Okay, since there seems to be some confusion. When I say "Death of Superman", I am not talking about Superman dying in general, I am talking about the story called Death of Superman, where he fights Doomsday. Superman dying and having successors is perfectly fine, but it should not be an adaptation of Death of Superman because that story is a terrible way to kill off Superman. The Death of Superman story could only ever work if Superman does not actually die.
The reason All Star Superman is the best model to use for Superman's death is because in that story, his Death is one that reinforces the character's core theme.
But he DOESN'T die! You keep saying All Star Superman is the best model to use for his death, but he does NOT die in that story. It has him dealing with this notion of having one year left to live, then he learns he'll become a solar radio-consciousness and he goes and jumps in the Sun. He never even KINDA dies in that story.
Morally Grey Conflicts can exist, but Superman vs. Godzilla should not be one of them. That is a situation Superman is unambiguously in the right
You need to read more closely. I am not saying that the tropes is about Nature being evil. I am saying that if a Storyprotrays Nature as being in opposition to Superman, then Nature is evil in that story.
No, conquering the world is grossly out of character for Superman.
They not only can exist, that is what any real conflict actually is. Only in fiction can a true black and white conflict be shown, and even then that is the subject of discussion. I have argued on many occasions that the portrayal of Satan makes him sound like he's in the right, at least from a certain point of view. He sees this omnipotent being who claims to define what is right and wrong, and he thinks that being should be deposed. Some people would agree with that. Doesn't seem like you would, going off of what you're saying here. You seem to think Superman is some sort of Messiah who can do no wrong.
Opposing Superman does not mean someone or something is Evil. End of story.
2. Superman dying being a victory for Evil will always be a bad story
3. Again, dying and being killed are different things.
4. It's the same issue. The Death of Superman storyline just isn't set up to be an effective send off of the character
Trying to right that conflict so that they're both in the right is a foolish endeavor, and it is unnecessary. It's okay for Godzilla to be a bad guy for that story
And what I am telling you if that if Nature considered Superman to be a disruption, then Nature is evil. Superman is the quintessential. No one will read that and think that Nature has point.
Especially since there is literally nothing unnatural about Superman. Nature isn't limited to the Earth
You don't need to over complicate it. Godzilla is pissed off at humanity for hurting it, so he attacks. Superman is a superhero, so he defends.
Superman dying being a victory for Evil will always be a bad ENDING to a story, if nothing ever follows it up. Have you been reading our posts? The death of a hero is a great opportunity to elaborate on the motives of the villain and the rise of other heroes in the fallen hero's example. Dying is different than being killed, yes, but Superman cannot die of disease or age or poison. It's implausible to even suggest he could be overdosed on Yellow Sunlight, considering there's a story where he absorbs Blue sunlight and isn't harmed. He effectively becomes more powerful the more energy he absorbs, so the more energy he absorbs, the more energy he becomes ABLE to absorb.
We're not trying to write the conflict where both characters are in the right. They already ARE in the right. Because it's not a conflict of good and evil.
Superman is not unnatural on a cosmic scale, no. But he is unnatural for a Kryptonian, because their solar absorptive biology is not accustomed to having access to a Yellow Sun. Their sun had been red for a very long time. So it is not natural for him to have these powers, just possible because of his natural features. This would be like saying Magical powers are natural because a human's ability to learn them is natural. Humans can't naturally use magic, and Kryptonians don't naturally have superhuman strength. They just get it in the right conditions. More importantly, he's not natural to Earth, because he's not from Earth. Did you see the article about Rabbits infesting Australia? That's when you bring a 'harmless' bunny to another part of Earth, and that alone totally disrupted the ecology of that continent. Now imagine bringing this immensely superhuman being from another PLANET entirely. You'd be a fool to think that doesn't have a dire ecological impact.
It's not about in-universe perspectives, it's about out of universe perspectives. Out of Universe, we know that Superman is 100 percent a hero. If Godzilla is targeting Superman specifically, then we will see him as a villain for targeting someone we know is a good guy. If Nature is opposed to Superman, the people out of universe will see Nature as the villain.
By contrast, if Godzilla is simply lashing out and Humanity and that draws Superman into the conflict, it is possible for us to sympathize with Godzilla because the story isn't expecting us to see the quintessential Good guy as a bad guy.
It's not about in-universe perspectives, it's about out of universe perspectives. Out of Universe, we know that Superman is 100 percent a hero. If Godzilla is targeting Superman specifically, then we will see him as a villain for targeting someone we know is a good guy. If Nature is opposed to Superman, the people out of universe will see Nature as the villain.
By contrast, if Godzilla is simply lashing out and Humanity and that draws Superman into the conflict, it is possible for us to sympathize with Godzilla because the story isn't expecting us to see the quintessential Good guy as a bad guy.
Except Superman is not messing with the planet in any way. He is just saving people's lives
It absolutely does involve in-universe perspectives. If the narrative lacks internal consistency, no one will care about what they're reading. And what you just said is an inaccurate assertion. "We" do not know that Superman is "100 percent a hero." It's been shown in many story arcs again and again that Superman's level of power and the responsibilities put on him will, time and again, put him in a difficult moral situation. Out of which there is no easy solution. For example, any time he fights Captain Marvel/Shazam. That is a child he is punching. A little foster kid. Morally, I don't think it matters that he has the power to look like an adult. If Superman punches Shazam, especially if he throws the first punch, he is wrongfully assaulting a child. And he's fought the kid a LOT of times.
