ondine
Pretty Princess of the Shadow Cabal
- Location
- A helluva town
- Pronouns
- She/her/hers
I love you, meso. You're so chill and always great to play with. I can't help that you're scum and I have to kill you. I'm sorry brah.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I am probably going to be offline almost all of tomorrow. I'd appreciate it if y'all could avoid hammering me till I can get back on tomorrow evening.
I don't want to claim right now when there are just a couple of votes on me, but I know how these things can build quickly.
I don't want to claim right now when there are just a couple of votes on me, but I know how these things can build quickly.
ondine
Pretty Princess of the Shadow Cabal
- Location
- A helluva town
- Pronouns
- She/her/hers
Also it's a 72 hour day so to have ages
- Location
- PA
Muuugh.
TBH it's...Looking at what he was talking about? It feels more like a NOOOOOOO~ a la Vader hearing Leia died.
It's a villianous breakdown.
Which is not fun for me because yanno. I'm in his slot!
ondine
Pretty Princess of the Shadow Cabal
- Location
- A helluva town
- Pronouns
- She/her/hers
This is totally English.
I meant so *you* have ages. But phoneposting for the win.
- Location
- PA
On the flipside, if you're asking me about Meso? He feels basically the same as the Debutante. Where it turned out he was Mafia and playing us all for suckers. I've also had it emphasised to me that the Debutante was a terrible game, to the point that a 'normal' game's D1 can run loner/generate more posts and content.
The conclusion that brings me to is I can't read the man one way or another. It is ALL too easy for me to go 'SCREW MESO! HAMMER THE SNOT OUT OF HIM!' as a result, if not out of paranoia because I can't tell where he's going then out of wanting VENGENCE!!!
Basically, I'd say I'm too biased in his case. And also vaguely the same with you given how massively I railed into you only to discover it was a Townkill. Dag namit, if I hadn't sheeped Meso and voted for him outright that game...Bah.
I don't trust my reads, I'd like to not give an answer but in the interest of doing SOMETHING I'll say I distrust Meso and think he might be scum. Just saying, yet again, I'm biased and likely jumping at shadows there.
The conclusion that brings me to is I can't read the man one way or another. It is ALL too easy for me to go 'SCREW MESO! HAMMER THE SNOT OUT OF HIM!' as a result, if not out of paranoia because I can't tell where he's going then out of wanting VENGENCE!!!
Basically, I'd say I'm too biased in his case. And also vaguely the same with you given how massively I railed into you only to discover it was a Townkill. Dag namit, if I hadn't sheeped Meso and voted for him outright that game...Bah.
I don't trust my reads, I'd like to not give an answer but in the interest of doing SOMETHING I'll say I distrust Meso and think he might be scum. Just saying, yet again, I'm biased and likely jumping at shadows there.
ondine
Pretty Princess of the Shadow Cabal
- Location
- A helluva town
- Pronouns
- She/her/hers
I'm essentially mechanically cleared. So you can stop worrying about me at least. And Shadell as well. So I would try to look in other places.
I'd love to hear from you about your hammer vote @Swarmingu
- Location
- Indonesia
- Pronouns
- We/Our
What is a hammer vote? If what you meant was my late hour vote last day it was because I overslept. I already suspect one of the silent players to be a scum and the voters choice are pretty close to mine since the most voted players are either QT, Scia and me, the least active players. I reread the backlog and conclude that while Scia was somewhat noncommital, QT was outright silent. I think that was as good reason as any to lynch.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
@Scia, what are your thoughts? You've been giving me a bad vibe, as all that grouping stuff was ultimately not that useful and felt really complicated. I've been browsing the mafia wiki that was linked, and it says one of the common tactics for scum is filling up the thread with mostly useless discussion. I don't know whether that's applicable here, but it's enough to make me at least look at you funny.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hammer'll be when more than half of us vote for one person (5 atm). The day automatically ends and that person dies.
