From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Longer that takes the more pinched everything else gets though. Risky play. But seems to me the lone temple is ideal because we got a giant empty chunk in our settlement patterns that makes it easy to cleave our civ in half...and it only needs a Hill. Its already on the relay path
- Location
- USA
Don't get me wrong I still do want to resolve our current infrastructure and deficit problems, so I don't personally think we should intentionally try to have a shortage of materials just to get the lock in for everything. But, with our current moderate deficit in materials, with materials being the things that the Northlands are lacking, I think that may just end up being the case here.
Either way, I am hoping that the choices made, specifically with trying to rush build the Temple this turn by picking it and the Finger Headman, should allow us to get pretty close to finishing our tall build lock in strategy, especially if we get the debtors needed for a free Hill at the Fingers.
In any case I was thinking the same thing regarding where to put the Northlands. By putting them at the Cave of the Stars, it keeps our tall strategy intact while at the same time bridging the gap we have between Crystal Lake and the Fingers, though I do wonder if this will just be seen as another settlement entering the orbit of Crystal Lake, or if it will be more independent as the Star Shaman seem pretty powerful religiously.
I largely think this option is probably our best bet for a settlement site for the Northlands.
As you said it does bridge the gap between Crystal Lake and the Fingers, with the settlement likely lying on the route of the Fire Relay, meaning we don't have to build any more for them.
The Temple already being present should do well with at least allowing us to keep one building locked in so that when we do expand at least we don't have to worry about that.
When looking at it's location on the map and comparing it with their previous location, I think that we should be fine when it comes to their biome as while the immediate surroundings of the Cave of the Stars settlement is mostly the dark green forested tiles we are used to, once we get immediately past that, something the Northlands hunters should be able to bypass easily especially if mounted, we get to the light green plains or something that their summer settlement was surrounded by, so they should be fine with hunting in this area.
As for the cons, I don't disagree with them, I'm just hoping we can make up for that fact with farms say over the frontier across the river from it, far enough way for us to keep this settlement supplied.
What I am curious about, though, is how our choice here affects what is mentioned above. As while we aren't exactly located on River-Bend, we are closer to it and those other locations than the other two settlements nearby, so hopefully settling here will open up future settlement sites for us. Especially as it seems the Cave of the Stars is pretty close by to the Lakes used by the Lakelands tribe, and likely is situated on a small river that leads into them.
Mostly agree, though I think the mixed option, mostly unexplored, refers to the River Fork option, which is what I think the Cave of the Stars option is for as that is where most of the unexplored white tiles are, while the River-Bend site on the map seems much more explored.
Not a particularly bad choice, aside from taking us off from our tall strategy, but also not a preferred one due to things you've mentioned. Sure, it will be the easiest ones for the Northlanders to adjust to and likely thrive in, and it keeps their original infrastructure of trails, but it also gives us a problem of distance again without the benefit of anything like a Fire Relay. Considering the problem we're having with the Fingers right now, I expect similar problems with building a site here as it isolates them to a good degree with the rest of our civ. The horrible agriculture doesn't help either.
I have a question though for @QM, does our choice of settlement options affect our potential technologies gained from the Northlands and research into it? @Redium
As while I am sure that while we likely can get caribou where we are, I am not so sure about Mammoths. Any clarification here?
While this is true, when looking at the map for the Cave of the Stars' settlement position, I don't think we can count them out either as they are not too far from the steppes/tundra where the nomads can come down from.
Again, not a bad site but I don't think we need it now.
Yes, we are making good progress absorbing the Pearl Divers, but I think we have time to further absorb them once the trending salt goes down.
As for claiming the eastern floodplains, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the eastern floodplains, as identified by the QM in a post I quoted, was simply the area east of us on the Valge River near that island the Island Makers inhabit, which in that case makes other options more viable than this.
Can't disagree with that river route.
While this would be nice, I think I'd rather we just vassalize and then slowly absorb Arrow Lake, or at least their northern settlement.
Yeah, I'd rather not go wide, especially when we're so close to getting what we want locked in.
I had a question for the QM though. @Redium When it comes to resettling the Northlands, am I correct in assuming that the Staples producers they have will be affected somewhat by which settlement site we choose? As obviously each site is near a different biome which may affect how their hunters perform.
Fair point. Too much incognita to say for sure.
- Location
- USA
If you mean Arrow Lake, there's nothing that says we cannot take both I think, as they will still have their southern settlement.
But if I had to choose I would say debtors as once we capture their northern settlement, it would be much more advantageous to us if we simply used them to lock in what we have rather than vassalizing someone who will likely break away in short order.
Yeah, unless the QM clarifies a little on the map, we're basically doing guesswork for now.
Agreed. Hard to keep what we take there logistically. Hill would be good. Trails too
- Location
- USA
Yeah, considering we've built a hill using the debtors from our last war, I hope we can do the same here as I don't think Arrow Lake has anything we want technologically like with those breweries we now have access to.
I also hope the Frontier Leader chose to build trails as well as we desperately need to improve our soft caps.
- Location
- Somewhere
What about tech visibility and the land being unsuitable for animals? We expect the nomads to have carribou herds, putting their herds at the cave of stars, a pilgrimage site for outsiders, is wise?
I prefer this one. Why is 'widen fingers rift' here? The defence I have encountered is the Fingers is only interested in a new hill and temple, anything else (cause it isn't required in the solution), won't cause issues.
Plus this allows, once we make trails, a nice central unit to project power from. And keep track of the North from being taken by those in the west.
The Cave of Stars proper would be unsuited to herds due to being forest, however, if you look at the map within 2 tiles of the Cave, over the river, is open plains. The herds would be sited there naturally. You cannot park a Caribou herd in a settlement! They require large amounts of plains for grazing.
I'll elaborate on this in a bit. Repairing my pants.
