Or how about not siding with either Navigators and Big E you know? Since we have Exalted craziness and can do technomagic to solve our problems so I really don't see what could we gain from allying with monopolized light house who would try sabotage your attempt in trying to make alternate means of FTL not involving them.
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
There is no third way if we make an alternative to navigators Big E is killing them.
Navigators are obsolete tech anyway, Warp Tech methods had long surpassed them by the mid DoTA.
Navigators will attack and try and destroy you if you can provide a viable alternative to them. It not that the Emperor wants to kill them off.
It that the Emperor will at least make their deaths quick and clean. The normal population will rip the Navigators apart limb from limb slowly if given the chance, people don't like having people with active warp portals around.
Navigators will attack and try and destroy you if you can provide a viable alternative to them. It not that the Emperor wants to kill them off.
It that the Emperor will at least make their deaths quick and clean. The normal population will rip the Navigators apart limb from limb slowly if given the chance, people don't like having people with active warp portals around.
The Emperor would also strongly value more capable Navigators to accelerate the Great Crusade though, and he wouldn't know that the other option was possible.
More importantly, I think, is that the Navigators are themselves a major power block we could ally with and they're likely to be a lot easier to negotiate with than the Emperor, and we can then leverage our influence with them.
From what we can tell the Emperor seems to have seen exterminating non-baseline humans, particularly supernatural mutants like psyker and Navigators, as an end in itself. He wanted to exterminate the Astropaths and Navigators not as part of any grander objective, but because he sincerely objected to their existence.
Suffer not the mutant to live isn't some later perversion of his ideology, it seems to be what the Emperor genuinely believed, at least for those categories of mutant.
I don't believe there's any evidence of this| if it was the case the Navigators wouldn't have survived to the few bad of the DAoT.
As far as I can tell Navigators are a unique, never surpassed capacity. They're not even necessarily human tech, given that they seem to turn into some form of xeno over time and they may be/linked to a joint warp entity of some kind.
I don't think humanity ever got close to engineering artificial warp entities. They never understood the warp well enough for that.
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I really doubt he wants to get rid of psykers of all things on account of he is one yes, but also since someone has to mentain his Webway.
The Emperor being a hypocrite wouldn't be exactly a huge surprise. He could easily believe he was special and different and not like those others.
Also, Magnus was built to maintain the Imperial Webway, consigned to the Golden Throne for eternity,
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
The Navigators are very much a chicken and the egg problem.
They will be killed off if they are rendered obsolete. But they will also not accept any alternative that does not involve them not being in power.
You can try and turn them all human and most will still not accept it or enough will not, wanting to preserve their power.
This is one of those Problems that will not be easy to solve, Just so you know. There is thousands of years of treatment, dogma and beliefs that nothing short of mindcontrol is going to overcome.
They will be killed off if they are rendered obsolete. But they will also not accept any alternative that does not involve them not being in power.
You can try and turn them all human and most will still not accept it or enough will not, wanting to preserve their power.
This is one of those Problems that will not be easy to solve, Just so you know. There is thousands of years of treatment, dogma and beliefs that nothing short of mindcontrol is going to overcome.
- Location
- India
Navigators destroyed dark glass project and in post heresy they destroyed any alternate ftl and any void abacus they can find. Best cull them or reduce their influence before they become a big shot.
I don't care how much of a good boy Magnus was meant to be, that's not how infrastructure works, it's not how it worked for the Eldar who were much better than him at this, they had psichomata before the Fall and did it by hand after.
Navigators actively hunt down, and destroy any tech that even has the potential of replacing them, and even a lot of tech that could help them. Unless they are absolute paranoids that means their is tech that was developed that can replace them in the DAoT. They survived the fall of the DAoT because they are the only method of warp travel that did not require higher order tech to build and maintain. Reminder it was the low tech worlds that survived the war with the Men of Iron, the psychers randomly unleashing daemons when the 4th chaos god was born, and all the other issues.
