Game, Set, [MAFIA]

Do people like pointless polls with their mafia?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 24.1%
  • No.

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • I didn't answer this.

    Votes: 7 24.1%
  • Wynaut?

    Votes: 13 44.8%

  • Total voters
    29
[X] Vote QTesseract

Day 2 of non-voting/non-participation is pretty bad, and the End of Day 1 survival tiebreaker is not a good look.

Will post more thoughts on outside suspicion.
 
Just woken up to see less than half an hour remaining. Rereading the backlog I STILL don't see any obvious tells, or maybe I just missed them. I think QT is the most suspicious by account of their silence, though that is not a sure thing.

[X] Vote QTesseract
 
Day 2 Has Ended.
The crowd grows restless as time goes on, with the sole exception of one person. QTesseract lets out a loud snore while people are arguing over who is the most suspect, and it is quickly decided that the only reason someone wouldn't be trying to catch the Mafia... Is if they were Mafia.

@QTesseract was the Town Vigilante.

Night two begins now, please submit your night actions to me in PM by . If I receive all night actions before the night is over I might start Day 3 early.

QTesseract has one final post of no game value available.

EDIT: One final thing. If people want the nights to remain 24 hours instead of 48 feel free to let me know in PM. If it's unanimous I'll switch it over.
 
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Interesting choice on the scums' part.

Shadell is still ambiguous, but ondine is almost certainly town.
 
It makes sense to kill one of those 3 since it's a lock town for the most part. With that being said. We really need to kill scum today.
 
Well since we're talking about what happened I didn't get any visitors myself either...Doesn't surprise me, given I didn't really pressure anyone...
Though I gotta say, between my first guess Interstellar Hobo proving to be the Town Tracker and the town vote being the Vigilante...I'll have to think over the arguements before I can say anything useful.
 
Well since we're talking about what happened I didn't get any visitors myself either...Doesn't surprise me, given I didn't really pressure anyone...
Though I gotta say, between my first guess Interstellar Hobo proving to be the Town Tracker and the town vote being the Vigilante...I'll have to think over the arguements before I can say anything useful.
You could only be sure no one visited you if you were a watcher and watched yourself.
 
Maybe anyone is lucky enough to take a peek at a scum last night?
 
[x] Vote Mesonoxian

Still feeling pretty good on this one.
Eh, Meso's been a devil's advocate a bit, but I don't think that's necessarily suspicious.
Hoping we can get back a watcher report on Zae. You shouldn't report if they didn't target Shadell/IH though, and even then, they could have been a cop/doc. So I dunno. Maybe you shouldn't. (maybe you don't even exist.) Regardless, if you exist, exercise your best judgement on whether to report your results or not.
 
Any reason for that? I don't mind being suspected, but it would be nice to have something to respond to.

Recency bias, tbh.

Rather, scum is targeting kills here in a way that speaks not only familiarity with the game, but familiarity with the players. This makes it likely (beyond any rerolling meta-theorizing) that scum isn't playing with all newbies. Someone's calling the shot from a place of a good deal of experience with the cast. IH and ondine were both very obvious marks (I was between IH and Tykan on my protect last night for just this reason) based mostly on past experience. Hitting IH N2 is a bit less out there, as they had outed themselves as a fairly dangerous role (while also making their death confirm ondine almost entirely and me partially, making it a little suboptimal), but hitting ondine D1 as a very towny active voice whose also a good player has a very 'textbook' feel to it, which makes me suspect at least one player with experience on SV helping scum decide.

So, let's temporarily cut out the new players, as well as the dead vets. That leaves 5 players:

  1. Shadell
  2. ondine
  3. Cyricubed (only D1, but sharing info would leave scum with pretty clear targeting instructions).
  4. Tykan
  5. mesonoxian
Now, I know ondine is town because ondine was attacked. I know I'm town because I can see my PM. Cyri's ragequit is inconsistent with Cyri being scum, since scum wouldn't really have any cause to get angry at being suspected for pushing against pro-town strategies, though it's not impossible as a matter of principle.

Ergo, if we assume that at least one more experienced player from SV is scum, which I think tracks with the public actions we've seen from scum, it's very likely that at least one of Tykan and Meso is scum. Both have, I think, made a number of towny gestures, however, let's look between them.

Tykan has 20 posts overall, and Meso 37. This is pretty consistent with my experience of both players, in the context of a game missing the kind of player that drives a ton of churn.

I think that the best scum tell is often a lack of commitment. No matter how you try to fake it or work through the process of scum-hunting, you already know the actual answer, Meso flip-flopped a fair bit on D1 as @ondine caught, and, while Meso's generally felt towny in action, a lot of these are the kind of town commitments that really have no consequence, sharing things everyone should have already caught. Tykan made a pretty aggressive push against Cyri earlier on D2. OTOH, we know this is pretty far off from the truth, as that read hinged on QT being scum, and QT is confirmed town.

Meso, meanwhile, has mostly played the mechanics, which is traditionally fairly safe for scum to do, without jumping into a strong read. This isn't necessarily bad for town to do, but it often makes it easy to slip in some scummy information while also requiring relatively little commitment to generate content that looks pro-town. Starting a push against a player that turns out to be scum is, at least, a significant sacrifice for scum to make, but the mechanical information is public (Yes, I used it to start D1, but that was to give something with some edge to break out of meme-mode, and I was also aiming to look slightly shady to direct the night-kill in a predictable way). The wine around calling attention to the idea that I might have been lawyered last night strikes me as a bit suspect as well, plausibly serving to set up vindication for Meso if I was actually lawyered and voted today.

