Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
By all indications for right now, its the latter. Though I am personally hoping for Psyker warhammer style Space Magic so that Kasper can return to lead us...
That or no magic at all either or
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From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
That or no magic at all either or
.
Plot Twist: The People are the most ancient decedents of the Orks. 
Aetharian
Currently on Fire
- Location
- USA
By all indications for right now, its the latter. Though I am personally hoping for Psyker warhammer style Space Magic so that Kasper can return to lead us...
That or no magic at all either or
Thanks, cab't decide on whether or not I should give this a funny or informative
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I might could knock something together.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
How can someone be put through the trials? That sounds especially bad for foreign women.
I thought there were social connotations beyond just the right to vote and have a say in politics. Stuff like that children have to be taught lessons of various kinds, disciplined, are more closely bound to their parents wether they want it or not, and so on.
Like, in our society one major trial is becoming 18 (marked by completion of high school), and people are treated differently beyond rights to vote and drink merely for not looking like someone 17 or younger anymore. Then again, the People are young and the Trials even younger. Maybe they cause our society to have a word like "teenager" much much earlier than we did in real life. After all a woman is clearly expected to be married maybe even years before becoming an "adult", yet not all girl children are eligible for marriage.
When the option was there I thought getting a Bigger Man was such a decision. How are decisions that increase centralization separated from decisions that require an increase in centralization instead?
Well, unless suppressed in some way, it seems inevitable that women who won't or can't have children but are strong and healthy enough to at least take over the more visible male roles in society will want to do so without truly wanting to be men, just for the right to vote and such. Especially once we get higher specialization and there are men that provide for society with jobs that require more skill and less physical power.
Do we have any developed gender norms beyond type of work yet? Things like clothing and accessories, speech patterns, roles within the family unit, religious proscriptions and social taboos? Depending on what they are I see complicated times ahead. Especially for strong willed and ambitious infertile women.
RomanceNinja
The Pun-isher (Official Meme Wizard)
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] [Raid] Yes, launch a raid! (Raid: South Lake)
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
[X] [Raid] Yes, allow young men to go south and fight.
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
[X] [Arrow] Build them a wall. (Build Wall: Arrow Lake)
[X] [Crisis] Food, you fools! (Expand Aquaculture: Fish)
- Location
- USA
So would a build dam action be a specialized megaproject as no one has likely attempted to create one thus far, or will it be tied into other options such as aquaculture?
Also, considering it looks likely that we will indeed raid South Lake this turn with the Island Builders acting as a forward operating base, assuming they don't betray us, will our warriors be able to figure out any of their innovations through simply going through their territory?
So, in that case, did we actually lose anything by choosing the choices we made this turn for our system of government? Meaning, has any of the possible actions we could have been taken suddenly been closed off immediately due to this choice?
So are they united in any way? Such as if we attacked one of the clans, would the others band together to defeat us? Like are they a confederacy or is there one dominant clan which holds leadership over the mountain clans?
So, I'm assuming if we ride out this crisis, which is the general freezing rains and all that, we'll automatically get +1 Stability even if say Kaspar dies?
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
This one sounds like an actual bell.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Have The People even discovered music yet?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Yes
I was asking what exactly our music is like.
In order to complete the Trial of Utility, a man would have to provide for all of their own needs for a full rotation of the moon. Provided a male immigrant is uninjured, they would immediately start on that.
A female immigrant will either pass automatically (i.e. she has children) or pass if she's examined by the tribe's female elders and they are satisfied that the woman has indeed given birth in the past. An immigrant woman who doesn't fall into either of those categories isn't forced to have children, but is is encouraged. Even beyond the increased level of social respect and power it would give, there's material benefits to attracting a mate. A mate provides not only their own labour, but has their entire extended family to fall back on. The gap between 'physically adult woman' and 'childless adult woman' is almost non-existent. Most women have children by the time they're 18-20 in the Neolithic.
Females are either physically prepubescent children or married adults. There's not really a grey area between that.
