From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
- Location
- USA
Well, considering that On Behalf of Future Generations is likely the value to win this vote, then I am hopeful in us avoiding monocropping, and essentially avoiding this problem. After all, our diverse sources of food have done us well so far.
Oh I get that, but if you look at the link I listed, the area which Temagami inhabits, which is due north of us, it also contains deposits of gold and silver as well. Having a good source for copper, from which we can later use for bronze is one thing, but having gold and silver mines is also something we should take advantage of, something early copper tools should help us make use of.
There's nothing we can really do about tin, as we don't know where exactly the QM will place the tin deposit in this area until either we find it or someone else does.
True. I just hope that our laws will still have some focus on justice of sorts even if the core message is decidedly not its main focus.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Cuts both ways.
It discourages moving away from multi-cropping, but the sheer output of monocropping may force us to monocrop if in a period without environmental stress, because its 'objectively' better to feed more of the people with the same effort and land.
Here's the funny thing.
One of our pigments is potentially a tin ore.
You might want to work harder on debating strategy.
Your approach of demonizing For Future Generations only causes those voting for it to dig their heels in, since it provokes a defensive reaction when your 'side' is attacked.
You want to sell the benefits of Balance of People....keeping in mind a fair number of voters on the matter are concerned about the effects of Balance of People coupled to a hereditary elite class causing friction.
There are good ways to resolve this(noblesse oblige being one), but it could potentially undermine one or the other.
- Location
- USA
I don't know particularly why you used said quote to make the point, but if it's not clear, I've already accepted the fact that I've lost said debate as its very unlikely anyone will switch back now, or a new person will vote soon. I'd rather let the QM finish the update and be done with this.
As for your advice? Considering the limited effectiveness I've seen in regards to time spent debating here, and in how few people actually do debate, I'm just not going to bother with it aside from asking questions for clarification from the QM.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I'm perfectly willing to switch, which would lead to a tie between them.
No one's tried to convince me, though.
- Location
- USA
While I am personally leery about getting a tie, as this would likely lead the QM to potentially have to rewrite any update he has written, I'm not going to avoid having a conversation or debate especially if someone is open to it.
The reason why I supported Balance of People and still do support it, is mostly due to the fact that it emphasizes fairness in our society, something that I feel is especially pertinent now that we are becoming both more expansive and more elite as we are adding dedicated warriors and nobility.
As has been mentioned before, as we are bound to end up with a noble elitist class, by having Balance of the People as our Core Message in our Canon of Laws, I think we might be able to instill something like Oblesse Oblige within our society. By making sure that our elites have a vested interest in making sure that those lower than them are treated well, even making it a symbol and way for them to prove their right to rule, at least among each other as a symbol of legitimacy, I think we will be able to make it so that we have more consistent stability.
For example, by preaching about and having the Balance of the People enshrined in law and in the cultural memory of our society, this acts as a social contract of sorts where even those at the bottom of society are able to tolerate momentary events that can cause instability, such as a weather change, because they believe that those at the top have an obligation to fix issues so that all are fair benefited. Making me believe that this might possibly give us more leeway in terms of the mechanics giving us a certain amount of time to resolve an issue before taking a stability hit.
Granted, I understand that this may make it so that we end up having to deal with problems we may not be able to resolve yet, but I feel that the portion of it that tries to enshrine fairness, and especially something that could lead to a principle of equal treatment under the law, is worth voting for.
That's my belief anyway.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Hm. That's fairly convincing. I'll vote for both, since you're concerned about ties; if someone else finds you similarly convincing, they can just vote for the one.
[X] [Core] On Behalf of Future Generations.
[X] [Core] Balance of People
- Location
- USA
Yeah, even if my preferred option doesn't win, I'm hopeful we can work on it eventually in the future, though I imagine the future will likely be many turns away.
19.2 Why?
[X] [Gov] The People's rulers should build ties within themselves so that they no longer fight for power. -> Government Upgrade: Ancient Aristocracy
[X] [Record] In metaphour, understood best through study and understanding.
[X] [Core] On Behalf of Future Generations. -> Value Level Up: Blood of my Brothers -> Familialism
[X] [Ask] Bring it, boy.
Aart was a decorated Bluestone Warrior of the Lake, grandson of the Most Ancient and grandnephew to two more. Four captures in war had been made to his credit and last he heard, had risen to the highest consideration for the honour of a third wife. Even the lowly Indebted he had taken from the Worker Clans had all been refined into exceptional specimens. They worked diligently, planting and harvesting fields of corn during the spring and summer months and dug through the Bluestone foothills during the summer. Each of them had earned the Rights of Half-Manhood and, in the distant future, one of them may earn the Full Rights of Man. He hoped their promotion to be soon; it was unheard of for the Captor to remain of equal rank with his Indebted, their promotion would be his.
When the war started against the Two-Soul Tribe, his ambition had been high. The Two-Souls lived north of the Lake, along a gently flowing river where it intersected with half a dozen other tributaries. The location was a good one, easily accessible to numerous different tribes from the frozen north to the southern seawater seas and from the rising to setting sun. They had grown rich and fat off the goods they could trade there; taking salt from the northeast, mica and pottery from the south, and the People's own bluestone.
Above it all, they sat there, waiting; decked out with fine, black sharpstone weapons. For their finery, however, it seemed that the Two-Souls were not as great warriors.
Eventually, the Meat Eaters of the north had gotten fed up with the Two-Souls taking their ivory in exchange for baubles. Aart wasn't sure what the incited the two to war beyond a perfidious murder, but it prompted a vicious cycle of destruction. Aart had only heard stories about that time, but it sounded as if the Meat Eaters had gone mad. Their insanity had granted them strength, however, and they ended up prevailing over the The Two-Souls. The Meat Eaters took slaves from their defeated enemies; hunters, fishermen, gatherers, and numerous other professions.
In the following years, they wisely kept the Two-Souls numbers culled. Every time the People's traders visited the Two-Souls at Riversmeet, they showed fewer and fewer warriors. Their young men were lost or taken away while their weak and their women were allowed to live on. The Most Ancient said that it reminded him of how the People kept the Worker Clans culled of threats. There were always individuals willing to pick up spears and stone with black murder in their minds, but they were few. Warriors needed someone to guide them and encourage them to war. A shining exemplar.
It was with that full confidence that the Most Ancient had ordered his warriors to exert their power over the Two-Souls. The weaker half of the Elder Council demanded an reason for the attack, but a reason was rapidly found. The Two-Souls had become so weak that they were forced to pay off the Worker Clans in food and other plunder. Sheltering and offering succor to the enemies of the People were a just cause for war that even the most cowardly of Elders could deny.
