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Game of the Year: A Naruto Quest

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It seems reasonable to expect that Kurenai would adapt her exam based on the nature of her students and their social position. The test that she gave in canon could conceivably have been much less mentally damaging and easier to pass given that Kurenai would be more sympathetic to Hinata and would want to avoid the consequences of failing the children of three clan heads.

Even with that said I still think that Hinata could have managed to pass this test. The Genjutsu could very easily have traumatized her but I still think that she would have passed given her demonstrated willingness to continue fighting even when victory seemed impossible and the intense social pressures pushing her to become a ninja.
 
So she saw how our team behaved with each other ans chose to take extreme measures?
 
Knight-Radiant said:
Also, Genin corps are fanon and may not be a thing here.
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oh, they're a thing here. We REALLY don't want to go there according to Ves :p
cheesyme said:
Do you think a modern military would tolerate Tsunade going AWOL?
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You mean the war hero who completely rebuilt Konoha's medical system and left with (we can assume) her sensei's (and leader's) permission?
I don't think it was ever stated she actually left without permission, and we can reasonably assume that happened AFTER the war ended. (Naruto's timeline is such a mess...)
 
[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were told by someone whose approval you once looked for that you make everything actively worse just by existing.

To me this is what his nightmare vision boiled down too.
 
SlyGuy2895 said:
I feel like this test is less about building trust and more about figuring out where we are mentally and part of that involves acknowledging our fears so we can work past them.
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You can do that without making someone experience their worst fears. I'm getting a little agitated with the defense of this torture technique being used on pre-teens, so can we cut the bullshit and just agree that Kurenai is fucked up?

Seriously, I don't see a valid reason to defend this unneeded cruelty. Sorry, but the constant defense has left me with a distaste for it.
 
Or she (Kurenai) could have used something about tracking ,because her canon team is not really predisposed towards genjutsu nor do they later show any special kind of skill at it. We don´t know her test. Unfounded speculation is exactly that, baseless speculation. It is a bad argument.

One point about military discipline: I can easily remeber how hard military discipline was enforced and teached at the academy. Little reminder it was not. It was a typical school atmosphere not even military academy standard.
Remeber how everyone obeyed Danzo, when he was temporary Hokage. Or Team 10 outright saying to Kakashi we want revenge and are going regardless what you say. How about Naruto´s action towards his commanding officers time and time again? Yeah the Naruto manga is a wellspring of military discipline...
 
Slaggedfire said:
You can do that without making someone experience their worst fears. I'm getting a little agitated with the defense of this torture technique being used on pre-teens, so can we cut the bullshit and just agree that Kurenai is fucked up?

Seriously, I don't see a valid reason to defend this unneeded cruelty. Sorry, but the constant defense has left me with a distaste for it.
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Nah. I think it's pretty legit, actually.
 
Current Tally. Vote closes in five hours!
Adhoc vote count started by Vesvius on Nov 26, 2018 at 7:02 PM, finished with 10757 posts and 154 votes.
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Actually, it occurs to me that Kurenai is deliberately trying to make it feel like she's pushing too far. All three of her students are proud, stubborn, and not at all the sort to take what they perceive as an injury lying down. In some ways that's a strength (that same mental willpower is what got them through the second part of the test) but it's also the reason that Daisuke and Mariko are still enemies after seven whole years. The thread freaked when the teams were announced because these kids have a history of holding onto grudges against each other, which seems like a recipe for disaster.

So Kurenai is testing to see if that will really happen. She's deliberately creating a situation where we'll be pissed off at her, where our natural reaction will be to say "Screw you!" and walk away. The test is to see if we can swallow our anger and distrust in order to complete the mission. If we refuse to cooperate, she knows she can't trust us not to let our issues with with our teammates interfere with the mission. If we do as she asks, despite us having very good reason to be angry with her, then she will know that no matter how much Mariko and Kiba end up pissing us off, we'll be able to put those feelings aside for the good of the team.
 
Amperstand said:
So Kurenai is testing to see if that will really happen. She's deliberately creating a situation where we'll be pissed off at her, where our natural reaction will be to say "Screw you!" and walk away. The test is to see if we can swallow our anger and distrust in order to complete the mission. If we refuse to cooperate, she knows she can't trust us not to let our issues with with our teammates interfere with the mission. If we do as she asks, despite us having very good reason to be angry with her, then she will know that no matter how much Mariko and Kiba end up pissing us off, we'll be able to put those feelings aside for the good of the team.
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Teamwork is based on a foundation of trust, and this event promotes distrust. You can't cooperate with a backstabber, and you certainly can't cooperate with someone who attacked you without provocation.

