From Stone to the Stars

Wouldn't many of the South Lake's slaves be former members of the Hundred Bands, so there is actually a great benefit to attack them now while it's still part of their cultural memory, as those we integrated should be able to rouse the Slaves and have there be a wider scale revolt instead of small fires that spurt sporadically. Geopolitically I also want to reclaim the Hundred Bands settlement given it's in a strategic location at the entrance to the River which is so dominant for us as a polity, and gives us wider access to resources within the lake. It serves as a great defensive location from which to base our raiders from, and we should have the population to fill it with the freed slaves making things considerably easier. It can also lead to a nice cycle where we raid the South Lakes, and take slaves back depriving them and benefiting our settlement growth. Then we do so again, and again, with some of the slaves likely joining in if they're aware of family members still in captivity.

It should also limit access to Arrow Lake, which makes a potential integration in the future more likely, and means we can take greater advantage of their gems trade.

Militarily, the South Lake are probably are the weakest they're going to be for a while with both internal and external problems, and a perilous food situation. Notably we've also gotten those new canoes as a technology which are stable platforms, so should make using them as an archer platform make a great deal of sense. Logistically, it also means that we can greater supply our forces should we attack which is an obvious benefit.

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[ ] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[ ] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[ ] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)

Tentatively, this would be my vote. Take advantage of the South Lake opportunity, and our own past actions towards Hundred Band refugees, to go raid them and ideally settle the island again. Take expand aquaculture as our food situation is still precarious, and there could be a synergy with the raid; if we can use our stable canoes to fish further out into the lake with which we can supply our raiders.

I'd take just build a wall as there is a chance this is just a result of food deprivation in the area, so trade may be difficult with the Mountain Tribes if food is scarce thus feeling the need to fight instead of have peaceful relations as they have with Arrow Lake in the past. So instead I'd build a wall as it should dull the desire to raid Arrow Lake, as I believe that their relationship will normalize with Arrow Lake as the food situation improves in the future. It should also serve as a long standing cultural benefit, if those within Arrow Lake can physically look at something we built to protect them on a daily basis.
 
[ ] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[ ] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[ ] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)

were going to need multiple food options soon so that the people don't starve...maybe we can find ways to make granaries? or perhaps find MORE food sources that can last longer? I mean chickens would be great to have, and maybe some pigs and cows if we ever find something akin to them!
 
During the last few updates people complained that we did not diplomance enogh. Why don't we leave the south alone while we expand our trade network with the mountain clans and expand our food sources?
 
During the last few updates people complained that we did not diplomance enogh. Why don't we leave the south alone while we expand our trade network with the mountain clans and expand our food sources?
Leaving the South alone is a waste of a great Diplomace Option.

A common enemy will gain us the friendship of the Island Makers, helping spread their tech to us and secure a strong friend, unite the People/Hundred Band divide we have, and reinforce our Culture of war for when the Peace Builders resume the Culture War we're having.
 
[ ] [Raid] Yes, allow young men to go south and fight.

I like this as a middle ground - we don't ignore the situation, but it also allows us a degree of deniability on the "Trade, then turn around and backstab" front.

[ ] [Arrow] Talk to them, maybe there's a solution there? (Trade: Mountain Clans)

I'd very much like if we could arrange a peaceful option to the situation.

[ ] [Crisis] Build morale. (Annual Festival)
[ ] [Crisis] Appease the spirits! (Undergo Ordeal)
[ ] [Crisis] Touch base with someone? (Trade: Pearl Divers OR Northlands OR Peace Builders)

These, I'm not sure of a first choice that I think is best, but I'd rather avoid making war our first response and not fall into a default response of "MOER FOOD!"; Redium did already point out that agriculture, as important as it is, is not a magic fix-all tool.

South Lake was a trade partner once, and raiding them would hurt future trade prospects...if they survived.

I don't see why we'd want to trade with them in the future, except as a de facto "Please don't attack us" bribe. Which, if they did threaten to attack us anyway, that would basically give us all the justification we'd need to forget previous trade deals and go to war with them outright.
 
Im not sure I read this right, was half a sleep, but isnt south lake eating their own slaves? Eating people regularly isn't healthy I mean sure in a pinch you can but prolong eating of human flesh can cause you to die, heck if anything our armies going off to raid is going to find a near dead people half mad from their disease and may catch bloodborn diseases if they end up in a fight with these husks of humanity.

However its likely that our raiders are going to go there and find half of the people dead due to their disease had just killed everyone, and so boom, we claim the south lakes under the people! Heck if we employ a sizable people to raid we can settle right away.
 
Honestly, this alone is an argument for why we would want to attack South Lake instead of going back to trading with each other.
Considering that we are currently in the early era of humanity I feel the culture of eating people shouldn't be considered bad or taboo to the people, that is, until they see the effects of eating people first hand, would diffidently keep us away from such a thing. Maybe make it into a trait where the idea of eating people would be considered evil as ''spirits'' attack and kill offenders.
 