I actually agree with you. If Superman has to fight a representative of nature (say, Swamp Thing for example), then there will definitely be people who see him as in the right, and Nature itself as being morally corrupt. But not everyone will. In fact, there would be a lot of people who would be uncertain, driven to question their understanding. If Nature itself sees us, and sees Superman protecting us, as a threat to itself, who is in the right? I guarantee you there will be quite a few people who see that as a low point for the usually noble hero, depending on how the conflict ends. Can Superman learn to live, and defend us, in a way that is harmonious with the world we share? Or will he arrogantly decide the good of mankind is more important than this planet continuing to be survivable for ALL creatures that inhabit it?
No, I understand that perfectly well, and I agree that that arc was a bad attempt to kill him. Bad arc in general.
But he DOESN'T die! You keep saying All Star Superman is the best model to use for his death, but he does NOT die in that story. It has him dealing with this notion of having one year left to live, then he learns he'll become a solar radio-consciousness and he goes and jumps in the Sun. He never even KINDA dies in that story.
They not only can exist, that is what any real conflict actually is. Only in fiction can a true black and white conflict be shown, and even then that is the subject of discussion. I have argued on many occasions that the portrayal of Satan makes him sound like he's in the right, at least from a certain point of view. He sees this omnipotent being who claims to define what is right and wrong, and he thinks that being should be deposed. Some people would agree with that. Doesn't seem like you would, going off of what you're saying here. You seem to think Superman is some sort of Messiah who can do no wrong.
Opposing Superman does not mean someone or something is Evil. End of story.
Superman dying being a victory for Evil will always be a bad ENDING to a story, if nothing ever follows it up. Have you been reading our posts? The death of a hero is a great opportunity to elaborate on the motives of the villain and the rise of other heroes in the fallen hero's example. Dying is different than being killed, yes, but Superman cannot die of disease or age or poison. It's implausible to even suggest he could be overdosed on Yellow Sunlight, considering there's a story where he absorbs Blue sunlight and isn't harmed. He effectively becomes more powerful the more energy he absorbs, so the more energy he absorbs, the more energy he becomes ABLE to absorb.
We're not trying to write the conflict where both characters are in the right. They already ARE in the right. Because it's not a conflict of good and evil.
Superman is not unnatural on a cosmic scale, no. But he is unnatural for a Kryptonian, because their solar absorptive biology is not accustomed to having access to a Yellow Sun. Their sun had been red for a very long time. So it is not natural for him to have these powers, just possible because of his natural features. This would be like saying Magical powers are natural because a human's ability to learn them is natural. Humans can't naturally use magic, and Kryptonians don't naturally have superhuman strength. They just get it in the right conditions. More importantly, he's not natural to Earth, because he's not from Earth. Did you see the article about Rabbits infesting Australia? That's when you bring a 'harmless' bunny to another part of Earth, and that alone totally disrupted the ecology of that continent. Now imagine bringing this immensely superhuman being from another PLANET entirely. You'd be a fool to think that doesn't have a dire ecological impact.
1. Superman doesn't know he's going to survive in the story.
2. No, opposing Superman in general does not make one evil However in the situation that you have described, Nature is being evil in sending Godzilla after Superman. The scenario you have come up with is a black and white conflict
3. Do not accuse me of not reading your posts, when you clearly did not read mine. I flat out stated TWICE that "Dying and being killed are different things"
4. No, Superman is in no way, shape, or form unnatural. His are things that his species have naturally evolved, with no outside interference. Those are not unnatural
It absolutely does involve in-universe perspectives. If the narrative lacks internal consistency, no one will care about what they're reading. And what you just said is an inaccurate assertion. "We" do not know that Superman is "100 percent a hero." It's been shown in many story arcs again and again that Superman's level of power and the responsibilities put on him will, time and again, put him in a difficult moral situation. Out of which there is no easy solution. For example, any time he fights Captain Marvel/Shazam. That is a child he is punching. A little foster kid. Morally, I don't think it matters that he has the power to look like an adult. If Superman punches Shazam, especially if he throws the first punch, he is wrongfully assaulting a child. And he's fought the kid a LOT of times.
I actually agree with you. If Superman has to fight a representative of nature (say, Swamp Thing for example), then there will definitely be people who see him as in the right, and Nature itself as being morally corrupt. But not everyone will. In fact, there would be a lot of people who would be uncertain, driven to question their understanding. If Nature itself sees us, and sees Superman protecting us, as a threat to itself, who is in the right? I guarantee you there will be quite a few people who see that as a low point for the usually noble hero, depending on how the conflict ends. Can Superman learn to live, and defend us, in a way that is harmonious with the world we share? Or will he arrogantly decide the good of mankind is more important than this planet continuing to be survivable for ALL creatures that inhabit it?
