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Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

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Yzarc said:
Sorry. I mean Sorcerous Workings. Exalted Sorcery and not the Warp based one.
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That is actually a lot more straightforward:
  1. Build space platform with self destruct and defenses to deal with the inevitable demons of course
  2. Make artifact to lower the DCs of Wildshaping
  3. Do Sorcerous Working to lower the DCs of Wildshaping
  4. Shape however many Resources worth of barren desert domain
  5. Shape whatever it is we feel would be helpful to conjure out of thin air
 
Well, the lack of ease with Wildshaping upon Colchis itself will make some things... awkward, but it should hopefully not be too painful to circumvent this problem.
 
Hm, thinking upon it, there could be considerable synergy amongst Philosopher, Illumination, and Enlightenment.

Likewise, Philosopher could potentially synergize well with Nurture and perhaps Illumination and Enlightenment. A philosopher is forever pursuing wisdom, and in the process, philosophy is nurturing and enriching their lives and minds. This endless journey would also be linked to illumination and enlightenment.
 
Yzarc said:
It weaken a space, not a place. So self destructing the platform will not help as Daemons can still poke through.

That said, this should work for the Micro level.
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Oh sure, but a hole in interstellar space a few light hours from the inhabited planet is about as useful for any invading daemons as a plane ticket to the middle of the Antarctic, Daemonic instability will do the rest.
 
. . . for some reason my brain just thought up a reason to get the Eidetic Memory Merit (4xp) cause i want lorgar to look back on his life, to see his life and glean any wisdom and understanding of himself and what knowledge he learned


the scond time he does this flashback of his life, he will stumble over that moment he reflected upon himself; at that point he will see how he interprets himself at said moment of time and has a comparison of his current review of his life and can see how his view upon himself changes.

i don't see any mechanical benefit from spending 4 xp, but random thought just showed up that I can't get it out of my head.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
In branching timeline time travel, you cannot alter the past, then go to a changed future without meeting another you, because you created another you when you made the new timeline. You can potentially return to your original timeline but won't you see any alterations to history, because you didn't change that timeline history only another timeline.
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You can, you just have to go to a timeline where the other you has just gone timetravelling themselves and not come back.
Somnia said:
Still plenty of threats like The Beast and what ever the fuck the Rangdan where, seriously Emps had to intervene using a Ctan Shard so we got some real shit to deal with. The lack of the Golden Path just means he doesn't have to be a Xenocidal maniac about it. Though he should still stamp out Religion wherever he finds it.
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It could make him worse, as without a Golden Path he may be even more risk averse, and so take an even harder line with potential threats.

MadMaud said:
We're gonna end up punching an Emperor in his face, aren't we?
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I would hope that the Emperor never recognises how powerful we are, and that if we need to be hostile the first he realises it is as he dies.

If we attack him, it should be stabbing him in the back with an immediately lethal blow.

Tzaphquiel said:
Well, the lack of ease with Wildshaping upon Colchis itself will make some things... awkward, but it should hopefully not be too painful to circumvent this problem.
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It will probably be a massive handicap that permanently reduces our progress. We want to Wyld shape the planet so we can do things like make fqctories out of thin air or repair the DAoT dockyards.

We only have a decade before the Empwror arrives. We're very unlikely to have time to do things the conventional way. For example, I think without Wyld shaping we'l never make a Ring of Iron. It's probably the work of many decades or centuries even with super-tech.

For regular Wyld Shaping of individuals, the obvious answer is to get a Warp capable ship and Wyldshape inside the Warp, where it's easy.
 
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I'm going to try something rather novel for me... being an Emperor optimist.

If we are dealing with an Emperor who is basically his Dune inspiration, Leto the Second, the Worm, someone who genuinely thought that he had only one path and he was the one who had to walk it then he could be a genuinely good person. I do not mean 'by the standards of the Imperium' or 'considering...' I mean full stop he could have been a good person who did unspeakable things. Logically if you can see that the only path to avoiding worse harm is you being a monster then being a monster if the right thing to do, it is the rationalization of every tyrant in the history of humanity, only in this case it would be the objective truth because he can literally see the future.