Ultimately though, I have a fair bit of gutread on both being scummy, and I think those two are a good place to start the day.
 
Ultimately though, I have a fair bit of gutread on both being scummy, and I think those two are a good place to start the day.
I mean, Cyri could have had to quit for RL reasons and faked up an excuse to get his replacement cleared. It's unlikely, but possible. Meso's been a little shady, but a lot of that is pessimism, like I said. I could buy them being village here. Tykan, on the other hand, has been pretty neutral. @Tykan, what's your read on Meso?
 
Recency bias, tbh.

Rather, scum is targeting kills here in a way that speaks not only familiarity with the game, but familiarity with the players. This makes it likely (beyond any rerolling meta-theorizing) that scum isn't playing with all newbies. Someone's calling the shot from a place of a good deal of experience with the cast. IH and ondine were both very obvious marks (I was between IH and Tykan on my protect last night for just this reason) based mostly on past experience. Hitting IH N2 is a bit less out there, as they had outed themselves as a fairly dangerous role (while also making their death confirm ondine almost entirely and me partially, making it a little suboptimal), but hitting ondine D1 as a very towny active voice whose also a good player has a very 'textbook' feel to it, which makes me suspect at least one player with experience on SV helping scum decide.

So, let's temporarily cut out the new players, as well as the dead vets. That leaves 5 players:

  1. Shadell
  2. ondine
  3. Cyricubed (only D1, but sharing info would leave scum with pretty clear targeting instructions).
  4. Tykan
  5. mesonoxian
Now, I know ondine is town because ondine was attacked. I know I'm town because I can see my PM. Cyri's ragequit is inconsistent with Cyri being scum, since scum wouldn't really have any cause to get angry at being suspected for pushing against pro-town strategies, though it's not impossible as a matter of principle.

Ergo, if we assume that at least one more experienced player from SV is scum, which I think tracks with the public actions we've seen from scum, it's very likely that at least one of Tykan and Meso is scum. Both have, I think, made a number of towny gestures, however, let's look between them.

Tykan has 20 posts overall, and Meso 37. This is pretty consistent with my experience of both players, in the context of a game missing the kind of player that drives a ton of churn.

I think that the best scum tell is often a lack of commitment. No matter how you try to fake it or work through the process of scum-hunting, you already know the actual answer, Meso flip-flopped a fair bit on D1 as @ondine caught, and, while Meso's generally felt towny in action, a lot of these are the kind of town commitments that really have no consequence, sharing things everyone should have already caught. Tykan made a pretty aggressive push against Cyri earlier on D2. OTOH, we know this is pretty far off from the truth, as that read hinged on QT being scum, and QT is confirmed town.

Meso, meanwhile, has mostly played the mechanics, which is traditionally fairly safe for scum to do, without jumping into a strong read. This isn't necessarily bad for town to do, but it often makes it easy to slip in some scummy information while also requiring relatively little commitment to generate content that looks pro-town. Starting a push against a player that turns out to be scum is, at least, a significant sacrifice for scum to make, but the mechanical information is public (Yes, I used it to start D1, but that was to give something with some edge to break out of meme-mode, and I was also aiming to look slightly shady to direct the night-kill in a predictable way). The wine around calling attention to the idea that I might have been lawyered last night strikes me as a bit suspect as well, plausibly serving to set up vindication for Meso if I was actually lawyered and voted today.

Ultimately though, I have a fair bit of gutread on both being scummy, and I think those two are a good place to start the day.
Fair enough. I'll admit to flipping on ondine. I'm just not getting many solid reads, and I went back and forth on Day 1. Honestly, I voted for LDJ because my other options were you and IH. I decided that of the lot of you, LDJ was the most suspect and had claimed a low utility role and I felt like you were both more likely to be town.

I disagree with the idea that it would benefit scum!me to have suggested the idea of you getting lawyered. The whole point of that warning was to suggest to Schrodinger's Cop that they not reveal a scum read on you if they got one. Because (assuming your town) either we'd have revealed who was the Cop for nothing or we'd have lynched the Doctor and revealed the Cop.

I do tend to play the mechanics, because I find myself second guessing a lot of my reads. I am also trying to avoid giving too much information to scum, so some things I think I have worked out are best not shared. If the Cop listened to me then nothing happens. If the Cop ignored me and announced a scum result on you, I'd be arguing they were probably fed a false result. There is no version of events where it makes sense for me to both warn of that possibility and try to set it up. If I were scum and knew they weren't going to Lawyer you, saying that might have beneficial to build town cred, but it is also useful for town me to avoid letting the Doc and the Cop die.

I disagree that scum wouldn't be upset over arguments about strategy. I have seen scum players get very up in arms over just those sorts of arguments. I don't think it is really indicative either way.

I was rollblocked, attempted to protect Tykan.
Did it take you long to climb out?
 
I don't think Cyri is cleared at all and his ragequit felt more like a petulant, if you're not doing it my way then I won't do it at all. Totally matches with scum especially if he was worried the cop cover thing might save too much info and make the game mech solvey and therefore easier for town. Aka no matter how well mafia plays they might still.be mech cleared.

That said I agree with your assessment of meso. He's also been incredibly agreeable. It's a thing I believe he does as scum--tries to be so chill and agreeable. He also doesn't have to fake up some rage for being suspected when he is suspicious.

I would like to hear from Z first though.

@Zaealix it's your time to shine my man. Come and drop some knowledge on us.
 
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