And the reason it falls apart is the Superman likely does more than any other individual on Earth to keep Nature safe. Every time he destroys a meteor or stops an alien invasion, he's saving the environment. So there is no relatable reason for Nature to target him.
I noticed that we seem to have a fairly coherent framework for magic now. So I am taking a shot at how to tie in Geneforge. I might come back and flesh it out more but I wanted to get it out before I forgot about it again.
The core issue of Geneforge is magical genetic engineering, shaping, or life-crafting. It is a story of order against chaos.
The Shapers are an order that attempts to keep shaping from causing an apocalypse. They use magically created beings as slaves to automate things and rule by the power they have to shape. They are officially against genetically modifying humans. They also kill anyone who tries to learn their secrets outside their order.
There is a rebellion that objects to the enslavement of the created beings and uses Geneforges to genetically modify people and creations to be able to use shaping without long periods of training. They give Serviles(The manufactured slave race) and Dragons the ability to create life.
Short Summary: Geneforge magic is personal mantle magic based upon the Google doc.
Essence:
The core energy that is used for shaping is called essence. They can extract it from any willing or magically unresisting life.
In game, it is usually replenished by recycling it from your older creations or from essence pools*. Mechanically it is used to limit the amount of Creations that can be maintained by a shaper.
However, they in-game text claims that entire armies are maintained and commanded remotely with farseeing balls. It also mentions that the intelligence of the creatures and the ability of the shaper to direct them is a major aspect of how many they can maintain.
I think that the long-term decrease of essence capacity is used to maintain a mental connection with a creation. But that they can be used with less effective forms of command if they don't wan't to spend the essence cost.
They also have another separate pool they call energy that is used for their non-shaping spellcasting**.
Shaping:
To learn to shape takes decades of study through the shaper order. They are taught at academies where they start by shaping worms and eventually move to fyoras(fire breathing raptors) towards the end of their academy training.
To all large degree shaping is a skill. People who have been shaped by the Geneforge have a magical muscle memory that let's them naturally create creations even if they forget they are are capable of it they still do not lose the ability. However, I am uncertain of whether it is the same for shapers who learn through being taught. There are also canister which contain a substance that modifies a person to make them capable of creating a specific type of creation or casting a magical spell they don't know. However, using them makes you more arrogant.
What makes a geneforge better than canisters is that is more flexible, powerful, and can work on some beings that were intentionally designed to be unable to use magic or shaping by changing their make-up.
Society:
The shapers rule the continent they are on. They monitor all other magic using groups in their territory to ensure no one but them use shaping. They have networks of creatures as well as crystal run communications and equipment. However, they have no gunpowder or steam-based equipment. Movement speeds are slow. They live upon a basis of creations. There is also a large class of merchants and transporters who are subservient to the laws of the shapers. Powerful and experienced shapers become members of the shaper council and are allowed to rule fiefdoms they administrate. Large amounts of their mid level management is handled by their created minds. Which are effectively immobile A.I. which manage facilities.
*Essence pools are filled with photosynthetic microorganisms that use to refill it.
**Although some spells drain essence for a short time.
I think that potential we could treat Geneforge similarly to Tamriel with the whole colliding with the main part at a certain time and having it mash in and effect changes. The Geneforge would also be extremely valuable to any who gets access to it. I could see the rebellion attempting to recruit people from outside of terrestria if they got the chance.
There is the issue of which geneforge routes we take. There is a semi-canonical route for how the games lead into each other. I am also unsure of when we should have the fusionverse encounter Geneforge.
I have no experience with the Geneforge games but it looks neat. Personally I don't think we need to go as extreme as Tamriel for these guys. It sounds like a group of specialist wizards (Transmuters to use DnD terms) who are very secretive about their abilities. It's possible they were able to rule a continent or kingdom through their powers (maybe China, or a kingdom in China when it was a kingdom, or perhaps Brazil) some time in the past, before being forced into hiding by Wizard groups. Maybe one of the few sects remaining are hiding out on an island in the middle of nowhere to avoid drawing attention from Wizard groups or the Sorcerer Supreme.
The White Council from Harry Dresden for example forbids 'Transforming Others' in their Laws of Magic and it could be reasoned they put the rule their specifically to stop the Geneforgers from re-surging, or from people trying to copy their techniques.
If Essence is drained, does it kill the person it's taken from, like Life Force?
It sounds like a group of specialist wizards (Transmuters to use DnD terms) who are very secretive about their abilities. It's possible they were able to rule a continent or kingdom through their powers (maybe China, or a kingdom in China when it was a kingdom, or perhaps Brazil) some time in the past, before being forced into hiding by Wizard groups. Maybe one of the few sects remaining are hiding out on an island in the middle of nowhere to avoid drawing attention from Wizard groups or the Sorcerer Supreme.
The White Council from Harry Dresden for example forbids 'Transforming Others' in their Laws of Magic and it could be reasoned they put the rule their specifically to stop the Geneforgers from re-surging, or from people trying to copy their techniques.
If Essence is drained, does it kill the person it's taken from, like Life Force?
