Would love to answer that but solving the game via quoting your role pm is a no go. And to be honest you already told everyone the important parts.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is against the rules. No quoting your rolecard.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
You also have a vote on you!
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Follow me for a while down into the magical world called The Past
There might be a thing or two that could change your mind. Actions taking place in The Past are commented by yours' truly.
Disclaimer: Contains heavy amount of sarcasm. Any sarcasm you find that isn't properly duty paid has to be reported to your nearest customs.
D1:
Gets rather weakened by Lost immediately.
But here we have an interesting point. Those three newbs have all set off red falgs, they all raise suspicion. Do we ever hear what's that suspicion in particular? Nope. Easy shading for easy towncred and deflecting.
Explicit cooperating with Shadell. Shaky, I admit. But it's a trend that continues.
The second one is about her pushing three people into the limelight for D1 action and him questioning it.
What's the connection between those two posts beats me.
D2:
Note that she's avoiding to answer
Wall post are a subject of discussion. Some people say they are scummy, some say they aren't. I'm obviously in the latter category. They help to bring across information in a trailable way. While they can be used to drown readers with info and can be used to sell certain narratives, they are the best way to show a player's behaviour along the game. Additionally arguments of such a post CAN be singled out and discussed.
In my experience it's more often than not scum that decide to completely ignore such posts instead of going into detail. They tend to avoid discussion arguements and go with easy deflections.
Note that he's right. Neither Shadell nor Ondine have ever interacted with Cyri's wallpost at all. All we got were cheap deflection and him leaving shortly after.
Mental Note: Hasn't claimed yet.
Never responded to said post. While it's true that Cyri left shortly after, that's still not a good look.
Votintg Meso for ... criticizing her pushing the three people question IIRC.
Starts to throw shade at Meso and me.
Have you ever heard the tale of town Ondine the Wise?
That's somewhat enough for almost a jump.
D3:
B) Anyone haven't heard that Ondine is mech cleared?
Present Day (Boring):
Sooooooo, that's my little narrated recap. I'm sorry I can't give you a tldr and a bit more of a structured argument. I have to run since I'm meeting with a few friends and won't be writing anymore today. So please avoid hammering me till tomorrow? Pretty please?
I'll try to work on the more conclussive narrative tomorrow but this may give the one or other something to think or discuss about for starters.
I'd be especially delighted if Shadell and/or Ondine interact with this or if even someone makes something similiar about me. Give me some of your questions and reactions.
Fake-PS:
There might be a thing or two that could change your mind. Actions taking place in The Past are commented by yours' truly.
Disclaimer: Contains heavy amount of sarcasm. Any sarcasm you find that isn't properly duty paid has to be reported to your nearest customs.
D1:
Starting the game with a bit of scaring town, lowering morale. Fear the allmighty scum. Don't dare to think that scum might have any worthwhile drawbacks.
IH voicing doubt about the analysis. OMGUS vote.
Gets rather weakened by Lost immediately.
That's a curious one. Lost shooting down Shadell's early train and gets side-eyed for that. That's the start on the Lost lynch btw.
Nuff said.
First jump to defend Shadell. Immediately jumping on the one who attacked her.
Inactivity vote. Mind it's only a push at first.
But here we have an interesting point. Those three newbs have all set off red falgs, they all raise suspicion. Do we ever hear what's that suspicion in particular? Nope. Easy shading for easy towncred and deflecting.
Pressure vote #1, pressure vote is good.
Explicit cooperating with Shadell. Shaky, I admit. But it's a trend that continues.
Throwing in the first ondine townread. For basically existing. Wait no, she pointed out a weak as f push. And joing the pressure vote on QTess.
Switching from QTess to Hobo. Not much to see here but I don't want to be blamed of leaving out info. Note: Ondine is terribly quick to jump at someone's throat.
This is mostly the whole case on Meso. A "flip" that's way out of context. The first one is him talking about Shadell's setup spec early on.
The second one is about her pushing three people into the limelight for D1 action and him questioning it.
What's the connection between those two posts beats me.
Switching from IH to Meso, sheeping Shadell.
Back to pressure vote. Still doesn't seem to disturb Shadell.
Was good D1 but isn't anymore D3. Well, that's a change of mind.
D2:
Look at how towny Ondine is.
That's the point where I thought of Cyri scumslipping with the QTess stuff.