It means that Crystal Lake will have two subordinate settlement to the Fingers' one, which will basically generate an incentive for the FIngers to slowly shift in favor of the Pearl Divers who're closer to them and more able to support them.
River Bend could just as easily become subordinate Finger. It is not closer to Crystal Lake than the Fingers it is in the middle.
What is the Fingers one subordinate settlement?
Got the position wrong on the map then, apologies, its really hard to make anything out on the phone size version. In that case strike out the rift widening. Not enough time left in the day to amend if I want to wake in time for work
However, given its a fart away from the Cave of Stars, the problem is instead that the site is kind of redundant if we want to use the Cave of Stars as a settlement. A standalone temple will grow one eventually when its on such a powerful holy site.
Based on all the minerals, is our whole civ on top of a dormant supervolcano?
Got delayed x.x
Logistical needs of each settlement:
-Cave of Stars
--Food: To the north is cold plains for herding, to the south is what looks like floodplains for agriculture and theres the whole river for fishing and aquaculture. Hunting in the light forest directly around the middle
--Materials: Light forest provides a supply of wood, and the river provides reasonably painless supply of clay.
--Herds: Northern plains for Caribou and mammoths. Southern plains might work out, but we can't see how large they are.
--Bulk Transport: Rivers
--Messaging: Already on the Fire Relay route. Shouldn't be onerous to add
--Infrastructure: Already built Temple on Natural Wonder. No Walls or Hill yet.
--Politics: Natural Wonder makes it a powerful center of government in the future. Bridges Crystal Lake to Fingers route
-River Bend
--Food: Lots of Water tiles, would be great for aquaculture. Direct contact with the northlands old stomping grounds, so no lack of land for grazing Caribou. Heavily forested however, so agriculture won't get far compared to hunting.
--Materials: Lots of clay from the river bend, lots of wood from the dense forest.
--Herds: Direct access to old Northland lands
--Bulk Transport: Rivers
--Messaging: Already on the Fire Relay route. Shouldn't be onerous to add.
--Infrastructure: None
--Politics: Bridges Crystal Lake to Fingers route.
-Old Summer Camp
--Food: Pretty much pure herding. This is a dead end food wise.
--Materials: Well theres oasis for clay. No wood of note though
--Herds: Its prime herding land
--Bulk Transport: Minor rivers only.
--Messaging: Mounted messengers on trails. No fire relay.
--Infrastructure: Nothing
--Politics: Cleaves closer to Fingers, giving the rift more mass.
-Pearl West
--Food: Has a small lake, a river, and plenty of forest for hunting in, as well as floodplains to the south. Herds occupy the northwest cold plains. Great place for large population growth.
--Materials: Lots of wood from dense forests,
--Herds: Herds occupy the northwest cold plains.
--Bulk Transport: River
--Messaging: Would require Fire Relay extension.
--Infrastructure: Nothing
--Politics: Cleaves closer to Fingers, giving the rift more mass.
-Northern Arrow Lake
--Food: We already know its agriculturally poor, though thats odd given that the map says they have a large lake. Something in the water? There might be usable farm/graze land to the east.
--Materials: They got a mine there. Bluestone I think, which should be a copper ore(if so it'd explain the crappy agriculture)
--Herds: Theres plains to the east, but I'm not sure if it's support caribou and mammoths well.
--Bulk Transport: Minor river
--Messaging: Would require Fire Relay extension
--Infrastructure: Mine. Need all our normal stuff.
--Politics: In theory it cleaves closer to Fingers, but looking at the geography it's likely going to have to be self sufficient without political moves. The hard part is that it'd have almost no contact with Crystal Lake. And a LOT of contact with Southern Arrow Lake. We're probably going to conquer them out of self defense at some point
Logistical needs of each settlement:
-Cave of Stars
--Food: To the north is cold plains for herding, to the south is what looks like floodplains for agriculture and theres the whole river for fishing and aquaculture. Hunting in the light forest directly around the middle
--Materials: Light forest provides a supply of wood, and the river provides reasonably painless supply of clay.
--Herds: Northern plains for Caribou and mammoths. Southern plains might work out, but we can't see how large they are.
--Bulk Transport: Rivers
--Messaging: Already on the Fire Relay route. Shouldn't be onerous to add
--Infrastructure: Already built Temple on Natural Wonder. No Walls or Hill yet.
--Politics: Natural Wonder makes it a powerful center of government in the future. Bridges Crystal Lake to Fingers route
-River Bend
--Food: Lots of Water tiles, would be great for aquaculture. Direct contact with the northlands old stomping grounds, so no lack of land for grazing Caribou. Heavily forested however, so agriculture won't get far compared to hunting.
--Materials: Lots of clay from the river bend, lots of wood from the dense forest.
--Herds: Direct access to old Northland lands
--Bulk Transport: Rivers
--Messaging: Already on the Fire Relay route. Shouldn't be onerous to add.
--Infrastructure: None
--Politics: Bridges Crystal Lake to Fingers route.
-Old Summer Camp
--Food: Pretty much pure herding. This is a dead end food wise.
--Materials: Well theres oasis for clay. No wood of note though
--Herds: Its prime herding land
--Bulk Transport: Minor rivers only.
--Messaging: Mounted messengers on trails. No fire relay.
--Infrastructure: Nothing
--Politics: Cleaves closer to Fingers, giving the rift more mass.
-Pearl West
--Food: Has a small lake, a river, and plenty of forest for hunting in, as well as floodplains to the south. Herds occupy the northwest cold plains. Great place for large population growth.
--Materials: Lots of wood from dense forests,
--Herds: Herds occupy the northwest cold plains.
--Bulk Transport: River
--Messaging: Would require Fire Relay extension.
--Infrastructure: Nothing
--Politics: Cleaves closer to Fingers, giving the rift more mass.