That's just how I see it. This shit already happened so I honestly don't care anymore, but rationalizations like this feel wrong.
 
Mean, Daisuke knew fully well her thing is Genjutsu and that she'll do something to test them. Plus, the one test he knew about was all kinds of manipulative shenanigans- complete with a lesser version of the Genjutsu that Kunerai used.

Honestly, this feels like paying for combat pragmatism lessons and then being All The Rage when your instructor lays you out despite having had plenty of reasons to expect something weird.
Adhoc vote count started by Kkutlord on Nov 26, 2018 at 9:39 PM, finished with 10765 posts and 155 votes.
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Slaggedfire said:
Teamwork is based on a foundation of trust, and this event promotes distrust. You can't cooperate with a backstabber, and you certainly can't cooperate with someone who attacked you without provocation.

That's just how I see it. This shit already happened so I honestly don't care anymore, but rationalizations like this feel wrong.
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Can I ask a question? I'm getting the vibe that you've made your decision about this. I understand that, and it's fair enough- I disagree with your read on the situation, but I can see what you're basing it on and it's a valid take. With that in mind, might it be best for us to just stop arguing about it?
 
cheesyme said:
How much of Konoha or even Naruto in general actually resembles a military organization other than that it's purpose includes combat?
Individuals who casually shit on or ignore entire armies, the equivalent of high ranking officers going AWOL for years with no punishment, casual relationships between the various officers and their soldiers(jonin-gening), nothing resembling boot camp, no real attempt to mold the genin into proper soldiers other than sometimes teaching them.

Konoha and the villages in general resemble tribes and warriors far more than they do soldiers, and I don't recall the sort of discipline/chain of command situations you seem to be thinking of ever showing up in the show.

Do you think a modern military would tolerate Tsunade going AWOL? Do you think a modern military would allow canon team 10s laziness? Do you think a modern military would allow the sort of insubordination that shows up so damn regularly in the show?
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People keep using poor analogy extensions on this, yes.
Konoha is most similar to a feudal elite military unit, Jounin as full Knights, Genin as Squires and Chunin as something of an untested Knight, with the Kage as the Oligarchic Count and the Ninja Clans as the landowning Baron electors for the Kage title

Under such a system, obedience and loyalty serves as gateways to the higher ranks, and they are tested by highly personal means.
Because if your Jounin Sensei thinks you don't qualify for promotion, you won't ever be. So you must pass personal tests THEY think are important, then they'd recommend you to further testing under their peers(which would be the Chunin promotion exam and whatever is used to qualify Jounins after that).

Its not regimented. The Genin graduation test is not that different to recruit hazing rituals.
Keeping in mind again, most teams pass, despite the tests seeming impossible to each team at the time.
Erzherzog_Karl said:
I honestly don´t see pre-chunin-exam Hinata living through such a genjutsu and walking away ok. Please remember Neji talked her into giving up till Naruto had his outburst. She failed in missions again and again , because of lack of confidence. That genjutsu would have fucked her up. This is not canon Kurenai and I highly doubt this was her test or such a fucked up "trust building exercise".
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I'm not really seeing that. Hinata's issue is that her values are set at a 45 degree skew from normal. She doesn't value her personal accomplishments and one of the big reasons why Neji got to her was that she's thinking of Hanabi's well being, as well as herself not being worthy.

When it comes to the welfare of others she's always been steadfast...which is going to reflect in a Greatest Fear test if it was identical.
Willing to bet her Greatest Fear is failing others when they need her.
Akritedes said:
Don't be a lazy schmuck. If you're going to disagree with someone, at least unpack it and explain why. "Nah fam, you wrong" is not an argument, it's a dismissal.
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Actually its been explained quite a few times. The personal value/perspective mismatch is such that neither of them can really acknowledge the other's points as valid, so there isn't much point to continuing.

Its like one side is discussing the flavor of MREs being inhumane and the other is discussing the logistic advantages of MREs.
Amusing to watch once....but no more
 
[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were attacked by your childhood protector who tried to kill you before you entered the Academy, and this time he was going to finish the job.
 
This might be the most interesting vote so far, for me at least. There are so many elements and interesting takes to it, it's fun to read the arguments.

There's the "a good character needs his inner emotions optimized"-school, with arguments like:
"Fear 2 is more productive", and
"Fear 3 is really bad for Daisuke's mental health. Fear 2 has much less downsides."

There's the "fears need to be logical"-school, with arguments like:
"Fear 1 is really stupid, as if Tokei actually could come back from his grave. Why would Daisuke fear that?"