When Essence is drained from a creature that you created it kills them. That is referred to as absorbing a creation. In lore, it mentions that you can extract essence from a creation without killing it but is not allowed by the mechanics. However, you can also drain essence from other shapers and that does not kill them it only hampers their ability to create more creations. Humans develop the capacity to hold more essence over time by using it. However, the most power spell in the game is called remote kill. It is somewhat time consuming and energy intensive to cast. But when it is used you recover essence depending upon how powerful the kill creature or person is. Creatures that have been shaped by a person can be effectively killed at will by the one who created them. The main limits on this seem to be distance and control. Creatures that go rogue are unable to absorbed for essence. However, one character in game 4 mentions that if you use kill on a rogue creation that had been created or shaped by you that it was slightly easier and granted you more essence.
I started thinking about the endings and thought of a few that potentially could mesh well with the idea of them having declined in the current day.
The Troglobites are a group led by the most powerful human shaper that was with the rebellion. They believe that shaping had become evil over time. The extremist wanted to wipe out all creations but the leader does not approve of that approach. The key part is that shaping goes away but any shaped creations capable of reproduction survive and become new species. There is a list of them in the spoiler.
In the best Traklobite ending. Shaping New types of creations is banned. However, shaping most existing designs is allowed. Also intelligent enough creations are given equal rights to humans. Shaping eventually gives way to simple reproduction of already existing species because it is easier. So after most of the remaining shapers and life-crafters die out. Only those in the military keep the skill. Because the only use it has is the creation of things quickly. Eventually even that gives way to advancing technology in other areas.
List of intelligent creations that can reproduce:
Serviles: Like humans with low-level super abilities in strength, Extreme-super endurance, and decreased sleep. More durable than the average human but not super-level. Many are unintelligent but not all. Some are adapted to particular climates more than humans can. Such as furred serviles for cold climates. Or serviles that can sweat more effectively than humans.
Drakons: Shaped intelligent dragons. There are also barely intelligent dragons which are a separate species. Drakons are Fire breathing, flying, super strong, and super fast creations that are fairly good at shaping. Most of the best drakons at shaping are only so because of geneforge use. Some geneforges where tailor made to be able to be more effective for drakons. The high-level drakons were all killed in theis ending so only the ones that have low-level shaper abilities survived. The more powerful form of drakon is refered to as Ur-drakons and they can be shaped by the most powerful shapers as well as geneforges. THey were created based on the drayek design by Baazal
War/Shock Tralls: Basically giant Trolls who are not as intelligent as drakons or smart serviles but smarter than the dumb serviles.
Eyebeasts/gazers: The most frightening species in the geneforge series. They are paranoid but don't seek power. Rather they seek safety. They were created by Baazal to be as effective at magic as possible for a creation to be. They are are Aesxual and reproduce by dreaming where they create a new gazer for whom the details of the other gazer depend upon how they dream. They have many eyes witch have a hypnotic effect on anyone who gazes upon them. Eyebeasts mental magic level is the highest possible amount in the game. They can control master shapers like shapers control creations. They are powerful enough magically to make themselves biologically immortal if they wish but not all of them choose to do so. They are capable of creating auras over entire mountain valleys that place creations under their control. They can shape with the assistance of shaping platforms* and are better at it than drakons who have not been reshaped. However, I don't know of any occasions of them shaping without the platforms so they might not be able to. I think it is implied that only gene-forged creations can shape at-will. Eyebeasts seek to control everything around the area they live to ensure that their is nothing that can harm them. They usually get along well with gazers that they create until they start worrying that they will kill them and then they kill the other gazer to keep them from becoming powerful enough to stop them.
Crazy Guy creates a shaped plague witch wipes out all creations and anyone who has used a gene-forge or canister on themselves. It works and wipes out all life on the continent besides a portion of the shapers. It finds a way to kill shapers who did not use the geneforge as well but is not as effective. So only mid-level shapers and non-shaping humans who did not self-shape survive. A large amount of people starve because the crops were shaped as well. But they make new shaped crops and create a new order were no intelligent creations are made only ones with dog level intelligence.
Four different groups successively conquer most the world before a rebellion tries again. Almost everyone dies out who has any degree of intelligence. So the only thing that is left is a land filled with rogue unintelligent creations with no master.
There are also several evil dictator endings where different groups or individuals create extremely totalitarian regimes.
There are a very small amount of nice endings.
More Stuff I am adding at the prompting of my brother:
CoreBrute mentioned the possibility of having the remnants or the shapers on islands. There are 5 islands in geneforge 3 where the human part of the rebellion started. It might be easy to have the remnants of the rebel forces there. There are some other islands nearby which the shapers could be on. The rebels seek to bring shaping to as many people as possible but some members can be power hungry. One possibility is that the war has cooled down into skirmishes between the few remnants of the shapers and rebels.
My brother had and idea of having the traklovites join with the rest of the wizard community. And having them be responsible for the ban on shaping. Then having Liatailia becoming a promenant member of the magical community in the present. Then previously created species would still be around today and would be fairly common. However, new creations would not be made except by the hidden remnants of the shapers and rebels.