-Northern Arrow Lake
--Food: We already know its agriculturally poor, though thats odd given that the map says they have a large lake. Something in the water? There might be usable farm/graze land to the east.
--Materials: They got a mine there. Bluestone I think, which should be a copper ore(if so it'd explain the crappy agriculture)
--Herds: Theres plains to the east, but I'm not sure if it's support caribou and mammoths well.
--Bulk Transport: Minor river
--Messaging: Would require Fire Relay extension
--Infrastructure: Mine. Need all our normal stuff.
--Politics: In theory it cleaves closer to Fingers, but looking at the geography it's likely going to have to be self sufficient without political moves. The hard part is that it'd have almost no contact with Crystal Lake. And a LOT of contact with Southern Arrow Lake. We're probably going to conquer them out of self defense at some point
No. You don't know how many structures you have. Even I don't: each 'building' is just an arbitrary number that doesn't matter.
You do have farms and clay pits.
About half.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
A tiny deficit just means that major building projects are going to have issues; primarily ones based in the Fingers, but Crystal Lake would also be affected.
Building Charcoal Kilns saved you. It took you up to near equilibrium (but still a tiny deficit). If you haven't built two (with one of them in the Fingers) you would've been in trouble. The Temple would've taken more actions. A tiny deficit isn't usually too bad, anything above small starts to cause issues.
Probably. I'd have to update the formula to calculate it and I haven't yet. You could reasonably expect an increase in that neighbourhood.
Yes.
Yes. Be thankful you picked up Charcoal Kilns there.
Martial: Yes. Diplo: Nope.
You aren't sophisticated enough to tell how much of anything you have.
Trade Hubs are something that's coming to come up later, their honestly a sub-type of Natural Wonder. They don't give you as much as the Cave of Stars or Crystal Lake, but they effect how trade flows within a region but you're not large and sophisticated enough for that to become an issue yet. Trade Hub's will be more of a big deal in the Bronze Age. Controlling Trade Hubs can make you serious money since it means you get a cut of everyone else's trade.
You could use salt against the Pearl Divers and Island Makers. There's no real reason to piss them off at this point, yet, though. The Pearl Divers don't produce enough salt to make it worth the traders' time to transport it up to Hill Guard in order to trade it with the Peace Builders. It's just cheaper to sell it to the Island Makers or Pearl Divers instead of transporting it by canoe for a month.
Kilns reduce the Materials costs of existing buildings. They wouldn't increase the Soft Cap of Clay Pits at all. The two function in two different ways.
Yes.
Yes.
Probably not a good idea, unless you're willing to tear down Arrow Lake's wall and force them to never build another. If they maintain their walls, it's simply too easy for them to rebel again at some point in the future. Especially a point where you're weak. It would be much safer to expel them or take them as Debtors.
Picking up Arrow Lake's southern settlement is likely not going to happen for a variety of reasons.
Only if you stick them in Arrow Lake. That would reduce the number of Techs you can pick up since caribou can't live there.
Ding!
Well, at least Crystal Lake is. The area it's based on was actually an extinct supervolcano from Earth's early history. Yours is still extinct but instead of being from 2.6 billion years ago, it's only in the hundreds of millions of years old category. The actual location of Crystal Lake is the old caldera; when the lava receded, it turned primarily to quartz and amethyst leaving an enormous block of it. Over time, the caldera filled in with water and turned into a lake.
To clarify: everything you can see on the map is primordial forest. (Or lakes or ocean.) It's only at the Northlanders' most northern range that you get into tundra and, and even then, there is an extremely sparse covering of trees. The trees would only be ~5 feet tall and stick thin, but there are trees there.
Before Europeans came to North American, virtually everything was covered in forest. Caribou are simply one of those types of animals that doesn't care that you shouldn't be able to herd in a forest.
Another thing: Not!Canada's geography is best described as... kinda lumpy. You have areas where the topography is basically level: anything that's dark green in the map is basically flat. The light green represents endless, rolling hills. The hills generally aren't terribly big, but they're numerous; nearly stacked on top of one another. Every 100-300 meters will be another hill and another valley. Many of the lower 'valley's are filled with countless lakes or swamps with rivers flowing in between the hills. There's actually a lot more water and lakebeds present than I've indicated on the map; there are more lakes in your territory than humans. I can't show every one because virtually every tile has a number of lakes on it. The ones that are marked on the map are only the lakes large enough to be seen on a map with a 100 kilometer scale.
Arrow Lake isn't agriculturally poor, well not all of it; the area immediately around their lake is quite good. The mountain range immediately to the west of it (the brown-green splotch) and the hills to the east are poor agriculturally and that's a large part of their territory. The soil is generally fairly thin on any area that's the lighter shade of green on the map. The Not!Canadian Shield has very thin soil and innumerable exposed rock faces across most of it. It's one of the oldest volcanic mountain ranges in the world; so old, in fact, that it's been ground nearly flat by time. Much of the soil is also compacted too tightly for crops and is either boggy/swampy in nature or experiences permafrost at least part of the year.
Most of the land around you is extremely agriculturally poor. You need wild rice, herding, or arboriculture to make any use of it. The exceptions to that are the area's immediately around the not!Great Lakes. That area, the not!St. Lawrence/Great Lakes lowlands, is some of the better quality agricultural land in the world. You can expand beyond it, but the areas around the Great Lakes are at least 5-6 times more agriculturally productive.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
My thought is we could expand along the st Lawrence river valley and take control of it. Then use hill guard as a jumping point to colonize the great lakes.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My personal plan is to eventually expand down the St Lawrence River, then either push past the island makers or (if they fort up too heavily) go around them on land and negotiate for river access instead. Then we hammer through the Bitter-water tribe and wrest Niagara from their drunk, unworthy han-
I mean, claim their agricultural lands and lake access.
- Location
- USA
So in times of crises, Staples wise that is, we would be given the chance to decide whether or not to take back our food surplus or cut back in how much we give correct?
