Dungeons and Dragons Megathread

To be entirely honest, Slaadi never struck me as being great poster boys for Limbo anyway. They're just monstrous frogs in a few different colours with a few neat attacks. That doesn't exactly scream chaotic to me.

Modrons also irritate me because making order 100% associated with anachronistic mechanical stuff isn't ok with me, but they make more sense than slaadi.
 
...Um
Aren't Slaadi usually not Evil?
And capable of pretty good shape-shifting?

They're 'chaotic' in a sense that pretty much just means 'evil'. Most of the time? They are frogs who will eat you, and using them as a xenomorph fits very well with their abilities.

Like shepsquared said, they're the worst planar exemplars by a pretty wide margin. They'd fit better with Pandamonium (plane of mostly-chaotic-kinda-evil madness), probably more as residents rather than the big 'this is the main planar race of it,' and they just don't embody much of chaos.
 
They're 'chaotic' in a sense that pretty much just means 'evil'. Most of the time? They are frogs who will eat you, and using them as a xenomorph fits very well with their abilities.

Like shepsquared said, they're the worst planar exemplars by a pretty wide margin. They'd fit better with Pandamonium (plane of mostly-chaotic-kinda-evil madness), probably more as residents rather than the big 'this is the main planar race of it,' and they just don't embody much of chaos.
At the end of the day I blame space filling. Especially considering how varied demons and devils are compared to most other planar races
 
They're 'chaotic' in a sense that pretty much just means 'evil'. Most of the time? They are frogs who will eat you, and using them as a xenomorph fits very well with their abilities.

Like shepsquared said, they're the worst planar exemplars by a pretty wide margin. They'd fit better with Pandamonium (plane of mostly-chaotic-kinda-evil madness), probably more as residents rather than the big 'this is the main planar race of it,' and they just don't embody much of chaos.
As I recall the old exlanation was that they were corrupted because they ate the dead on the Blood War battlefields a lot. So they lean more towards evil on a "you are what you eat" basis
 
As I recall the old exlanation was that they were corrupted because they ate the dead on the Blood War battlefields a lot. So they lean more towards evil on a "you are what you eat" basis

New to me, but it does sound like the kind of thing someone would put in. Which wouldn't be the first 'and this is why Slaad are not chaotic,' explanation... which still makes them horrible exemplars! They fit at best as in-between types (Pandemonium, as said), but one should never have to explain why the key representatives of a plane don't represent said plane- and they're the only representatives who don't.

Slaad are one of my pet peeves of the Great Wheel, as I'm sure you can tell.
 
New to me, but it does sound like the kind of thing someone would put in. Which wouldn't be the first 'and this is why Slaad are not chaotic,' explanation... which still makes them horrible exemplars! They fit at best as in-between types (Pandemonium, as said), but one should never have to explain why the key representatives of a plane don't represent said plane- and they're the only representatives who don't.

Slaad are one of my pet peeves of the Great Wheel, as I'm sure you can tell.
I'll agree there. They don't really fit. Pathfinder's Proteans are a better fit by far. Oddly even the Hordelings from the grey wastes fit Limbo better. You had to roll on 11 different tables to generate a hordling
 
And, to talk about other planar pet peeves (off the topic of the campaign, so dropping the blocks): Mostly empty planes with little to do (or no detailed ones). Planes with one major landmark/place to g). You're going to Fire? Bet it's the city of brass, something gives me that impression.

Planar Metropolis that are way too small. Sigil is the city at the center of the planes!.. and has a pop of a few million? Really? Why not a bigger number, to reflect it's basically a plane in itself? These places should be big and larger than life!
 
"A few million."

That's a fuckhuge city by any non-industrialized standard :)
 
And, to talk about other planar pet peeves (off the topic of the campaign, so dropping the blocks): Mostly empty planes with little to do (or no detailed ones). Planes with one major landmark/place to g). You're going to Fire? Bet it's the city of brass, something gives me that impression.

Planar Metropolis that are way too small. Sigil is the city at the center of the planes!.. and has a pop of a few million? Really? Why not a bigger number, to reflect it's basically a plane in itself? These places should be big and larger than life!
Sigil was meant to be cramped and claustrophobic. They call it The Cage for a reason. It's also a tiny part of the Outlands, despite also having linked "border towns" Union is more what you're looking for, the Mercane/Arcane capital. The City of Brass is also a planar metropolis. And there's a mindflayer one inside a hollow planet. And Tu'Narath on the astral plane, built on the body of a dead god.
 