All the spirits under the dome of the sky had shown their favour to the People as they always did. Aart and his brothers of war managed to reap a fantastic toll on the enemy! If anything, the war had gone even further in their father than the one against the Worker Clans. Everything could have gone right, did! The Two-Souls didn't have enough warriors to really contest their raiders; farms and outposts burned, their men slaughtered while women and children were efficiently carried off. The river that led back to the Lake made it nearly trivial to move loot and Indebted back home.
Why had they not done this before, Aart wondered? Fighting the Two-Souls was even easier than fighting the Worker Clans! With them, war parties had to march up and down the narrow passes they called home. At times, the trails narrowed enough that it was necessary to scramble over broken stones. What should have been a brief, easy journey in any other terrain took up half a day!
The only advantage of fighting in the mountains was that it trapped the Worker Clans as much as it hindered the People. Once the clans were defeated, they couldn't flee and everything was ripe for the taking. The rhythm was different with the Two-Souls; there was more maneuvering, running back and forth, posturing, compared to the Worker Clans. Violence was risky. Even a simple injury could mean death if wound-rot set in. With them, violence was explosive; hours trekking through the forest ended in an ambush and only an instant of combat. If an ambush wasn't possible, or one side failed to bring overwhelming force, retreat was inevitable. If after some posturing from the young and hot headed.
Regardless of the strange style of war, the first few years of the war brought a bounty to the People that Aart had never possible imagined. Salt and sugar, once rare commodities were present at every meal. Blackened sharpstone, once so rare that only a handful of the People's best could use it, suddenly became so common that it was used as jewelry. That also ignored the shear breadth of baubles that the haughty Two-Souls constantly adorned themselves with.
Aart exalted in glory. Until, suddenly he couldn't.
The Antlered One arrived.
Aart never saw his face, but the Antlered was old and weathered; most of his hair had gone white and his skin was stretched taught across spotted flesh. Despite his age, the Antlered One he bore a club at his side, one that was carved in detail and studded with numerous sharpstone shards. Despite his age, he was power incarnate.
Whenever one of Aart's kinsmen went up against the Antlered One, they died. Their corpses would sometimes be found, days later and savaged by beasts. Hounds constantly stalked through the woods and Aart found it almost impossible to avoid them. They seemed to have a prenatural sense, something that would let them track the People's warriors wherever they traveled. It seemed that only time and torrents of rain would prevent them from being tracked.
That first year after the Antlered One arrived was the worst of Aart's life. When the snows had finally fallen that year, it was like a great weight had been lifted from his shoulders. It meant rest and relaxation. A chance for him to see and enjoy his wives for the first time in several moons.
It meant he had scarce half a moon before the demons arrived.
The creatures looked like men, but they were clearly anything but. More likely they were something else that the Two-Souls had bargained with. A great spirit in the Antlered One, and countless hungry ghosts for the demons. Aart had killed one, by some miracle. A frantic fight in the darkening twilight; a spear hurled in panic, and the creature had dropped. After Aart's allies fended off the other demons, he rolled his kill over to reclaim the remains of his spear and Aart was horrified by what he saw. The creature looked human, but it had no nose; its left hand had three fingers, its right four. Around the demon's neck was a set of grisly trophies; ears, cut from what Aart were sure were his kinsmen. Neither did it bleed when Aart pulled his spear from its body. There was blood on the spear point, but it was congealed. Thick and sticky; it was almost clotted.
When spring rolled around again, the Antlered One and his host of beasts returned. It was an unrelenting style of assault, one that the People were unused to. Hunger started to slowly settle in as the Indebted were unable to return to their farms for fear of being taken. This was compounded with the fact that each of the People's warriors were also hunters; a warrior needed to show their ability to kill and their resourcefulness to be a warrior at all. They didn't hunt enough to fully cover their own needs, but the supplement was a necessary part of their diets.
If Aart had to explain what was going on, it was that his People were slowly being suffocated. They could still farm relatively unmolested in the south, far beyond the Lake, but that meant transporting meat, grain, and other foodstuffs to the north. Those transports were not invulnerable; well protected, perhaps, but not invulnerable. A single canoe being sunk or hijacked meant that a hundred people would go hungry for several days. A caravan lost meant that the entire northern settlement wouldn't be able to eat.
Meat also was becoming a scarce commodity. The warriors could no longer go out to hunt in the north safely and going to war with the Two-Souls severed their supply of salt and sugar. Several of those who had become Indebted knew the secret of making both and neither was something that could be manufactured where the People were. Salt needed a special type of water and sugar needed a special type of tree. Neither were available, the Indebted had said, regardless of how much pressure was applied. Smoking and drying were still options for preservation, but with the Two-Souls turning the forests around the People's home into charnel houses, it was another unreliable one. Going out for an armful of firewood meant taking your life into your own hands.
It frustrated Aart, seeing his friends and family suffer by inches. Seeing his wives go hungry while his children slowly died. There was nothing that he could do except go out and ward off the enemy, killing them on rare occasions. Hoping against hope that the Two-Souls would finally run out of warriors before they finished suffocating the People.
Distracted, Aart didn't see the yellow eyes shining in the underbrush. He heard the brief whistle, but something heavy hit him, stunning him and driving him to the ground. There was a flash of white and then pain everywhere.
Something broke.
(...)
Priit huffed, ordering his Fangs to retreat without words. Their obedience was absolute and they spat out the bloody flesh that had been in their mouths. All around him, the others in his war party were finishing off their own kills or chasing the enemy fleeing into the woods. Howls started to pick up from all around them, announcing the People's presence properly.
"String up the corpses," he said, "So that their kin know to find them." It was both a message and a mercy. The tribe of Arrow Lake would know their kin were dead, but they would have bodies to bury properly. Priit didn't know what it was; what he intended it to be. "Likely both," he sighed bitterly.
What could he do? As it sat, the People were strangling Arrow Lake, burning their fields and forcing the hunters and fishers to remain close to home. It was a slow war, but what else could be done? Storming the walls around their settlement would be nearly impossible. The People would sooner paint the walls red with their own blood than breach good, fired clay.
The warriors of Arrow Lake had met surprising success in the first few years of the war. They had actually been out maneuvering the People... somehow. It hadn't lasted once Priit finally took the field, but the victory he brought tasted like ashes. No one from Arrow Lake could be considered Priit's equal, even in his old age; they had gotten by on pure luck.
It was dangerous for someone his age to take the field, Priit knew. Men far, far younger than him had called it quits to raise and train their grandchildren. He should've been the one to raise and train his grandchildren. Not like he was now, in tree-covered hollows, hiding from enemy patrols, but at home in front of the hearth. He had done that at first, entrusting the war to younger men, providing them only with advice as it was necessary. Allowing them to learn and to fail and to die in some cases. Priit wasn't going to live forever; Kaspar-In-Flesh had not, Aeva had not.
It wasn't to be, though.