Just for clarification, as your first two answers kind of contradict, say we construct the Temple this turn in the Fingers and it is completed in the sub-turn, if the new settlement for the Northlands happens to be completed before the three turn lock in takes effect, and if said settlement is not the Cave of the Stars, will the Northlands new settlement affect the lock in timer, meaning we need to build another one there?
Good to know we picked the right combination of buildings then.
I'm guessing our choice of creating more craftsmen helped as well?
Gotcha, metalworking good.
I am now, and probably plan to add it to our other settlements considering how cheap it is in terms of actions.
Well a martial hero is pretty good for us.
Will he count in our raid against Arrow Lake this turn?
Do we know of any others nearby?
It sounds like we're an ancient Damascus or something.
Do we need to do anything to exploit the Trade Hub, such as are there any ways we could improve it?
Fair enough.
That's good to know. I guess we should make clay pits and trails next turn to fix that issue.
Hmmm, the fact that the settlement area near the Pearl Divers is fertile will probably be something we take into consideration next turn as it does make it more appealing now.
Could we both expel the current inhabitants by taking them all as debtors then burn the inside of the settlement to the ground?
Too far away from us?
That eliminates Arrow Lake's settlement from contention then.
So we're probably not going to mine out Crystal Lake anytime soon are we?
Not really the best terrain for organized open warfare it seems.
So we're going to reach a point where we will need to expand if we want to keep up it seems, as we can't exactly rely on the land immediately around us.
Which direction I wonder would be better for us...
Very cool!
Ah okay, remapping my mental image, but looks like the assessment doesn't change a lot.
Limestone geography?
Mmm, noted. I just got it from their needing to import food from their southern camp.
Put a settlement or trade post on it. Thats how the Fingers started.
How many debitors does arrow lake have now and can allow them to stay there and farm for us with us only moving the warriors of arrow lake away to our other settlements as there is already a stone wall and farmland there so getting that settlement up to our standards would be faster then starting a new one somewhere else.
- Location
- USA
Considering how the QM has worded his replies in regards to what happens to Arrow Lake after we defeat them, it seems like the only real options we have are to vassalize the northernmost settlement of Arrow Lake, expel the current residents, or take the residents as debtor.
The first option mentioned, of making them our vassals, already seems like a bad idea going on what the QM says as they won't be particularly loyal, and as soon as the chance comes up when we're either distracted or weak they are likely to rise up and rebel against us. So any investment we make there will just backfire on us.
The second option, expelling their residents also doesn't really do much for us either as while it gives us a site to potentially use as a settlement, I highly doubt the southern settlement will forget what we've done, especially as they will have all of their emaciated relatives living with them, probably making it so that they will start seeing vengeance as a viable option. While they may eventually face some strain from taking in the population of the northern settlement they will likely survive long enough to recover from this as they will still have numbers to. Meaning if we did set up a settlement at Arrow Lake like you're suggesting, it will likely become the frontlines for a new war with the southern settlement. We know the southern settlement can reach the northern one, it's how they've supported each other so far. The problem is for us, if we found a settlement in the former northern settlement it will likely be at the long end of our supply lines, relatively isolated from the rest of our civilization, and potentially easier to cut off as Arrow Lake will likely have a better concentration of forces in said area then we will be able to muster if a war kicks off again. So yeah, the option of settling Arrow Lake does not appeal to me.
For the third option, that one appeals to me most. Sure, taking them as debtors will likely stir up ideas again about how easier things are for us when we fight wars and get slaves to do our work for us. But so far we've managed to avoid that due to having so many buffers in place between viable targets. Taking debtors from the northern settlement does a number of things. It makes the recovery for the remnants of Arrow Lake harder as we will be denying them the productivity of almost half their population. It likely depopulates the northern settlement as we are taking them all with us, making re-establishing it for Arrow Lake a much more arduous prospect. Finally it gives us free labor to easily meet some of our current demands, such as that faction at the Fingers.
Considering how walls are already said to be standard for our settlements whenever we decide to construct them, I am not worried about taking awhile to found a new settlement. We're already getting a chance to found one already, and while Arrow Lake's northern settlement comes with a wall already, in terms of action economy that doesn't save us much work as those are already locked in for us anyway, while another settlement option, the Cave of the Stars, will help us lock in another key structure in the Temple.
Taking into account all of the options presented, unless something drastically changes in the next update, I think I am sure I will vote for taking debtors and the Cave of the Stars for the settlement option.
Besides, which, I'm not entirely sure how we will go about the situation in Arrow Lake considering how different it is from our previous victories and conquests. For example what do we do with the Indebted of Arrow Lake, their slaves who did all their farming? What of the debtors we take from the actual tribe members, the ones who were said to be emaciated even for their militia? That doesn't sound like people who will last long when put to forced labor, so I am hope we are smart enough with that.
Hopefully if things go well in the next sub-turn, we should be seeing our position solidify as we will likely further protect our core while gaining much in the terms or resources, technology, and a hero.
Edit:
@Redium Whatever happened to this action? Or is it defunct now with 2.0?
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20.1 Ember Cascade
[X] Plan Resettling Foundations
-[X] [Kin] Embrace them fully, once the firebrand Grand Shaman is dead. (Additional settlement founded for free, Northlands folds into the People.)
-[X] [Action] Create Craftsmen
-[X] [Action] Archaic Charcoal Kilns (Crystal Lake, The Fingers)
--[X] Double Down
-[X] [Action] Expand Fishing Fleets
-[X] [Admin] Raise Temple (The Fingers) 1/2
-[X] [Empowerment] War Chief (Raid: Arrow Lake)
-[X] [Empowerment] Headman of Fingers (Raise Temple: The Fingers 2/2)
-[X] [Empowerment] Frontier Leader (New Trails)
Counting up the marks on her tally clay, Luule kept coming up short. It wasn't much she was short in the grand scheme of things, but it was noticeable and it irritated her to be short at all. The demand for the new fuel had skyrocketed almost at the same pace as its production and the People produced a lot. Charcoal was better in virtually every way compared to wood; the fuel burned hotter, it was significantly lighter for the same volume, and it was far cleaner. Wood, when it burned, belched black smoke and soot that covered every open surface; charcoal did not have that drawback.