Liataila: Can shape 40 explosive (tier 4) kyshakks instantly. Can magically incapacitate 40 people instantly. Can rain fire on anything in sight. biologically Immortal. Capable of Eventually gives up shaping and switches to breading. However, she is still willing to use magic. In an emergency she might temporarily shape. leader of the traklobites
Galahdrian: Powerful Ur-Drakon. Strongest in game. Can shape four drakes(tier 3) and 4 battle alphas simultaneously. leader of drakon side of rebellion can shape stronger creations if neaded. capable of poweful magic in quick succesion combat magic.
Astoria: A political moderate and the most powerful of the agents. Powerful at magic but only a mediocre shaper. Agents are shapers who specialize in non-shaping magic and espionage. Not afraid of canisters but is against geneforge use. Seeks rights for creations with a moderate use of shaping. Ruled a river filled area. Might potentially be an inspiration for shaper remnants. Member of the shaper council.
Rawl: Create control tools to dominate the wills of anyone they are placed into and give him a remote kill switch. His research was used as proof of how evil shaping could be. Ruler of a mountainous region. Member of the shaper council.
Baarz: Died in geneforge 2. Creator of Drakons and Gazers. Rediscovered geneforge. Created the worlds biggest canister factory. Shut down by shapers in cannon route for geneforge 2. Wanted to make himself into a god. Created several new types of geneforges.
So remember when @5elementsage said I could use World Anvil to help keep track of the stuff in this thread? Well I used it to make a basic timeline for what we've got so far.
I'm having a bit of difficulty doing the BC and AD thing, so it says 10000 to 1599, instead of 10,000 BC to 1599 AD or -10,000 to 1599, but I'm working on it.
In the meantime, let me know what you guys think! The era names are just placeholders, and partially inspired by the game theory timeline video (see below), so let me know if you want to change any names or anything. I think we can use these to figure out where we want to put different media and stuff into the Fusionverse timeline.
Basically what I've got so far is:
10,000 BC to 1599 AD: The DisneyDistant Past. Basically where all the Disney movies before Pocahauntus takes place. This is from the beginning of human civilisation (more or less) to the 16th century. Anything in that timeframe we can put there, and this is where I imagine most of our mythology equivalent takes place.
1600-1837: The Elemental Era. This is when the bridge between the spirit world and the human world is made. The elemental spirits come out, some bonding with humans (creating Elemental Benders) and some becoming corporeal animal like creatures we now call Pokemon. I said the bridge was made somewhere in Asia (cause Avatar is basically Asian, and republic City is probably somewhere in Asia), so I mentioned one example of elemental warriors in Japan. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples out there, and this is probably where we could set Naruto (or maybe precursors to Naruto) if we wish.
I am not sure what's going on in the rest of the world during this period, so if people have ideas for what settings to put in here, be my guest.
1837-1908: Victorian Steampunk. This is where all Steampunk stuff takes place, including League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Sparks like Dr Frankenstein and Dr Monroe, The lost colony to Mars, etc, all ending with the Tunguska Event. While the cause has never been confirmed, scientists no longer were granted the free reign they once had afterwards and steampunk fell out of fashion.
1909-1938: Unnamed Era. Couldn't come up with a name for this period. It's got WW1, the great depression, end of cowboys with Red Dead Redemption 2, etc. If someone wants to name this era, by all means.
1938-1945: The First Super War. This is the first global war where beings with beyond human ability not only fought each other, but were also made as weapons. Captain America, Namor, The Justice Society, The War of the Worlds, all sorts happened during this time.
1946-1959: The Post War World. This is the period where the world does not know what to do with all these metahumans when there is no war for them to fight in. It's also when the Wild Card Virus is released and large numbers of the population are turned into metahumans against their will, and the world becomes terrified. Not just of the Atomic threat, but the metahuman threat as well.
1960-1992: The Silver Age. Named after the Silver Age of comics (but includes Bronze Age), this is when Superman appears and shows the world that metahumans do have a purpose outside of war. Metahumans can be heroes! Metahumans can make the world a better place! This is an age of rapid scientific experimentation, as well as first positive contact with alien life. It ends in 1992 when Superman dies.
1993-2007: The Iron Age. Without Superman, the world seems a much darker, more cynical place. New heroes try to replace Superman, but no one can live up to the man. This is an age of violent vigilantes and worse criminals. The government becomes more oppressive, best exemplified when the British Government launched attacks to round up and arrest all the Rowlings in the UK, killing those who resisted. With Superman, everyone can become the worst version of themselves. All it takes is one bad day.
2008-2030: The Steel Age. There is a new Superman, John Kent, and the world may not be as naive as they once were, but there is a renewed hope for the future. The world is more optimistic, more inclusive, and it's stronger for working together. It will not take one hero to save the world-now it's up to everyone to save the world. Basically the Modern Day.
2030-2099: The Resource Wars and Cyberpunk. Part of the world is a Cyberpunk paradise (or dystopia depending who you ask), with all the tropes. Other parts of the world are swarmed with private wars by megacorporations for the few resources from a dying world.
2100-2150: Apocalypses Now. This is when everything goes wrong. All the apocalypses happen at once, robots turn against mankind before trapping them as energy cells, aliens invade, zombies rise from the dead, Mutants use their powers to rule as Sorcerer kings, radiation fills the air, Dragons take Manhattan, etc. Mankind is forced to hide however they can, whether it's in vaults underground, or in massive walled cities, or just always be on the move. It's not sure how the world can recover.