Note that she's avoiding to answer
PSA:
Wall post are a subject of discussion. Some people say they are scummy, some say they aren't. I'm obviously in the latter category. They help to bring across information in a trailable way. While they can be used to drown readers with info and can be used to sell certain narratives, they are the best way to show a player's behaviour along the game. Additionally arguments of such a post CAN be singled out and discussed.
In my experience it's more often than not scum that decide to completely ignore such posts instead of going into detail. They tend to avoid discussion arguements and go with easy deflections.
More or less the same I just said in other words. Plus Shadell heavily scumreading Cyri for scumreading Ondine.
Note that he's right. Neither Shadell nor Ondine have ever interacted with Cyri's wallpost at all. All we got were cheap deflection and him leaving shortly after.
Yeah, we have lots of PRs and most of them have drawbacks or hardcounters. Sooo, I rather see the game as a heavy social one.
Mental Note: Hasn't claimed yet.
Never responded to said post. While it's true that Cyri left shortly after, that's still not a good look.
Here we have the claim. Not the role claim but the NK claim. There wasn't a way to post that claim earlier? Like at day start? Only 12 hours and 7 posts later? I mean that's very important information for town. Why did you withhold it?
Checking if they stumbled across the Tracker or a second watcher. (Looks kinda good for Scia)
Doc claim
Votintg Meso for ... criticizing her pushing the three people question IIRC.
Starts to throw shade at Meso and me.
Have you ever heard the tale of town Ondine the Wise?
While it's true IH could have handled the reveal a bit better, here we have Ondine preparing to townclear Shadell.
Yeah, ok, doubting IH is fine, doubting Shadell isn't. What sense does it make as scum to out a doc if you can kill them quietly?
DOUBT
Comment is linked to the bold part. That's a cheap attack, trying to killing Meso for nothing. Guess what, there will be another one later on.
Looks good for Scia part 2.
Swarmingu going with the textbook example of a scum guess.
That's somewhat enough for almost a jump.
Since Meso asked for it earlier, here is Shadell hard-linking herself to Ondine.
Look, inactivity vote the second. Still no comment by Shadell.
D3:
Nice of you if it were true but doubt.
Still for an arbitrary read you never really pushed yourself any further.
Meso's almost always agreeable and nice in game. He mostly gets aggressive when you push him hard as scum. Trust me on this one
Easy deflection.
Exactly next post. Have I ever told you, Shadell and me are mech cleared?
How could I ever get the feeling that you want to make a point about someone being mech cleared.
Scaring everybody so they don't try to do something stupid like testing your claim. Sheep me and kill those evil vets.
Weakened version of above.
I did promise you a second cheap jump on Meso earlier, didn't I? That one is especially cheap since it was already mentioned earlier. And look, it's from a vet and now confirmed town player. That one didn't get any flak... Strange.
Tykan will remember this.
A) How do you want to catch someone in a lie if scum knows which roles are in play and can assume the rest? I mean I've shown with my claim how easy it is to more or less claim anything.
B) Anyone haven't heard that Ondine is mech cleared?
Scare. And keeping the luxurious position of last one to claim for added security.
That's something I can live with. Where's your claim Ondine?
Present Day (Boring):
Sooooooo, that's my little narrated recap. I'm sorry I can't give you a tldr and a bit more of a structured argument. I have to run since I'm meeting with a few friends and won't be writing anymore today. So please avoid hammering me till tomorrow? Pretty please?
I'll try to work on the more conclussive narrative tomorrow but this may give the one or other something to think or discuss about for starters.
I'd be especially delighted if Shadell and/or Ondine interact with this or if even someone makes something similiar about me. Give me some of your questions and reactions.
Fake-PS:
That's what you get if you use too much sarcasm and cynicism...
- Location
- On Earth
So if those 2 are scum who would you think is the 3rd scum?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So, a lot of one liners, mostly looking at things and declaring them suspicious, even though there's actually pretty towny reasons for all of it. This isn't an argument, it's persuasion through pure volume.
The bottom line is this. Ondine is a player who ended D1 with no suspicion, in contrast to me, IH, Meso (mostly fabricated by me at that point), QT, etc. Why on earth would scum have decided to lawyer ondine, then have ondine pretend to have been attacked with zero clue if this worked, while also having me cleared ondine in a way that would be extremely suspicious if I later flipped scum all before IH's claim tied us two together.
Tykan has failed to engage with the implausibility of this point entirely, and yet, the ONLY way this theory holds water is if I specifically lawyered ondine N1, immediately (without knowing who peaked at what) claimed to know ondine was town, ondine decided to lie about being attacked despite the fact that scum not having any attacks on odd nights (per Tykan's theory) would effectively out ondine D4 for sure, and plausibly cost scum the game.