Considering that we are currently in the early era of humanity I feel the culture of eating people shouldn't be considered bad or taboo to the people, that is, until they see the effects of eating people first hand, would diffidently keep us away from such a thing. Maybe make it into a trait where the idea of eating people would be considered evil as ''spirits'' attack and kill offenders.

We will have to agree to disagree. I'm going to consider eating other people to be a bad thing.
 
[ ] [Arrow] Talk to them, maybe there's a solution there? (Trade: Mountain Clans)

I'd very much like if we could arrange a peaceful option to the situation.
The problem is that they are raiding because they're starving. Everyone is. Except us since we got food preservation and strong enough walls that they'd starve trying to reach our food..

There isn't a solution that can peacefully make them stop raiding other than make it too hard to raid.
 
Eh, just cook them?? That gets rid of a good amount of diseases.
Not particularly interested in solving the Island Makers' problems for them. They're raiding those who come near their waters indiscriminately, posed a major threat to the Hundred Lakes, and may pose a threat to us as well. But yes, military expertise and an outlet for our young men is good.

[ ] [Raid] Yes, allow young men to go south and fight.
[ ] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[ ] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
 
Eating people regularly isn't healthy I mean sure in a pinch you can but prolong eating of human flesh can cause you to die,

1) I wouldn't doubt that nobody in this time period knows about the harmful effects of cannibalism.
2) Even if they did, they're probably of a short-termed mindset of 'we need to survive now, who cares if it's harmful for our health in the long run'.

The problem is that they are raiding because they're starving. Everyone is. Except us since we got food preservation and strong enough walls that they'd starve trying to reach our food..

There isn't a solution that can peacefully make them stop raiding other than make it too hard to raid.

You don't think it's possible to find a peaceful solution to the matter?

While I was originally reluctant to vote for advancing agriculture, I could see voting for it if it allowed us to have enough of a surplus of food that we could find some way to arrange for a peaceful solution to the situation by way of trading them excess food.
 
These, I'm not sure of a first choice that I think is best, but I'd rather avoid making war our first response and not fall into a default response of "MOER FOOD!"; Redium did already point out that agriculture, as important as it is, is not a magic fix-all tool.
While I was originally reluctant to vote for advancing agriculture
Except were not expanding agriculture, but AQUAculture, were fishing more.
 
Seeing as the votes closed, can you kindly let us know whats the other eye of the needle option?

The other option was

[ ] [Pay] The matriarch and patriarch of each extended family.
[ ] [Politics] Organize a council with elected representatives of all settlements.
[ ] [Men] Trial of Acclaim: a boy becomes a man after he is recognized by a vote of his settlement.

And one of these:
[ ] [Women] Trial of Age: after going through puberty, a girl is recognized as a woman.
[ ] [Women] Trial of Life: there is no such thing as a girl, only women and younger women.

This would've pushed you towards a matriarchy-based clan structure. It would've looked a lot like many of the North American First Nation tribes. Women would've come to dominate low-level politics, organization, and the economy while men are pushed to take on 'executive' roles. Essentially, while your tribe's chief and many other important figures would be male, they would serve at the pleasure of a female dominated tribal council.

What would happen if we selected both vs South Lake? Or, stranger still, 'no' wins in the specific South Lake task but then we simultaneously vote to raid South Lake in the [Crisis] task?

If you select both versus South Lake, you hit them twice. You get two raid rolls and both resolve normally. If you don't agree to work with the Island Makers, but raid South Lake anyway, that's not going to work out for you very well. You'd still roll, but eat penalties for disorganization and exceeding your supply lines.

@Redium I am also a bit confused regarding the government type. I thought we voted to have a Bigger Man, and that the elected council was clearly below him in hierarchy.

You don't have enough centralization for that right now. If it was higher, you would've gotten Tribal Chieftain as your government type. You're kind of in an in between stage right now between regular Tribal Council and Tribal Chieftain. You're moving towards the later, though.

The way your government type works is that each settlement's Big Man contributes one member to a central council. One of those Big Men is 'first among equals', the one who presides over the small council and has the highest precedence. This position is informal, but it does carry a lot of power. Tribal Chieftain would've been roughly the same, a settlement-by-settlement council ruled over by a chief elected from among the council's ranks. That chief would've had explicit powers to organize and command those lower in the tribe's hierarchy. You don't have that since you lack the required Centralization.

Depending on how you push things in the future, you could continue to develop your centralization, or continue with a more decentralized model.

Lastly, regarding the Trials of Adulthood, I assume that (based on the megaprojects tab in the first page) while food surplus/motherhood is the hard part, there are still some symbolic trials and rites which mean that children don't instantly become adults after reaching the main criterion, but first have to be ritually acknowledged as such. How does that currently look?

How does ritual acknowledgement of adulthood look?

