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Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

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Yzarc said:
.....huh. Yeah and since he was the one who rezed it, he is now beloved of the Spirits. They all are.

Need to go back and see the backgrounds and update them.

All 4 can buy gifts.
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I wonder if we can give Dharok r her FB following:

Article:
Firebringer
Rank 6 Ragabash Gift

This powerful Gift allows a Ragabash to pull the ultimate stunt, stealing a supernatural power and turning it into a Gift. Moreover, the Gift can be taught to others, as if the New Moon was a spirit teacher. The difficult part is that the Ragabash has to endure having the power used on her first, but after that, she makes it her own to teach, but alas, not to use herself. A powerful spirit, such as the avatar of a trickster Incarna, teaches this Gift.

System: Survival, smarts and sacrifice are key to acquiring this Gift, though no specific dice rolls are needed. First, the Ragabash must suffer through the effects of the power (such as vampiric Discipline, or a mage's rote) being successfully used on her. Then, she can take her experiences, work with the appropriate spirit and turn the power into a Gift she can teach to others. The Ragabash cannot herself use the Gift, and moreover, she now has a vulnerability to its effects. The next time she encounters another supernatural using the power, the enemy is at one difficulty less to use it on the New Moon (the power more easily affects the Ragabash). Any supernatural power acn be co-opted in this way, including Wyrm-tainted powers. In this way, the werewolves can turn the might of the Wyrm back on itself. Because of the sacrifice involved, the New Moon usually gains considerable Renown for not only "stealing" the knowledge of the supernatural power, but also teaching it to others. Storytellers should feel free to be creative and innovative in bringing powers from other games (Such as Vampire and Mage) into the Werewolf universe. The Storyteller determines the level of any Gift gained in this manner, as appropriate.


And have Fan and Thalassa use their powers on him so he can steal them and turn them into Gifts.
 
This is going to take a while in terms of gifts, but I definitely think we should get Strength of Will with Lorgar that way we do not have to cheese Code of Conduct, we can just max out Fan's casting pool... and in combat he can greatly improve both psykers and sorcerers. So really that is just a great Gift all around.

Alratan said:
I wonder if we can give Dharok r her FB following:

Article:
Firebringer
Rank 6 Ragabash Gift

This powerful Gift allows a Ragabash to pull the ultimate stunt, stealing a supernatural power and turning it into a Gift. Moreover, the Gift can be taught to others, as if the New Moon was a spirit teacher. The difficult part is that the Ragabash has to endure having the power used on her first, but after that, she makes it her own to teach, but alas, not to use herself. A powerful spirit, such as the avatar of a trickster Incarna, teaches this Gift.

System: Survival, smarts and sacrifice are key to acquiring this Gift, though no specific dice rolls are needed. First, the Ragabash must suffer through the effects of the power (such as vampiric Discipline, or a mage's rote) being successfully used on her. Then, she can take her experiences, work with the appropriate spirit and turn the power into a Gift she can teach to others. The Ragabash cannot herself use the Gift, and moreover, she now has a vulnerability to its effects. The next time she encounters another supernatural using the power, the enemy is at one difficulty less to use it on the New Moon (the power more easily affects the Ragabash). Any supernatural power acn be co-opted in this way, including Wyrm-tainted powers. In this way, the werewolves can turn the might of the Wyrm back on itself. Because of the sacrifice involved, the New Moon usually gains considerable Renown for not only "stealing" the knowledge of the supernatural power, but also teaching it to others. Storytellers should feel free to be creative and innovative in bringing powers from other games (Such as Vampire and Mage) into the Werewolf universe. The Storyteller determines the level of any Gift gained in this manner, as appropriate.


And have Fan and Thalassa use their powers on him so he can steal them and turn them into Gifts.
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Even if we cannot, and I think that is a bit too much cheese, being able to steal the powers of Chaos Daemons is very on brand for Mr 'I eat Chaos Daemons Essene for Breakfast' Psychic Vampire :V
 
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DragonParadox said:
This is going to take a while in terms of gifts, but I definitely think we should get Strength of Will with Lorgar that way we do not have to cheese Code of Conduct, we can just max out Fan's casting pool... and in combat he can greatly improve both psykers and sorcerers. So really that is just a great Gift all around.
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Sadly Strength of Will gives Willpower points not Willpower dots, so it doesn't increase the static value that you roll.

It just gives more of the consumable resource, as that's what points are.

It is a great Gift for choirs of psykers.
 
