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Game, Set, [MAFIA]

Do people like pointless polls with their mafia?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • No.

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • I didn't answer this.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • Wynaut?

    Votes: 13 44.8%
  • Total voters
    29
Reader mode
Well, The only scenario where a non-fool is if drawbacks can both be similar and different. Yet, every single confirmed drawback of town is different. Thus it's really only up for a debate in my mind for the 3. As Such it's a toss up Between Tykan, Swarmingu, and Youngpyromancer. There's no real reason to doubt anyone that isn't a fool either. Meso slightly? But, Youngpyromancer was the first one to claim the drawback with the other two copying it thus. It's a toss up for me of Swarmingu and Tykan. I did think that Tykan and Swarmingu were likely scum yesterday as well. Not really helping things on either of their fronts.

However, There might be possible set-up on tykan. Which might help give him some cover, As such.
[X] Vote Swarmingu

Unless there is some danging reason to make me doubt the different drawback deal this is what I'm most likely going to keep on. As everyone besides those 3 do look pretty towny for the minute, and I have no reason to doubt a some drawbacks are the same while other drawbacks are different when all evidence currently is pointing towards the latter.
 
Totadileplayz said:
what's a courtesy ping?
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In this case, I intend to vote Tykan, so making sure they're pinged and aware that people are making a serious push at killing them, so they can respond, is good etiquette, and gives them a chance to make the best counterargument they can.

Probably not necessary here, as I quoted them earlier in the post, but it never hurts to reiterate.
 
I think I'll go for Swarmingu as well, since they seem to be playing up the newbie factor, and because of the way they reacted to my claimed drawback when Tykan asked them if there's was the same. They said 'Sure'. That was their entire post.
[X] vote Swarmingu
 
Rereading their backlogs leave me to conclude that either Tykan or Pyro could do it. Both have their own scums and townies feel and I can't be sure about their scumminess solely from their posts. Pyro is mostly defensive when he was accused but relatively ambivalent about scum hunting while Tykan was pretty aggressive on accusing but rarely with substansial reason beyond gut feeling. Hard to choose.

I do recall that Meso cleared Pyro once though. Granted, by Meso's own admission it was unreliable especially since he peeked Pyro when there were still three scums. Thus it was possible that the scums used Lawyer on Pyro. I find it more likely that the scums would use rolecop at such an early stage of the game though. The second point is that Pyro being the last person who claimed fool's drawback so there's that.

[X] Vote Tykan

I also see some people are suspicious of me, which is appropriate I think. My only defense is that the scums did two things last night : Kill Ondine and roleblock Scia. Meso also peeked at me that night and saw me as innocent. If I am a scum that would mean the scums did 3 things : Kill Ondine, Roleblock scia and lawyer me. Which is unlikely since there are only two scums left and I presume one can only act once.
 
Something that I am a bit unsure about in that is that Tykan stod a very resonable chance to be killed before the mod vote and my zealiax reveal on the last day which seems somewhat risky for scum.
In regards to the role I am currently 50/50 if the mafia has a established role with power , or if they all got them because of the wording in the role/ability post.
I am also not sure , if I missed a visitor or not based on that interaction
 
I mean tykan went up at 4 out of 5 votes right before the modvote thanks to a mafia vote
Which might have been a last ditch effort by mafia but considering the edit I am considering that to be a bit unlikely.
And the mafia risking one of them dying because a townie decided to drop the hammer seems a bit risky for me but I am not experienced with how risky mafia wants to play and or sac a member to remove heat for others.
 
OK, I'm still for voting @Swarmingu.
Pyro did claim first and hit exactly my drawback description. The only other possibilities for that would be that the scum rolecop can read drawbacks and was reading either me or Swarmingu on N1 or N2 (doubt) or he made a very good guess (possible but unlikely and risky).