This is where we put the apocalypses, all of them in this period, from Fallout to the Matrix to Judge Dredd, to the Walking dead. They may have started a bit earlier in some parts of the world, and some may go on a bit longer, but this is the bad point of history. The point where mankind doesn't think they will ever recover.
2150-2300: Plus Ultra. Mankind has finally been able to take back their planet. They've learned from the past and civilization is resuming-a different civilization, in a world where 80% of the survivors have metahuman abilities (called Quirks). Some say these are mutations from the radiation, others say it's due to all the intermingling of different species, or the side effect of transhumanist experiments during the Cyberpunk era, or others say this is just the reward of Gaia to the fittest survivors. Regardless, hope and heroes have returned, as mankind can finally look back towards the stars.
This is where My Hero Academia, One Punch Man, Overwatch, Mass Effect, The Expanse, Heroes Rise and all the other settings where mankind is on a clear course to extraordinary Space Opera stuff.
(Personally I think One Punch Man should take place early on, before My Hero Academia, as OPM cities are named after letters as if they are recently made, and they deal with constant monster attacks, making it seem like they are recovering from/pushing back against a Monster apocalypse, but I'm flexible)
2300-2500: Alien Wars. We've gone to space, and space isn't always friendly. We may have some allies, but we've made a lot of foes. This is the Enders Game, Halo, Star Trek, 5th Element, Alien, Starship Troopers, etc, where we are in space either on our own or as part of a Federation, and not everything in the galaxy likes that. Some of those fighting us may even be other humans from other planets, or even from our own.
Not every setting here will be a war setting, but this is where a lot of them take place. And that's as far as I got. Take a look at the timeline, let me know if you want me to adjust anything, or where you think certain settings or characters best fit in this timeline.
The Monster-Human War should definitely had happened in between the Distant Past and The Elemental Era, with humans falling from between the Elemental Era and Steampunk (the Cowboy Kid)
And Monster should be fred in 2015, so they come back in the Steel Age?
Also, the Underground would definitely become a safe heaven for humans, monsters and other beings during the Apocalypse Now era
The Monster-Human War should definitely had happened in between the Distant Past and The Elemental Era, with humans falling from between the Elemental Era and Steampunk (the Cowboy Kid)
And Monster should be fred in 2015, so they come back in the Steel Age?
Also, the Underground would definitely become a safe heaven for humans, monsters and other beings during the Apocalypse Now era
I assume Monster Human War is an Undertale thing? You tell me when you think it should have occured, and I'll put it in.
Well safe is a relative thing in a world where every apocalypse happens, but yeah I could see Undertale monsters (if they're good) try and shield as many humans as they can underground, which is probably not all of humanity. Unless they caused one of the apocalypses (I don't know Undertale that well to know if it's possible). But maybe even then they would have tried to help.
As for when, well, since Disney fairy tales happen in ancient time, and they already have swords and what not, I think it would have happened thousands of years ago
Well safe is a relative thing in a world where every apocalypse happens, but yeah I could see Undertale monsters (if they're good) try and shield as many humans as they can underground, which is probably not all of humanity. Unless they caused one of the apocalypses (I don't know Undertale that well to know if it's possible). But maybe even then.
Oh, they're good. They're literally made of positive feelings.
Also, the Underground (using Mettaton's ratings) housted tens of thousands of monsters before they were liberated. And since this would be an future time, with technology being a lot better, I think the population of the Underground (adding humans, some aliens etc) could easily be around hundreds of thousands, maybe even more.
Also, the Underground (using Mettaton's ratings) housted tens of thousands of monsters before they were liberated. And since this would be an future time, with technology being a lot better, I think the population of the Underground (adding humans, some aliens etc) could easily be around hundreds of thousands, maybe even more.
I'm not saying they don't have room. I'm saying when the apocalypses all happen, it's gonna be difficult for people from other states, let alone other countries, to survive the trip to Mount Ebbot. I assume they can put up some kind of shield or spell to stop the demons and zombies etc from getting it? Or at least to ignore the mountain.
Anyway I've added the war (in 3000 BC because mankind's earliest swords were apparently around that time, but I'd prefer it vague if possible), the 2015 release I called 'Pacifist Route', and the 2100 'Retreat to Mount Ebbot' events to the timeline.
Flowey's not a Monster, thought. He's literally just a flower that contains the essence and memories of Asriel Dreemurr, yet lacks a Soul (which is why he's a sociopath)
I'm not saying they don't have room. I'm saying when the apocalypses all happen, it's gonna be difficult for people from other states, let alone other countries, to survive the trip to Mount Ebbot. I assume they can put up some kind of shield or spell to stop the demons and zombies etc from getting it? Or at least to ignore the mountain.
The way I saw it, it was more along the lines of Monsters, humans etc fleeing as much of them as they can into Mount Ebbot, retreating into the Underground, and with the creation of a new barrier that prevents anyone without 7 powerful souls to enter or leave.