The People had needed him; too many were dying at the hands of Arrow Lake due to their miraculous luck. Widows and orphaned children had come to him, tears in their eyes. They had sat on their knees and begged Priit for his intervention, to save their sons and husbands.
And so he had obliged.
Donning the great antlered war-mask and picking up his personal blacksword for the first time in what must have been ten long and peaceful years. His dogs had been happy for the exercise, to run alongside him and kiss the wind between tree and root. Even as it made Priit's inside's curdle.
Was this what Aeva had felt? Was this the reason she cling to power, even to the point where she was dying?
It made sense. A twisted horrible sense. The spirits sent their tests, always pushing to see where the People would break. It was necessary, but...
In the end, as Priit lived out his last days covered in blood, slaughtering men and women a quarter of his age. He died a death that could not be fought and felt only a single emotion.
[ ] [End] Regret
[ ] [End] Bitterness
[ ] [End] Apathy
[ ] [End] Anger
[ ] [End] Resignation
What should the People try to defeat Arrow Lake in war?
[ ] [War] Try and assault the walls of their settlement directly.
[ ] [War] Continue to strangle Arrow Lake's food supply.
[ ] [War] Try and divide Arrow Lake's two settlements so they can be conquered piecemeal.
[ ] [War] Invite the Mountain Clans to settle and dig into Arrow Lake's territory.
AN: Voting is in moratorium until tomorrow morning. Alongside the changes to the resource system, I'm also going to implement a few changes to Research and Values. Research is just going to explicitly quantify how close you are to certain major developments. For Values, I'm just going to abstract the names since coming up with unique names is very hard.
The Law vote nearly being a tie will come up.
[X] [Record] In metaphour, understood best through study and understanding.
[X] [Core] On Behalf of Future Generations. -> Value Level Up: Blood of my Brothers -> Familialism
[X] [Ask] Bring it, boy.
Aart was a decorated Bluestone Warrior of the Lake, grandson of the Most Ancient and grandnephew to two more. Four captures in war had been made to his credit and last he heard, had risen to the highest consideration for the honour of a third wife. Even the lowly Indebted he had taken from the Worker Clans had all been refined into exceptional specimens. They worked diligently, planting and harvesting fields of corn during the spring and summer months and dug through the Bluestone foothills during the summer. Each of them had earned the Rights of Half-Manhood and, in the distant future, one of them may earn the Full Rights of Man. He hoped their promotion to be soon; it was unheard of for the Captor to remain of equal rank with his Indebted, their promotion would be his.
When the war started against the Two-Soul Tribe, his ambition had been high. The Two-Souls lived north of the Lake, along a gently flowing river where it intersected with half a dozen other tributaries. The location was a good one, easily accessible to numerous different tribes from the frozen north to the southern seawater seas and from the rising to setting sun. They had grown rich and fat off the goods they could trade there; taking salt from the northeast, mica and pottery from the south, and the People's own bluestone.
Above it all, they sat there, waiting; decked out with fine, black sharpstone weapons. For their finery, however, it seemed that the Two-Souls were not as great warriors.
Eventually, the Meat Eaters of the north had gotten fed up with the Two-Souls taking their ivory in exchange for baubles. Aart wasn't sure what the incited the two to war beyond a perfidious murder, but it prompted a vicious cycle of destruction. Aart had only heard stories about that time, but it sounded as if the Meat Eaters had gone mad. Their insanity had granted them strength, however, and they ended up prevailing over the The Two-Souls. The Meat Eaters took slaves from their defeated enemies; hunters, fishermen, gatherers, and numerous other professions.
In the following years, they wisely kept the Two-Souls numbers culled. Every time the People's traders visited the Two-Souls at Riversmeet, they showed fewer and fewer warriors. Their young men were lost or taken away while their weak and their women were allowed to live on. The Most Ancient said that it reminded him of how the People kept the Worker Clans culled of threats. There were always individuals willing to pick up spears and stone with black murder in their minds, but they were few. Warriors needed someone to guide them and encourage them to war. A shining exemplar.
It was with that full confidence that the Most Ancient had ordered his warriors to exert their power over the Two-Souls. The weaker half of the Elder Council demanded an reason for the attack, but a reason was rapidly found. The Two-Souls had become so weak that they were forced to pay off the Worker Clans in food and other plunder. Sheltering and offering succor to the enemies of the People were a just cause for war that even the most cowardly of Elders could deny.
All the spirits under the dome of the sky had shown their favour to the People as they always did. Aart and his brothers of war managed to reap a fantastic toll on the enemy! If anything, the war had gone even further in their father than the one against the Worker Clans. Everything could have gone right, did! The Two-Souls didn't have enough warriors to really contest their raiders; farms and outposts burned, their men slaughtered while women and children were efficiently carried off. The river that led back to the Lake made it nearly trivial to move loot and Indebted back home.
Why had they not done this before, Aart wondered? Fighting the Two-Souls was even easier than fighting the Worker Clans! With them, war parties had to march up and down the narrow passes they called home. At times, the trails narrowed enough that it was necessary to scramble over broken stones. What should have been a brief, easy journey in any other terrain took up half a day!
The only advantage of fighting in the mountains was that it trapped the Worker Clans as much as it hindered the People. Once the clans were defeated, they couldn't flee and everything was ripe for the taking. The rhythm was different with the Two-Souls; there was more maneuvering, running back and forth, posturing, compared to the Worker Clans. Violence was risky. Even a simple injury could mean death if wound-rot set in. With them, violence was explosive; hours trekking through the forest ended in an ambush and only an instant of combat. If an ambush wasn't possible, or one side failed to bring overwhelming force, retreat was inevitable. If after some posturing from the young and hot headed.
Regardless of the strange style of war, the first few years of the war brought a bounty to the People that Aart had never possible imagined. Salt and sugar, once rare commodities were present at every meal. Blackened sharpstone, once so rare that only a handful of the People's best could use it, suddenly became so common that it was used as jewelry. That also ignored the shear breadth of baubles that the haughty Two-Souls constantly adorned themselves with.
Aart exalted in glory. Until, suddenly he couldn't.
The Antlered One arrived.
Aart never saw his face, but the Antlered was old and weathered; most of his hair had gone white and his skin was stretched taught across spotted flesh. Despite his age, the Antlered One he bore a club at his side, one that was carved in detail and studded with numerous sharpstone shards. Despite his age, he was power incarnate.
Whenever one of Aart's kinsmen went up against the Antlered One, they died. Their corpses would sometimes be found, days later and savaged by beasts. Hounds constantly stalked through the woods and Aart found it almost impossible to avoid them. They seemed to have a prenatural sense, something that would let them track the People's warriors wherever they traveled. It seemed that only time and torrents of rain would prevent them from being tracked.
That first year after the Antlered One arrived was the worst of Aart's life. When the snows had finally fallen that year, it was like a great weight had been lifted from his shoulders. It meant rest and relaxation. A chance for him to see and enjoy his wives for the first time in several moons.