Particularly with low players left, it can be easy to hammer accidentally, or for scum to push hammer when it's not relevant, but it can make a pointless day go faster as well (e.g., if someone ended the previous day mechanically confirmed as scum but couldn't be killed, you may want to hammer earlyish to save everyone the time).
Right now, we should try to avoid it almost entirely.
OK, just for starters. If you had to quit for RL matters, you state it. I'm certain no one here would make a scene to that result. Or if they do, repeatedly, they won't play in all that many games anymore.
And him quitting was more a difference in "how the game should be played". I'd say he rather favors the social part of the game and tries to avoid the purely mechanical approach. Like for example citing your role pm.
But tbh, that's all a topic for after the game and not right now.
So, I'm mostly going with Shadell's list of suspects for today but I'd add Zaealix to the list.
That ... is a very good question. I must admit that there weren't any obvious tells yet and I read him as neutral. But I'm going to reread him.
- Location
- PA
Hum...So in the interest of keeping the flow going, since a directionless town is a Town unable to use it's best weapon, the Lynch?
I'd like to note that Scia recently presented what...Seemed to be a probability-based sortation based on early votes and the night-time actions we know about- namely, how Shaddel and Ondine have both verified each other, in that Ondine was targetted, and Shaddel served as the Doctor keeping her alive. For that matter, I believe that thought was triple-confirmed by IH, now-confirmed Town Tracker.
From what I can tell, the current suspicions are on me via Cyri transferrence, and an self-introduction that, according to Ondine was, and I quote:
...There's other things I've noticed on re-reads but the trouble is, information is a two-way street...Rrrgh. Mafia can be a fustrating game at times.
I'd like to note that Scia recently presented what...Seemed to be a probability-based sortation based on early votes and the night-time actions we know about- namely, how Shaddel and Ondine have both verified each other, in that Ondine was targetted, and Shaddel served as the Doctor keeping her alive. For that matter, I believe that thought was triple-confirmed by IH, now-confirmed Town Tracker.
From what I can tell, the current suspicions are on me via Cyri transferrence, and an self-introduction that, according to Ondine was, and I quote:
Now...I'm going to be honest, looking back over the thread, Totadile has been fairly consistantly suspicious of the Shaddel Ondine clear, probably because that story seems like a convienent bullwark to hide behind. Only with IH serving as the third man, and having flipped town due to being night killed well...
...There's other things I've noticed on re-reads but the trouble is, information is a two-way street...Rrrgh. Mafia can be a fustrating game at times.
Well It is my second game, debutante was a bit of a bust , and considering that one of the problems of that was that no one talked I tried to put my thoughts out because that also means people can go and talk about how what I assume is wrong.
That was the tally that we saw at the end there and based on my reading, D1 voting blocks show themself in this way on D2
Green:Confirmed town
YEllow
oting block for a confirmed town member
Pink Different voting block for a confirmed Town member
White nonvotes/ votes d1
QT
meso,Tykan,Ondine,Zaeliax,IH,Swam
Scia:
Total, Young
Meso:
Shadel
Swarm:
Scia
Green:Confirmed town
YEllow
oting block for a confirmed town memberPink Different voting block for a confirmed Town member
White nonvotes/ votes d1
QT
meso,Tykan,Ondine,Zaeliax,IH,Swam
Scia:
Total, Young
Meso:
Shadel
Swarm:
Scia
Last edited:
ondine
Pretty Princess of the Shadow Cabal
- Location
- A helluva town
- Pronouns
- She/her/hers
What are you actually saying here? Are you suspecting Shadell and I who have been mech cleared? You didn't actually have any.. like actual solving here. You just listed events. It's something you see scum doing sometimes because they can't figure out how to "solve" when they know the answer already.
Where has totodile been suspicious of this? Receiptsss please.
[X] vote Zaealix
- Location
- PA
Here you go, notice the bolded.
That would be when...