Re double drawbacks:
So I think it's definitely possible here to have the same drawback multiple times. First off we have only two cases at max where the two instances of the same role differ. We sadly miss Lost's drawback so we can't say anything about the Watchers. Additionally we talk about a purely detrimental role with three possible players. First it might not be that easy to come up with a third drawback for that role that keeps a bit of player agenda. Second I don't put it behind Nictis to break with his own habit to make fake claims easier AND stop people using drawbacks to solve the game.

Re my case:
Ok, that's heavily wine, obviously.
The first point is Ondine as the NK target. She claimed fool. Given we had a proven doctor and a proven watcher, killing the fool is stupid. We know scum were capable of roleblocking last Night. So instead of getting rid of a dangerous town role scum decided to kill the fool. Ok, she was a powerful town voice but still. This mostly reeks of framing me as the culprit. Killing her would have been a really stupid move if I were scum.

The second point is the claim. If I were scum, I'd have known there is no bodyguard. It would have been way easier for me to claim bodyguard, toss up a list of possible targets and be fine with it. Going with a role that has probably or proven three claimants already isn't a clever idea. I hope I'd be competent enough to fake the easy claim and don't take a stupid one. (Although my push on Ondine doesn't speak in my favour here ;) )

Third there would have been way better targets than ondine last day. I was publicly doubting her and Shadell from D2 onward. Against the majority opinion. I could have gone for Zaealix, bussing my own teammate. I could have gone for Meso, who isn't doing that much.
I could have gone for one of the newbs (Scia pre-claim, Swarmingu, Pyro, Tota). But I decided to stir up the hornets' nest. That's great scum play, sure.
It is possible, trying to remove the two known town voices. But it fails after the first one flips and immediately gets me killed the next day. Since I was getting some attention, there were definitely better targets.
 
Scia said:
In regards to the role I am currently 50/50 if the mafia has a established role with power , or if they all got them because of the wording in the role/ability post.
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With the role just being plain Mafia, I don't think they have established roles. Given the lack of a clear visible drawback by now, I rather suspect that the same scum can't use a specifc power twice in a row.
 
Swarmingu said:
I also see some people are suspicious of me, which is appropriate I think. My only defense is that the scums did two things last night : Kill Ondine and roleblock Scia. Meso also peeked at me that night and saw me as innocent. If I am a scum that would mean the scums did 3 things : Kill Ondine, Roleblock scia and lawyer me. Which is unlikely since there are only two scums left and I presume one can only act once.
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The thing here is that Meso has claimed shooting blanks from time to time. So even without the lawyer his results are unreliable. Additionally he isn't cleared either and as someone already said (Shadell IIRC?), claiming unreliable cop isn't a bad fake claim. It would always give him a good excuse for not coming up with any scum.

Not really helping me: I suspect him to be the third scum right now. A scum lawyer and an additional chance to shoot blanks seems a tiny bit overkill. This would make the cop even more detrimental than the three fools. At best you have to completely ignore him, at worst he constantly offs town.
 
Tykan said:
The thing here is that Meso has claimed shooting blanks from time to time. So even without the lawyer his results are unreliable. Additionally he isn't cleared either and as someone already said (Shadell IIRC?), claiming unreliable cop isn't a bad fake claim. It would always give him a good excuse for not coming up with any scum.

Not really helping me: I suspect him to be the third scum right now. A scum lawyer and an additional chance to shoot blanks seems a tiny bit overkill. This would make the cop even more detrimental than the three fools. At best you have to completely ignore him, at worst he constantly offs town.
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I have similar feelings about the value of my role. That said, I am still unsure if my drawback is distinct from the scum lawyer function. Since Zaealix flipped "Mafia" rather than a specific power role, and we know they delivered a roleblock, it may be that there is no distinct Lawyer role and the scum get to pick who my power fails on each night. In that case I have a 1/3 chance of failure when 3 scum are alive, 1/2 when 2 scum are alive, and am useless when only one is left. I don't know that for sure, but it seems more reasonable than the alternative, which would leave me a 4/9 chance of an accurate result with 3 scum, 1/4 chance with 2 scum, and still no chance with the third. My role is pretty feeble either way, which is why I was willing to claim.