It meant he had scarce half a moon before the demons arrived.
The creatures looked like men, but they were clearly anything but. More likely they were something else that the Two-Souls had bargained with. A great spirit in the Antlered One, and countless hungry ghosts for the demons. Aart had killed one, by some miracle. A frantic fight in the darkening twilight; a spear hurled in panic, and the creature had dropped. After Aart's allies fended off the other demons, he rolled his kill over to reclaim the remains of his spear and Aart was horrified by what he saw. The creature looked human, but it had no nose; its left hand had three fingers, its right four. Around the demon's neck was a set of grisly trophies; ears, cut from what Aart were sure were his kinsmen. Neither did it bleed when Aart pulled his spear from its body. There was blood on the spear point, but it was congealed. Thick and sticky; it was almost clotted.
When spring rolled around again, the Antlered One and his host of beasts returned. It was an unrelenting style of assault, one that the People were unused to. Hunger started to slowly settle in as the Indebted were unable to return to their farms for fear of being taken. This was compounded with the fact that each of the People's warriors were also hunters; a warrior needed to show their ability to kill and their resourcefulness to be a warrior at all. They didn't hunt enough to fully cover their own needs, but the supplement was a necessary part of their diets.
If Aart had to explain what was going on, it was that his People were slowly being suffocated. They could still farm relatively unmolested in the south, far beyond the Lake, but that meant transporting meat, grain, and other foodstuffs to the north. Those transports were not invulnerable; well protected, perhaps, but not invulnerable. A single canoe being sunk or hijacked meant that a hundred people would go hungry for several days. A caravan lost meant that the entire northern settlement wouldn't be able to eat.
Meat also was becoming a scarce commodity. The warriors could no longer go out to hunt in the north safely and going to war with the Two-Souls severed their supply of salt and sugar. Several of those who had become Indebted knew the secret of making both and neither was something that could be manufactured where the People were. Salt needed a special type of water and sugar needed a special type of tree. Neither were available, the Indebted had said, regardless of how much pressure was applied. Smoking and drying were still options for preservation, but with the Two-Souls turning the forests around the People's home into charnel houses, it was another unreliable one. Going out for an armful of firewood meant taking your life into your own hands.
It frustrated Aart, seeing his friends and family suffer by inches. Seeing his wives go hungry while his children slowly died. There was nothing that he could do except go out and ward off the enemy, killing them on rare occasions. Hoping against hope that the Two-Souls would finally run out of warriors before they finished suffocating the People.
Distracted, Aart didn't see the yellow eyes shining in the underbrush. He heard the brief whistle, but something heavy hit him, stunning him and driving him to the ground. There was a flash of white and then pain everywhere.
Something broke.
(...)
Priit huffed, ordering his Fangs to retreat without words. Their obedience was absolute and they spat out the bloody flesh that had been in their mouths. All around him, the others in his war party were finishing off their own kills or chasing the enemy fleeing into the woods. Howls started to pick up from all around them, announcing the People's presence properly.
"String up the corpses," he said, "So that their kin know to find them." It was both a message and a mercy. The tribe of Arrow Lake would know their kin were dead, but they would have bodies to bury properly. Priit didn't know what it was; what he intended it to be. "Likely both," he sighed bitterly.
What could he do? As it sat, the People were strangling Arrow Lake, burning their fields and forcing the hunters and fishers to remain close to home. It was a slow war, but what else could be done? Storming the walls around their settlement would be nearly impossible. The People would sooner paint the walls red with their own blood than breach good, fired clay.
The warriors of Arrow Lake had met surprising success in the first few years of the war. They had actually been out maneuvering the People... somehow. It hadn't lasted once Priit finally took the field, but the victory he brought tasted like ashes. No one from Arrow Lake could be considered Priit's equal, even in his old age; they had gotten by on pure luck.
It was dangerous for someone his age to take the field, Priit knew. Men far, far younger than him had called it quits to raise and train their grandchildren. He should've been the one to raise and train his grandchildren. Not like he was now, in tree-covered hollows, hiding from enemy patrols, but at home in front of the hearth. He had done that at first, entrusting the war to younger men, providing them only with advice as it was necessary. Allowing them to learn and to fail and to die in some cases. Priit wasn't going to live forever; Kaspar-In-Flesh had not, Aeva had not.
It wasn't to be, though.
The People had needed him; too many were dying at the hands of Arrow Lake due to their miraculous luck. Widows and orphaned children had come to him, tears in their eyes. They had sat on their knees and begged Priit for his intervention, to save their sons and husbands.
And so he had obliged.
Donning the great antlered war-mask and picking up his personal blacksword for the first time in what must have been ten long and peaceful years. His dogs had been happy for the exercise, to run alongside him and kiss the wind between tree and root. Even as it made Priit's inside's curdle.
Was this what Aeva had felt? Was this the reason she cling to power, even to the point where she was dying?
It made sense. A twisted horrible sense. The spirits sent their tests, always pushing to see where the People would break. It was necessary, but...
In the end, as Priit lived out his last days covered in blood, slaughtering men and women a quarter of his age. He died a death that could not be fought and felt only a single emotion.
[ ] [End] Regret
[ ] [End] Bitterness
[ ] [End] Apathy
[ ] [End] Anger
[ ] [End] Resignation
What should the People try to defeat Arrow Lake in war?
[ ] [War] Try and assault the walls of their settlement directly.
[ ] [War] Continue to strangle Arrow Lake's food supply.
[ ] [War] Try and divide Arrow Lake's two settlements so they can be conquered piecemeal.
[ ] [War] Invite the Mountain Clans to settle and dig into Arrow Lake's territory.
AN: Voting is in moratorium until tomorrow morning. Alongside the changes to the resource system, I'm also going to implement a few changes to Research and Values. Research is just going to explicitly quantify how close you are to certain major developments. For Values, I'm just going to abstract the names since coming up with unique names is very hard.
The Law vote nearly being a tie will come up.
- Location
- Somewhere
We won't do that. We don't want the Mountain Clans to 'forget' our generosity years later. The idea that we can't make long term friends because those long term friends will always turn on us eventually (especially in the stone age) is the excuse we use to strangle our potential friendships in the crib.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
hmmm separate the two settlements, or continue to starve them to a painfully slow death...I strongly suspect that once we strangle them they will come to regret trying anything with us...
[ ] [End] Resignation
[ ] [War] Continue to strangle Arrow Lake's food supply.
[ ] [End] Resignation
[ ] [War] Continue to strangle Arrow Lake's food supply.
- Location
- USA
Well...I'm glad we managed to train up our warriors this turn as it seems we've taken another beating as it seems Arrow Lake's luck actually lived up to its billing. They're still losing but it seems like it cost us some.