Also, things like Flu Travel, portals and what not from wizards, alongside technolgy I feel would help salvage as much population as it's realistically possible
Flowey's not a Monster, thought. He's literally just a flower that contains the essence and memories of Asriel Dreemurr, yet lacks a Soul (which is why he's a sociopath)
The way I saw it, it was more along the lines of Monsters, humans etc fleeing as much of them as they can into Mount Ebbot, retreating into the Underground, and with the creation of a new barrier that prevents anyone without 7 powerful souls to enter or leave.
Also, things like Flu Travel, portals and what not from wizards, alongside technolgy I feel would help salvage as much population as it's realistically possible
Yeah like I said, it would get a lot of people inside, but they can't keep the doorway open forever. They are going to have to get that magic barrier up at some point, before zombie infections, or Terminators or worse get in. Besides, not everyone is going to go to Mount Ebbot when everyone's 'favorite' company Vault Tech has a Vault set up locally. I mean, what could possible go wrong in a Vault Tech Vault?
But yeah those who don't make it in time, or don't know about Mount Ebbot before it's too late, survive in other ways. Australia becomes Mad Max, London becomes a moving city like in Mortal Engines, and of course you can always hide in Zion before the robots put you in the Matrix. And then after things calm down, 7 souls will probably come to Mount Ebbot and let people know it's safe outside.
Yeah like I said, it would get a lot of people inside, but they can't keep the doorway open forever. They are going to have to get that magic barrier up at some point, before zombie infections, or Terminators or worse get in. Besides, not everyone is going to go to Mount Ebbot when everyone's 'favorite' company Vault Tech has a Vault set up locally. I mean, what could possible go wrong in a Vault Tech Vault?
But yeah those who don't make it in time, or don't know about Mount Ebbot before it's too late, survive in other ways. Australia becomes Mad Max, London becomes a moving city like in Mortal Engines, and of course you can always hide in Zion before the robots put you in the Matrix. And then after things calm down, 7 souls will probably come to Mount Ebbot and let people know it's safe outside.
Yeah, there definitely would be other refuges for humans and other beings to stay by, the Underground would probs just be the biggest one (and I can actually see plans to expand it meanwhile they're there, creating entirely new zones etc)
In fact, some stories could happen in that timeframe there, like Deltarune or other non related stuff.
Yeah, there definitely would be other refuges for humans and other beings to stay by, the Underground would probs just be the biggest one (and I can actually see plans to expand it meanwhile they're there, creating entirely new zones etc)
In fact, some stories could happen in that timeframe there, like Deltarune or other non related stuff.
You know, the more I think about it the more I don't think Damian Wayne makes a good Batman. I mean in the version of the future we see, he gains demonic powers through some deal, and murders his opponents including feeding a criminal to cannibal rats after the criminal told him the info he wanted. I'm just not sure he's the right guy for the job.
I propose that Bruce Wayne was born 10 years after Clark Kent came to Earth, and started acting as Batman in the 60s, some time after Superman appeared. His son Damian is just 2 years older than John Kent, and are friends. However after the death of Superman, he becomes more reclusive and withdrawn, starts building his Brother Eye satellites to protect the world.
Sometime in the Iron Age, Damian is killed like in the comics. Batman has his Robin suit hanging up in the Batcave as a reminder. He distances himself from the rest of the Bat Family. The the new Superman, John Kent, asks him to join his new Justice League sometime in the 2010s. So this older Batman, (think Batfleck or Dark Knight Rises Batman) helps guide these new heroes.
Then in 2034, the now close to 80 year old Bruce Wayne trains a new Batman, Terry McGinnis.
As for Dick Grayson, he stays as Nightwing, until he becomes a police detective around the time of Batman Beyond. Barbara Gordon evolves from Batgirl/Oracle to Commisioner like her father. Tim Drake, depending who you ask either runs a bar or works as an engineer with a loving family. Jason Todd probably doesn't come back as the Red Hood after Joker kills him as Robin, but I guess that's up to @5elementsage.
And Damian Wayne is resurrected by his grandfather's Lazarus pits, becoming the true heir to the demon and leader of the League of Assassins, just like in the Batman Beyond comics.
So yeah that's what I've got, happy to take feedback here. Can someone convince me that Damian Wayne makes a good Batman, and not a better Demon's Head/leader of the League of Assassins?
Also, I know nothing about Geneforge but what y'all said was tasty! I support it. Anyone know if it breaks any of our rules?
I love the timeline!
Sorry my input's not very good. I desperately biked several miles to get internet and to apologize for being out of touch. Stupid american holiday. #iamNOTapatriotrarurirero
Geneforge has no lewd content that I have seen in my playthroughs of it. It also has no references to any real world religion that I know of. Religion has pretty much no role in the series.
Another game series by the same creator is the avernum series. It is about a people made up of the descendants of those banished by tyrannical empire to a underground cave system. They have their own kingdom there. They fight with nephilim(cat people) and lizardmen.
I would say, unless there is something in Deltarune that patently cannot exist in Undertale's universe, something antithetical to a core concept, then we can borrow from it. But we won't be dealing with the parallel universe in which it exists, just like we're not dealing with Earth-2, or alternate futures of Trunks, or universes other than 616, and so on.