The idea that I scum and you are not is a bit improbable. Look at the votes yesterday. There was roughly equal suspicion of you and Z. I put my vote on Z, even though we were very close to hammer. I pointed out we were near hammer and suggested people move their votes from you to Z. If I am scum and you are scum, I just bussed Z to keep you in the he. If I am town and you are town, I directed people towards my stronger scum read and away from a townie. If I am town and you are scum I directed people towards my stronger scum read and away from a different scum. If I am scum and you are town, I bussed Z to save a townie.

I'll admit it isn't wholly impossible. Z was playing very scummy and was pretty much outed by Scia, so bussing wouldn't have been the worst idea, but throwing away a mislynch to kill a teammate isn't how I like to play.

Also, if I were Mafia I wouldn't be a Cop. If I am not the Cop, nobody is. If nobody is the Cop, scum know no one is the Cop. If that is so, it makes Cyri's reaction to the Cop Cover idea weird, and it makes my agreeing with him about it really dumb. Two scum vocally supporting the same position over something they know doesn't matter is just asking to be linked. In reality, Cyri had reasons (whether related to scumminess or play philosophy I don't know) and I had Cop reasons to oppose it. (Having been roleblocker N1).
 
mesonoxian said:
The idea that I scum and you are not is a bit improbable. Look at the votes yesterday. There was roughly equal suspicion of you and Z. I put my vote on Z, even though we were very close to hammer. I pointed out we were near hammer and suggested people move their votes from you to Z. If I am scum and you are scum, I just bussed Z to keep you in the he. If I am town and you are town, I directed people towards my stronger scum read and away from a townie. If I am town and you are scum I directed people towards my stronger scum read and away from a different scum. If I am scum and you are town, I bussed Z to save a townie.

I'll admit it isn't wholly impossible. Z was playing very scummy and was pretty much outed by Scia, so bussing wouldn't have been the worst idea, but throwing away a mislynch to kill a teammate isn't how I like to play.
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Just been throwing my reads around for now in case I end up voted.
In case you are scum and I am town:
There's a bit of expectation on vets. If you were to vote on someone that flips town while there's a major claim for someone else to be scum, that would raise a few eyebrows in my guess. Bussing a mate to save a townie, resulting in looking more townie isn't that unusual.
Zaealix was lost, the only way to save him was accusing Scia of being scum. If she had been voted and flipped town, that would have even looked worse the next day.
So, nothing concrete but not really to be ruled out either.


mesonoxian said:
Also, if I were Mafia I wouldn't be a Cop. If I am not the Cop, nobody is. If nobody is the Cop, scum know no one is the Cop. If that is so, it makes Cyri's reaction to the Cop Cover idea weird, and it makes my agreeing with him about it really dumb. Two scum vocally supporting the same position over something they know doesn't matter is just asking to be linked. In reality, Cyri had reasons (whether related to scumminess or play philosophy I don't know) and I had Cop reasons to oppose it. (Having been roleblocker N1).
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I'm pretty sure that was a play philosophy thingy. I don't think of Cyri as someone that would be pulling a quit as a game strategy. That's not the kind of community I got the feeling this here is in the last months.
 
Tykan said:
Just been throwing my reads around for now in case I end up voted.
In case you are scum and I am town:
There's a bit of expectation on vets. If you were to vote on someone that flips town while there's a major claim for someone else to be scum, that would raise a few eyebrows in my guess. Bussing a mate to save a townie, resulting in looking more townie isn't that unusual.
Zaealix was lost, the only way to save him was accusing Scia of being scum. If she had been voted and flipped town, that would have even looked worse the next day.
So, nothing concrete but not really to be ruled out either.