Anyways, in terms of the vote on Priit's state of mind, none of the options are particularly good.
Regret is not something I think Priit dying with, something he will likely emote in his last days for everyone else to see, is likely to be helpful. Furthermore, I do not think Priit has anything to feel regretful about. He lived a good life, and accomplished good things. To die in this war against enemies that wanted to enslave kith and kin is not something that he should bad about. There was nothing he could do about this war, he did the only sensible thing he could. Feeling regret here could affect the morale of the men, and that is not something we want to do especially as it states outright that he is going to die, with a morale hit to come.
Similar to the above, an emotion like bitterness is likely something that will be transmitted and known to the other warriors around him. While he can rightfully feel bitter about the current situation, I don't think it would help us much for our men to him that way.
Apathy...is a curious choice. Does apathy here mean apathy in general or in this situation @Redium ? Either way, when it comes to apathy, it could mean two things for me. In one instance his apathy could register as Priit becoming a stone cold killing machine, where he feels nothing about butchering his foes mercilessly. If he feels apathetic in this case, maybe he does not simply care what happens in his names. Granted, his stringing up of the corpses would be seen as obscene now, but imagine if worse takes place due to his apathy or lack of concern. Then again, his apathy may make him more unlikely to fall to his emotions and do something stupid, not that I think he would. The other thing this could mean is that he is apathetic about life in general and doesn't fight with any care. I hope this is not the case, but I can't entirely be sure.
I don't blame Priit for being apathetic here. For all that he gathers he had been doing good, living a good life, until the spirits came down to shit upon him and his situation, engulfing him in bloodshed and war near the end of his life. So he would right to feel that the life is cruel and be apathetic about it.
Anger, while a bad emotion, seems like one of the better ones of this bunch. He has a right to be angry here. Here he was minding his own business, trying to do good by his own people, setting up reforms, raising his grandchildren, when suddenly these people he thought were allies come waltzing in demanding slaves be sent to them or face war. What else is he to feel about an enemy threatening kith and kin, giving him a choice between condemning those of his own, or sending more men into hated war? Anger, unlike the other emotions here, will likely be something that emboldens the rest of the warriors while he fights. Anger is an emotion that will be seen, and that will likely spread among the rest of the warriors. For not only were their fellow brothers in arms slain, but their women and children taken as slaves as well. Even as he dies I do not doubt that the warriors fighting with him will say that he died with anger in his veins, anger at Arrow Lake. Unlike some of the others that could potentially debuff morale, this will likely enhance it.
However, there is also the chance that in the aftermath of his death, Priit's warriors will fight even harder and be more merciless to Arrow Lake when they win, which may lead to excesses. It also has the potential of those fighting to make mistakes due to being too emotional.
Yet, when compared to the others, this does not seem as bad.
Resignation, something that sounds like fatalism to me, is likely not a good feeling for him to project for all to see. Similar to the other emotions described here, resignation makes it seem like he is passively accepting events, meaning to me that he won't fight as hard as he is resigned to his fate. That is not something I think the other warriors should be subjected to, for if they believe that, then they likely will not fight as hard, and become even more superstitious. If he dies like that, and that feeling is spread around, I think it might be more likely for the warriors around him to break as he was the symbol that things were doing alright.
Nope, as the update has said, we will bathe the walls in our own blood before we succeed. We might innovate a way to success, but I highly doubt it, especially with Priit dying.
This is working so far, and with our numbers and the momentum of the war, this is something we can easily do. It might take a long time but a war of attrition is possible and one we can easily win.
Uhhh, not sure how we would do this, but it seems rather complicated, and the only way we could do this is by concentrating our warriors near the south, thus weakening the north. Not entirely sound strategy, as while this would allow us to win decisively, it is risky as well. @Redium Some clarifications on tactics please?
No. Once we do this, we lose any control over the Mountain Clans. Plus we are just kicking the can down the road with them.
Anyways, in terms of the vote on Priit's state of mind, none of the options are particularly good.
Regret is not something I think Priit dying with, something he will likely emote in his last days for everyone else to see, is likely to be helpful. Furthermore, I do not think Priit has anything to feel regretful about. He lived a good life, and accomplished good things. To die in this war against enemies that wanted to enslave kith and kin is not something that he should bad about. There was nothing he could do about this war, he did the only sensible thing he could. Feeling regret here could affect the morale of the men, and that is not something we want to do especially as it states outright that he is going to die, with a morale hit to come.
Similar to the above, an emotion like bitterness is likely something that will be transmitted and known to the other warriors around him. While he can rightfully feel bitter about the current situation, I don't think it would help us much for our men to him that way.
Apathy...is a curious choice. Does apathy here mean apathy in general or in this situation @Redium ? Either way, when it comes to apathy, it could mean two things for me. In one instance his apathy could register as Priit becoming a stone cold killing machine, where he feels nothing about butchering his foes mercilessly. If he feels apathetic in this case, maybe he does not simply care what happens in his names. Granted, his stringing up of the corpses would be seen as obscene now, but imagine if worse takes place due to his apathy or lack of concern. Then again, his apathy may make him more unlikely to fall to his emotions and do something stupid, not that I think he would. The other thing this could mean is that he is apathetic about life in general and doesn't fight with any care. I hope this is not the case, but I can't entirely be sure.
I don't blame Priit for being apathetic here. For all that he gathers he had been doing good, living a good life, until the spirits came down to shit upon him and his situation, engulfing him in bloodshed and war near the end of his life. So he would right to feel that the life is cruel and be apathetic about it.
Anger, while a bad emotion, seems like one of the better ones of this bunch. He has a right to be angry here. Here he was minding his own business, trying to do good by his own people, setting up reforms, raising his grandchildren, when suddenly these people he thought were allies come waltzing in demanding slaves be sent to them or face war. What else is he to feel about an enemy threatening kith and kin, giving him a choice between condemning those of his own, or sending more men into hated war? Anger, unlike the other emotions here, will likely be something that emboldens the rest of the warriors while he fights. Anger is an emotion that will be seen, and that will likely spread among the rest of the warriors. For not only were their fellow brothers in arms slain, but their women and children taken as slaves as well. Even as he dies I do not doubt that the warriors fighting with him will say that he died with anger in his veins, anger at Arrow Lake. Unlike some of the others that could potentially debuff morale, this will likely enhance it.
However, there is also the chance that in the aftermath of his death, Priit's warriors will fight even harder and be more merciless to Arrow Lake when they win, which may lead to excesses. It also has the potential of those fighting to make mistakes due to being too emotional.
Yet, when compared to the others, this does not seem as bad.
Resignation, something that sounds like fatalism to me, is likely not a good feeling for him to project for all to see. Similar to the other emotions described here, resignation makes it seem like he is passively accepting events, meaning to me that he won't fight as hard as he is resigned to his fate. That is not something I think the other warriors should be subjected to, for if they believe that, then they likely will not fight as hard, and become even more superstitious. If he dies like that, and that feeling is spread around, I think it might be more likely for the warriors around him to break as he was the symbol that things were doing alright.