It seemed strange to Luule that half burning wood turned it into a fuel that was even better. She was sure, if she asked one of the Ember-Eyes, they could try to explain the intricate spiritual interactions, but it would be beyond her. That type of thinking had never made sense to her.
Instead, Luule liked the sight of people. Not talking to them per se — though she was not afraid of that — but in seeing them go about their lives. Watching young men haul wood, charcoal, and pots of food underneath the stern eye of their supervisors. The chatty and gossip of young mothers as they prepared the evening meal with one eye while the other was fixed on their rambunctious children. Seeing master craftsmen who could, in a single sigh of disappointment, reduce a cocksure apprentice to blubbering excuses. Listening to elders as the spoke around the fire, sharing the People's stories while instruments strained faintly in the background. Even the shaman, as they argued bitterly over how beast to appease the spirits and ensure good fortune, was of interest to Luule.
It still amused her to think how thankful the shaman had been at the widespread adoption of charcoal. The Temple of Fire and Ice that the Frost-Scarred had constructed was the single largest building in the Fingers and made extensive use of flame in order to convey the struggle of living warmth and deathly cold. During the summers, a fire constantly burned in an enormous stone basin set in the central chamber. The basin itself was enormous, carefully cut from a block of pure quartz large enough that it had required two rasbaska to work side by side in order to carry it.
Around that central chamber, several supplementary rooms were constructed. These, thankfully, stayed heated all year long for the benefit of visitors and apprentices, but the fully-fledged Frost-Scarred Shaman shunned those rooms. They instead preferred to live in the cold cellars dug into the earth beneath the temple. It was only during the winter when the great central brazier was extinguished and filled with ice and snow that the Frost-Scarred came out. They lived in the freezing central room, training their acolytes until the world warmed again in the spring when they would return to their cellars.
The central brazier was for sacrifices; food, clothing, trinkets, old tools, anything that signified personal struggle and the battle to overcome it was welcomed. The Frost-Scarred creed made a metaphorical shiver trace of Luule's spine. "We are all in pain, every day of our lives. Pain is weakness leaving the body; a sensation that is in passing. Though finite in life, sensations are to be enjoyed for they remind us. Join in our ecstasy." The wizened old shaman that told it to Luule lacked a nose and much of the flesh on his face was blackened. When he smiled, the few teeth he had remaining were grey and dead.
To a girl who had come to give up a childhood doll made of woven reeds, it was deeply unsettling. Even standing outside the temple, looking in the the Frost-Scarred inside, Luule could remember her feelings from that day.
Putting the thought out of her mind, Luule singled to one of her aides. She was no longer in the right set of mind to work today. She had fallen out of the zone, and to go back to counting stores would just leave her frustrated; disappearing supplies tended to have that effect. It was far better to work when thought and deed aligned, than to waste them in discord. The girls who had wormed their way into being her aids would know to fire the clay slates that she had just finished up and set them aside for storage. In the past, it was rarely worth keeping the clay tally slates for long, but Luule felt it necessary. She could resume exactly where she left off with the records preserved. Still, in those moments, Luule felt a little bit like a fraud; the Weeping Warrior had always known what to do and made the right decisions absent any records. Was it right to depend on them and force all those who came after her to do so when before they had never been necessary? Clay tablets quickly took up space; room that could be used to store people, animals, or even supplies.
The air outside was crisp and slowly cooling as Luule walked through the Fingers. It wasn't winter yet, but the First Frost had already come and gone. If she hadn't been busy for most of the morning, Luule was certain that she would've seen frost clinging to every surface. It was a decidedly lazy time of year; the harvest of fish, rice, and agriculture was complete. Everything had been preserved and stored. Only a few stragglers were left bringing wood to the colliers to ensure they'd have enough fuel to keep warm.
All that remained were the warriors fighting in the south. The fighting had been going on and off for as long as Luule could remember. It was never big, never grand, just... a kinsman becoming an empty place at the table during feast days. A distant friend or client displaying scars or moving with a pained stiffness that never seemed to leave them. Luule knew, exactly, how many people suffered but it was never as real as those moments.
Sitting down at the base of the outer wall, Luule sighed. Thinking dark thoughts was not going to help her mood. Glancing up, Luule had barely an instant to process before horror overwhelmed her. Stalking above her, just out of reach, was a large, whiskered face. Cougar, he mind supplied quickly. The large highland cats were rare, but not unheard of; dangerous beasts that even hunters rightly feared.
A scream had nearly worked its way out of Luule's throat when the cougar... bulged. Its face rippled, expanding outwards like a bubble and its mouth opened up into a great, gaping pit. Flesh crinkled, bone cracked and splintered, before the cougar deflated and its face fell, clattering on the bricks beneath it.
"Jeree," Luule hissed. She could see his smug, toothy grin staring back down. His tongue lolled out for a moment before snapping back behind his teeth with a click.
He grinned. "Was I missed?" The warrior stooped to pick up the face of the cougar he'd dropped. Luule wondered how she could have mistaken it at all for real fur and skin. It had teeth of ivory with soft, muted tones of brown and yellow for skin. Both dyes were unusual, but the first was common to traders from the Island Makers, and the second could be bartered from the Ember-Eyes. Mother-of-pearl stood out along the mask's jaw, mimicking the cougar's characteristic bright face. Even the eyes were clearly aquamarine dye, manufactured from lapis luzili for all their unmatched brilliance. It was a piece of art made from materials gathered from the People and all of their neighbours, yet it was still not fur.