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Article:
As in the Beginning
Rank 6 Theurge Gift

The Theurge can tear away aeons of the Weaver's works for a short while. This Gift rips down the Gauntlet entirely, merging the worlds of flesh and spirit as they were in the days of legend. Moreover, this mended region acts as a shining beacon to Gaian spirits, calling a flood of nature-spirits and other allies to assist the Theurge. An avatar of Gaia Herself teaches this Gift.

System: The player spends three points of Gnosis and rolls Wits + Occult (difficulty of the local Gauntlet). The Gauntlet is torn open within the local area. The thinner the Gauntlet, the wider the rip: from a few rooms in the midst of a skyscraper to an entire mile of landscape in the depths of the Amazon. Friendly spirits of the Storyteller's choosing come flooding out to aid the Theurge — the more successes, the greater the number or power. The Gauntlet is permanently lowered by 1 in an area where this Gift has been used; this benefit doesn't stack with repeated use.


I wonder if we get this it would make Wyldshaping easier, if we take the relevant WorldSoul option, which I think we should.

For Dharok, this would be great:

Article:
Paws of the Newborn Cub
Rank 5 Silver Fang Gift

With a glare and snarl, the Silver Fang strips her foe of any supernatural power. Many servants of the Wrym have tried to employ their putrescent magic against the Fangs, only to realize that they face a mighty foe with only mundane methods of defense. A falcon-spirit teaches this Gift.

System: The player spends a Gnosis point and rolls Gnosis (difficulty of the target's Willpower). Each success removes all special abilities (shapeshifting, Gifts, any sort of supernatural or magical powers) for one turn.


Switching off an enemy's magic powers is very, very nice. Even with a low chance of success.

For both Lorgar and Dharok, this would be interesting:

Article:
Thought-Form of the Twelve Ministers
Rank 6 Stargazers Gift
Mantra Gift

The spoken mantra for this Gift is Aum-ka-la-rim-sa-ka-la-rim-ha-ka-la-rim. This Gift allows a Stargazer to attain true spiritual balance for a single moment. In that moment, all extreme desires and impure emotions are blasted away by an unmitigated blast of the Self. A startling crackle of energy travels like lightning to each of the Stargazer's chakra points. It only lasts for a second, and then it is gone. But in its wake, the Stargazer is left empowered and burning with a halo of pale green light. There is only a handful of Stargazers who have ever been worthy enough to learn this Gift, and it can only be taught by an avatar of Chimera.

System: The player spends a single temporary point of Gnosis, Rage, and Willpower. For the remainder of the scene, the Garou gains a series of Trait bonuses: +2 to Perception, +3 to Enigmas, +3 to Empathy, and +2 to Brawl. There are two other benefits as well. First, any Garou standing within ten feet of the Stargazer using this Gift find that their temporary Gnosis pools are suddenly refreshed. Also, this Gift burns out any corruption that was contained in the werewolf grasping the power. Hence, any Wyrm-taint that the character had thus disappears.
 
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One last note before I turn in for the night, the reason to take anti-Chaos Ward is not primarily to deal with Chaos armies, it is to deal with their infiltrators. Everyone who is chaos takes the penalty. If we are worried about baby Erebus coming down with a case of Chaos... well now we should not be since he would be so affected that he couldn't move the moment the pact goes through. Same for them coming in from off world. -5 dice is a lot.
 
DragonParadox said:
One last note before I turn in for the night, the reason to take anti-Chaos Ward is not primarily to deal with Chaos armies, it is to deal with their infiltrators. Everyone who is chaos takes the penalty. If we are worried about baby Erebus coming down with a case of Chaos... well now we should not be since he would be so affected that he couldn't move the moment the pact goes through. Same for them coming in from off world. -5 dice is a lot.
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Yes and no. A ward against Chaos at the orbital space ports and at major transformation hubs should be almost as good, and long as we designed the network topology to ensure that people need to travel through them.
 
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You know, interestingly enough, Big E is understandably concerned about Losing his Assured Victory... but, with the chaos it means that he has something he lacked before- Choices. AS mentioned, he's going to forge his own path now, and that means that it's going to be in his image, not the path he knows will succeed... I'm rather curious as to how that will cause things to diverge.


As a side note, Anti-Chaos wards sounds really nice... but would we be able to make lesser versions of it over time?
 
Ghost in a wall said:
You know, interestingly enough, Big E is understandably concerned about Losing his Assured Victory... but, with the chaos it means that he has something he lacked before- Choices. AS mentioned, he's going to forge his own path now, and that means that it's going to be in his image, not the path he knows will succeed... I'm rather curious as to how that will cause things to diverge.