Frankly the Navigators where designed to be replaced intentionally, as any kids with a non Navigators, are always normal humans. Navigators where a stopgap measure while a new world was being developed, and meant to die off when the industry to make Void Abcus is developed from the STC's
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Realistically we are going to have to kill a lot of navigators, I just don't want it to be all of them with no chance of surrender. I think we can negotiate that.
That's not actually true until the siege destroyed the webway project The Emperor and Malcador could use the Golden Throne without being entombed on it. It was just a device that a powerful psychic could use. No one is meant to just sit on it forever that's was not a thing the fact it is a thing is because there's an active warp Rift that needs to be held shut now.
Akuma: The Devil Eaten
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Akuma: The Lost Souls
Akuma are beings who have foolishly surrendered their entire souls to a dark entity, transforming them into mere puppets for their sinister master. This complete loss of self and autonomy marks the tragic end of their former lives, as they are "reset" upon becoming an Akuma. This reset involves the erasure of their previous attributes and abilities, replaced by new powers granted by their dark master.
Transformation and Abilities
Upon their transformation, Akuma are imbued with the following:
1. The Hungry Dead: The Akuma are no longer Mortals, having been transformed into something......else. They can purchase up to 5 dots of all the Disciplines of the Kuei-jin and Vampires, spending Essence instead, where appropriate.
2. Body Upgrade: This effect ensures that Akuma possess enhanced attributes, making them formidable in combat and other tasks required by their master. All Akuma have (Infernal's Essence rating) Super Human boost to their (Attribute + Ability) rolls.
3. Awakened Essence: Akuma are automatically granted the Awakened Essence rating with a total of 10 Essence, and can spend Infernal's Essence rating worth of Essence per turn.
4. Immunity to Mind control and Shaping attacks: The Akuma are immune to all forms of mind control and shaping attacks other than the ones from their owner. This includes ones caused by their own power.
5. Blood feast: The Akuma gains 1 Resource per 3 hlvls of lethal damage done to an enemy of their owner.
6. Bonus Points: In addition to normal Kuei-jin character creation, the Akuma receive an additional (Essence x 10) BP, which their owner can use to further customize and enhance them. These points allow the dark master to tailor the Akuma's abilities and characteristics to suit specific needs and preferences.
7. Improvements: When recalling an Akuma, the Infernal may freely redistribute the Akuma, taking away old powers and granting new ones. Though Akuma are not valid targets for VEE and cannot yet purchase any Mutations, this can change once Malfeas charms are unlocked. The more charms that are unlocked/Purchased, the more options becomes available to customize an Akuma.
Immortality and Resurrection
Akuma are immortal and cannot be permanently killed without a Spirit-killing charm. Even if their physical form is destroyed, they can be brought back through a sorcerous ritual performed by their owner or loyal cultists. Additionally, if the owner is an Infernal with the appropriate charms, the Akuma can be resurrected within the Infernal's Worldsoul. Each resurrection offers the owner an opportunity to rebuild the Akuma, potentially altering their abilities and appearance as desired.
Absolute Loyalty
One of the most defining traits of Akuma is their unwavering loyalty to their owner. They can never knowingly or willingly betray their master, bound to obey every command both in letter and spirit. This absolute obedience is impervious to all forms of coercion, whether magical or mundane. While their core Intimacies (deep-seated emotional connections) remain unchanged, all other aspects of their personality and desires can be manipulated by their owner.
Existence as an Akuma
The life of an Akuma is one of eternal servitude, marked by a complete loss of autonomy and personal will. They exist solely to fulfill the desires and commands of their dark master, reshaped and repurposed as needed. This existence is a grim reminder of the cost of surrendering one's soul to darkness, a fate from which there is no escape.
In the shadowy corners of the world, tales of Akuma serve as a cautionary reminder of the perils of dabbling with dark forces. Those who encounter these formidable beings face not only their might but also the chilling realization of the true extent of their master's power.
Akuma are beings who have foolishly surrendered their entire souls to a dark entity, transforming them into mere puppets for their sinister master. This complete loss of self and autonomy marks the tragic end of their former lives, as they are "reset" upon becoming an Akuma. This reset involves the erasure of their previous attributes and abilities, replaced by new powers granted by their dark master.