I'm pretty sure that was a play philosophy thingy. I don't think of Cyri as someone that would be pulling a quit as a game strategy. That's not the kind of community I got the feeling this here is in the last months.
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I agree with regards to Cyri. I didn't mean to imply they'd quit as a tactical choice, just that the Cop Cover might have produced frustrations for scum that aren't obvious to town.

But I think the point still stands. If I were scum, siding with Cyri in an argument that couldn't possibly mean anything would be really poor play.

Also, someone has been roleblocked every night. Scia was hit last night. Shadell was blocked night 2. So if I am scum, who was actually roleblocked night 1?
 
Well frankly. Irregardless. There is at least one scum among the 3 fools. If it's possible for duplicate drawbacks to be present, even though all current confirmed town's with the same role have different drawbacks... It's why I'm so skeptical.

Of the other 4 people. The only people it could be from My perspective are Scia, and Mesonoxian. Both are rather unlikely to be scum for one reason or another. This is why it's so hard for me to not think it's not 2 of those 3.
Because the plays those 2 made make no sense to me if they're mafia, and yet that's what people are asking me to believe. That being Said Scia literally outed a scum for no reason as such it's incredibly hard for me to read them as a wolf. And the only real option would have to be Mesonoxian his role is possible to be claimed by mafia, but The only way I could reasonably accept him being scum is if Tykan is scum.

If We look at who voted where yesterday.

There was enough skepticism yesterday for a tykan push to be made. If we look at the people who did vote that way we can easily find. Young, Zaealix, and Ondine on that train. With Tykan off both. This makes me say reliably that it could very easily be Tykan, Young Pyromancer, or Swarmingu. Tykan, and Swarmingu never voted for either of the main pushes. This might actually be a tactic to try and stop either one of them enough votes for them to die that day. They were relatively active at the end there. It would have been reasonable for the town versions of them to vote in self-defense.

Swarmingu quite literally posted after the realization was made, and was given evidence that the bulletproof had no action the same minute they asked about it. Swarmingu did make a post just after the day ended as well. This makes me even more skeptical towards them. Tykan on the other hand's last post was about a good 40 minutes before it.

That's why I'm voting for Swarmingu, and Why I believe the mafia are in the 3 fools. It's simply cross-elimination the only people that I'd call scummy are fools, and there's evidence to support that everyone has a different drawback.

In My Mind Tykan while likely scum doesn't provide as much information as a Swarmingu vote would yield. As I mentioned Earlier Mesonoxian is only possible in my mind if tykan is also scum. While I wouldn't see that in a Swarmingu pair up. However, Swarmingu by themselves does have things I'd consider scummy about their before, making me feel confident about their scummy nature.

But, I have no idea if this analysis is even good or not.
 
mesonoxian said:
I agree with regards to Cyri. I didn't mean to imply they'd quit as a tactical choice, just that the Cop Cover might have produced frustrations for scum that aren't obvious to town.

But I think the point still stands. If I were scum, siding with Cyri in an argument that couldn't possibly mean anything would be really poor play.

Also, someone has been roleblocked every night. Scia was hit last night. Shadell was blocked night 2. So if I am scum, who was actually roleblocked night 1?
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Just speaking about hypotheticals. There would be the possibility of scum not roleblocking anyone N1. There's still the arsonist. Since we haven't seen the whole thing in action yet, it might be silent. Could have been used on QTess, could have been used on another town player.
But you do have a bit of a point.

Totadileplayz said:
Well frankly. Irregardless. There is at least one scum among the 3 fools. If it's possible for duplicate drawbacks to be present, even though all current confirmed town's with the same role have different drawbacks... It's why I'm so skeptical.

Of the other 4 people. The only people it could be from My perspective are Scia, and Mesonoxian. Both are rather unlikely to be scum for one reason or another. This is why it's so hard for me to not think it's not 2 of those 3.
Because the plays those 2 made make no sense to me if they're mafia, and yet that's what people are asking me to believe. That being Said Scia literally outed a scum for no reason as such it's incredibly hard for me to read them as a wolf. And the only real option would have to be Mesonoxian his role is possible to be claimed by mafia, but The only way I could reasonably accept him being scum is if Tykan is scum.