There's the "I hate Kurenai now, so I'm going to vote for Daisuke to spite her even if it leads Daisuke to Genin corps"-subgroup.

There's the "I'm leaving the quest now that it got dark. What do you mean the setting is about child-soldiers killing each other?"-vote.


I'm being a bit sarcastic and exaggerating here, but in all honesty, I think that the various approaches were in general well argued for, even if I don't agree with all of them personally. It was fun and thought-provoking to see so many alternate viewpoints. I think the voters and Vesvius have done a great job here, and I hope the story will visit similarly challenging themes often in the future! Thanks all :)

Yes this is a shameless gush post. :p
 
Hey everyone, fake doctor here to weigh in on the whole...Kurenai putting us under a genjutsu thing. Just throwing my two cents out there, take it for what it's worth. I don't think it was all that big of a deal.

I know some take attacks against our character very seriously, but this is not the real world, this is Naruto. Teachers put their students in mortal danger on a regular basis here, so their students don't die when exposed to very mortal danger.

If the author had made it seem in story that we were under attack or that the genjutsu was akin to torture I would change my tune, but so far is seems more like projection to me.

I remember not too long ago when the thread was up in arms that Naruto was basically about to sexually assault Sakura, or when Mariko had come at us with lethal intent, now our sensei has become The Marquis de Sade. I'm sure there were more instances, but these were my highlights.

This is a world of hightened stakes, but not every slight against us is a deadly threat that requires a scorched Earth response.

Remember, in cannon Jaraiya threw Naruto off of a cliff, and Kakashi put Sakura under a genjutsu not to dissimilar from what we did.

If the author says it's a big deal then I'll jump on board the murder train. Until then, Doctor recommends easing up on the paranoia.

Love you guys.
 
And vote is closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Vesvius on Nov 27, 2018 at 12:01 AM, finished with 10767 posts and 155 votes.
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veekie said:
Its not regimented. The Genin graduation test is not that different to recruit hazing rituals.
Keeping in mind again, most teams pass, despite the tests seeming impossible to each team at the time.
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Ehr...perhaps I am misrembering or recalling a piece of fanon, but I'm fairly certain the pass rate for the Jounin-sensei tests is one out of three. That's not most teams, that's not even half the teams. If you accept that ratio as reliable, most teams actually fail.
veekie said:
Actually its been explained quite a few times. The personal value/perspective mismatch is such that neither of them can really acknowledge the other's points as valid, so there isn't much point to continuing.
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While the matter was certainly discussed, Katsuragi was not any kind of participant aside from lazy one liner remarks. I flipped back several pages to actually check and ran a search by member for his posts.

He doesn't have to participate, but it's hardly polite to stick his oar into a debate just to dismiss one side of the argument with a one-liner. If you're going to tell someone they're wrong, at least explain why you think they're wrong. It's just common decency.
 
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veekie said:
I'm not really seeing that. Hinata's issue is that her values are set at a 45 degree skew from normal. She doesn't value her personal accomplishments and one of the big reasons why Neji got to her was that she's thinking of Hanabi's well being, as well as herself not being worthy.

When it comes to the welfare of others she's always been steadfast...which is going to reflect in a Greatest Fear test if it was identical.
Willing to bet her Greatest Fear is failing others when they need her.
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Yeah we completely disagree with each other there. Hinata may care for others but that does not give her the power of niceness, because if this would have been the case she would not have failed in every mission while her teammates were depending on her. I get that Hinata is like the holy grail of naruto and has to be adored and considered badass or whatever but frankly speaking she was nothing and a nobody till her big badass love declaration during the Pain fight. Before the chunin exam she wasn't even prepared to really follow a nindo and bet her life like many other characters. I doubt that her greatest fear is to fail others , because of her low self-esteem she considers herself already a failure and therefore making it logical that she would fail others. This would never lead to expectations of herself to succeed in helping others and especially not let failure of it be her biggest fear. I think it is far more plausible that her biggest fear would be that the people she loves or admires(chief among them Hanabi and Naruto) hate or are disgusted by her for her constant failures.
 
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Wonder if there'll be an update eventually where we could vote for Chakra Senses to get some training? Only Attribute not at Superhuman or Pinnacle, though I feel like people have mostly ignored it because it lacked an Achievement like Control & Reserves.
 
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Wondering how was the mc's fight against sasuke so hard? I mean I am looking at their stats and he has expert skills which put him at the peak of a chuunin in some aspects and even better in some others. Daisuke should be as strong as a chuunin easily while still an academy student. Hes getting to the level of a jonin. I just don't see how sasuke could compete?
 
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