Nope, as the update has said, we will bathe the walls in our own blood before we succeed. We might innovate a way to success, but I highly doubt it, especially with Priit dying.
This is working so far, and with our numbers and the momentum of the war, this is something we can easily do. It might take a long time but a war of attrition is possible and one we can easily win.
Uhhh, not sure how we would do this, but it seems rather complicated, and the only way we could do this is by concentrating our warriors near the south, thus weakening the north. Not entirely sound strategy, as while this would allow us to win decisively, it is risky as well. @Redium Some clarifications on tactics please?
No. Once we do this, we lose any control over the Mountain Clans. Plus we are just kicking the can down the road with them.
- Location
- Canada
I think its time the civilizations around us to realize they shouldn't fuck with us, by burning Arrow lake to the ground by strangling them to death as they send warriors at us in an attempt to make us stop. Cause I really am tired of the constant war threatening us. An from what was suppose to be our friends? Yeah fuck Arrow Lake.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
I think it refers to ruining the supply stream from the south to the north. Assaulting and ambushing their canoes whenever we can.
Mostly a guerrilla tactics, except we are doing it inside their own territory.
Largely predictable results on the government votes, barking up the wrong tree on the value votes.
About par for the course!
So Slave, Skilled Slave and Citizen. Except Skilled Slave almost never happens because they're put to work doing tasks different enough not to be able to build up a specialized skill set.
And looks like they got polygamy institutionalized, probably between all the raiding casualties and slavery, they could simply deny half the men any mates
Heh, perspective changes things.
Damn, must have been atrocious rolls. Good thing we bulked out our warriors, because we're going to need more.
Hero Has Arrived.
The Frost Scarred are pretty terrifying to see really.
Their Econ can't tank the hits it looks like. Odds are they'd capitulate if we simply keep it up.
In life and in death, the great carry the burdens no others could.
I'm guessing Priit REALLY wanted Balance of People, but was negotiated down by basically everyone else in a position of influence who didn't think it was a good use of effort?
Most of the below feels sort of like against a specific trait on gut feels.
[ ] [End] Regret
What would Priit regret?
His youth where he married too young, was betrayed too young, where he fought all that came.
His adulthood where he raged against the elders, and fought with those who would later be brother to him.
His old age where he had to take up the blacksword once more in battle, despite seeking peace.
I think this is a push back against Flat Arrow Outlook or an upgrade for Retributive Justice. It kind of defined all the mistakes of his youth. Each time he raged and wielded violence it never changed anything.
Dying wishing he spent his youth better is not a bad thing for the civilization I think.
[ ] [End] Bitterness
Bitterness, that for all his strength, his justice, the spirits send yet another test, another trial. That even as prepared, as seasoned as his warriors were, the less righteous, less skilled could be favored by the spirits. That all comes to nought in the end but more blood.
This feels like a push against/refinement for Trial By Fire. Whats the point of being tested if you never get rewarded at the end?
[ ] [End] Apathy
Why try at all? He was the very best of his generation, as Aeva was. They did their best, and in the end it doesn't matter.
Whats the message taken from the Best not caring about being it by the people?
Push against I Want To Be The Very Best probably.
[ ] [End] Anger
The spirits send test after test. Trial after trial. Fuck that shit.
Push against Supernal Symphony/Trial by Fire. If the spirits want to keep fucking with you, why keep making them happy?
I'm expecting this to be a popular option regardless though.
[ ] [End] Resignation
What amounted of Priit's lifelong pursuit of justice?
The Law he set out to codify, ultimately did not enshrine his desires. He sought justice and only got war.
Should he have pursued that?
Push against Retributive Justice probably?
What should the People try to defeat Arrow Lake in war?
[ ] [War] Try and assault the walls of their settlement directly.
There is a SLIM chance that Priit might come up with a miracle innovation before he died, but if not, this will be a horrific slaughter.
[ ] [War] Continue to strangle Arrow Lake's food supply.
This works, but it relies on everything else being stable while we pressure Arrow Lake until they collapse or capitulate. With Priit dead, we can't rely on a dedicated Martial action next turn to do this, and we still need to maintain our warrior count.
[ ] [War] Try and divide Arrow Lake's two settlements so they can be conquered piecemeal.
Split them up. We know that they are interdependent, so if you break the connection, one will starve and the other will enter poverty.
Without the food from their southern farms the northern side can't maintain their warriors.
Noting we can't hurt the South side effectively due to distance, so odds are good the problem is kicked down a generation
[ ] [War] Invite the Mountain Clans to settle and dig into Arrow Lake's territory.
This is likely to be effective, but we'd lose some control over how things turn out. I'd note that this potentially lets us replace Arrow Lake with Mountain Clan settlers, who'd owe us twice over, once for the food aid, and once for the land. Gratitude might wear thin later, but on the other hand they'd be the most likely to trigger a slave revolt as well.
The best way to suppress another civilization is to put a civilization that hates them in the middle of the fight. It worked with the Bond Breakers, it worked with the West.
Personal vote:
[ ] [End] Regret
[ ] [End] Bitterness
[ ] [War] Try and divide Arrow Lake's two settlements so they can be conquered piecemeal.
[ ] [War] Invite the Mountain Clans to settle and dig into Arrow Lake's territory.
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
No. We got unlucky. Or maybe their 'luck' was some system of tactics.
But in any case, their demands were unacceptable.
- Location
- USA
Anyway now that my thoughts on the votes are out, here is what I think of the rest of the update.
This was to be expected, and went as predicted. Kind of curious to see what our upgraded new government gives us for features.
Yeah, I think everyone was wrong about what this meant when they were debating it as it was entirely wrong. I'm guessing everyone put more emphasis on the Future part rather than the generations, with the generations meaning not everyone but just the generations of family. Yeah...considering the fact that we just received a trait for Bloodline Inheritance, have also received a government based around ancient aristocracy where powers are concentrated among families, and just implemented a system of warriors based around warrior elites, methinks the focus of our society may have shifted.
Considering the articles above from wikipedia on the topic, I think we can safely say our society has become a lot more conservative than it was before, especially as we have a system of values and beliefs that puts credence in family values and especially investing power in the aristocracy. Not entirely sure if this is a good thing or not, but at this point I'm sure there's likely been some kind of shift in our society from individualism, to collectivism.
On the bright side, at least it was Blood of My Brothers that upgraded as that was not at max, meaning we won't be taking heavy penalties due to being overdeveloped in a value.
That being said, we will likely need to work harder in the future if we want to avoid nepotism and ensuring there is some kind of stable balance between powerful families and everyone else.