"The accuracy of Lake of Arrows has left much to be desired," Luule said dismissively. Jeree gaped and clutched his chest in silent exageration. "Yes, I wound you."
Jeree tensed, throwing himself upwards with a powerful jump. His cloak spun out, framing him in a halo of woven leaves, that briefly blinded Luule. By the time he reappeared, Jeree was sitting beside her. Mask on, concealing what Luule was certain was an enormous grin. He reeled away, jumping to his feet and coming to rest, spine perfectly straight. The short warrior looked almost respectable.
"The war is done," he said simply. "The settlement of Arrow Lake has officially surrendered. Their other holding, South Reach, had propped up one of their own as Most Ancient. They've washed their hands of everything. If we don't push them, they'll leave us be."
"Arrow Lake surrendered?" Luule asked. It almost seemed unreal that the settlement had fallen. It had been nearly twenty-years of on-and-off raiding.
"Aye." Jeree shivered. "Did you ever receive training as a shaman, Greatness?" After Luule denied it, Jeree continued. "I did. I... I was a Star Shaman, for a while. At least, I was in training to be one." Reaching under his cloak of crinkled, fallen leaves, Jeree pulled out a small, ivory disk. On it was a simple, open six-pointed star; etched and burned directly into the material.
"You undertook the Rite of Dark Night," Luule said. It shocked her; only the most spiritually attuned attempted it. Even then, many died.
"I failed it," the small warrior said. "I lasted for half the night before the voices of the Heart got to me. I was begging, screaming, kicking at the Ivory Door, just to be let out. It was loud enough, I'm sure I could've woken the sleeping dead. If I had stayed, however, I would've died." He shrugged. "The Mysteries entombed in the Cave of Stars were too great for me. It wasn't my path, I was incompatible; I returned to my mother's tribe and became a Horned Rider. Their Mysteries were possible to me."
"I see," Luule lied. How did it relate to Arrow Lake's fall? Jeree laughed and Luule cursed. She had said that last bit out loud, again, hadn't she?
"We had formed up around Arrow Lake, just outside the walls. The defenders were lining up across from us for one last, glorious charge; they were finished. Many of them were starved enough I'm sure they'd had more than a few idle thoughts about eating each other. Just before the battle, the eldest of the Ember-Eyes asked permission to unleash their magic. It was... have you seen how they tend fire? How they can conjure it up by dripping water on tinder? They... they managed to take the fire into them, somehow. Within a moment, the eldest war-shaman conjured flame from nowhere and hurled it in a steak of fire. It flew straight and true, further than a hunting bow, but less than a war bow."
Jeree was silent. He shuddered, "The orbs of flame burst against the shields and bodies of Arrow Lake's remaining defenders. Sparks rained everywhere. Some of the projectiles lodged themselves within their shields or armour. They went down screaming, trying futilely to somehow put it out. The grass at their feat caught alight... they threw down their weapons after that. We managed to storm the open gate and take nearly everyone captive."
"How...? How did the Ember-Eyes master fire?"
"It's not my Mystery," Jeree said. "I can ride and sneak and wear the skin of a beast. Fire shouldn't be possible to control. It's not alive, right?"
"How do the others see the Ember-Eyes," Luule asked.
"They're exalted by everyone. What might have been a risky battle was instantly crushed with their power. It's foolishness to cross a shaman, but now, the Ember-Eyes? They're beyond that. Their word is close to holy writ."
Luule nodded. She would have to prepare for their return; things would change if that was the case. Based on the look Jeree was giving her, he knew it too. "Thank you for returning so swiftly," she said. "Are the others behind you?"
"No. Not yet. The warriors are uncertain what you want done now. Whether to push the war — which I do not recommend, by the way — where to take the captured Debtors, and how my people are going to be settled. Things are up in the air and there's a lot of moving parts. Whatever you decide, a bit of delay was necessary; Arrow Lake's people were so starved, they would not have survived the journey here."
"Why should we let the war lie? Now would be the time to continue the pressure, to break South Reach so that they don't become a threat."
"If we push them, South Reach is going to ask for help. The Black Scars are southwest of them; not extremely far. They'd almost certainly be willing to help for concessions in lapis luzili, hunting grounds, and other resources. If we let them sit, they could become a problem in the future, but if we push them, they will be a problem right now. One that would be difficult to deal with. Striking the Black Scars would be impossible."
"Now that victory's arrived, the only question is what to do with it," Luule said. "Rest and I'll have instructions for you in the morning."
What should be done with the People of Arrow Lake? (If their settlement is not maintained, it will be destroyed for defensive reasons.)
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but disperse all of Arrow Lake's population among the wider People. (+ Luxuries, + Crafts)
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of luxuries. (+ Luxuries, + Staples)
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
Where should the Northlands merge with the People?
[ ] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[ ] [North] Found their own settlement at Wide River, east of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials, interfer with Pearl Diver trade?)
[ ] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[ ] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[ ] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[ ] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
Continue to press the war with the remains of Arrow Lake (South Reach)?
[ ] [War] Yes.
[ ] [War] No.
AN: Vote is locked until tomorrow.
-[X] [Kin] Embrace them fully, once the firebrand Grand Shaman is dead. (Additional settlement founded for free, Northlands folds into the People.)
-[X] [Action] Create Craftsmen
-[X] [Action] Archaic Charcoal Kilns (Crystal Lake, The Fingers)
--[X] Double Down
-[X] [Action] Expand Fishing Fleets
-[X] [Admin] Raise Temple (The Fingers) 1/2
-[X] [Empowerment] War Chief (Raid: Arrow Lake)
-[X] [Empowerment] Headman of Fingers (Raise Temple: The Fingers 2/2)
-[X] [Empowerment] Frontier Leader (New Trails)
Counting up the marks on her tally clay, Luule kept coming up short. It wasn't much she was short in the grand scheme of things, but it was noticeable and it irritated her to be short at all. The demand for the new fuel had skyrocketed almost at the same pace as its production and the People produced a lot. Charcoal was better in virtually every way compared to wood; the fuel burned hotter, it was significantly lighter for the same volume, and it was far cleaner. Wood, when it burned, belched black smoke and soot that covered every open surface; charcoal did not have that drawback.