Transformation and Abilities
Upon their transformation, Akuma are imbued with the following:
1. The Hungry Dead: The Akuma are no longer Mortals, having been transformed into something......else. They can purchase up to 5 dots of all the Disciplines of the Kuei-jin and Vampires, spending Essence instead, where appropriate.
2. Body Upgrade: This effect ensures that Akuma possess enhanced attributes, making them formidable in combat and other tasks required by their master. All Akuma have (Infernal's Essence rating) Super Human boost to their (Attribute + Ability) rolls.
3. Awakened Essence: Akuma are automatically granted the Awakened Essence rating with a total of 10 Essence, and can spend Infernal's Essence rating worth of Essence per turn.
4. Immunity to Mind control and Shaping attacks: The Akuma are immune to all forms of mind control and shaping attacks other than the ones from their owner. This includes ones caused by their own power.
5. Blood feast: The Akuma gains 1 Resource per 3 hlvls of lethal damage done to an enemy of their owner.
6. Bonus Points: In addition to normal Kuei-jin character creation, the Akuma receive an additional (Essence x 10) BP, which their owner can use to further customize and enhance them. These points allow the dark master to tailor the Akuma's abilities and characteristics to suit specific needs and preferences.
7. Improvements: When recalling an Akuma, the Infernal may freely redistribute the Akuma, taking away old powers and granting new ones. Though Akuma are not valid targets for VEE and cannot yet purchase any Mutations, this can change once Malfeas charms are unlocked. The more charms that are unlocked/Purchased, the more options becomes available to customize an Akuma.
Immortality and Resurrection
Akuma are immortal and cannot be permanently killed without a Spirit-killing charm. Even if their physical form is destroyed, they can be brought back through a sorcerous ritual performed by their owner or loyal cultists. Additionally, if the owner is an Infernal with the appropriate charms, the Akuma can be resurrected within the Infernal's Worldsoul. Each resurrection offers the owner an opportunity to rebuild the Akuma, potentially altering their abilities and appearance as desired.
Absolute Loyalty
One of the most defining traits of Akuma is their unwavering loyalty to their owner. They can never knowingly or willingly betray their master, bound to obey every command both in letter and spirit. This absolute obedience is impervious to all forms of coercion, whether magical or mundane. While their core Intimacies (deep-seated emotional connections) remain unchanged, all other aspects of their personality and desires can be manipulated by their owner.
Existence as an Akuma
The life of an Akuma is one of eternal servitude, marked by a complete loss of autonomy and personal will. They exist solely to fulfill the desires and commands of their dark master, reshaped and repurposed as needed. This existence is a grim reminder of the cost of surrendering one's soul to darkness, a fate from which there is no escape.
In the shadowy corners of the world, tales of Akuma serve as a cautionary reminder of the perils of dabbling with dark forces. Those who encounter these formidable beings face not only their might but also the chilling realization of the true extent of their master's power.
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Welp we are three charms from SGI, that's 30 XP, we have 11 banked.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan: Don't be an asshole
-[X] Machine Spirits aren't homogenous beings, and like us biological beings, they have different needs depending on the level of their awareness and their personality. Some of them are more similar to pets who have simple and basic desires like regular maintenance and not being abused by it by word or by action; other more aware machine spirits have additional, more complex desires, the respect and appreciation for their work just like we do, companionship and many other which if not causing harm should be accommodated to the best of our ability.
-[X] Machine spirits, like we all, can commit mistakes and crimes, but just like we all deserve to have an accusation against us investigated and justly judged so the punishment fits action, so do they.
-[X] We can't forget that they are also individuals so we should have an open mind when listening to their council, especially when it involves their purpose.
-[X] Machine Spirits aren't homogenous beings, and like us biological beings, they have different needs depending on the level of their awareness and their personality. Some of them are more similar to pets who have simple and basic desires like regular maintenance and not being abused by it by word or by action; other more aware machine spirits have additional, more complex desires, the respect and appreciation for their work just like we do, companionship and many other which if not causing harm should be accommodated to the best of our ability.