With all of this in mind, though, I really do think we need to implement something like Balance of People soon to make sure this inequality doesn't skyrocket too heavily. Kinda curious if we will develop something similar to filial piety from this, as this seems almost Confucian in tone.
Considering how their warriors are seen more as militia than actually warriors, I don't know if being a Bluestone Warrior has any special significance in terms of being considered elite in game mechanics, as while he may be elite for their standards, that likely does not mean being someone like a Fang or Stonecrusher.
Also, it's clear they care for lineage here too.
So one of his captives had been good enough to be considered a third wife candidate? Well, that explains what they do with the female slaves, as expected.
Hmmm, was not expecting this. So does this mean that essentially being a slave is a temporary status within Arrow Lake, with anyone being able to earn their rights back? I wonder how they got there.
It sounds like training well behaved slaves seems to benefit the masters in this case. Seems rather paternalistic really. Not sure how tying things to their promotional status would go thought. Also what's the difference between Captor and Indebted?
Right, so did the combat system change too? As, this description is making me believe there was multiple phases her. It's clear we fought alone here without any allied support from the Northlands or Pearl Divers, any reason why @Redium ? As for the multiple phases we pretty much rolled horribly at first and their luck killed us, with Priit essentially slaughtering them later when he finally deployed, with a good enough roll to supplant theirs. If this was a single roll, maybe we just rolled mediocre, such as under the margin that Priit's bonus was needed, thus his deployment.
Anywho, how bad were our losses, and how pissed is the Fingers?
I see that our style of warfare is not like some of the others due to the terrain. Kind of hard to fight a decisive battle when its so easy to slip away.
Damn, pretty impressive for someone near their deathbed. Also, this reminds me of the Ivory-Blooded Chief as I don't remember Priit wearing an antlered helmet.
Priit's and the Fang's tracking bonus?
Yeah, we really need to eliminate Arrow Lake, or at least make any condition to end the war the freeing of the slaves so they can't use that knowledge gained.
Are the Fangs cannibals? As that's what it seems to imply.
Seems like Priit is getting fed up with all of these ordeals.
So he died of old age rather than battle, as that is not something you can fight.
I hope this won't be too detrimental of an affect, as it will likely just encourage bandwagoning in the future, with close votes being seen as disfavorable even if both sides vehemently disagree, as both would probably rather not taking something they know is universally bad.
Except that's not true. When he wielded violence against that of the Big Man of the Fingers after wielding it against the Ivory-Blooded Chief, he changed his own fate and that of this settlement. By implying and threatening violence through the creation of his own faction, he created changes through our system of adult trials and eventually the law. Through using violence to fight the enemies of the Peace Builders he was able to keep his allies and brothers in arms from harms way, a notable change. All of these are counter examples to that, and most of them were very successful. From what the text from this update seems to indicate, while he seems to be somewhat resigned to the fighting right now there is no textual evidence to suggest that he is blaming the actions of his past here, while right before the text of the vote itself there is a very select passage referencing ordeals and the spirits.
The fact that he also feels that the ordeals are still necessary leads me to believe that any waves that this statement may cause will not be too large.
I don't agree with most of your assessments, as I don't believe they are to be as far reaching, as in that influential on our values as you think they'll be, while also ignoring the immediate effects of what these emotions being said on his deathbed will mean immediately.
While I do agree that the words that are said on his deathbed will likely inform the rest of the tribe as that will be the last prevailing message he leaves behind, I am not entirely sure it affects our values so heavily as you seem to imply it will.
While thinking about what this vote may mean and the values it may impart in the long term are important, I think in the immediate future we should think about what our choice and action regarding choosing his last dying deathbed words will mean. Priit serves as the commander on the front lines, two updates ago we received word of how he managed the fighting on such a vast front, through intermediaries. With Priit dying as he is, I have no doubt that those closest to him on the field will hear his words and possibly pick up the emotions he is feeling while he lay dying. If for example they feel regret and resignation, they may fight with a burden on their shoulders or a belief that they cannot win. With anger, I think they will at least channel their rage into crushing Arrow Lake with more fervor, though at the cost of thinking rationally. That is why I prefer anger as the choice right now.
As the last vote proved in terms of core values, when it comes to deciphering what these means, some of the predictions here can be dead wrong. That is why I think we should not forget the trees when we look at the forests, as those will have meaningful impacts as well.
Two things. Firstly, while Priit dying is something I am worried about in case we botch another roll, I am not entirely worried about our action economy next turn, mostly because we learned the turn before that Priit has a granddaughter who is a hero as well. So while we may not have a dedicated martial action to choose to raid, unless she's a martial hero, we should have one of the others that should help with other tasks.
Secondly, the main reason I am so leery against choosing the Southern strategy is two things. Firstly, by choosing the southern option we will be working at a disadvantage somewhat. The Arrow Lake warriors know the importance of guarding these caravans, and will thus be ready from any attack by us.
From what this excerpt seems to indicate our style of waging war is heavily based upon ambushes and skirmishing. While they will still be surprised when we attack their convoys, they will still be expecting something of the sort.
Secondly, fighting in the south loosens the noose temporarily as we will likely have to devote a majority of our attentions on the caravans, thus allowing some of the Arrow Lake Tribe to return to foraging and hunting, likely dragging out the war. If we do not perform as well in the South we will suffer for it.
While I am not sure if this passage is merely a hypothetical or if we are actually interdicting their supply lines, there is one other thing I would like to point out.
These battles will likely not be like the battles we are fighting now as these supply line raids will involve decisive battles, something that it seems Arrow Lake is adept at fighting due to their experience in the mountains, and not at all like the heavy skirmishing occurring right now. While seemingly adept at ending the war quickly, by miscalculating, like we all did somewhat before when we thought we would easily win, we could gravely prolong it.
I'd rather take the much safer bet of starving Arrow Lake out using attrition than risk a gamble which swing the momentum of the war back in the enemy's favor.
This was to be expected, and went as predicted. Kind of curious to see what our upgraded new government gives us for features.
Yeah, I think everyone was wrong about what this meant when they were debating it as it was entirely wrong. I'm guessing everyone put more emphasis on the Future part rather than the generations, with the generations meaning not everyone but just the generations of family. Yeah...considering the fact that we just received a trait for Bloodline Inheritance, have also received a government based around ancient aristocracy where powers are concentrated among families, and just implemented a system of warriors based around warrior elites, methinks the focus of our society may have shifted.
Article: Familialism or familism is an ideology that puts priority to family.[1] The term familialism has been specifically used for advocating a welfare system wherein it is presumed that families will take responsibility for the care of its members rather than leaving that responsibility to the government.[1] The term familism relates more to family values.[1] This can manifest as prioritizing the needs of the family higher than that of individuals.[1] Yet, the two terms are often used interchangeably.[2]
Article: "Family as a model for the state" as an idea in political philosophy originated in the Socratic-Platonic principle of macrocosm/microcosm, which identifies recurrent patterns at larger and smaller scales of the cosmos, including the social world. In particular, monarchists have argued that the state mirrors the patriarchal family, with the subjects obeying the king as children obey their father, which in turn helps to justify monarchical or aristocratic rule.