Anyone who completes their rite of adulthood is allowed immediately to participate in the tribe's elected council. During Winterfeast, a festival on the Winter Solstice, everyone whom became an adult is acknowledged in a public rite. Ritual gifts are given from the tribe to new adults who then pass them in turn onto their parents as a sign of thanks, but are then returned. Most of the ritual gifts are useful things, a canoe and paddles, knives, tools, or weapons, beautiful necklaces of amethyst and quartz or shells, etc. There's dancing, feasting, animal sacrifice and other rituals. The People will paint themselves with ocher, celebrating their triumph and a limited few of the new adults will be given the opportunity to take on the persona of the People's spirits and lead the ritual dances. They are also in charge of telling the People's tales to the children on behalf of the elderly.

Currently, the People who celebrate one birthday, Winterfeast. On that day, everyone is considered to be one year older, whether you were just born or if you birth was 11 moons ago.

Kaspar must be absolutely ancient by now. 90? 100 maybe? Legends are going to be told of him.

He's pushing into his mid 80s right now. He's not a lot older than the rest of the People's elders, but he is noticeably old. As long as you reach age 15, you have a 75% chance to reach at least 65. About 30% make it to 75 and 15% make it to 85. As long as you made it to 15, life expectancy in the Neolithic varied from 68-78 on average.

@Redium Does trading with the Mountain Clans force us to commit to long term trade with them without being able to attack them like it with South Lake or is it just the option to talk with the Mountain Clans without any long term commitment.

Not necessarily. Trading with the Mountain Clans will provide additional options next turn on how to address their concerns. Some will be short-term solutions, other longer.

Voting Open!

Should the People aid the Island Makers against South Lake?


[ ] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[ ] [Raid] Yes, allow young men to go south and fight.
[ ] [Raid] No. This war is not the People's.

How do the People help Arrow Lake?

[ ] [Arrow] Break the Mountain Clans! (Raid: Mountain Clans)
[ ] [Arrow] Talk to them, maybe there's a solution there? (Trade: Mountain Clans)
[ ] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[ ] [Arrow] Let Arrow Lake solve their own problems.

All that was left was to organize the People's response to the crisis.

[ ] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
[ ] [Crisis] Build morale. (Annual Festival)
[ ] [Crisis] Take out a rival. (Raid: Peace Builders OR South Lake)
[ ] [Crisis] Appease the spirits! (Undergo Ordeal)
[ ] [Crisis] Touch base with someone? (Trade: Pearl Divers OR Northlands OR Peace Builders)
 
Whichever the case, I'd be in favor of expanding our food production if it were used in combination with attempting to trade or negotiate with Mountain Clan, otherwise I'd prefer to go another route.
It's not really that beneficial though, as we don't have river access to Arrow Lake much less where ever the Mountain tribes are. We'd suffer our food rotting quite considerably, which is awful given how much everyone else is food scarce right now.
 
He's pushing into his mid 80s right now. He's not a lot older than the rest of the People's elders, but he is noticeably old. As long as you reach age 15, you have a 75% chance to reach at least 65. About 30% make it to 75 and 15% make it to 85. As long as you made it to 15, life expectancy in the Neolithic varied from 68-78 on average.
Huh, a respectable age.

Love your writing, btw!

[X] [Raid] Yes, allow young men to go south and fight.
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
 
[X] [Raid] Yes, allow young men to go south and fight.
[X] [Arrow] Talk to them, maybe there's a solution there? (Trade: Mountain Clans)
[X] [Crisis] Build morale. (Annual Festival)
[X] [Crisis] Appease the spirits! (Undergo Ordeal)
 
[X] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[X] [Arrow] Talk to them, maybe there's a solution there? (Trade: Mountain Clans)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
 
[X] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)

I've argued the reasons at the top of the page but to summarize, there's a great deal of incentives to attack South Lake right now given our past actions with Hundred Band refugee's and this is a limited opportunity as they are suffering from food scarcity, internal problems, and external problems. For us ourselves, there's potential for getting the former island settlement of the Hundred Bands, and culturally should help unify ourselves. Build a Wall was chosen as we can't really do much about the Mountain Tribes starving, which is the most likely reason for their being aggressive right now, and given their past relations it's quite likely they'll become more peaceful with Arrow Lake once food security improves. Thus build a wall helps deter raids on Arrow Lake, and means they have a specific and important building that we built to protect them that they'd view every day, which could help us in the future if we integrate them.

Finally expand aquaculture as they may be synergy with the South Lake Raid for logistical reasons, and also because we're still in a food scarce environment. Thus taking this is a pseudo stability insurance action as well as economic, as if starvation bites our people our stability will undoubtedly drop.
 
[X] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
 
[X] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
[X] [Crisis] Build morale. (Annual Festival)
 
[X] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[X] [Arrow] Talk to them, maybe there's a solution there? (Trade: Mountain Clans)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
 
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