Sigil is not "pre-industrial," really, it's a focal point of the entire multiverse and there are races there with innate powers that make industrialism look pathetic.
It's not a focal point though. People from the multiverse don't go there to live or build businesses, it's a glorified truck stop. It's called the city of doors because stuff moves through it, but no to it. You go to Sigil so that you can go somewhere else.
 
It's not a focal point though. People from the multiverse don't go there to live or build businesses, it's a glorified truck stop. It's called the city of doors because stuff moves through it, but no to it. You go to Sigil so that you can go somewhere else.
Except a place where large numbers pass through is ripe for economic exploitation of them. And since the Lady doesn't generally care about stuff, you'd think businesses would spring up around certain portals and stuff, smuggling through planes would be a huge business, and entities that wanted to be safe from gods would have enclaves started there.
 
Except a place where large numbers pass through is ripe for economic exploitation of them. And since the Lady doesn't generally care about stuff, you'd think businesses would spring up around certain portals and stuff, smuggling through planes would be a huge business, and entities that wanted to be safe from gods would have enclaves started there.
Generally doesn't care, but also may randomly kill you in horrible ways. Plus the unending low key gang wars of the factions, Sigil is a giant slum. That's why planar cant is just variant cockney. Union is the city of trade, sigil is the place you go when you don't want the gods to see, which has to remain low key or they'll just find out another way. It's a place of back markets and dirty deals.
 
Generally doesn't care, but also may randomly kill you in horrible ways. Plus the unending low key gang wars of the factions, Sigil is a giant slum. That's why planar cant is just variant cockney. Union is the city of trade, sigil is the place you go when you don't want the gods to see, which has to remain low key or they'll just find out another way. It's a place of back markets and dirty deals.
Both of those things are extremely profitable.
(Also, constant conflict is yet another source of major profit.)

And I don't see how "the Lady of Pain might suddenly decide to kill you" is especially different from "one of the various monsters that can only be handled by extremely high level characters has decided to target your city". The risk of sudden, unavoidable death is kind of omni-present in many fantasy settings, and in real life people undertake dangerous endeavors with no expectation of profit, but people keep doing those things until they start regularly succeeding. There would absolutely be an abundance of people ready to exploit the fuck out of Sigil in some way.
 
Both of those things are extremely profitable.
(Also, constant conflict is yet another source of major profit.)

And I don't see how "the Lady of Pain might suddenly decide to kill you" is especially different from "one of the various monsters that can only be handled by extremely high level characters has decided to target your city". The risk of sudden, unavoidable death is kind of omni-present in many fantasy settings, and in real life people undertake dangerous endeavors with no expectation of profit, but people keep doing those things until they start regularly succeeding. There would absolutely be an abundance of people ready to exploit the fuck out of Sigil in some way.
But how many "exPloiters" get murdered within a few days by the Mercykillers? Or a doomknight on a bender? Or a sensate wondering what it would feel like? Or a mad quasi-god who escaped from Harbinger House? Or just a random demon on the street?

Unlike Sigil, Union has real laws, real enforcement, and safety.
 
But how many "exPloiters" get murdered within a few days by the Mercykillers? Or a doomknight on a bender? Or a sensate wondering what it would feel like? Or a mad quasi-god who escaped from Harbinger House? Or just a random demon on the street?

Unlike Sigil, Union has real laws, real enforcement, and safety.
Not significantly more than the number that those same groups help set up shop in Sigil so they can use their services.
 
Not significantly more than the number that those same groups help set up shop in Sigil so they can use their services.
Yeah, but let's go doylist for a moment. Sigil was meant to have a Mos Eisly/Pirate Tortuga sort of feel. And also, trying to figure out it's population is an exercise in futility, given that any building may be twice as big inside, any door, window, or archway may be a portal to another plane or an extradimensional space. It's the city of doors. It's as populous or as empty as the DM needs it to be at any moment.
 