Now comes the hedging, 40K isn't actually Dune and divination does not work like that, it is never certain which means the Emperor was a monster based not on certainty, but on his best guess. That turns him from the genuine hero that was Leto the Second into a tragic figure undone by his own pride.

Thing is if that is the case... it is something that offering him some good unbiased counsel might actually help with. Fan can make a reasonable claim to being his peer so he might be willing to listen.
 
Hm, or it could just cause the Emperor to double down upon being the utter control freak that he is. His way or the highway, as it ever has been for that one.
 
Tzaphquiel said:
Hm, or it could just cause the Emperor to double down upon being the utter control freak that he is. His way or the highway, as it ever has been for that one.
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I really don't get what you're getting the control freak vibe from. Nothing about how any of his systems operate seem to suggest he had any level of control beyond the bare minimum. From the governance of the Imperium to the independent operational capacity of the legions the most I can think of is he had quotas and that is yet again I believe bare minimum.
 
Degorium said:
I really don't get what you're getting the control freak vibe from. Nothing about how any of his systems operate seem to suggest he had any level of control beyond the bare minimum. From the governance of the Imperium to the independent operational capacity of the legions the most I can think of is he had quotas and that is yet again I believe bare minimum.
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The man literally gave himself absolute authority in an ever-expanding militaristic super-state. If that is the bare minimum of control I don't want to know what you consider the median case.
 
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DragonParadox said:
The man literally gave himself absolute authority in an ever-expanding expanding militaristic super-state. If that is the bare minimum of control I don't want to know what you consider the median case.
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Okay then what do you mean by control freak that is his position in the government but the actual operations of the day-to-day were handled by the administratum which he was not micromanaging. The actual movement of the military was handled by the solar auxila and the Astra militarum, the movement of fleets yet again not him the control of the Secret Service yet again not him the actual operations for each of the Legions again every Primarch was allowed to do pretty much anything they wanted as long as they hit their quota so. Yeah I do consider the bare minimum he has a position in government that is the absolute Authority but he's like not at all managing anything beyond the bare minimum he has to.

Hell the only time he does anything against any Primarch Lorgar is so far behind on their quota Magnus who doesn't join the Crusade until well after with a massively depleted Legion beats him. And then seven of his Sons say please censor Magnus and those are the only two instances where he can be bothered to manage them in any real way. He can help and he does help he grants people objects ships gifts and assistance during the crusade. Though I will reiterate he seems to not care that the Ultramar sector is rapidly expanding within his Imperium which it is by far the most powerful state that joins the Imperium and it grows larger during the Crusade. He doesn't care that Magnus is actively using sorcery to take planets does not care that Kurze is actively using terrorism to bring in Worlds under his Banner. Doesn't care that the world eaters are just absolutely ruining every planet they come across. Doesn't mind the iron hands and their rebuilding of infrastructure before they move on to the next World doesn't mind the Emperor's Children and their preservation of culture and expansion of said culture on their way through either doesn't mind the blood angels and them doing the same thing.

By my own metrics he sits on the throne he holds the crown he is the ultimate Authority but he doesn't make the laws he doesn't run the government he doesn't run the secret Services he doesn't actually personally run the military the Navy or any other organization other than his custodies and sisters of Silence so yeah pretty bare minimum.
 
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Degorium said:
Okay then what do you mean by control freak that is his position in the government but the actual operations of the day-to-day were handled by the administratum which he was not micromanaging. The actual movement of the military was handled by the solar auxila and the Astra militarum, the movement of fleets yet again not him the control of the Secret Service yet again not him the actual operations for each of the Legions again every Primarch was allowed to do pretty much anything they wanted as long as they hit their quota so. Yeah I do consider the bare minimum he has a position in government that is the absolute Authority but he's like not at all managing anything beyond the bare minimum he has to.