As a side note, Anti-Chaos wards sounds really nice... but would we be able to make lesser versions of it over time?
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It didnt suceed in the original it wouldnt have worked here. Honestly trying to use precog with Tzeench in the same dimensions is a stupid idea, even worst when you are deciding the fate of the galaxy.
 
Ghost in a wall said:
As a side note, Anti-Chaos wards sounds really nice... but would we be able to make lesser versions of it over time?
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Yes. They just won't cover the entire planet and orbit.

I just don't think we need them to, and that we need things like Wyld Shaping more, as we've just got so much to do.

Particularly if we go with ubiquitous Machine Spirits, so key locations with local anti-Chaos wards can be panopticons with the Spirits looking out for people with unusual bad luck.
 
ImBuda said:
It didnt suceed in the original it wouldnt have worked here. Honestly trying to use precog with Tzeench in the same dimensions is a stupid idea, even worst when you are deciding the fate of the galaxy.
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If your choices are lose or go for a win what do you do. The Emperor plan required the united power of chaos undivided to stop, and even then he nearly won. And Tzeench is hardly all knowing, indeed Tzeench explicitly cannot predict the future with any real certainty, that was what the fate-weaver was for. Tzeench Is many thing but even Tzeench is not dumb enough to risk its own existence diving into the Well of Ur, for true future vision.
 
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In 40K are precognition is true future vision, as it's a form of time travel. The precog is seeing real futures that are happening. It just usually won't be the real future that any of the various futures of their current self end up experiencing, although some of their parallel selves in timelines where they didn't chose to use their precognition may.

I'm pretty sure that Warhammer is a many branching timelines cosmology, so all possible futures, presents, and past exist somewhere within the timeline tree, based on descriptions of the skien that Eldar Seers interact with.
 
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Time travel is acasual in 40k or at least warp time travel is, we know this from the Ork that killed his younger self to have 2 of his gun, and didn't paradox himself. IE Xeelee sequence, no idea about the Necron version but considering that one Necron predicts the future perfectly alway, but only because he will go and change past to force his predictions to happen if they don't happen correctly, the first time around says acasual as well.
 
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Thinking of what to do with Thalassa's 8xp, I think we should consider this

Article:
Guiding Hand of Djeheuty
Rank 4 Silent Strider Gift

None could stay the words of Djeheuty, the messenger of the Gods. Those who have this Gift do not even have to accompany the message, but can send it on its way and be assured that it will reach its destination. The spirit of any migrating animal teaches this Gift.

System: The player spends two points of Gnosis and rolls Charisma + Occult, difficulty 8, while the Strider loudly states the message's destination. The message must be written on something physical (paper, tablet, bone shard). A simple success imbues the message with a Gaffling that will ensure it arrives at the stated destination. The method of delivery is a matter of coincidence; the message is picked up by someone curious, ends up on a truck heading that direction, floats on the wind, etc. The number of additional successes determines how long this takes, regardless of distance.

Number of Successes Length of Transit

1 A year
2 Six months
3 One season
4 One week
5 One day

While the message is in transit, the Silent Strider cannot regain the two points of Gnosis invested in it. Nor can they revoke the message. As a result, this Gift tends to be used only when all other avenues have been tried and failed, or if the Strider's death is certain. The Strider's death will not disrupt this Gift.


As there are no distance limitations, it's basically a superior version of Astrotelepathy.

Specially, in this cases it means we can communicate with Milhand to reopen trade and tell them we've conquered the planet, that the Covenant is gone, and that we have a lot to offer.

Earth-Destroyer said:
Time travel is acasual in 40k or at least warp time travel is, we know this from the Ork that killed his younger self to have 2 of his gun, and didn't paradox himself. IE Xeelee sequence, no idea about the Necron version but considering that one Necron predicts the future perfectly alway, but only because he will go and change past to force his predictions to happen if they don't happen correctly, the first time around says acasual as well.
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Acausal is almost impossible to distinguish from branching timelines.
 
Alratan said:
Acausal is almost impossible to distinguish from branching timelines.
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Depend don't have the book right now but the Necron I mentioned pretty sure he goes to the past changes thing then return to the present with events in history altered to fit his failed predictions, while at the same time not duplicating himself, which is what would happen in Branching timelines, no getting around that with branching time travel.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Depend don't have the book right now but the Necron I mentioned pretty sure he goes to the past changes thing then return to the present with events in history altered to fit his failed predictions, while at the same time not duplicating himself, which is what would happen in Branching timelines, no getting around that with branching time travel.
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Depends what controls which branched timeline he ends up in, I think, as his time travel could also be cross-time travel, crossing between different branches.