If We look at who voted where yesterday.

There was enough skepticism yesterday for a tykan push to be made. If we look at the people who did vote that way we can easily find. Young, Zaealix, and Ondine on that train. With Tykan off both. This makes me say reliably that it could very easily be Tykan, Young Pyromancer, or Swarmingu. Tykan, and Swarmingu never voted for either of the main pushes. This might actually be a tactic to try and stop either one of them enough votes for them to die that day. They were relatively active at the end there. It would have been reasonable for the town versions of them to vote in self-defense.

Swarmingu quite literally posted after the realization was made, and was given evidence that the bulletproof had no action the same minute they asked about it. Swarmingu did make a post just after the day ended as well. This makes me even more skeptical towards them. Tykan on the other hand's last post was about a good 40 minutes before it.

That's why I'm voting for Swarmingu, and Why I believe the mafia are in the 3 fools. It's simply cross-elimination the only people that I'd call scummy are fools, and there's evidence to support that everyone has a different drawback.

In My Mind Tykan while likely scum doesn't provide as much information as a Swarmingu vote would yield. As I mentioned Earlier Mesonoxian is only possible in my mind if tykan is also scum. While I wouldn't see that in a Swarmingu pair up. However, Swarmingu by themselves does have things I'd consider scummy about their before, making me feel confident about their scummy nature.

But, I have no idea if this analysis is even good or not.
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Don't worry, most of it is fine.
Would add in that Scia is mostly down as town. Bussing Zae without a solid reason is a bit too risky to believable here.

But why are Meso and I linked in your opinion? Anything specific you can point at?
 
Tykan said:
Just speaking about hypotheticals. There would be the possibility of scum not roleblocking anyone N1. There's still the arsonist. Since we haven't seen the whole thing in action yet, it might be silent. Could have been used on QTess, could have been used on another town player.
But you do have a bit of a point.


Don't worry, most of it is fine.
Would add in that Scia is mostly down as town. Bussing Zae without a solid reason is a bit too risky to believable here.

But why are Meso and I linked in your opinion? Anything specific you can point at?
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Simple it's rarely in mafia's interest to vote for their own team when an equally valid bus is available. Meso not only voted for Zaealix a confirmed wolf at this point, but directed people to do so. This only makes sense in my opinion if you tykan are mafia. You are more experienced, and perhaps more useful role-wise as well in the game then Zaealix a relative newcomer to the game.

If I needed to kill one of you two and both of you were my allies, I'd kill Zaealix. However, If You Tykan were town, I could very easily be forgiven for making a mistake in doubt for voting for You due to your suspicion the previous day. Not only that, but Zaealix knew that editing a post was risky but did it anyway. That's a suspicious play right there especially since it didn't say anything damning, but what it didn't say might reveal more. Zaealix likely accepted his death yesterday, and wanted to add some doubt to you being scum.

Thus in My Mind. Not only are you really scummy alone, but the only Way I'd accept Meso for being scum is if you're scum. Thus it's not actually a good idea in my opinion to vote for you today. You don't narrow down suspicion quite as much as Swarmingu does. And frankly Right now I believe both of you are scum.
 
Totadileplayz said:
Not only that, but Zaealix knew that editing a post was risky but did it anyway.
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Ehhh, tbh I'd rather attribute that to a mistake. Post editing is against the rules. Using it strategically goes against the spirit of the game. I'm definitely throwing his edit into the "honest mistake" category and not the "willfull cheating" one. I mean, outside of Mafia, everyone edits their posts. Only here it isn't allowed. It's reasonable to forget this for once and click on pure habit.

The rest of your post irratates me a bit, but that's more of a personal problem I guess.
 
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