarly as far as I can recall. However, It's at least a bit sensible? If so it increases the townyness of Meso even further, but still makes him the most likely to be scum of the remaining 4.

The simple answer because Scum might have been trying to spread doubt or simply be curious to what the town side saw from the roleblock. It's not impossible for scum to ask such a question, it's just not very likely to be pushing a specific agenda particularly strongly.

However, Town Meso might have asked to see if You Shadell had a similar roleblock happening to him. As such it's a sensible play there.

That's really the bar That it's at. Even with more evidence going my way toward's Meso's Towniness he's still in my eyes the most suspect of the nonfools. Simply because everyone that's not a fool have pretty hard reasons for me to believe they're town.

We have Scia who's Literally outed and killed scum.

We Have Shadell brazenly asking for a doctor to counterclaim their role on Ondine. And no one did it, ever.

Then We have me Who I literally see my rolecard. I know I'm town. Unless there is some serious mess happening I know I'm not scum.

That is startling to think about honestly. It's at that kind of bar. It's actually impressive to think about even when I've talked about it earlier, but when I realized that new possible evidence can't really budge how much of a town bar I have for everyone. That's impressive all on it's own. It makes me even more confident the scum are in the fools. This kind of thing actually made me try to reexamine literally all of the town, and even looking back on it. I can't find reasons to doubt anyone. However Just because I can't find reasons for me personally doesn't mean That people can't find evidence against me. I accept that. You wouldn't be the game well if you didn't suspect everyone, and the Fact I can't really suspect half the group is great and terrible all on the same side. If I'm placing my trust erroneously that would be a horrible misplay, however I can't find a way for scum to have sneaked into it without seriously harming themselves.

However Young Pyromancer did say something that might make sense. There might actually be a bodyguard which if a mafia said they were a bodyguard would have caused problems for them. Ultimately though that doesn't change my mind. Even if there were a bodyguard and 2 scum in the lot that wouldn't make me doubt them any less just because there's a power role among them. It however does explain a possible misplay. The only problem with that is revealing they're a bodyguard or not wouldn't change anything or at least I highly doubt it in the current game.
 
Well we know at least one scum is claiming to be a fool, hell perhaps even both of them. It might be somewhere between 33%-66% to get scum by lynching one of them so we need to do that first, right?

Also I did think that it was possible that one fool was an innocent townie who lied for whatever reason, though since we already got this far I don't think it's matter much. Even if they admit none of us would believe them anyway.
 
Young Pyromancer said:
It could be Onedine lied as a reaction test, though they probably would have said something.
Part of me thinks one of @Swarmingu @Tykan is a bodyguard, and that's why Zaealix claimed Bulletproof. It's possible one of us fools are lying about their role to hide from the mafia, and feel like it's too late to claim at this point. That's the only reason I can see Zaealix claiming like they did.
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I can at least tell you I'm not the bodyguard.

OK, let's talk about my perspective again for a second.

I know I'm town.
Shadell is town and scum!Scia had no reason to out her own teammate when she could have killed me. So she's town as well.
This leaves me with Swarmingu, Pyro, Meso and Tota.
Pyro's ruled out since he has the same drawback as me and stated it first without any hints in thread before his post. So ruling out the possibility of the rolecop reading drawbacks, he's town. (I want to rely less on complex scenarios.)
Swarmingu is scum by PoE.
This leaves me with Meso and Tota as possible suspects. For now I rather suspect Meso for the simple reason that Tota's voting for Swarmingu for now while he could just vote for me instead of his teammate if he were scum.
 
Probably my last argument why I'm not scum is Meta.

Take a look at Scarlet Hand Finale. I waited till D4 to finally come clean as the cop, outing the last two remaining scum in the process.
I have played a single scum game, Morrsley. Alright, I only survived the first day and got NK'ed by the SK but still it was me who advocated to kill TheBiggerFish. Not the two proven, talktative town members Shadell and IH but the third quiet one.
I'm a bit of a cowardly player, with special powers even more. And suddenly I decide to charge into the worst possible target?
I mean it would have been way easier to just go after Meso or Zaealix and dealing with Shadell and Ondine at Night. Either use the NK or the arsonist. Heck, if I were scum and the drawback weren't crippling, I'd abuse the arsonist cause it sounds like lots of fun and might be the most fitting scum role for me ever playstyle-wise.
The other times I was so blatantly full of myself argument-wise were at SW-Mafia, where I was misjudging Meso as scum but hit the rest, Scarlet Hand with role info and Aethereal Concordat when I somewhat went after Meso as well. We should stop meeting this way @mesonoxian. ;)

@Nictis, is it ok to imbed links into my argumentation here or rather not? Was thinking about throwing in the SCF and Morrsley scum chat links.
 
@Shadell I asked about the roleblock flavor was because I didn't yet know if you were town. My investigation didn't have flavor, I just got a result. Roleblocking doesn't return results at all, so I figured scum probably didn't get any feedback, and would be guessing. If you said something completely different, I would have treat that as a null result since Nictis might have varied them for fun. If they had matched I would have seen that as a point in your favor.

That you didn't answer made me really suspicious. It is why I kept doubting you after your interaction with IH and ondine.
 
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