So I have skimmed this thread for a bit, and I like the premise of this project. But one thing that keeps bothering me a bit is the fact that a lot of fictional works directly contradict each other. And I don't mean things like Harry Potter's magic system vs Avatar for example. But more from a pure historical point of view. So shows like Legend of Galactic Heroes might be able to be combined with Star Wars stories, but it would be impossible to do so with Star Trek or Futurama with clear established timeline of events. I get the idea that you guys will adapt many origin stories together so that it makes sense, but how would it work exactly for stories that take place in the distant future? In the case where two are two distinct timelines, do you guys just copy paste or do you have to change them? I think one possible solution for this is to set up an ultimate "Crisis on Earth" type of scenario at some point in the 21st century, so that parallel universes can be developed from this singularity point?? I get that we are trying to combine all the canons into one cohesive universe, but I think you can only combine so many before it starts to not making any sense at all.
Another thing I noticed is that the canons chosen here are primarily western fictions plus some manga and anime stuff, which is totally fine, but I do think we are missing out on some other fantastic stories from around the world like the Three Body Problem by Liu CiXin. Finally, I also feel like there is a lack of book stories (Like The Wheel of Time or The Foundation series by Asimov)? I understand that it is easier to focus more on character-based stories, but it would be great if you guys can balance it out a bit.
Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't know if I am able to contribute to this project. Let me know.
So I have skimmed this thread for a bit, and I like the premise of this project. But one thing that keeps bothering me a bit is the fact that a lot of fictional works directly contradict each other. And I don't mean things like Harry Potter's magic system vs Avatar for example. But more from a pure historical point of view. So shows like Legend of Galactic Heroes might be able to be combined with Star Wars stories, but it would be impossible to do so with Star Trek or Futurama with clear established timeline of events. I get the idea that you guys will adapt many origin stories together so that it makes sense, but how would it work exactly for stories that take place in the distant future? In the case where two are two distinct timelines, do you guys just copy paste or do you have to change them? I think one possible solution for this is to set up an ultimate "Crisis on Earth" type of scenario at some point in the 21st century, so that parallel universes can be developed from this singularity point?? I get that we are trying to combine all the canons into one cohesive universe, but I think you can only combine so many before it starts to not making any sense at all.
Hi Doctor, thanks for following! I understand your concern, and it's something we've sort of touched on as we build this setting. So far we aren't trying to get an exact 1-1 copy of any setting's history or timeline, but instead set up a situation where that story's characters and plot can play out.
One way we deal with future stories is like our example with Firefly, where we determined the most important thing was that they were space cowboys, rather than they were humans from Earth. So we made it the ship and captain Malcom was from Xanadar, a marvel planet of human like species, while the rest of the crew was composed of human like aliens. It's close enough that we can get these cool Firefly stories, while also allowing it to take place among contemporary characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Another way we do it is by putting the story in our new timeline which has been set up as a general idea of what the main arcs/ages of this setting are, and where certain stories fit in tone or genre wise. For example most modern stories take place in the Steel Age, 2008-2030, Cyberpunk stories happen between 2030-2099, and all the post apocalypse stories take place between 2100-2150. These aren't exact numbers, some settings might go a little before, a little after, but it's a basic outline. With that outline, we see which arc/age best suits the kind of story the setting we want to put in is. Once we do, we shave off the serial numbers and just adapt that setting's timeline to suit the Fusionverse timeline.
For example the original Star Trek tv series was set in 2267 which is perfectly near the edge of the Plus Ultra Age, where Earth is finally ready to join the stars. The major events of the star Trek timeline outside the shows aren't super important, because this is an alternate universe, (maybe the Eugenics Wars didn't involve just Khan, but perhaps involved Lex Luthor trying to make Superman Clones, just as an example)
but it's close enough that we can have a crew on a starship on a five year journey "to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."
Futurama is set in the year 3000 and is actually so far in the future the Star Trek timeline doesn't go that far. So the fact things are so different in that setting could be for any number of reasons. So I don't see a problem with putting that in, especially cause their timeline is done mainly for laughs anyway.
Does that make sense? Or am I explaining this poorly?
Another thing I noticed is that the canons chosen here are primarily western fictions plus some manga and anime stuff, which is totally fine, but I do think we are missing out on some other fantastic stories from around the world like the Three Body Problem by Liu CiXin. Finally, I also feel like there is a lack of book stories (Like The Wheel of Time or The Foundation series by Asimov)? I understand that it is easier to focus more on character-based stories, but it would be great if you guys can balance it out a bit.
Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't know if I am able to contribute to this project. Let me know.
I don't think the western fiction/anime thing was a choice, so much as 'these are the stories we know enough to offer expertise on'. The closest I was able to do was the 99 a comic series made in Kuwait, but that's due to my own personal limitation in knowledge. I personally couldn't finish the Three Body Problem as it wasn't for me, but it would be great to have people who were experts on foreign canons to share their knowledge. If you would like to help us by offering your knowledge on foreign canons, I'm sure we would love to have them in this setting.
Could you explain what you mean by a difference in book stories and character-based stories?