Women also have a proportionally much larger franchise than men. Most women who are at 18 can 'vote', but most men can't until they're around 25-28.
Children aren't actually directly taught, at least, not as we would conceptualize it. Most true learning is done by imitated skilled adults. There isn't really a period of apprenticeship. A lot of the time, kids weren't given formal responsibilities until they were 16-20; one of the main determinations was onset of puberty. (Yes, in the neolithic, puberty could be delayed for some people until age 20. Differences in diet really slowed down puberty.) Probably the biggest part child's 'education' is learning social skills. Being able to make friends, cut deals, acquire favours and pay off debts is acutely critical. Their time before puberty really tends to be their own. Neolithic children had a shocking amount of freedom and free time.
There's really not a degree of hard separation here. Some people are deemed suitable for vocational careers younger, some older. It has a lot more to do with physical capacity than tradition. To some extent, your Elite traits push children to grow up faster. They want to be recognized as excellent hunters/gatherers/whatever.
This question is really hard to answer because we often don't know much about how children were treated in the Dawn of Agriculture. Post-Agriculturally, the age of adulthood slowly lowered until about 12 years of age (when puberty started) since nutrition became more consistent and people started to put on additional weight. Before puberty, children weren't really even thought of as being people. They were almost never buried (unless they were buried with an adult relative) and there doesn't appear to be much reverence for those burials we do find. Most of them have few, if any, grave goods and tend to be located in places isolated from the settlement and other graves.
It did increase your centralization. You're just sitting at 1 right now when you need 3 for Tribal Chieftain. The Economic choice you made and the earlier decision to found multiple settlements actually pushed your level of Centralization down noticeably. You were negative for a while.
Yes, but one of your chief spirits, Brother Wolf, is gender queer or gender fluid. It has weird effects on your gender norms. Women wear make much more frequently than men. They also tend to wear more jewelry; crystals, carved ivory, and pretty things. Men tend to wear jewelry as well, but it's more often carved bone or obsidian. You don't perform ritual scarification, but battle scars are prized. Not ones that are debilitating, but the nastier a wound looks, the better it often is.
Childcare is generally cared for mostly equally. There's been some indications that it's becoming more unequal as a side effect of your Elite traits. Men are heavily pressured to be The Best and are often forced into a Red Queen Race to try and stay on top in order to maintain social position. This is encouraged by their wives and families because high status men are an enormous boon to their families. Having a famous or powerful male relative means that you can lean on their reputation in order to get favours or things just generally done. Hunting, particularly of high value animals is encouraged. More than a few men have died due to trying to take on a bear or orker and getting killed for it. If you had picked Trial by Ordeal or War, this would be way worse.
Women are slowly pushing more and more to commercialized child rearing. Since women are in the longhouse more often, they act primarily as influence brokers. They make and keep friends, leverage connections, and engage in social promotion. They need to be together to do that and integrated child rearing and gathering. The cultivation of wild rice has helped with this a lot. Planting and harvesting the rice involves going out into canoes and either scattering rice grains into the water, or threshing them into the canoe for harvest. Neither task is physically demanding and it gives a lot of time to talk and plot.
For social rituals, girls are secluded for a period of 3 moons when they first experience puberty and childbirth is considered to be a women-only event. Men don't really have any gender specific social rituals yet.
For ways of speaking, men are far, far more direct than women. Flat Arrow Outlook and I Want To Be The Very Best means aggression is prized. Subtle language an double-talk are more common among women. There is still a degree of aggressiveness that would be shocking to many. Flat Arrow Outlooks affects women too.
Dams are a megaproject, but will eventually become an Extended Project. Extended Projects are major tasks that have strong effects, but aren't really unique. A lot of Megaprojects simply unlock later Extended Projects. The Hill is one example.
Eh... hard to say. It depends on rolls. Technologically, you're the most advanced civilization on the map. Others have more developed social concepts, but that's not easy to just pick up by walking through their territory.