You can still have what seem like closed timelike loops in a branching timeline model I think.
 
Sorry I was mistaken, turns out Shadow Empress was a The Lost Primarch Quest original made up not some obscure lore expanded upon, my bad.

Still, consider Kairos is literally called the Fateweaver whose pranks is as fate defining as the Changeling with him dead likely many of Tzeentch's manipulations have been undone.
 
Alratan said:
Depends what controls which branched timeline he ends up in, I think, as his time travel could also be cross-time travel, crossing between different branches.

You can still have what seem like closed timelike loops in a branching timeline model I think.
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In branching timeline time travel, you cannot alter the past, then go to a changed future without meeting another you, because you created another you when you made the new timeline. You can potentially return to your original timeline but won't you see any alterations to history, because you didn't change that timeline history only another timeline.
 
When he start acting like a dick? HELL YES!

I hope like Canon our Lorgar also befriend Angron, give him actual help and then punch big E on his face for being a densed dickhead to him.
 
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Well, the thought is tempting and cathartic.

Hm, per the timeline, Vulkan was found in 832. Lorgar would have been found in 857. Unfortunately, the Emperor has decided to accelerate the timetable where Lorgar is concerned. The reasons are logical, if extremely exasperating for the party. One must assume that Lorgar will be found in 842.

If Dorn, Guilliman, and Magnus are still found in the canonical order, then Lorgar will come after them, but unlike canon, Lorgar would be found before Sanguinius, Jonson, Perturabo, and, ugh, Mortartion.

On the positive side, it might give Lorgar more than a decade's head start to help Magnus with his Legion, hopefully cultivating a friendship and alliance with him, and swaying him away from the Emperor.
 
As other primarchs as well, Lorgar basically be the primarch that helps the 'damaged ones' basically the counseler primarch helping outlier primarchs.

Also since Lorgar will have a headstart he can befriend Perturabo before becoming a jaded mess and have him at his side with Clochis gonna rival Mars and with our Technomagic, Men of Stone and repairing STCs and so forth we can imterest him.
 
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Mostlyblue said:
With the golden path gone, he doesn't need to conquer the galaxy anymore.
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Still plenty of threats like The Beast and what ever the fuck the Rangdan where, seriously Emps had to intervene using a Ctan Shard so we got some real shit to deal with. The lack of the Golden Path just means he doesn't have to be a Xenocidal maniac about it. Though he should still stamp out Religion wherever he finds it.


Degorium said:
They had warning from the Eldar but they thought the Imperium of mankind was chaos or working with chaos and then still invited them to diplomacy talks.
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gale said:
Nooo? They didn't think the Imperium of mankind was chaos where the fuck are you pulling that from? Erebus did ruin it but that is Erebus role.
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They where wary about the Imperium being Choas aligned and investigated them. It's why Erebus ruined it because they found the Imperium as not a chaos puppet and decided to inter negotiations with them.

Alratan said:
Paws of the Newborn Cub
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Ah yes, Evil trembles when faced with the power of SOFT PUPPY TOE BEANS! THE GREATEST POWER 9F ALL!
 
Hm, yes, one hopes that Lorgar can befriend Perturabo. If Lorgar can befriend Magnus, Magnus could certainly help with Perturabo, as Magnus and Perturabo did have a surprisingly friendly relationship.

Hm, when it comes to the Primarchs rising to leadership of their homeworlds, Lorgar, in this quest, is, hm, one of those that kept his hands relatively clean. Granted, it is because the Mask of Winters did all the dirty work of killing just about everyone on Colchis, including the Covenant, but even so, Lorgar's hands are relatively clean in rising to leadership of Colchis, what with Lorgar resurrecting everyone not corrupted by Chaos, and then they willingly bent the knee to him.

Of course, there were other Primarchs that rose to power in relatively peaceful ways. Fulgrim is the only one who rose to leadership without any martial activities involved at all. Guilliman was already in line for leadership of his planet, given who adopted him. Magnus waged a campaign against the Psychneuien and rebuilt Prospero's cities, especially Tizca.

Regardless, one could argue that Lorgar's rise to leadership of his planet is the most... grandiose, considering everything that he had to face to reach this point. Those exploits would be quite at home amongst the mythological epics of eld. The Hero Aspect suits Lorgar quite well. One would presume that, in this case, hero would be referring to the classical Greek definition of hero, not the modern one. The Exalted are heroes in that classical sense as well, after all.
 
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