Incidentally, I've mentioned previously that it's annoying figuring out what to keep to myself and what not? I've misstepped somewhat, I think, in that it became clear that Tota mentioned peeking on QT and not voting for him. My point being that I'm not sure who's suspicious and who's not. I could say Meso quite easily, and I might throw a vote in his direction if I believe we won't be making hammer regardless, but it's one thing to throw a vote when it's clear that person is scum versus not really being sure of who's who and what's what.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm back! Thanks for not trying to kill me while the internet was out. That puts you all ahead of some roommates I've had.
Having reread the thread I am increasingly town reading @Young Pyromancer . Nothing specific, but the totality of their posts all seem perfectly towny and their reasoning and questions seem authentic. For a new player to make that many posts without any detectable scum slips means either this is really impressive novice scum play, more experienced scum are being super attentive to their posting, or they are actually town, and I think the latter is most likely.
@Zaealix is seeming pretty scummy. They have several times characterized Cyri's behavior in ways that make more sense for scum. Most recently here with the Darth Vader comparison. That just seems like a really weird thing to say if you knew Cyri was town.
Okay, gonna eat for a bit. See you in a little.
I don't know that @Shadell is 100% cleared. I strongly suspect they are town, but there is still the possibility that IH saw them attacking you, and someone else healed you. I doubt that is the case, and no one has counterclaimed yet, but it isn't an absolute mechanical clear. I think we should treat Shadell as very nearly cleared, but don't completely rule the possibility of deception out.
Having reread the thread I am increasingly town reading @Young Pyromancer . Nothing specific, but the totality of their posts all seem perfectly towny and their reasoning and questions seem authentic. For a new player to make that many posts without any detectable scum slips means either this is really impressive novice scum play, more experienced scum are being super attentive to their posting, or they are actually town, and I think the latter is most likely.
@Zaealix is seeming pretty scummy. They have several times characterized Cyri's behavior in ways that make more sense for scum. Most recently here with the Darth Vader comparison. That just seems like a really weird thing to say if you knew Cyri was town.
Okay, gonna eat for a bit. See you in a little.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To walk through the reasoning in exhaustive detail.
IH, unless playing some improbable long-con, confirmed that I visited ondine N1.
Ondine claims to have been attacked, and healed. This means that at least 2 people visited ondine that night, a doctor and a mafia.
I've claimed to be a doctor, who healed ondine (and made use of early hints at this in the thread in ways ondine could use to duck suspicion if I died as evidence.)
IH's powere is confirmed. So, we know for a fact that I visited ondine, under the assumption that IH is not dumb, and outing yourself to launch a fake claim like that is really dumb for town.
This leaves
1. Ondine is scum and I am scum playing a long con we worked out in chat.
2. Ondine is town, I am a doctor, healing ondine
3. Ondine is town, I'm scum lying about being a doctor and the actual doctor choose preservation over outing me.
4. maybe QT vigged ondine, who I healed, but this particular interaction of abilities is both implausible and would be unpleasant as an interaction (particularly with QT saying nothing even when voted would be more or less actively sabotaging town at that point).
1 would be dumb. if I die and flip scum, ondine is under heavy scrutiny, if ondine dies, I am scum. It ties us together pointlessly to, maybe, put me up as a suspect unless people buy the specific tell I would have faked that would only really be useful if somehow, someone had happened to track me, which we wouldn't have known when I cleared ondine and ondine claimed to have been attacked before IH posted. In essence, it's a longshot plan with far more obvious downsides to scum than upsides.
For 3, please counterclaim if you're the doctor who healed ondine. This would mean I was scum and scum telling you to out yourself is.. bad, but you'd essentially be trading priority on the vote (in a game where town is loaded with useful roles) for reducing a third of the scum team, and getting the first scum kill on the board. That's really indicative, because suddenly instead of having only intuition, you have a lot of evidence about how people have interacted with Shadell, known scum, which is probably worth a player this far in with no non-town kills. It's a massive gain for town.