None of this makes sense. Tykan's entire argument here is merely assertions that scum might have had a reason to do these things. Nothing undermines the assertion that they're actually extremely consistent with town-play, or makes the case that they're more likely for scum to have done this. Pulling a few from the start:
Like, this is something that's been discussed in thread a good deal.
1. A good doctor will play a bit shady, because being lower priority on the night-kill than otherwise makes a doc freer to protect others. This did, in fact, work, as I was able to hit the most obviously towny experienced player and cost scum a night-kill.
2. D1 was short and the meme phase wasn't over. Pushing the game to serious discussion via giving something on topic that people can play agianst to start forming opinions is extremely useful for town while memeing costs scum nothing at this point, but advances their cause dramatically, since a wasted D1 can spiral.
Yes, because sheeping is a thing, Lost's agreement was mostly without argument. I don't know how LDJ plays personally, as this was our first game together, but it definitely seemed like something meatier to poke at. Tossing out shallow comment to get discussion going leading to unthinking agreement is sus, just as is shutting down the only line of discussion that's helping the game advance to a more sophisticated state.
Pulling a few later ones to show that this kind of extremely weak argumentation persists throughout:
At first? I swapped off of it pretty quickly and ended the day on IH. What do you mean "at first"?
Because, as stated to exhaustion, I was quietly providing good grounds to validate ondine should I die and get outed as the doctor.
This is, essentailly, the problem with wall posts. THey can be useful, but they're often an easy way to tell whatever story you want to tell. You pull out a bunch of evidence on anyone, come up with a scummy rationale for all of it, and then paint it in those colors without having to actually engage with any of it in its surrounding context or text.
Tykan is taking a large number of things which have all already been discussed and explained in thread and then providing a reason that scum might do them, without acknowledging A: The relative improbability of hte fundamental underlying claim (as the fundamental claim and flow of actions avoids discussion) and B: without acknowledging that these are all things that town-Shadell is more likely to do.
Let's do the same.
Speculating about EoD timeline. Scum's coordination powers allows EoD to be gamed if scum is good and town has inexperienced players, as was likely here.
Clarifying things for newer players is an easy way to score cheap towncred without costing scum anything.
Same as the above. Entirely consistent with scum Tykan trying to score towncred at no real cost.
Now, all of those posts predate the game's start, but they sure look scummy when I post them with no context and make a plausible explanation of why scum-Tykan would have posted that, that's about as strong as most of Tykan's wall-posting.
I don't disagree that wall-posting is useful. Telling a consistent story that better accounts for the facts in context of a lot of posts, or shows repeated shady patterns of behavior that don't have good town explanations is useful. Tykan has accomplished neither here. Rather, Tykan's deflecting from what Tykan admits was a bad play for Town-Tykan to have made (voting to pressure, not seeing a response, leaving hte vote on and leaving the thread for the night)
The bottom line is this. Ondine is a player who ended D1 with no suspicion, in contrast to me, IH, Meso (mostly fabricated by me at that point), QT, etc. Why on earth would scum have decided to lawyer ondine, then have ondine pretend to have been attacked with zero clue if this worked, while also having me cleared ondine in a way that would be extremely suspicious if I later flipped scum all before IH's claim tied us two together.
Tykan has failed to engage with the implausibility of this point entirely, and yet, the ONLY way this theory holds water is if I specifically lawyered ondine N1, immediately (without knowing who peaked at what) claimed to know ondine was town, ondine decided to lie about being attacked despite the fact that scum not having any attacks on odd nights (per Tykan's theory) would effectively out ondine D4 for sure, and plausibly cost scum the game.
None of this makes sense. Tykan's entire argument here is merely assertions that scum might have had a reason to do these things. Nothing undermines the assertion that they're actually extremely consistent with town-play, or makes the case that they're more likely for scum to have done this. Pulling a few from the start:
Like, this is something that's been discussed in thread a good deal.
1. A good doctor will play a bit shady, because being lower priority on the night-kill than otherwise makes a doc freer to protect others. This did, in fact, work, as I was able to hit the most obviously towny experienced player and cost scum a night-kill.
2. D1 was short and the meme phase wasn't over. Pushing the game to serious discussion via giving something on topic that people can play agianst to start forming opinions is extremely useful for town while memeing costs scum nothing at this point, but advances their cause dramatically, since a wasted D1 can spiral.