-[X] Machine spirits, like we all, can commit mistakes and crimes, but just like we all deserve to have an accusation against us investigated and justly judged so the punishment fits action, so do they.
-[X] We can't forget that they are also individuals so we should have an open mind when listening to their council, especially when it involves their purpose.
The Emperor didn't need psykers for regular repair and construct of Webway tunnels. The Mechanicum established a specialist division called the Adnector Concillium who had tools that could do the job.
I don't believe they were.
Tech that can replace them was not invented in the DAoT. A Void Abacus is not sufficient to replace a Navigator.
What they're afraid of is people getting tech from which people think can replace a Navigator, like Void Abacuses. It can't, but the level of prejudice against them means that people might be willing to try to do so. The fact that they'd realise they'd made a fatal error that would destroy the Imperium after they'd killed the Navigators won't help the dead Navigators. They are actually that, well, not paranoid, because everyone else is in fact out to get them.
If there had been tech that could replace Navigators, the Emperor would have deployed it and exterminated them.
Or we can ally with them and let them continue to exist. That costs us less and doesn't require genocide.
Why though? We aren't the Emperor. We don't hate their existence on principle. The Navigators aren't a monolithic block except in their desire not to all be murdered. They compete for business with each other and are vastly superior to the other forms of FTL travel that anyone save the Eldar and Necrons have.
One of the big advantages of the Imperium is that their FTL is much better than almost everyone else's. It's a big part of why they can sustain a galactic empire.
Just invest our effort in making Navigators better rather than replacing them. We'd likely get a superior result.
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Because the Emperor has much more stuff that we want, starting with secular power, continuing with material knowledge and warp lore. The navigators do not really have stuff we want.
Can I ask where you're getting the idea that the emperor wants to kill them because the most I can find is he doesn't want to rely on them and that might be killing them simply because they're not as sustainable phenomenon genetically. If they don't have their power they will cease to exist their children are sometimes born so mutated they have to kill them because it's crueler to let them live the third eye and a lot of their very obvious mutations are recessive this is before we get to the massive amounts of inbreeding they undertake as a practice because of said mutations and recessive genes. The Navigators just aren't a good solution they are very explicitly only capable of looking into the warp as they are due to their eye and over time they accumulate mutations of both the body and soul for doing so in improving Technologies you would want to not have people essentially drinking Soul radiation on a daily basis.
Before anyone says the emperor is a hypocrite or whatever he does want Humanity to arise as a psychically active species it is a thing that he wants we hear it right out of his mouth in master of mankind it's not a question on whether or not they were psychic or not or not they're mutants or not and making the web way he essentially condemns them to irrelevancy. Their own genetics both due to the fact that they're obviously manufactured and deeply unfortunate for both their physical and spiritual health means they won't last being shoved into a non pivotal role. He doesn't need to kill them a couple of generations without being massively rewarded for being inbred and super wealthy will do it for him. Because unlike other Abhumans Navigators do just give birth to regular humans if they don't also intermarry with Navigator houses because functionally speaking they are just normal humans with an eye directly into the warp that causes them both real and not insignificant pain wether they feel it in the moment or across their Service life.
- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, @Yzarc, it was noted that while Guilliman was fighting the Illyrian rebels, the Emperor had already reached the neighboring planet of Espandor. However, an unexpected warp storm threw the Emperor far off course, so by the time that he did reach Macragge, he found that Guilliman had already been ruling it for 5 years.
In this case, might it be possible that a similar warp storm could arise to delay the Emperor from reaching Lorgar? Would it be feasible to actively create some such obstacle to delay the Emperor, and if so, how much time could be bought?
In this case, might it be possible that a similar warp storm could arise to delay the Emperor from reaching Lorgar? Would it be feasible to actively create some such obstacle to delay the Emperor, and if so, how much time could be bought?
[X] Plan: Don't be an asshole
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
After year 10, I roll if the Emperor arrives or not with each year adding to the dice.
So it is possible he may find you at year 10 or at year 15. Not later than that.
[X] Plan: Don't be an asshole