It seemed strange to Luule that half burning wood turned it into a fuel that was even better. She was sure, if she asked one of the Ember-Eyes, they could try to explain the intricate spiritual interactions, but it would be beyond her. That type of thinking had never made sense to her.
Instead, Luule liked the sight of people. Not talking to them per se — though she was not afraid of that — but in seeing them go about their lives. Watching young men haul wood, charcoal, and pots of food underneath the stern eye of their supervisors. The chatty and gossip of young mothers as they prepared the evening meal with one eye while the other was fixed on their rambunctious children. Seeing master craftsmen who could, in a single sigh of disappointment, reduce a cocksure apprentice to blubbering excuses. Listening to elders as the spoke around the fire, sharing the People's stories while instruments strained faintly in the background. Even the shaman, as they argued bitterly over how beast to appease the spirits and ensure good fortune, was of interest to Luule.
It still amused her to think how thankful the shaman had been at the widespread adoption of charcoal. The Temple of Fire and Ice that the Frost-Scarred had constructed was the single largest building in the Fingers and made extensive use of flame in order to convey the struggle of living warmth and deathly cold. During the summers, a fire constantly burned in an enormous stone basin set in the central chamber. The basin itself was enormous, carefully cut from a block of pure quartz large enough that it had required two rasbaska to work side by side in order to carry it.
Around that central chamber, several supplementary rooms were constructed. These, thankfully, stayed heated all year long for the benefit of visitors and apprentices, but the fully-fledged Frost-Scarred Shaman shunned those rooms. They instead preferred to live in the cold cellars dug into the earth beneath the temple. It was only during the winter when the great central brazier was extinguished and filled with ice and snow that the Frost-Scarred came out. They lived in the freezing central room, training their acolytes until the world warmed again in the spring when they would return to their cellars.
The central brazier was for sacrifices; food, clothing, trinkets, old tools, anything that signified personal struggle and the battle to overcome it was welcomed. The Frost-Scarred creed made a metaphorical shiver trace of Luule's spine. "We are all in pain, every day of our lives. Pain is weakness leaving the body; a sensation that is in passing. Though finite in life, sensations are to be enjoyed for they remind us. Join in our ecstasy." The wizened old shaman that told it to Luule lacked a nose and much of the flesh on his face was blackened. When he smiled, the few teeth he had remaining were grey and dead.
To a girl who had come to give up a childhood doll made of woven reeds, it was deeply unsettling. Even standing outside the temple, looking in the the Frost-Scarred inside, Luule could remember her feelings from that day.
Putting the thought out of her mind, Luule singled to one of her aides. She was no longer in the right set of mind to work today. She had fallen out of the zone, and to go back to counting stores would just leave her frustrated; disappearing supplies tended to have that effect. It was far better to work when thought and deed aligned, than to waste them in discord. The girls who had wormed their way into being her aids would know to fire the clay slates that she had just finished up and set them aside for storage. In the past, it was rarely worth keeping the clay tally slates for long, but Luule felt it necessary. She could resume exactly where she left off with the records preserved. Still, in those moments, Luule felt a little bit like a fraud; the Weeping Warrior had always known what to do and made the right decisions absent any records. Was it right to depend on them and force all those who came after her to do so when before they had never been necessary? Clay tablets quickly took up space; room that could be used to store people, animals, or even supplies.
The air outside was crisp and slowly cooling as Luule walked through the Fingers. It wasn't winter yet, but the First Frost had already come and gone. If she hadn't been busy for most of the morning, Luule was certain that she would've seen frost clinging to every surface. It was a decidedly lazy time of year; the harvest of fish, rice, and agriculture was complete. Everything had been preserved and stored. Only a few stragglers were left bringing wood to the colliers to ensure they'd have enough fuel to keep warm.
All that remained were the warriors fighting in the south. The fighting had been going on and off for as long as Luule could remember. It was never big, never grand, just... a kinsman becoming an empty place at the table during feast days. A distant friend or client displaying scars or moving with a pained stiffness that never seemed to leave them. Luule knew, exactly, how many people suffered but it was never as real as those moments.
Sitting down at the base of the outer wall, Luule sighed. Thinking dark thoughts was not going to help her mood. Glancing up, Luule had barely an instant to process before horror overwhelmed her. Stalking above her, just out of reach, was a large, whiskered face. Cougar, he mind supplied quickly. The large highland cats were rare, but not unheard of; dangerous beasts that even hunters rightly feared.
A scream had nearly worked its way out of Luule's throat when the cougar... bulged. Its face rippled, expanding outwards like a bubble and its mouth opened up into a great, gaping pit. Flesh crinkled, bone cracked and splintered, before the cougar deflated and its face fell, clattering on the bricks beneath it.
"Jeree," Luule hissed. She could see his smug, toothy grin staring back down. His tongue lolled out for a moment before snapping back behind his teeth with a click.
He grinned. "Was I missed?" The warrior stooped to pick up the face of the cougar he'd dropped. Luule wondered how she could have mistaken it at all for real fur and skin. It had teeth of ivory with soft, muted tones of brown and yellow for skin. Both dyes were unusual, but the first was common to traders from the Island Makers, and the second could be bartered from the Ember-Eyes. Mother-of-pearl stood out along the mask's jaw, mimicking the cougar's characteristic bright face. Even the eyes were clearly aquamarine dye, manufactured from lapis luzili for all their unmatched brilliance. It was a piece of art made from materials gathered from the People and all of their neighbours, yet it was still not fur.