Yes, because sheeping is a thing, Lost's agreement was mostly without argument. I don't know how LDJ plays personally, as this was our first game together, but it definitely seemed like something meatier to poke at. Tossing out shallow comment to get discussion going leading to unthinking agreement is sus, just as is shutting down the only line of discussion that's helping the game advance to a more sophisticated state.
Pulling a few later ones to show that this kind of extremely weak argumentation persists throughout:
At first? I swapped off of it pretty quickly and ended the day on IH. What do you mean "at first"?
Because, as stated to exhaustion, I was quietly providing good grounds to validate ondine should I die and get outed as the doctor.
This is, essentailly, the problem with wall posts. THey can be useful, but they're often an easy way to tell whatever story you want to tell. You pull out a bunch of evidence on anyone, come up with a scummy rationale for all of it, and then paint it in those colors without having to actually engage with any of it in its surrounding context or text.
Tykan is taking a large number of things which have all already been discussed and explained in thread and then providing a reason that scum might do them, without acknowledging A: The relative improbability of hte fundamental underlying claim (as the fundamental claim and flow of actions avoids discussion) and B: without acknowledging that these are all things that town-Shadell is more likely to do.
Let's do the same.
Speculating about EoD timeline. Scum's coordination powers allows EoD to be gamed if scum is good and town has inexperienced players, as was likely here.
Clarifying things for newer players is an easy way to score cheap towncred without costing scum anything.
Same as the above. Entirely consistent with scum Tykan trying to score towncred at no real cost.
Now, all of those posts predate the game's start, but they sure look scummy when I post them with no context and make a plausible explanation of why scum-Tykan would have posted that, that's about as strong as most of Tykan's wall-posting.
I don't disagree that wall-posting is useful. Telling a consistent story that better accounts for the facts in context of a lot of posts, or shows repeated shady patterns of behavior that don't have good town explanations is useful. Tykan has accomplished neither here. Rather, Tykan's deflecting from what Tykan admits was a bad play for Town-Tykan to have made (voting to pressure, not seeing a response, leaving hte vote on and leaving the thread for the night)
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Tykan has made a strong argument, but I still think @Shadell and @ondine are probably town. It isn't by any stretch clenched, but I think it is more likely than not. I will say if Shadell is town, we almost certainly have a second Doctor, which is really good news.
Tykan, if Shadell and ondine were town, who would be your next strongest suspects?
Tykan, if Shadell and ondine were town, who would be your next strongest suspects?
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
ondine
Pretty Princess of the Shadow Cabal
- Location
- A helluva town
- Pronouns
- She/her/hers
[x] vote Tykan
What a hilariously convoluted attempt at putting Shadell and I back in the PoE. I mean I guess you gotta cause we are getting down to ~5
And you know why I didn't claim before? For just this moment.
You aren't the third fool.
I am.
So who are your teammates?
What a hilariously convoluted attempt at putting Shadell and I back in the PoE. I mean I guess you gotta cause we are getting down to ~5
And you know why I didn't claim before? For just this moment.
You aren't the third fool.
I am.
So who are your teammates?
Short break so I can chime in.
Why does he remember this? Cause here we have Ondine asking Pyro for his drawback which he already stated. Thanks for the fake claim.
And that's all I can say for now, sorry.
- Location
- On Earth
Did everyone who was going to share their role share their role? Probably
Did everyone currently alive share their role? No.
ondine
Pretty Princess of the Shadow Cabal
- Location
- A helluva town
- Pronouns
- She/her/hers
Lol.
I asked him for his drawback because the way he phrased it was strange and it wasn't clear that he was saying that was the drawback and I wondered if he actually had that rolecard.
My drawback is that I can't visit the same person two nights in a row.
- Location
- Indonesia
- Pronouns
- We/Our
Just my two cents, I think Shadell and Ondine are genuine townies. It is unlikely that the scums are willing to put a long con like this since it's too risky. They would probably pretending to not know each other rather than immediately starting a block.
Dunno about the others, though Tykan quotibg everyone and declaring thek to be "suspicious" is odd.
Dunno about the others, though Tykan quotibg everyone and declaring thek to be "suspicious" is odd.
- Location
- On Earth
That's a bodyguard or doctor neither of which you are seeing as how you should have the role name for your role on the pm if you were actually the bodyguard.
The bulletproof's ability is not being able to be nk'd normally once.
- Location
- Indonesia
- Pronouns
- We/Our
In another game I played bulletproof duty is protecting someone. They are capable of surviving one attack and will know who is attacking them.
- Location
- On Earth