Hell the only time he does anything against any Primarch Lorgar is so far behind on their quota Magnus who doesn't join the Crusade until well after with a massively depleted Legion beats him. And then seven of his Sons say please censor Magnus and those are the only two instances where he can be bothered to manage them in any real way. He can help and he does help he grants people objects ships gifts and assistance during the crusade. Though I will reiterate he seems to not care that the Ultramar sector is rapidly expanding within his Imperium which it is by far the most powerful state that joins the Imperium and it grows larger during the Crusade. He doesn't care that Magnus is actively using sorcery to take planets does not care that Kurze is actively using terrorism to bring in Worlds under his Banner. Doesn't care that the world eaters are just absolutely ruining every planet they come across. Doesn't mind the iron hands and their rebuilding of infrastructure before they move on to the next World doesn't mind the Emperor's Children and their preservation of culture and expansion of said culture on their way through either doesn't mind the blood angels and them doing the same thing.

My own metrics he sits on the throne he holds the crown he is the ultimate Authority but he doesn't make the laws he doesn't run the government he doesn't run the secret Services he doesn't actually personally run the military the Navy or any other organization other than his custodies and sisters of Silence so yeah pretty bare minimum.
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The man does not have a 'position in government' he decided to embark on a campaign of galactic domination in his own name on the grounds that only he can save mankind, that is Dr Doom levels of egomania. The stuff with the primarchs is not him lacking the desire for control, that is straight up tunnel vision and incompetence. The only way to prove he did not desire ultimate uncontested authority would have been not to claim ultimate uncontested authority by copious amounts of murder of anyone who stood in his way.
 
If he really was a control freak he would have stopped Night Lords from making fraying skin factory.
No a more apt description would be "join me and reach the quota and I would turn a blind eye, do not and then I simply conquer you." Mentality.

He hated Lorgar spreading religion and yet was willing to turn a blind eye until he didn't reached the quota.
He is not a mircromanager freak, he is a macromanager freak.
 
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Lord4StarCommand said:
If he really was a control freak he would have stopped Night Lords from making fraying skin factory.
No a more apt description would be "join me and reach the quota and I would turn a blind eye, do not and then I simply conquer you." Mentality.
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One can both desire ultimate power and be bad at exercising it, in the case of those who are very bad at it then tend to lose it, but the emperor by virtue of his personal power cheats and so keeps it... until the end where he becomes an undead figurehead for a rotting empire.

This is in canon mind, we seem to have a more reasonable version, who being optimistic, was just overwhelmed by everything that requires his attention.
 
DragonParadox said:
The man does not have a 'position in government' he decided to embark on a campaign of galactic domination in his own name on the grounds that only he can save mankind, that is Dr Doom levels of egomania. The stuff with the primarchs is not him lacking the desire for control, that is straight up tunnel vision and incompetence. The only way to prove he did not desire ultimate uncontested authority would have been not to claim ultimate uncontested authority by copious amounts of murder of anyone who stood in his way.
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Okay let's see he does with every other Perpetual did during the long night and by that I mean nothing Humanity dies. It's just the truth. No amount of him being terrible changes this fact. By virtue of the fact the Orcs the Rangdan and chaos fully and firmly exist if he did nothing Humanity fucking dies or it lives in a universe and which it wishes it did. You can call it ego maniacal but it's not a true to say he's a control freak because control freak means that he actively manages and controls everything that's having around him which is very obviously not the case. What does a control freak need with a legislative branch what does the control freak need with multiple Admirals and Generals who actually run the military what is the control freak need with someone else running the Secret Service what is a control freak need with 20 extra generals to actually run the legions. It's one thing to say he's incompetent it's another to say he's an egomaniac and it's also a different thing to call him a control freak. To call him a control freak completely ignores what the phrase control freak means. He's a tyrant he's a maniac going on and on but there's a lot of things you can say but control freak isn't one of them if he'd been more in control maybe his son's wouldn't have been fucking crazy one and all.
 
I doubt we have yet to see this version of big E's "Unreasonable" side as of yet.
cough Angron still exist.


As I said, Big E is a Macro freak not a Micro freak.
 
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Lord4StarCommand said:
I doubt we have yet to see this version of big E's "Unreasonable" side as of yet.
cough Angron still exist.