So with no counterclaim, 2 should be assumed.
Which brings us back, essentially, to Zaealix, Meso and Tykan as leading suspects for scum. My current guess is both Meso and Tykan are looking iffy.
Note, here Tykan throws Zaealix under the bus with no reasoning.
Meso shortly follows up with a hit on a new player for reading pretty wolfy, but, ultimately, tone is a bad metric, particularly with a new player who A: Doesn't know how people post, and B: whose personal style isn't known.
It's also a low cost read on very public info that can't amount to much. Bad phrasing is more an individual quirk than anything.
IH, unless playing some improbable long-con, confirmed that I visited ondine N1.
Ondine claims to have been attacked, and healed. This means that at least 2 people visited ondine that night, a doctor and a mafia.
I've claimed to be a doctor, who healed ondine (and made use of early hints at this in the thread in ways ondine could use to duck suspicion if I died as evidence.)
IH's powere is confirmed. So, we know for a fact that I visited ondine, under the assumption that IH is not dumb, and outing yourself to launch a fake claim like that is really dumb for town.
This leaves
1. Ondine is scum and I am scum playing a long con we worked out in chat.
2. Ondine is town, I am a doctor, healing ondine
3. Ondine is town, I'm scum lying about being a doctor and the actual doctor choose preservation over outing me.
4. maybe QT vigged ondine, who I healed, but this particular interaction of abilities is both implausible and would be unpleasant as an interaction (particularly with QT saying nothing even when voted would be more or less actively sabotaging town at that point).
1 would be dumb. if I die and flip scum, ondine is under heavy scrutiny, if ondine dies, I am scum. It ties us together pointlessly to, maybe, put me up as a suspect unless people buy the specific tell I would have faked that would only really be useful if somehow, someone had happened to track me, which we wouldn't have known when I cleared ondine and ondine claimed to have been attacked before IH posted. In essence, it's a longshot plan with far more obvious downsides to scum than upsides.
For 3, please counterclaim if you're the doctor who healed ondine. This would mean I was scum and scum telling you to out yourself is.. bad, but you'd essentially be trading priority on the vote (in a game where town is loaded with useful roles) for reducing a third of the scum team, and getting the first scum kill on the board. That's really indicative, because suddenly instead of having only intuition, you have a lot of evidence about how people have interacted with Shadell, known scum, which is probably worth a player this far in with no non-town kills. It's a massive gain for town.
So with no counterclaim, 2 should be assumed.
Which brings us back, essentially, to Zaealix, Meso and Tykan as leading suspects for scum. My current guess is both Meso and Tykan are looking iffy.
Note, here Tykan throws Zaealix under the bus with no reasoning.
Meso shortly follows up with a hit on a new player for reading pretty wolfy, but, ultimately, tone is a bad metric, particularly with a new player who A: Doesn't know how people post, and B: whose personal style isn't known.
It's also a low cost read on very public info that can't amount to much. Bad phrasing is more an individual quirk than anything.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
At this point, if there is another doc who healed ondine, they should probably come forward. Trading one scum for our Doc probably isn't a bad deal at this point. But I don't think there is. I think you are probably town.
Tone is pretty weak, but it is what we have to go on right now. I reread the thread and tried to come up with solid reads and those were the only two that popped out at me.
I'm batting zero right now. I was on both winning lynches and they were both townies., so I am not feeling super confident in any of my reads, but I figure weak reads are better than going entirely silent.
- Location
- Oregon, USA
This, along with your stuff about Meso later in the post, sounds like you're going to vote on meso, but when he flips village you plan to be all 'I told you so'. If we lynch him and he's village, you're my next suspect.
Sorry, didn't do much today and won't be for the next hours. Still I have to "defend" myself before I get hammered overnight.
Me "throwing Zaealix under the bus" was just a reaction to your earlier plan to ignore him cause of Cyri leaving. Since that's NAI, I thought it important to not exclude suspects for the wrong reasons.