Considering the articles above from wikipedia on the topic, I think we can safely say our society has become a lot more conservative than it was before, especially as we have a system of values and beliefs that puts credence in family values and especially investing power in the aristocracy. Not entirely sure if this is a good thing or not, but at this point I'm sure there's likely been some kind of shift in our society from individualism, to collectivism.
On the bright side, at least it was Blood of My Brothers that upgraded as that was not at max, meaning we won't be taking heavy penalties due to being overdeveloped in a value.
That being said, we will likely need to work harder in the future if we want to avoid nepotism and ensuring there is some kind of stable balance between powerful families and everyone else.
With all of this in mind, though, I really do think we need to implement something like Balance of People soon to make sure this inequality doesn't skyrocket too heavily. Kinda curious if we will develop something similar to filial piety from this, as this seems almost Confucian in tone.
Considering how their warriors are seen more as militia than actually warriors, I don't know if being a Bluestone Warrior has any special significance in terms of being considered elite in game mechanics, as while he may be elite for their standards, that likely does not mean being someone like a Fang or Stonecrusher.
Also, it's clear they care for lineage here too.
So one of his captives had been good enough to be considered a third wife candidate? Well, that explains what they do with the female slaves, as expected.
Hmmm, was not expecting this. So does this mean that essentially being a slave is a temporary status within Arrow Lake, with anyone being able to earn their rights back? I wonder how they got there.
It sounds like training well behaved slaves seems to benefit the masters in this case. Seems rather paternalistic really. Not sure how tying things to their promotional status would go thought. Also what's the difference between Captor and Indebted?
Right, so did the combat system change too? As, this description is making me believe there was multiple phases her. It's clear we fought alone here without any allied support from the Northlands or Pearl Divers, any reason why @Redium ? As for the multiple phases we pretty much rolled horribly at first and their luck killed us, with Priit essentially slaughtering them later when he finally deployed, with a good enough roll to supplant theirs. If this was a single roll, maybe we just rolled mediocre, such as under the margin that Priit's bonus was needed, thus his deployment.
Anywho, how bad were our losses, and how pissed is the Fingers?
I see that our style of warfare is not like some of the others due to the terrain. Kind of hard to fight a decisive battle when its so easy to slip away.
Damn, pretty impressive for someone near their deathbed. Also, this reminds me of the Ivory-Blooded Chief as I don't remember Priit wearing an antlered helmet.
Priit's and the Fang's tracking bonus?
Yeah, we really need to eliminate Arrow Lake, or at least make any condition to end the war the freeing of the slaves so they can't use that knowledge gained.
Are the Fangs cannibals? As that's what it seems to imply.
Seems like Priit is getting fed up with all of these ordeals.
So he died of old age rather than battle, as that is not something you can fight.
I hope this won't be too detrimental of an affect, as it will likely just encourage bandwagoning in the future, with close votes being seen as disfavorable even if both sides vehemently disagree, as both would probably rather not taking something they know is universally bad.
Except that's not true. When he wielded violence against that of the Big Man of the Fingers after wielding it against the Ivory-Blooded Chief, he changed his own fate and that of this settlement. By implying and threatening violence through the creation of his own faction, he created changes through our system of adult trials and eventually the law. Through using violence to fight the enemies of the Peace Builders he was able to keep his allies and brothers in arms from harms way, a notable change. All of these are counter examples to that, and most of them were very successful. From what the text from this update seems to indicate, while he seems to be somewhat resigned to the fighting right now there is no textual evidence to suggest that he is blaming the actions of his past here, while right before the text of the vote itself there is a very select passage referencing ordeals and the spirits.
The fact that he also feels that the ordeals are still necessary leads me to believe that any waves that this statement may cause will not be too large.
I don't agree with most of your assessments, as I don't believe they are to be as far reaching, as in that influential on our values as you think they'll be, while also ignoring the immediate effects of what these emotions being said on his deathbed will mean immediately.
While I do agree that the words that are said on his deathbed will likely inform the rest of the tribe as that will be the last prevailing message he leaves behind, I am not entirely sure it affects our values so heavily as you seem to imply it will.
While thinking about what this vote may mean and the values it may impart in the long term are important, I think in the immediate future we should think about what our choice and action regarding choosing his last dying deathbed words will mean. Priit serves as the commander on the front lines, two updates ago we received word of how he managed the fighting on such a vast front, through intermediaries. With Priit dying as he is, I have no doubt that those closest to him on the field will hear his words and possibly pick up the emotions he is feeling while he lay dying. If for example they feel regret and resignation, they may fight with a burden on their shoulders or a belief that they cannot win. With anger, I think they will at least channel their rage into crushing Arrow Lake with more fervor, though at the cost of thinking rationally. That is why I prefer anger as the choice right now.
As the last vote proved in terms of core values, when it comes to deciphering what these means, some of the predictions here can be dead wrong. That is why I think we should not forget the trees when we look at the forests, as those will have meaningful impacts as well.
Two things. Firstly, while Priit dying is something I am worried about in case we botch another roll, I am not entirely worried about our action economy next turn, mostly because we learned the turn before that Priit has a granddaughter who is a hero as well. So while we may not have a dedicated martial action to choose to raid, unless she's a martial hero, we should have one of the others that should help with other tasks.
Secondly, the main reason I am so leery against choosing the Southern strategy is two things. Firstly, by choosing the southern option we will be working at a disadvantage somewhat. The Arrow Lake warriors know the importance of guarding these caravans, and will thus be ready from any attack by us.
From what this excerpt seems to indicate our style of waging war is heavily based upon ambushes and skirmishing. While they will still be surprised when we attack their convoys, they will still be expecting something of the sort.
Secondly, fighting in the south loosens the noose temporarily as we will likely have to devote a majority of our attentions on the caravans, thus allowing some of the Arrow Lake Tribe to return to foraging and hunting, likely dragging out the war. If we do not perform as well in the South we will suffer for it.
While I am not sure if this passage is merely a hypothetical or if we are actually interdicting their supply lines, there is one other thing I would like to point out.
These battles will likely not be like the battles we are fighting now as these supply line raids will involve decisive battles, something that it seems Arrow Lake is adept at fighting due to their experience in the mountains, and not at all like the heavy skirmishing occurring right now. While seemingly adept at ending the war quickly, by miscalculating, like we all did somewhat before when we thought we would easily win, we could gravely prolong it.
I'd rather take the much safer bet of starving Arrow Lake out using attrition than risk a gamble which swing the momentum of the war back in the enemy's favor.