Yeah, but let's go doylist for a moment. Sigil was meant to have a Mos Eisly/Pirate Tortuga sort of feel. And also, trying to figure out it's population is an exercise in futility, given that any building may be twice as big inside, any door, window, or archway may be a portal to another plane or an extradimensional space. It's the city of doors. It's as populous or as empty as the DM needs it to be at any moment.
That's not mutually exclusive with being a major metropolitan hub of trade
 
I really think they need to bring back longterm status ailments and other effects that last beyond long rests.
I hate status effects. They're obnoxious as both a player and a GM. They add yet another set of modifiers to keep track of when you're already juggling a half dozen NPCs, all wearing off or worsening at different rates. And even if you have a cleric, they're still a huge nuisance to deal with because every single one requires a different spell to deal with. You can spontaneously cast cure spells to restore HP, but you'll still have to fill most of your spell slots with remove disease, neutralize poison, remove curse, break enchantment, remove paralysis, restoration, remove blindness/deafness, stone to flesh, etc. If you didn't prepare the right one or you didn't prepare enough of them for when multiple people get hit or to restore all the ability damage then the adventuring day is done. Or you're burning cash on scrolls, wands and potions. Paizo devs refer to ability-draining monsters like Shadows as "anti-treasure" because they cost the party more than they're worth in loot or XP.

Saga Edition's condition track is about the limit of how much status effect I care to put up with.

Once inside the enemy base stopping for a rest should have the entire place on high alert from then on, making stealth or ambush based tactics nigh impossible.
I agree that it's narratively problematic to have players stopping to rest mid-adventure. Which is all the more reason to not make stopping to rest the central mechanic of your game by making most abilities use-per-day. If you do that, people are going to rest rather than carry on with depleted resources, especially when the resource that usually runs out first is healing, the one that keeps you alive.

Right, because noone ever played a cleric in 3e?
In my experience, people usually played a cleric because "somebody has to" rather than because they actually wanted to. When they were excited about playing a cleric, it was because of things other than healing, like the dwarf cleric casting righteous might to become huge and smash things. Last couple campaigns I was in that had a cleric, it was an NPC.

In most tabletop RPGs, a character or two might have a healing spell or skill, but I can't think of many that devote an entire party role to healing. Lots of the standard D&D tropes, like "constantly taking damage and getting healed," "having one player be a dedicated healer" and "grinding for loot," have been largely abandoned by tabletop gaming in the 21st century and become common tropes of MMORPGs instead.

It's generally supposed to be 4 not 3.
Unless you can't get five people together on a regular basis. You have as many players as you have. Having two PCs has been the norm for me for the last couple years. By using things like Mythic and Path of War to remove the need for spellcasters, a couple of badass martials can often clear multiple dungeons without needing to rest. It's fantastic.

Fuck this mentality, trapfinding should be a feat at best, heving it as class feature is just niche protection.
Only letting rogues find/disarm traps totally undercuts the usefulness of rangers and bards and other classes by not letting them properly fill the "skill-monkey" role.

I think just being trained in the appropriate skills should be all it takes to find and disarm traps. You should not need a feat or class ability to use a skill for it's most common purpose. Having a feat or class ability that enhances trapfinding is fine, but not to even make it possible in the first place. A class should be appealing enough that people want to play it without making it mandatory.
 
Sure, but the thing is that Slaadi are more Chaotic in a similar sense (albeit diametrically opposed) as how Modrons are Lawful - that is to say, their mindsets are utterly alien, and Slaadi are unpredictable.

Nothing says a Slaad could not have simply decided it wanted to go on a spawning binge. Or it could have any other reason , including none at all.
Yes, but they were talking about how their Paladin's Detect Evil ability would be super helpful in derailing the Survival Horror atmosphere of being stalked/hunted by a Slaadi, when Detect Evil only cares about metaphysical Evil.
 
Yeah, but let's go doylist for a moment. Sigil was meant to have a Mos Eisly/Pirate Tortuga sort of feel. And also, trying to figure out it's population is an exercise in futility, given that any building may be twice as big inside, any door, window, or archway may be a portal to another plane or an extradimensional space. It's the city of doors. It's as populous or as empty as the DM needs it to be at any moment.
Pirates are either merchants or they're broke. If a pirate isn't a merchant, they either soon stop being a pirate or start being a merchant, because liquid funds are rare in comparison to goods of various kinds.
The number of people living in Sigil isn't really an indicator of whether or not it's a major transport (and thus trading) hub; airport traffic is only somewhat related to population (Hartsfield-Jackson has a metropolitan population of 5.8 million, the lowest of the top 5 airports). The important factor is the people who pass through, not the people who stay.
 
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