"The accuracy of Lake of Arrows has left much to be desired," Luule said dismissively. Jeree gaped and clutched his chest in silent exageration. "Yes, I wound you."
Jeree tensed, throwing himself upwards with a powerful jump. His cloak spun out, framing him in a halo of woven leaves, that briefly blinded Luule. By the time he reappeared, Jeree was sitting beside her. Mask on, concealing what Luule was certain was an enormous grin. He reeled away, jumping to his feet and coming to rest, spine perfectly straight. The short warrior looked almost respectable.
"The war is done," he said simply. "The settlement of Arrow Lake has officially surrendered. Their other holding, South Reach, had propped up one of their own as Most Ancient. They've washed their hands of everything. If we don't push them, they'll leave us be."
"Arrow Lake surrendered?" Luule asked. It almost seemed unreal that the settlement had fallen. It had been nearly twenty-years of on-and-off raiding.
"Aye." Jeree shivered. "Did you ever receive training as a shaman, Greatness?" After Luule denied it, Jeree continued. "I did. I... I was a Star Shaman, for a while. At least, I was in training to be one." Reaching under his cloak of crinkled, fallen leaves, Jeree pulled out a small, ivory disk. On it was a simple, open six-pointed star; etched and burned directly into the material.
"You undertook the Rite of Dark Night," Luule said. It shocked her; only the most spiritually attuned attempted it. Even then, many died.
"I failed it," the small warrior said. "I lasted for half the night before the voices of the Heart got to me. I was begging, screaming, kicking at the Ivory Door, just to be let out. It was loud enough, I'm sure I could've woken the sleeping dead. If I had stayed, however, I would've died." He shrugged. "The Mysteries entombed in the Cave of Stars were too great for me. It wasn't my path, I was incompatible; I returned to my mother's tribe and became a Horned Rider. Their Mysteries were possible to me."
"I see," Luule lied. How did it relate to Arrow Lake's fall? Jeree laughed and Luule cursed. She had said that last bit out loud, again, hadn't she?
"We had formed up around Arrow Lake, just outside the walls. The defenders were lining up across from us for one last, glorious charge; they were finished. Many of them were starved enough I'm sure they'd had more than a few idle thoughts about eating each other. Just before the battle, the eldest of the Ember-Eyes asked permission to unleash their magic. It was... have you seen how they tend fire? How they can conjure it up by dripping water on tinder? They... they managed to take the fire into them, somehow. Within a moment, the eldest war-shaman conjured flame from nowhere and hurled it in a steak of fire. It flew straight and true, further than a hunting bow, but less than a war bow."
Jeree was silent. He shuddered, "The orbs of flame burst against the shields and bodies of Arrow Lake's remaining defenders. Sparks rained everywhere. Some of the projectiles lodged themselves within their shields or armour. They went down screaming, trying futilely to somehow put it out. The grass at their feat caught alight... they threw down their weapons after that. We managed to storm the open gate and take nearly everyone captive."
"How...? How did the Ember-Eyes master fire?"
"It's not my Mystery," Jeree said. "I can ride and sneak and wear the skin of a beast. Fire shouldn't be possible to control. It's not alive, right?"
"How do the others see the Ember-Eyes," Luule asked.
"They're exalted by everyone. What might have been a risky battle was instantly crushed with their power. It's foolishness to cross a shaman, but now, the Ember-Eyes? They're beyond that. Their word is close to holy writ."
Luule nodded. She would have to prepare for their return; things would change if that was the case. Based on the look Jeree was giving her, he knew it too. "Thank you for returning so swiftly," she said. "Are the others behind you?"
"No. Not yet. The warriors are uncertain what you want done now. Whether to push the war — which I do not recommend, by the way — where to take the captured Debtors, and how my people are going to be settled. Things are up in the air and there's a lot of moving parts. Whatever you decide, a bit of delay was necessary; Arrow Lake's people were so starved, they would not have survived the journey here."
"Why should we let the war lie? Now would be the time to continue the pressure, to break South Reach so that they don't become a threat."
"If we push them, South Reach is going to ask for help. The Black Scars are southwest of them; not extremely far. They'd almost certainly be willing to help for concessions in lapis luzili, hunting grounds, and other resources. If we let them sit, they could become a problem in the future, but if we push them, they will be a problem right now. One that would be difficult to deal with. Striking the Black Scars would be impossible."
"Now that victory's arrived, the only question is what to do with it," Luule said. "Rest and I'll have instructions for you in the morning."
What should be done with the People of Arrow Lake? (If their settlement is not maintained, it will be destroyed for defensive reasons.)
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but disperse all of Arrow Lake's population among the wider People. (+ Luxuries, + Crafts)
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of luxuries. (+ Luxuries, + Staples)
[ ] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
Where should the Northlands merge with the People?
[ ] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[ ] [North] Found their own settlement at Wide River, east of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials, interfer with Pearl Diver trade?)
[ ] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[ ] [North] Upgrade the Cave of Stars into a full fledged settlement. (+ Staples, + Luxuries)
[ ] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[ ] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
Continue to press the war with the remains of Arrow Lake (South Reach)?
[ ] [War] Yes.
[ ] [War] No.
AN: Vote is locked until tomorrow.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You hear that sound? That's the sound of overcapped religious authority. On that note, the front page is wrong; we should have 5 authority (4 temples*1.25 from our values). If we just had 4 this wouldn't be an overcap, due to our legacy.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Oh boy...we're probably going to need to do somthing about that, but finishing the fingers hill and the other mega projects might take more precedence!
Also we need more supplies...possibly get charcoal kilns at the other locations. But holy heck what did the ember eyes create to win THAT battle?!
Also we need more supplies...possibly get charcoal kilns at the other locations. But holy heck what did the ember eyes create to win THAT battle?!