As I said, Big E is a Macro freak not a Micro freak.
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There's a lot going on with Angron I will admit but the only time we see anyone fuck with his human Dark Age of Technology torture device that's most of his head it kills him like instantly even though he's already a Demon Primarch. Sanguineous runs up on him and Yanks that shit and he dies instantly for some reason I think there's more to that story of the I can't remember what the name for the lobotomy device that he has on but it seems to suggest it could not be removed rather than no one wanted to remove it.
 
Lord4StarCommand said:
If he really was a control freak he would have stopped Night Lords from making fraying skin factory.
No a more apt description would be "join me and reach the quota and I would turn a blind eye, do not and then I simply conquer you." Mentality.
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Only if he cared about the people they hurt. If he was indifferent to individual human suffering and only cared about humanity as a species and what advanced their corporate chance of survival, he may simply have let the Night Lords get on with it.

He knew that the worlds the Night Lords suppressed would always unquestionably obey any Inperial command that followed, so he may have been thought it was fine. He cared about ends not means. If a world was obedient because of loyalty or because of terror, he don't care, as long as it was obedient.
 
Degorium said:
Okay let's see he does with every other Perpetual did during the long night and by that I mean nothing Humanity dies. It's just the truth. No amount of him being terrible changes this fact. By virtue of the fact the Orcs the Rangdan and chaos fully and firmly exist if he did nothing Humanity fucking dies or it lives in a universe and which it wishes it did. You can call it ego maniacal but it's not a true to say he's a control freak because control freak means that he actively manages and controls everything that's having around him which is very obviously not the case. What does a control freak need with a legislative branch what does the control freak need with multiple Admirals and Generals who actually run the military what is the control freak need with someone else running the Secret Service what is a control freak need with 20 extra generals to actually run the legions. It's one thing to say he's incompetent it's another to say he's an egomaniac and it's also a different thing to call him a control freak. To call him a control freak completely ignores what the phrase control freak means. He's a tyrant he's a maniac going on and on but there's a lot of things you can say but control freak isn't one of them if he'd been more in control maybe his son's wouldn't have been fucking crazy one and all.
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The Emperor being right would not make him not a control freak, it would just make him a control freak who was right. A paranoid person can jump not just when there is nothing in the bushes, but also when there is. It does not change their psychology. He is not a micro-manager that much is true but he did build a system where he would always have control should he choose to exercise it.
 
Votes closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jul 21, 2024 at 4:56 AM, finished with 344 posts and 42 votes.
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DragonParadox said:
The Emperor being right would not make him not a control freak, it would just make him a control freak who was right. A paranoid person can jump not just when there is nothing in the bushes, but also when there is. It does not change their psychology. He is not a micro-manager that much is true but he did build a system where he would always have control should he choose to exercise it.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding what control freak means but control freaks dictate the exact how, when and why you do things. They don't leave massive operational decisions to people. They don't leave General timelines up to people, they especially don't leave reasonings for doing things up to people either. Being a control freak is more than just being the final say in an operation that's being the boss. It's more than not being a micromanager it's determining methodology time span everything about the task that could be completed must be done to their specification.

Being the executive head of a government is kind of the point of starting your own government I would think.
 
Degorium said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what control freak means but control freaks dictate the exact how, when and why you do things. They don't leave massive operational decisions to people. They don't leave General timelines up to people, they especially don't leave reasonings for doing things up to people either. Being a control freak is more than just being the final say in an operation that's being the boss. It's more than not being a micromanager it's determining methodology time span everything about the task that could be completed must be done to their specification.

Being the executive head of a government is kind of the point of starting your own government I would think.
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I think we are using different definitions yeah. I see it as someone who always wants to have control, not necessarily use it
 
DragonParadox said:
I think we are using different definitions yeah. I see it as someone who always wants to have control, not necessarily use it
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Yeah in my mind a control freak is someone who doesn't just have control but exercises that constantly for everything they possibly can do so that's why they get control freak and not Superior or boss or just director, but control freak.
 
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