No. The benefit of a decentralized system is that it expands a lot faster. The downside is that it tends to be less stable over all. There's fewer points of complete failure in a decentralized system, but when you have a lot of gears working in unison, it's very easy for them to grind hopeless against each other. Centralized civilizations tend to be tougher, but toughness may not matter so much when a decentralized polity can drown you in bodies and resources or choke off expansion. Decentralized governments can usually get more done.
Hard to say. There's some degree of kinship between different bands, but a lot of them really, really hate each other. It would depend on when and how fighting broke out.
Yes. Unless your raid spectacularly blows up.
Mostly ritualized chanting and drums. Music is still primarily religious and is associated with dance. Most people can actually play an instrument or sing to some extent. Number 1 instrument type is percussion, of rawhide drums and stone. You also have flutes that can generally only play a few high pitched notes. Bass and alto sounds tend to be made of chanting while drums form the rhythm. There's not much to do during the winters and playing music, telling stories, or having competitions are among the best ways to spend time. A lot of story tellers will incorporate music into their stories to make them more interesting.
There's no formal theory of music. People play what speaks to them on an instinctual level. Songs tend not to be formally taught, but are played in large groups where everyone learns their part by listening. When someone dies, they're replaced by a younger member of the longhouse, who takes up their role.
There won't be an update out tonight, and likely not tomorrow either. Work's been asking for 12 hour days the last few days so I haven't had time to write. I should finally have some time to sit down on Friday.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
For the purpose of furthering my education, do you have a source for this?
- Location
- Festering in a vat of acid
Thought this was really interesting about 5,300-year Otzi the Iceman's 61 tattoos. Might give you some inspiration.
- Location
- USA
I'm guessing that dams are most likely used for irrigation, and that their building speed is likely impacted by our rush builders trait. I'm curious though, can we use dams for other purposes? Such as if we are proficient enough, can we say dam up a river or divert a river in order to flood an enemy settlement later down the line?
I was mostly wondering if we could pick up some of their technology for say building their islands, which likely has a specific process, and for their food production. Such as if an enterprising warrior saves some of the seeds from some of the plants they feed us on this campaign which we can then use to later expand our for our own crops, or even maybe to just point out how seaweed is edible.
Are we the most centralized or decentralized so far? Because it seems like we're trying to go for a mix at the moment since we seem to be fine with expanding in order to safeguard our territory using multiple settlements, whereas most others have less territory and settlements than us.
Also how would feudalism fit in that scale?
Because right now it seems like we are the most expansionistic of the current civilizations, while at the same time having a fairly centralized, or at least complex, operation due to how our civilization is working internally.
As for toughness, and I assuming by toughness you mean a measure of resistance to shock, such as natural disasters, war, bad harvests, and so forth right?
So if we interacted with them, and played favorites, we could likely have probably elevated one into a sort of vassal of ours, whereas if we commenced a campaign of extermination we likely would have united them?
I'm assuming you haven't rolled the dice for this yet. How many bonuses have we gotten from this, and due to selecting the proper raid option, will our holy orders participate?
Does that mean Flat Arrow is leaving a gap since the women are not interacting with it much?
How do we handle traits half of society engages heavily in and the other half don't touch?
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
"Why are you Spartan women the only ones who can rule men?"
"Because we are also the only ones who give birth to men."
Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
"And you could not give birth to men without men"
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Don't question their logic, its not their fault they barely understand human biology!
We're pretty conservative with expansion actually, since we like to make investment heavy settlements, each with a surplus of facilities, which means that founding settlements is pretty expensive for us.
We're somewhere in the middle because our extensive facilities buffer losses from raiding and environment even though our centralization was crap(as we've seen the difficulty in helping villages). Most expansionist civilizations would be settling something basically every generation once they figure out reliable farming(and then going pop like a bubble, spawning multiple successors)
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
That's concerning. This quest seems to be building too tall.
Building tall is good for stability, see how we survived the past climate rolls when everyone else dissolved like cotton candy.
Its not a bad thing, the important part is not to forget to expand once you are tall enough.